| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:58 - Feb 7 with 2098 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:15 - Feb 7 by BrianMcCarthy |
Lads, save your breath...
There is absolutely no way that an event as big as England leaving the EU will be left to you to decide. |
The Irish are sweating a bit though arn't they. |  | |  |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 23:05 - Feb 7 with 2094 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:58 - Feb 7 by TheBlob |
See page 1.
Didn't Ireland have a referendum fairly recently that was declared void because the electorate didn't fully understand the terms put to them(sic)? |
Exactly. Twice!
We rejected both the Nice and Lisbon treaties and had the same treaties put to us again (with meaningless side-guarantees promised to us) until we said yes.
England, being much bigger, is even more important to the ruling classes all over Europe. you will not be allowed leave. They'll allow you some moral victories but you're going nowhere. Any appearance of democracy from here on here will be a mirage. |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 23:06 - Feb 7 with 2088 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:58 - Feb 7 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The Irish are sweating a bit though arn't they. |
Definitely not, Bazza. See reply above. We know better to our cost. | |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 23:06 - Feb 7 with 2086 views | TheBlob |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:58 - Feb 7 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The Irish are sweating a bit though arn't they. |
Not as much as the Welsh.We pull out and bang goes their farming subsidies.
They do love a subsidy here,it's probably the first English word they learn at their mother's knee.They should have an Angel Of The North type statue to greet people coming across the Severn Bridge - a giant rotating hand signifying we'll take money from anywhere.They're talking about their own currency now - probably call it the Sponge,ten Sponges to the English Pound. |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 23:36 - Feb 7 with 2089 views | QPRDave |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:15 - Feb 7 by BrianMcCarthy |
Lads, save your breath...
There is absolutely no way that an event as big as England leaving the EU will be left to you to decide. |
Sadly bang on Brian |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 00:07 - Feb 8 with 2063 views | jc_hoops |
sadly, one of the major factors for me personally leaving the UK was the EU. I believed at the time, and still do, it's all a bloody conspiracy with to many people with lots of money both in the UK and Europe, that seem to be making even more money from this "sham" of a marriage. As someone else just said, our "Lords and masters" won't allow the UK to leave, like the Irish vote on the Euro, they will make up a reason to have another vote if the vote goes against what they want. The EU will be a cause for serious internal trouble in Europe in the next few years, incorrect fiscal planning (the Euro), open borders, MMP's out of touch with the electorate but the worst part is I don't believe a majority of European citizens are sold with the EU. Last EU elections had about a 50% turn out rate |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:51 - Feb 8 with 1965 views | R_from_afar |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 18:25 - Feb 5 by distortR |
I particularly enjoy the £130m cost (2014 figure) of the eu parliment decamping from brussels to strasburg once a month. |
I am firmly in the "stay in the EU" camp but I am totally with you on this, it's an unacceptable waste of money.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 13:10 - Feb 8 with 1947 views | R_from_afar |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 22:47 - Feb 6 by derbyhoop |
Those who want to leave the EU have 4 main reasons.
1. Last year we paid £11.3 Bn to the EU. If we come out we won’t have to pay anything
2. We will regain control of our borders.
3. We won’t be subject to EU laws
4. We will be able to trade with whomever we like.
None of those reasons really stand up to careful scrutiny.
1. It’s true that we won’t have to pay money to the EU budget. However, the figure breaks down to £34 per person per year (less than the cost of a subscription to QPR Player). In exchange, according to CBI estimates we gain nearly £3,000 per person per year. So is it worth saving £34 to lose out on £3,000?
2. Last year there were around 600,000 immigrants. The net figure was nearer to 340,000 due to the number of people leaving. Of the 600,000 just over half came from the EU. But, if we are serious about controlling immigration, why are we letting in so many from outside the EU. Is it the Indian IT professionals, the Phillipino nurses or the foreign students, whose fees are essential if our Universities are to prosper. And what about the 1.5m UK nationals living and working in the EU?
3. We hear moans about EU laws impinging on our rights. Which laws are they? The ones that stop employers forcing workers to work more than a 48 hour working week, the ones that provide improved maternity and paternity leave, the ones that provide a LEGAL entitlement to 4 weeks paid holiday? What about the EU laws that have slashed mobile data roaming charges? Or maybe it’s Human Rights. Who needs human rights anyway?
4. But the biggest myth is around trade. EU critics say we cannot get our way when 27 other countries vote against us. Well, if we cannot get anywhere when we are members of the club, are they going to roll over when we’re on the outside trying to get in? It’s illogical and like ending a long term relationship with all the hurt and pain that would cause, because you want to get back to how things were when you first got to know each other. I’m sure the EU countries will be happy to sell to the UK. It will be a different matter when we want them to buy from us.
And, don’t forget , around 50% of our exports go the EU, supporting 3-4m jobs.
Major companies will look at the spread of their business and will certainly consider the option of relocating to a location inside the EU. And the evidence from the Scottish referendum (RBS, Standard Life were looking at moving their Head Offices away from Edinburgh) supports that. They may decide to stay in the UK but the uncertainty will not be good for the UK economy.
And uncertainty is what financial markets hate most. Don’t be surprised to see a significant fall in both GDP (I’ve seen several surveys predicting falls between 0.5 and 9.8%) and the FTSE markets, affecting your pension investments. A financial crisis will affect the UK and the remaining members of the EU. That would be another reason why they may be reluctant to strike trade agreements with us. |
Absolutely spot on. Great points.
The current government has deliberately hushed up the findings of its own report into the pluses and minuses of staying in the EU:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/18/tories-covered-up-eu-evidence-conse
Stand-out quote:
Japanese government: “More than 1,300 Japanese companies have invested in the UK, as part of the single market of the EU, and have created 130,000 jobs, more than anywhere else in Europe.”
Our environment has benefited massively from membership of the EU so I shudder to think what will happen if we exit the EU:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/brexit-would-return-britain-t
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:01 - Feb 8 with 1880 views | Metallica_Hoop |
Thanks that was a great read. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:19 - Feb 8 with 1864 views | pomanjou |
EXCELLENT. Confirms my own fundementalist brexit views with solid reasoning. |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:42 - Feb 8 with 1840 views | Discodroids |
Not to sure how much longer I can stomach listening to Vichy Cameron and his Gimp underlings on a daily basis , informing me of the wonders of remaining in Europe without hurling up my spleen. I dont think i have ever seen such cowardice and self serving manoeuvring in my lifetime by Certain M.P's who are elected by the public, to serve the pubic, and not safeguard their careers and pensions.
I think there is at least another two/three weeks until the so called reforms Vichy Dave announced last week ( A complete and Total abdication of the demands set out in the G.E.conservative manifesto) are put before The EU. for debate.
The chances of vichy Dave getting ALL EU member states to agree and thus grant us a temporary brake on migrant benefits , IF we can prove to them we are overwhelmed are non existent .He's been caught on camera with Hague and Osborne laughing at this very suggestion.I cant even go there with his child benefit negotiation, because judging by the result, he didnt either.
This brake only effects one in ten migrants in any case, its a total side show that will do nothing to stop People wanting to come to the UK.
The EU president Marutin Schulz has already stated these pathetic reforms have very little chance of being passed and will be watered down even further. In addition English Euro sceptic MP's have been gagged by vichy Dave , until his so called reforms have been passed by the E.U., giving Vichy Dave a clear unopposed run for the next 3 weeks to spout outrageous lies as he is again doing today.
Today I now have to suffer Vichy Dave's utterly ridiculous comments about the "jungle" moving to Dover/Folkestone if we leave the E.U. ..This from a prime minister who is more likely to have mentioned the word 'c unt', than 'Calais' in public in the last 12 months, now decides to threaten us with the very thing that he has has been so loathe to talk about with such totality.
They're just lying to our faces. As the polls and the mood changes I note that it used to be "we can't control our borders if we stay in the EU". Now all of a sudden it's "We can't control our borders if we leave the EU". It really is an insult.
A French interior minister rubbished the idea promoted by Cameron today that France might tear up their agreement with Britain on border controls if we left the EU. Bernard Cazeneuve said:
“Calling for the border with the English to be opened is not a responsible solution. It would send a signal to people smugglers and would lead migrants to flow to Calais in far greater numbers. A humanitarian disaster would ensue. It is a foolhardy path, and one the government will not pursue. On the contrary, we’re going to make the border even more watertight to dissuade smugglers and migrants, respect international rules and reduce the pressure on Calais.” "
"personally i dont feel Britain needs the European union"
@European commission President Jean claude Juncker.
14/10/15 [Post edited 8 Feb 2016 17:07]
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| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:50 - Feb 8 with 1827 views | Discodroids |
I wish Davis would head up the Leave campaign or Digby Jones. As much as i admire Nigel Farage (for without him this forthcoming referendum would not be taking place), he is far too much of a devisive figure . The leave campaign needs to cut out the infighting and get on with the job at hand, leaving their personal politics aside.
Im in no doubt the Referendum will be held before the summer months of july and august , Before The biblical movement of peoples begins as it did last year. [Post edited 8 Feb 2016 14:53]
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| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 15:50 - Feb 8 with 1765 views | Aitch |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:50 - Feb 8 by Discodroids |
I wish Davis would head up the Leave campaign or Digby Jones. As much as i admire Nigel Farage (for without him this forthcoming referendum would not be taking place), he is far too much of a devisive figure . The leave campaign needs to cut out the infighting and get on with the job at hand, leaving their personal politics aside.
Im in no doubt the Referendum will be held before the summer months of july and august , Before The biblical movement of peoples begins as it did last year. [Post edited 8 Feb 2016 14:53]
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I agree with you about Farage and Davies. I'd like to see Dan Hannan involved more. Someone who usually manages to avoid the personal snipes and speaks a lot of sense imo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think |  |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 15:58 - Feb 8 with 1753 views | TheBlob |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:50 - Feb 8 by Discodroids |
I wish Davis would head up the Leave campaign or Digby Jones. As much as i admire Nigel Farage (for without him this forthcoming referendum would not be taking place), he is far too much of a devisive figure . The leave campaign needs to cut out the infighting and get on with the job at hand, leaving their personal politics aside.
Im in no doubt the Referendum will be held before the summer months of july and august , Before The biblical movement of peoples begins as it did last year. [Post edited 8 Feb 2016 14:53]
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The sooner the better before the financial shit hits the fan.
Mrs T's former adviser recently proclaimed the old girl would have voted to stay in.Of course she would - it's a vast gravy train that no self serving politician could possibly resist,and unfortunately won't.It's just the manner of the fix which is intriguing.This is going to be a very interesting year. | |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 18:59 - Feb 8 with 1673 views | derbyhoop |
One of the biggest investments from a Japanese company is the Toyota manufacturing plant - about 2 miles from where I live. 70-80% of the output of that factory is exports to the EU.
There are all sorts of reasons why such a company would invest in the UK, not just location within the EU. But, they also have factories in Portugal, France, Poland and the Czech Republic. If the UK votes to leave the EU that would be one new factor governing future investment plans. It is possible that, when they launch a new model, that investment could go to one of their other plants.
The claim that "The UK would continue to access the European markets so being out of the EU won't make any difference." is not a statement of fact but a judgement call. My judgement, diametrically opposite to yours, is that the UK's access to European markets is likely to be seriously compromised. I've seen various surveys (educated guesses?) that suggest, as a minimum, GDP would fall by 0.5%
We will have 2 years from an "out" vote to put all the trade agreements in place. There is a precedent. Greenland, which joined the EU in the 1970s voted to leave in 1982. As a country of 56,000 people with 1 major industry, fishing, it took 3 years, with considerable Danish help, to conclude an agreement.
if we vote to leave, fthe sake of the UK economy, I hope that your judgement is more accurate than mine but I'm far from convinced that it is worth the risk.
And that isn't saying that the EU is faultless, far from it. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 19:19 - Feb 8 with 1657 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:50 - Feb 8 by Discodroids |
I wish Davis would head up the Leave campaign or Digby Jones. As much as i admire Nigel Farage (for without him this forthcoming referendum would not be taking place), he is far too much of a devisive figure . The leave campaign needs to cut out the infighting and get on with the job at hand, leaving their personal politics aside.
Im in no doubt the Referendum will be held before the summer months of july and august , Before The biblical movement of peoples begins as it did last year. [Post edited 8 Feb 2016 14:53]
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I'd like to see Fraser Digby involved. | | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 19:22 - Feb 8 with 1654 views | RSoul |
Thatcher would have taken orders from Merkel etc?? Don't think so |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 19:35 - Feb 8 with 1640 views | jonno |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 14:42 - Feb 8 by Discodroids |
Not to sure how much longer I can stomach listening to Vichy Cameron and his Gimp underlings on a daily basis , informing me of the wonders of remaining in Europe without hurling up my spleen. I dont think i have ever seen such cowardice and self serving manoeuvring in my lifetime by Certain M.P's who are elected by the public, to serve the pubic, and not safeguard their careers and pensions.
I think there is at least another two/three weeks until the so called reforms Vichy Dave announced last week ( A complete and Total abdication of the demands set out in the G.E.conservative manifesto) are put before The EU. for debate.
The chances of vichy Dave getting ALL EU member states to agree and thus grant us a temporary brake on migrant benefits , IF we can prove to them we are overwhelmed are non existent .He's been caught on camera with Hague and Osborne laughing at this very suggestion.I cant even go there with his child benefit negotiation, because judging by the result, he didnt either.
This brake only effects one in ten migrants in any case, its a total side show that will do nothing to stop People wanting to come to the UK.
The EU president Marutin Schulz has already stated these pathetic reforms have very little chance of being passed and will be watered down even further. In addition English Euro sceptic MP's have been gagged by vichy Dave , until his so called reforms have been passed by the E.U., giving Vichy Dave a clear unopposed run for the next 3 weeks to spout outrageous lies as he is again doing today.
Today I now have to suffer Vichy Dave's utterly ridiculous comments about the "jungle" moving to Dover/Folkestone if we leave the E.U. ..This from a prime minister who is more likely to have mentioned the word 'c unt', than 'Calais' in public in the last 12 months, now decides to threaten us with the very thing that he has has been so loathe to talk about with such totality.
They're just lying to our faces. As the polls and the mood changes I note that it used to be "we can't control our borders if we stay in the EU". Now all of a sudden it's "We can't control our borders if we leave the EU". It really is an insult.
A French interior minister rubbished the idea promoted by Cameron today that France might tear up their agreement with Britain on border controls if we left the EU. Bernard Cazeneuve said:
“Calling for the border with the English to be opened is not a responsible solution. It would send a signal to people smugglers and would lead migrants to flow to Calais in far greater numbers. A humanitarian disaster would ensue. It is a foolhardy path, and one the government will not pursue. On the contrary, we’re going to make the border even more watertight to dissuade smugglers and migrants, respect international rules and reduce the pressure on Calais.” "
"personally i dont feel Britain needs the European union"
@European commission President Jean claude Juncker.
14/10/15 [Post edited 8 Feb 2016 17:07]
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Cameron talks a good game but when it comes to the crunch he never delivers. Coming back from the EU "negotiations" was reminiscent of Neville Chamberlain returning from Munich in 1938, waving his piece of paper. "Peace In Our Time". |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 19:37 - Feb 8 with 1635 views | johncharles |
Do you think we should adopt the American gun laws, arm the populace and drive the immigrants back into the sea ? |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:06 - Feb 9 with 2078 views | THEBUSH |
Good luck with that, I'd prefer to stay and work in Europe, India and China ain't in my plans  |  | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:15 - Feb 9 with 2060 views | THEBUSH |
There's a lot I don't know, like you  | | | |
| why we should leave the EU part 1 on 12:55 - Feb 9 with 2019 views | R_from_afar |
I don't have access to the report itself so I can't give you much more background on why the Japanese have been investing in the UK but the Guardian article does also contain this relevant section:
"The Japanese government told the review that 1,300 Japanese firms had invested in the UK because it was member of the EU single market. It added: “This fact demonstrates that the advantage of the UK as a gateway to the European market has attracted Japanese investment. The government of Japan expects the UK to maintain this favourable role.”"
As for the UK continuing to have access to European markets, well, I am sure that is true but we will still be subject to the same standards (e.g. for safety, emissions etc), only we will no longer be able to influence them.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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