| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic 12:17 - Jan 4 with 54201 views | exiledclaseboy |
Apparently. Cue a few days of outraged reaction until Oldham change their mind. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:38 - Jan 6 with 1740 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:31 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
......And then he asked if he could join in to which she allegedly said "yeah". What confused matters is Ched said he asked her if he could join in, and Blackmore said he asked her. |
So Ched's word is automatically the truth then, the victim must be a liar?
The Evans family claimed the victim was a money-grabber. A claim backed by the lack of interviews the victim has given over the years. Or not.
Evans also stated this :-
"When interviewed by the Police following his arrest, Ched had stated that, as a well known footballer, if he wanted to have sex with a girl, there were plenty of opportunities for him to do so. This comment was not a boastful claim but merely an observation on the society we live in. Anyone who knows Ched would confirm that he is neither arrogant nor boastful."
So when your defence is summed up as "I didn't rape her, I could have anyone" it's not really convincing to a jury.
Personally, his girlfriend has mug written all over her. Even if he hadn't raped her, she's happy to have put up with casual sex with a stranger; as it stands she lurves a rapist. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:39 - Jan 6 with 1732 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:29 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
no - under Ched Evans' own testimony that's not the same thing.
He admits he let himself into the room having never met her previously.
You know that it was his own testimony that convicted him don't you? He described events that are legally rape. She didn't testify. He's just confused as to what constitutes rape under the law - as are you it seems. |
Wrong again.
The conviction was based on the jury's opinion that even if she had said yes on the night, she was too drunk to consent.
A far-reaching and truly frightening precedent, supported by such flimsy evidence. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:40 - Jan 6 with 1727 views | ItchySphincter |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:15 - Jan 6 by JBT95 |
Never heard of a miscarriage of justice? |
I have. Do you think this is one of them? |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:40 - Jan 6 with 1727 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:31 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
......And then he asked if he could join in to which she allegedly said "yeah". What confused matters is Ched said he asked her if he could join in, and Blackmore said he asked her. |
so what confused matters is that they told different stories you mean? | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:43 - Jan 6 with 1709 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:38 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
So Ched's word is automatically the truth then, the victim must be a liar?
The Evans family claimed the victim was a money-grabber. A claim backed by the lack of interviews the victim has given over the years. Or not.
Evans also stated this :-
"When interviewed by the Police following his arrest, Ched had stated that, as a well known footballer, if he wanted to have sex with a girl, there were plenty of opportunities for him to do so. This comment was not a boastful claim but merely an observation on the society we live in. Anyone who knows Ched would confirm that he is neither arrogant nor boastful."
So when your defence is summed up as "I didn't rape her, I could have anyone" it's not really convincing to a jury.
Personally, his girlfriend has mug written all over her. Even if he hadn't raped her, she's happy to have put up with casual sex with a stranger; as it stands she lurves a rapist. |
No, on the contrary.
Nobody was in that room other than those 3 - to take anybodies word a d use it as a fact would be foolish. That is my whole point. There was a hotel room, three drunk people, one including a woman so drunk she cannot even remember how she got there (but did remember consenting to one of them) and .... a rape conviction.
I have absolutely no idea why you keep referring to the Evans family. I do not know them or their views. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:43 - Jan 6 with 1707 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:38 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
I haven't said anything other than the bit that is the worst is the bit that you are deeming to be the least severe.
You also haven't asked me what word I would find acceptable - you are mistaking me for others. However, I find the word 'mild' to be inappropriate to describe any form of rape if you are asking me that question for the first time now.
In the same way as you would, I imagine, find any form of someone raping you to be 'mild'. There are various degrees of severity for all sorts of things - it doesn't mean that the starting point is always 'mild'. Cancer for example - I would imagine that someone with a less aggressive form of cancer would be unlikely to describe their disease as 'mild'. Similarly with paralysis - again, there are varying degrees, none of which would be accurately described as 'mild'. Sometimes you need to add some common sense to the interpretation of all those books you know... |
What you and others are doing is objecting to the use of a factual description on spurious grounds, but refusing to offer up an alternative that you find palatable.
It is a transparently obvious device to wiggle out of the argument, that has the effect denying the existence of an abstract concept.
You are a denier of reality; it's not the first time, Lisa. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:44 - Jan 6 with 1710 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:40 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
so what confused matters is that they told different stories you mean? |
Indeed Lisa.
If Ched claims he asked the girl for consent but Clayton then says he was the one who asked if Ched could join in, guess what? You've an instant inconsistency.
One of those at best has memory problems, at worst is a liar. If you've no confidence as a result that both defendants have a consistent recollection of events, then how can a jury have confidence that the basic assertion - the victim gave consent that Evans could join in - is correct? | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:44 - Jan 6 with 1708 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:39 - Jan 6 by Shaky |
Wrong again.
The conviction was based on the jury's opinion that even if she had said yes on the night, she was too drunk to consent.
A far-reaching and truly frightening precedent, supported by such flimsy evidence. |
it was his testimony that they listened to to form their opinion. She said all along she had no idea what happened.
The only reason that the prosecution was made was because of what he (and his mate) said on investigation of the bag loss and drink spiked claims - she didn't accuse him of rape in the first place (which rather undermines the whole 'she's out for money' bit as well really). | | | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:46 - Jan 6 with 1696 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:40 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
so what confused matters is that they told different stories you mean? |
Yes. They were drunk.
A bit like the girl not even remembering how she got there. Yet Cheds version of events had to be 20:20 or he was guilty?
The jury according to Shaky convicted him on the basis that she was too drunk too actually mean yes, if thats the case then lock up hundreds of men up and down Britain every weekend who go home with women all over them that can barely stand.
If you asked me who said what on a night out a week later I probably would have a different version to my mate too [Post edited 6 Jan 2015 21:47]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:48 - Jan 6 with 1690 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:43 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
No, on the contrary.
Nobody was in that room other than those 3 - to take anybodies word a d use it as a fact would be foolish. That is my whole point. There was a hotel room, three drunk people, one including a woman so drunk she cannot even remember how she got there (but did remember consenting to one of them) and .... a rape conviction.
I have absolutely no idea why you keep referring to the Evans family. I do not know them or their views. |
she didn't remember to consenting to either of them.
She said throughout that she couldn't remember anything. So your 'facts' seem to again be wrong. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:52 - Jan 6 with 1675 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:48 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
she didn't remember to consenting to either of them.
She said throughout that she couldn't remember anything. So your 'facts' seem to again be wrong. |
Yet only one convicted of rape?
[Post edited 6 Jan 2015 21:57]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:56 - Jan 6 with 1663 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:52 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
Yet only one convicted of rape?
[Post edited 6 Jan 2015 21:57]
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read the transcript of why that is the case. She didn't remember consenting or otherwise - she didn't accuse either man of rape. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:57 - Jan 6 with 1656 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:52 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
Yet only one convicted of rape?
[Post edited 6 Jan 2015 21:57]
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Presumably that would be due to the fact Donaldson and Evans gave conflicting stories.
As Donaldson and the girl were alone at the time consent from him would be needed, that would almost certainly be the difference. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:57 - Jan 6 with 1646 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:56 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
read the transcript of why that is the case. She didn't remember consenting or otherwise - she didn't accuse either man of rape. |
Let me get this straight....
She says she cant remember whether she did consent or not (even though went back to a hotel room after a night out with a bloke) - both say she did consent. Yet Ched is convicted because the jury think that even if she did agree... then she was too drunk to truly consent?
That is terrifying for every single bloke in the Uk | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:59 - Jan 6 with 1640 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:57 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
Presumably that would be due to the fact Donaldson and Evans gave conflicting stories.
As Donaldson and the girl were alone at the time consent from him would be needed, that would almost certainly be the difference. |
So two blokes drunk and cant remember which one actually was the one to ask, but maintain the question was asked and the reply was consistent, she doesn't deny it - this means a 5 year prison sentence?
F*ck me. [Post edited 6 Jan 2015 21:59]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:59 - Jan 6 with 1643 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:57 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
Let me get this straight....
She says she cant remember whether she did consent or not (even though went back to a hotel room after a night out with a bloke) - both say she did consent. Yet Ched is convicted because the jury think that even if she did agree... then she was too drunk to truly consent?
That is terrifying for every single bloke in the Uk |
And again; Donaldson and Evans gave different stories.
If at least one of them are thus giving false evidence, could the claims consent was given to Evans be considered as a fact?
Answer is no. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:01 - Jan 6 with 1630 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:59 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
And again; Donaldson and Evans gave different stories.
If at least one of them are thus giving false evidence, could the claims consent was given to Evans be considered as a fact?
Answer is no. |
Hardly a different story. Same story but one thinks he said it, the other thinks he said it. There is no alternate story as the girl seemingly remembers nothing.
So there were 3 in the room, nobody has accused anybody of rape. [Post edited 6 Jan 2015 22:01]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:09 - Jan 6 with 1611 views | ItchySphincter |
Maybe she raped them eh? Eh? Thought of that? | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:11 - Jan 6 with 1607 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:01 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
Hardly a different story. Same story but one thinks he said it, the other thinks he said it. There is no alternate story as the girl seemingly remembers nothing.
So there were 3 in the room, nobody has accused anybody of rape. [Post edited 6 Jan 2015 22:01]
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Well, yes, the stories are materially different.
Evans claims he asked for consent; Donaldson say he asked on Ched's behalf. The fact both versions differ in who did the asking could lead the jury to believe that both were making the claim up to prevent a conviction against Ched.
In Donaldson's case, there was no such distinction - his word only. Girl couldn't remember. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:23 - Jan 6 with 1587 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:11 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
Well, yes, the stories are materially different.
Evans claims he asked for consent; Donaldson say he asked on Ched's behalf. The fact both versions differ in who did the asking could lead the jury to believe that both were making the claim up to prevent a conviction against Ched.
In Donaldson's case, there was no such distinction - his word only. Girl couldn't remember. |
No they aren't as both give the outcome that she had consented. There is no other version as she doesn't know if she did or not. In the midst of a drunken night out who said what is often blurred, this is not evidence enough to convict a man for 5 years on an allegation nobody has even accused him of.
This is why this case os not like a typical rape case. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:29 - Jan 6 with 1579 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 22:23 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
No they aren't as both give the outcome that she had consented. There is no other version as she doesn't know if she did or not. In the midst of a drunken night out who said what is often blurred, this is not evidence enough to convict a man for 5 years on an allegation nobody has even accused him of.
This is why this case os not like a typical rape case. |
Define a "typical rape case". All cases are different.
You're missing the point - they both claimed Evans received consent. They differ on who asked for that consent. If they cannot agree on who asked then how can the overall statements be considered to be accurate? You can't separate parts A and B in that case. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 23:41 - Jan 6 with 1525 views | Darran |
Tomorrows Independeng.
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 23:53 - Jan 6 with 1503 views | Darran |
Shagging around behind his daughters back too,only mildly though. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 00:04 - Jan 7 with 1497 views | ItchySphincter |
What an odd bunch. | |
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