| Will labour ever get back into power? 10:52 - Dec 23 with 19812 views | mrrockin |
I've been following the recent labour news with amusement and a bit of sadness (yes genuinely) - it's painfully obvious that the tories are going to win an increased majority possibly even a landslide in 2020.
By this point the left of labour will have a stranglehold over labour and this will mean there is no hope for the right of labour which closely mirrors the early 80's with the breakaway of the SDP.
Personally I believe the likes of Denis Healey made a mistake and the moderates should have left on mass to join the SDP and leave the socialists to keep the red flag flying high. Maybe as CB has long argued it is time for a voting change.
I was very skeptical about voting change but I personally thought the coalition largely did a superb job and I was disappointed it didn't continue in many ways. I largely support this Gov but I'm more in the centre so I'd prefer the right wingers to be more restrained which the coalition provided.
My point is that under the present system labour will never recover and it might be time for a realignment to take place in British politics.
[Post edited 23 Dec 2015 10:53]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:52 - Dec 23 with 4980 views | Nogginthenog |
Another Tory win would be disastrous, they are already completing the dismantling of the last of our industry and selling everything to the sharks. An absolute travesty on a monumental scale. It will eventually lead to disaster in the form of civil unrest,as, despite Tory belief we are not all stupid. |  | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:53 - Dec 23 with 4980 views | pikeypaul |
I hope not.
The day they elected a terrorist sympathiser as leader and he gets another to be his right hand man was the nail in the coffin.
Although I very much doubt they will be there next election the pictures of them partying with the IRA scum will be everywhere in the run up to it if they are.
They have brought it on themselves and deserve the humiliation the next election will bring. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:55 - Dec 23 with 4969 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:52 - Dec 23 by Nogginthenog |
Another Tory win would be disastrous, they are already completing the dismantling of the last of our industry and selling everything to the sharks. An absolute travesty on a monumental scale. It will eventually lead to disaster in the form of civil unrest,as, despite Tory belief we are not all stupid. |
'they are already completing the dismantling of the last of our industry and selling everything to the sharks.'
Examples would be nice | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:31 - Dec 23 with 4939 views | controversial_jack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:55 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
'they are already completing the dismantling of the last of our industry and selling everything to the sharks.'
Examples would be nice |
Electricity, water, gas, railways health care etc.I'm sure there are more, but can't be bothered to check. Let's hope Corbin sorts out the party, get's rid of the Tory arse kissers and the other cowards that infest the party | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:36 - Dec 23 with 4931 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:31 - Dec 23 by controversial_jack |
Electricity, water, gas, railways health care etc.I'm sure there are more, but can't be bothered to check. Let's hope Corbin sorts out the party, get's rid of the Tory arse kissers and the other cowards that infest the party |
The comment suggests recent history.
Cheapest electricity, gas etc in Europe.
Railways doubled in demand since privatisation.
Health care in England has about 6% in private, outcomes much better than Wales which is pretty much State run.
I love the idea that if we magically Nationalised all of these things that we'd suddenly still be able to afford more and more on health, education etc.
Where the Hell do you get the money from?
But I'll say it again anyway all of this is historical. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:47 - Dec 23 with 4911 views | Lohengrin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:55 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
'they are already completing the dismantling of the last of our industry and selling everything to the sharks.'
Examples would be nice |
The former British Steel Long Products Division, now Tata LPD, is in the process of being acquired by vulpine asset strippers as I type this. [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 6:44]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:53 - Dec 23 with 4904 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:47 - Dec 23 by Lohengrin |
The former British Steel Long Products Division, now Tata LPD, is in the process of being acquired by vulpine asset strippers as I type this. [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 6:44]
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The Steel industry is in a terrible mess, but this has little to do with the present Gov , are we seriously suggesting we should bring back British Steel?
You can forget ploughing more money into public services if that's the case | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:01 - Dec 23 with 4891 views | controversial_jack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:36 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
The comment suggests recent history.
Cheapest electricity, gas etc in Europe.
Railways doubled in demand since privatisation.
Health care in England has about 6% in private, outcomes much better than Wales which is pretty much State run.
I love the idea that if we magically Nationalised all of these things that we'd suddenly still be able to afford more and more on health, education etc.
Where the Hell do you get the money from?
But I'll say it again anyway all of this is historical. |
In 2014, average UK domestic electricity prices, including taxes, were the third highest in the IEA, third highest in the G7, and were 17 per cent above the IEA median.
Prices in the UK excluding taxes were the eighth highest in the IEA, the highest in the G7, and were 38 per cent above the IEA median
Similar for gas prices too
Demand for rail has increased, but so has prices and service has deteriorated, that's why railtrack when privatized went bust | | | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:05 - Dec 23 with 4885 views | Nogginthenog |
I was mainly referring to steel and coal but the others already mentioned are prime examples of Tory sell offs. Mainly to their friends. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:08 - Dec 23 with 4879 views | mrrockin |
I'm intrigued how trains now turning up on time equates to inferior service. British Rail was notorious for strikes, disgusting carriages and trains being late. [Post edited 23 Dec 2015 16:08]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:09 - Dec 23 with 4868 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:05 - Dec 23 by Nogginthenog |
I was mainly referring to steel and coal but the others already mentioned are prime examples of Tory sell offs. Mainly to their friends. |
As I said in a previous post this has nothing to do with the present Gov, it's extremely difficult for them to do anything because of EU State aid rules. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:23 - Dec 23 with 4853 views | mrrockin |
This original topic has got seriously sidetracked btw.
Unless we pull out Europe the socialist nirvana is not going to happen and apparently labour are all for staying in so work that out. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:42 - Dec 23 with 4831 views | controversial_jack |
Railtrack, being a great example of how privatization doesn't work. It messed up the west coast refurbishment and went bust. East coast rail until recently was making a profit of £250 million a year for the country and then it was privatised with that money now leaving the country
Thatcher wanted to free up the Electricity industry and take it out of the hands of the state. It was sold on the pretext of giving a stake to the small investors, so what happened, it ended up being bought by the French state run rail concern.
Privatization has been nothing but a gigantic sell off of British assets to foreigners, and all the revenue has gone overseas | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:45 - Dec 23 with 4827 views | Lohengrin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:53 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
The Steel industry is in a terrible mess, but this has little to do with the present Gov , are we seriously suggesting we should bring back British Steel?
You can forget ploughing more money into public services if that's the case |
Bring back British Steel? Yes, certainly. If it were my decision to make I'd set the wheels in motion tomorrow. Steel is one of the handful of genuine Foundation Industries. Deprived of the capacity to manufacture steel a nation has lost all notion of independence.
For such a fate to befall the cradle of the industrial revolution is unthinkable. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:52 - Dec 23 with 4824 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:42 - Dec 23 by controversial_jack |
Railtrack, being a great example of how privatization doesn't work. It messed up the west coast refurbishment and went bust. East coast rail until recently was making a profit of £250 million a year for the country and then it was privatised with that money now leaving the country
Thatcher wanted to free up the Electricity industry and take it out of the hands of the state. It was sold on the pretext of giving a stake to the small investors, so what happened, it ended up being bought by the French state run rail concern.
Privatization has been nothing but a gigantic sell off of British assets to foreigners, and all the revenue has gone overseas |
I'm 100% supportive of Rail Privatisation, I personally believe that the way it was done was wrong but it's now working relatively well. People want to bring back BR for nothing other than nostalgia not sound reasons. You watch the level of popularity when the RMT decides to close down the track for a couple of days or the trains start turning up 40 mins late for commute, yes it has issues but it's way better otherwise people wouldn't be going back to using it in such high numbers.
In terms of electricity/gas I cannot see the problem again we take it for granted that we always have the lights on now, in the not to distant past people had to have candles at the ready we had a lack of investment. Again a basket case but some people seem to have a love affair with all things State I just don't get it.
Like the NHS I'm open minded to private provision it doesn't scare me in the slightest. It wasn't that long ago BT and BA were owned by the Government now highly successful where as at one time a National embarrassment.
I'd rather be spending money on schools, hospitals, r&D than bailing out failing Nationalised ventures thanks. That's not to say I don't believe the State should have a role, it's the ideological obsession with all things State being right that I can't take. I keep pointing out that outcomes for NHS are better in England and its just ignored, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The same for education. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:54 - Dec 23 with 4822 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:45 - Dec 23 by Lohengrin |
Bring back British Steel? Yes, certainly. If it were my decision to make I'd set the wheels in motion tomorrow. Steel is one of the handful of genuine Foundation Industries. Deprived of the capacity to manufacture steel a nation has lost all notion of independence.
For such a fate to befall the cradle of the industrial revolution is unthinkable. |
Your vision is coherent but it would mean moving to a tariff based system which would damage business in other ways. We don't have the Empire anymore we're competing with the World now. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:06 - Dec 23 with 4809 views | controversial_jack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:52 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
I'm 100% supportive of Rail Privatisation, I personally believe that the way it was done was wrong but it's now working relatively well. People want to bring back BR for nothing other than nostalgia not sound reasons. You watch the level of popularity when the RMT decides to close down the track for a couple of days or the trains start turning up 40 mins late for commute, yes it has issues but it's way better otherwise people wouldn't be going back to using it in such high numbers.
In terms of electricity/gas I cannot see the problem again we take it for granted that we always have the lights on now, in the not to distant past people had to have candles at the ready we had a lack of investment. Again a basket case but some people seem to have a love affair with all things State I just don't get it.
Like the NHS I'm open minded to private provision it doesn't scare me in the slightest. It wasn't that long ago BT and BA were owned by the Government now highly successful where as at one time a National embarrassment.
I'd rather be spending money on schools, hospitals, r&D than bailing out failing Nationalised ventures thanks. That's not to say I don't believe the State should have a role, it's the ideological obsession with all things State being right that I can't take. I keep pointing out that outcomes for NHS are better in England and its just ignored, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The same for education. |
Education and health have been partly privatized and they aren't doing so well | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:13 - Dec 23 with 4802 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:06 - Dec 23 by controversial_jack |
Education and health have been partly privatized and they aren't doing so well |
As I keep saying NOT IN THIS COUNTRY. In England they have had blairite reforms and present Gov reforms standards have been improving. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:15 - Dec 23 with 4800 views | Lohengrin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:54 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
Your vision is coherent but it would mean moving to a tariff based system which would damage business in other ways. We don't have the Empire anymore we're competing with the World now. |
I don't want us to compete with the World. I've always believed that the advent of the Global Economy would be ruinous to European industry. I think I've been consistent on here in advocating a disengagement from the whole sorry affair. That may well necessitate adopting a gradualist policy but that's the direction I regard as being vital to our future well being.
At heart you know I've always been a European nationalist. The narrow vision of a little Britain has never appealed to me, I've never seen it as being remotely viable or desirable. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:17 - Dec 23 with 4797 views | controversial_jack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:13 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
As I keep saying NOT IN THIS COUNTRY. In England they have had blairite reforms and present Gov reforms standards have been improving. |
Compared to Wales, yes, but not to other European countries who still have totally stae run systems, like Finland for example | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:18 - Dec 23 with 4790 views | dgt73 |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:15 - Dec 23 by Lohengrin |
I don't want us to compete with the World. I've always believed that the advent of the Global Economy would be ruinous to European industry. I think I've been consistent on here in advocating a disengagement from the whole sorry affair. That may well necessitate adopting a gradualist policy but that's the direction I regard as being vital to our future well being.
At heart you know I've always been a European nationalist. The narrow vision of a little Britain has never appealed to me, I've never seen it as being remotely viable or desirable. |
European nationalist ? Where does the European boarders end ?
So you also support the EU ? |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:19 - Dec 23 with 4788 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:17 - Dec 23 by controversial_jack |
Compared to Wales, yes, but not to other European countries who still have totally stae run systems, like Finland for example |
Finland is not an equatable example they have a small homogeneous population.
Just to clarify you've just agreed with what I've said about improving standards in England, they're not afraid of reform there unlike here where we're obsessed with 'values' whatever that means. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:21 - Dec 23 with 4784 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:15 - Dec 23 by Lohengrin |
I don't want us to compete with the World. I've always believed that the advent of the Global Economy would be ruinous to European industry. I think I've been consistent on here in advocating a disengagement from the whole sorry affair. That may well necessitate adopting a gradualist policy but that's the direction I regard as being vital to our future well being.
At heart you know I've always been a European nationalist. The narrow vision of a little Britain has never appealed to me, I've never seen it as being remotely viable or desirable. |
As I've said I think your vision is coherent whether you agree or disagree with it. But it would take an absolute shift in thinking right across the Continent.
I'm arguing more from the prospective of making the most of Globalisation, I don't necessarily agree with it but we are where we are. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:24 - Dec 23 with 4778 views | dgt73 |
Globalisation lol how the fook can we compete with China/ India who pay the equivalent of a bowl of rice a day. [Post edited 23 Dec 2015 17:25]
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