| Jury Free Trials 09:00 - Jul 9 with 1293 views | Dr_Winston |
Currently being advocated as a means of clearing the backlog in the courts system.
I am in favour of this generally to be honest. If I was up in court I would be a lot more comfortable if my fate didn't rest in the hands of some random members of the public who were probably bored out of their skulls after the first hour of proceedings.
Failing that, I would make being a juror an actual profession. Pay people to do it for a living. Give them proper training. They could even specialise in certain areas such as fraud. Would stop a lot of people getting away with it because the jury lack the knowledge to understand a prosecution case. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Jury Free Trials on 09:14 - Jul 9 with 1251 views | onehunglow |
Morning
This is a very interesting point you raise
For years I've watched juries clearly puzzled even traumatised by legal obfuscation presented before them
Barristers are highly trained and perceptive who know the pitch they play on
Juries are ordinary Joe and Jolene's taken away from their day jobs to be presented with arcane minutae on which they have to decide guilt or not , assuming they don't look too middle class, smart,erudite to the defending team
Pressure is on them
It shows
Good stuff Boogs |  |
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| Jury Free Trials on 12:39 - Jul 9 with 1187 views | pencoedjack |
On a similar theme anyone watch 24 hours in Police custody this week?
How could the CP release a bloke with such damning evidence of rape.
His 10 year sentence for 2 filmed rapes of 18 year girls made me want to spew.
If he done that to my daughter he wouldn't of made it to court whilst out on remand.
I agree with jury free trials BTW. |  | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 13:17 - Jul 9 with 1157 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Jury Free Trials on 12:39 - Jul 9 by pencoedjack |
On a similar theme anyone watch 24 hours in Police custody this week?
How could the CP release a bloke with such damning evidence of rape.
His 10 year sentence for 2 filmed rapes of 18 year girls made me want to spew.
If he done that to my daughter he wouldn't of made it to court whilst out on remand.
I agree with jury free trials BTW. |
As I understand it there are already jury free trials f ok r minor crimes. It is. MAGISTRATES court. Looking it up it is for small crimes and preparatory hearings for crown court. Presumably the proportion of cases sorted out will get higher.
These days they will probably arrange a self sentence and let the criminal sentence himself or her self on line for a drop down menu. ( Joke)
[Post edited 9 Jul 13:20]
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| Jury Free Trials on 13:42 - Jul 9 with 1124 views | onehunglow |
| Jury Free Trials on 12:39 - Jul 9 by pencoedjack |
On a similar theme anyone watch 24 hours in Police custody this week?
How could the CP release a bloke with such damning evidence of rape.
His 10 year sentence for 2 filmed rapes of 18 year girls made me want to spew.
If he done that to my daughter he wouldn't of made it to court whilst out on remand.
I agree with jury free trials BTW. |
Me
Tough wasn't it
Wife said he should be chemically castrated
We allow these rats back out on the streets
We risk young female lives on the altar of human rights | |
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| Jury Free Trials on 13:49 - Jul 9 with 1125 views | raynor94 |
| Jury Free Trials on 12:39 - Jul 9 by pencoedjack |
On a similar theme anyone watch 24 hours in Police custody this week?
How could the CP release a bloke with such damning evidence of rape.
His 10 year sentence for 2 filmed rapes of 18 year girls made me want to spew.
If he done that to my daughter he wouldn't of made it to court whilst out on remand.
I agree with jury free trials BTW. |
Yes sickening to watch, but his family were backing him! And you are totally correct about the CP shocking |  |
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| Jury Free Trials on 15:27 - Jul 9 with 1065 views | pencoedjack |
| Jury Free Trials on 13:49 - Jul 9 by raynor94 |
Yes sickening to watch, but his family were backing him! And you are totally correct about the CP shocking |
Indeed.
As OB said we risk young women's life's letting vermin like this back onto the streets. | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 16:50 - Jul 9 with 1014 views | SullutaCreturned |
I'm not in favour of entirely hury free but I can see the merit in having a pool of jurors who are given training. Wouldn't that have to be voluntary though? If they were professional it means being paid and isn't this proposal entirely because there's no money to improve the system?
Maybe they could be rewarded in other ways, boost their personal tax allowance, raise theor state pensions? There'd need to be a lot of them though.
Maybe the law itself needs to be looked at and simplified? It's the minutiae referred to that causes the issues. Clearly guilty people let off on technicalities only to re-offend immediately, it really is sickening. We need to clamp down on technicalities maybe?
There is a swathe of rules and laws in this country (probably the world over) that were brought in so long ago that they need examining, are they still relelvant, are they so outdated as to be awkward and only used to get the guilty off. To be honest there would be so many questions and you'd need the right experts to examine and change them which would take years in itself, at a guess.
It's clear the system needs to change but I'm not qualified to say we can have jury free trials and anyway, I think going down that road could lead to a bad place. | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:11 - Jul 9 with 989 views | onehunglow |
| Jury Free Trials on 16:50 - Jul 9 by SullutaCreturned |
I'm not in favour of entirely hury free but I can see the merit in having a pool of jurors who are given training. Wouldn't that have to be voluntary though? If they were professional it means being paid and isn't this proposal entirely because there's no money to improve the system?
Maybe they could be rewarded in other ways, boost their personal tax allowance, raise theor state pensions? There'd need to be a lot of them though.
Maybe the law itself needs to be looked at and simplified? It's the minutiae referred to that causes the issues. Clearly guilty people let off on technicalities only to re-offend immediately, it really is sickening. We need to clamp down on technicalities maybe?
There is a swathe of rules and laws in this country (probably the world over) that were brought in so long ago that they need examining, are they still relelvant, are they so outdated as to be awkward and only used to get the guilty off. To be honest there would be so many questions and you'd need the right experts to examine and change them which would take years in itself, at a guess.
It's clear the system needs to change but I'm not qualified to say we can have jury free trials and anyway, I think going down that road could lead to a bad place. |
Laws are invariably passed by politicians with legal backgrounds
Hence the arcane definitions of offences
If they were simpler, then barristers wouldn't have to explain, argue, discuss narrative which would give them less chance for sophistry skills | |
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| Jury Free Trials on 17:24 - Jul 9 with 968 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:11 - Jul 9 by onehunglow |
Laws are invariably passed by politicians with legal backgrounds
Hence the arcane definitions of offences
If they were simpler, then barristers wouldn't have to explain, argue, discuss narrative which would give them less chance for sophistry skills |
That is entirely my point, if they are going to put ordinary people in juries then at least give them a chance of making the correct decision. | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:24 - Jul 9 with 967 views | Dr_Winston |
| Jury Free Trials on 16:50 - Jul 9 by SullutaCreturned |
I'm not in favour of entirely hury free but I can see the merit in having a pool of jurors who are given training. Wouldn't that have to be voluntary though? If they were professional it means being paid and isn't this proposal entirely because there's no money to improve the system?
Maybe they could be rewarded in other ways, boost their personal tax allowance, raise theor state pensions? There'd need to be a lot of them though.
Maybe the law itself needs to be looked at and simplified? It's the minutiae referred to that causes the issues. Clearly guilty people let off on technicalities only to re-offend immediately, it really is sickening. We need to clamp down on technicalities maybe?
There is a swathe of rules and laws in this country (probably the world over) that were brought in so long ago that they need examining, are they still relelvant, are they so outdated as to be awkward and only used to get the guilty off. To be honest there would be so many questions and you'd need the right experts to examine and change them which would take years in itself, at a guess.
It's clear the system needs to change but I'm not qualified to say we can have jury free trials and anyway, I think going down that road could lead to a bad place. |
The French system uses juries made up of lay people and legal professionals for the most serious cases only, so a bit of a mix of both. Likewise Spain. Germany does not use juries of normal people at all, nor does Italy or the Netherlands, so the UK is a bit of an outlier in Europe. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Jury Free Trials on 17:47 - Jul 9 with 926 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
One would think minimum educational standards would be a prerequisite. I have no idea how people are selected for jury service. People should at least have some understanding of the details of the case and decent judgement of character. | |
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| Jury Free Trials on 17:52 - Jul 9 with 923 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:47 - Jul 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
One would think minimum educational standards would be a prerequisite. I have no idea how people are selected for jury service. People should at least have some understanding of the details of the case and decent judgement of character. |
Decent judgememt of character., yeah, look at all the people we have elected. What great judgement the masses of this country have shown. | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 18:53 - Jul 9 with 864 views | onehunglow |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:24 - Jul 9 by SullutaCreturned |
That is entirely my point, if they are going to put ordinary people in juries then at least give them a chance of making the correct decision. |
It's S good topic and well done Winston | |
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| Jury Free Trials on 15:22 - Jul 11 with 602 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The whole point of juries though is that the people dishing out the verdict are “outside the system” so to speak. If we started getting rid of juries or filling them up with lawyers and legal experts it leaves it open to massive corruption and handing massive power to judges, which thinking about it is probably what they want. |  |
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| Jury Free Trials on 17:02 - Jul 11 with 571 views | Dr_Winston |
There's lots of interesting data doing the rounds at the minute about how juries can divide themselves along race and cultural grounds regardless of the evidence, which surely can't inspire faith in the system as it stands.
Ditching juries may hand more power to the judiciary, but you would at least hope, if not expect, for a little more impartiality. [Post edited 11 Jul 17:16]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Jury Free Trials on 20:30 - Jul 11 with 521 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:02 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
There's lots of interesting data doing the rounds at the minute about how juries can divide themselves along race and cultural grounds regardless of the evidence, which surely can't inspire faith in the system as it stands.
Ditching juries may hand more power to the judiciary, but you would at least hope, if not expect, for a little more impartiality. [Post edited 11 Jul 17:16]
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Maybe jurors need to be kept apart then, maybe we need them to not know who the other jurors are, what colour they are or anything else about them. The talking can be done online.
Problem there is it'd cost money that the system doesn't have so what is the answer? | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 11:54 - Jul 13 with 381 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:02 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
There's lots of interesting data doing the rounds at the minute about how juries can divide themselves along race and cultural grounds regardless of the evidence, which surely can't inspire faith in the system as it stands.
Ditching juries may hand more power to the judiciary, but you would at least hope, if not expect, for a little more impartiality. [Post edited 11 Jul 17:16]
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OK, after speaking to a lawyer friend, have you any links to this data you say there's lots of?
He's calling you on it because he says there isn't data from jury rooms, the jury room is sacrosanct, whatos said in there is a secret. | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 13:36 - Jul 13 with 322 views | nantywatcher |
I do wonder how vital it is to have a jury limited to exactly 12 members.
Is there any merit in having 7 member or even 5 member juries, if they were trained to the level Dr w suggested? | | | |
| Jury Free Trials on 15:49 - Jul 13 with 257 views | Whiterockin |
| Jury Free Trials on 17:02 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
There's lots of interesting data doing the rounds at the minute about how juries can divide themselves along race and cultural grounds regardless of the evidence, which surely can't inspire faith in the system as it stands.
Ditching juries may hand more power to the judiciary, but you would at least hope, if not expect, for a little more impartiality. [Post edited 11 Jul 17:16]
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There are many with inbuilt prejudicism who appear on a jury, wouldn't professional juries stop this. Yes you could have prejudicism in professional jurors but wouldn't they be weeded out. |  | | |
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