| Immigration Costs an example 12:03 - May 2 with 2252 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Yesterday about 900 people crossed the channel, the Government is now paying an average of £41,000 a year to house an illegal migrant.
In housing costs alone that will cost us nearly £37 Million a year just for one days crossings, at 900 a day the bill is £13.5 Billion.
Those who say illegal migration is not a problem are at best misled.
[Post edited 2 May 12:04]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 12:29 - May 2 with 1327 views | raynor94 |
I see the Dragon Hotel once the jewel in the crown of the town centre, is now being used for the homeless.
The owners of establishments like this can only see £ signs |  |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 13:29 - May 2 with 1294 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Immigration Costs an example on 12:29 - May 2 by raynor94 |
I see the Dragon Hotel once the jewel in the crown of the town centre, is now being used for the homeless.
The owners of establishments like this can only see £ signs |
We've not enough housing , so we let in a load of people, pay through our noses to house them whilst people who have grown up here and pay taxes can't get decent accommodation. | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 18:03 - May 2 with 1248 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 12:29 - May 2 by raynor94 |
I see the Dragon Hotel once the jewel in the crown of the town centre, is now being used for the homeless.
The owners of establishments like this can only see £ signs |
They are in the business to make money, it's not a charity |  | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 18:20 - May 2 with 1245 views | felixstowe_jack |
When you add in free health care and education the cost is astronomical. | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 18:45 - May 2 with 1219 views | raynor94 |
| Immigration Costs an example on 18:03 - May 2 by controversial_jack |
They are in the business to make money, it's not a charity |
Fair play nobody does trolling like you👏 | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 19:28 - May 2 with 1205 views | AnotherJohn |
It would be interesting to have an accurate lifetime cost of the average non-Western illegal immigrant to the UK taxpayer. I have seen reports of a Dutch study saying the lifetime cost there is about 620,000 euros. Even for the average non-Western migrant (i.e. including legal migrants), it is about 300,000 euros. When one considers externalities such as security costs, collateral damage, and necessary extra infrastructure, the total real cost must be astronomical.
https://miwi-institut.de/archives/2028#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20University [Post edited 2 May 19:52]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 19:37 - May 2 with 1202 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:28 - May 2 by AnotherJohn |
It would be interesting to have an accurate lifetime cost of the average non-Western illegal immigrant to the UK taxpayer. I have seen reports of a Dutch study saying the lifetime cost there is about 620,000 euros. Even for the average non-Western migrant (i.e. including legal migrants), it is about 300,000 euros. When one considers externalities such as security costs, collateral damage, and necessary extra infrastructure, the total real cost must be astronomical.
https://miwi-institut.de/archives/2028#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20University [Post edited 2 May 19:52]
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620 Euros, that 528 quid today and with this years "new arrivals" apparently being over 10k then that's over another 5 million quid.
In 2022 there were over 45k so they added around 24 million to the bill. How much can we afford? we're probably already well past that amount. To cut our costs back to a manageable amount we need to not just stop the boat people but send a considerable number of those already here home.
Thing is, saying that will have a large number of people crying it's racist etc. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:32 - May 3 with 1123 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:28 - May 2 by AnotherJohn |
It would be interesting to have an accurate lifetime cost of the average non-Western illegal immigrant to the UK taxpayer. I have seen reports of a Dutch study saying the lifetime cost there is about 620,000 euros. Even for the average non-Western migrant (i.e. including legal migrants), it is about 300,000 euros. When one considers externalities such as security costs, collateral damage, and necessary extra infrastructure, the total real cost must be astronomical.
https://miwi-institut.de/archives/2028#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20University [Post edited 2 May 19:52]
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Worth pointing out that that study was commissioned by Gert Wilders Party for Freedom. The Dutch version of Reform. | | | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 08:48 - May 3 with 1077 views | Boundy |
| Immigration Costs an example on 18:03 - May 2 by controversial_jack |
They are in the business to make money, it's not a charity |
Has Serco be in touch with you yet ? I recall you said you were in the rental market. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 09:52 - May 3 with 1037 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 08:48 - May 3 by Boundy |
Has Serco be in touch with you yet ? I recall you said you were in the rental market. |
My properties are occupied, but i'll keep it in mind | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 10:09 - May 3 with 1036 views | Scotia |
The key take from that is :-
"Labour migrants' net contribution is positive" that's exactly as it should be. The vast majority of migrants are labour migrants.
It does go on to say that asylum seekers, family migrants and students have a negative impact. I'm not surprised at the first two, but would assume students make a significant positive impact in the UK. They basically keep universities in business and universities are one of the biggest employers in most towns. Perhaps the Dutch system is different. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 12:30 - May 3 with 1007 views | max936 |
| Immigration Costs an example on 18:45 - May 2 by raynor94 |
Fair play nobody does trolling like you👏 |
Don't indulge him is the answer Rayns, I just don't understand people who indulge him and one or two other's. |  |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 20:16 - May 3 with 951 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 10:09 - May 3 by Scotia |
The key take from that is :-
"Labour migrants' net contribution is positive" that's exactly as it should be. The vast majority of migrants are labour migrants.
It does go on to say that asylum seekers, family migrants and students have a negative impact. I'm not surprised at the first two, but would assume students make a significant positive impact in the UK. They basically keep universities in business and universities are one of the biggest employers in most towns. Perhaps the Dutch system is different. |
My claim was about non-Western immigrants, who according to all three of the studies mentioned have a negative fiscal impact. It is true this is a complicated issue with a different picture for different groups, but the overall picture seems much less rosy than people were claiming a few years ago. The Dutch researchers write: "Only 20% of all immigrants make a positive lifetime net contribution to the public budget. Groups with large contributions come from Scandinavia, the Anglo-Saxon world and a few other countries like France and Japan."
With students, I imagine fiscal impact is affected by the number of dependents they bring, in many cases more than you might suppose. One PhD student known to me brought her husband and 4 children, which I admit is pretty exceptional. They have all returned to their home country now,
Edited to insert quote I should have added. [Post edited 3 May 20:28]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 21:44 - May 4 with 840 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
He seems to understand that calling people with concerns about the impact of immigration right wing and Nazis does not address the real issues with immigration. | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 00:57 - May 5 with 796 views | Robbie |
The appalling Government we have now led by the fraud Two Tier Kier pledged to stop the small boats crossings ASAP when elected , that has turned out well mush .
Pritti Patel and the last lot huffed and puffed but again were useless failures in tackling this issue , tied up in knots by red tape and civil rights judges scared to make any real laws .
Reform will never Govern but the the arguments they create will make people sit up .
Protest vote or not , my ballot box X at the next opportunity is already decided . | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:32 - May 6 with 711 views | Scotia |
I've read the original discussion notes from these statements by Jonathan Hinder, and they seem very sensible. He does though raise a few issues that are underpinning the migrant crisis but will be extremely difficult to address. Some of these are the areas of employment that are totally dependent on migrant Labour and the loss of jobs that are supported by immigration, e.g universities. He doesn't address this at all. He just says we may have to suck it up basically.
Swansea University / UWTSD are the largest private sector employers in Swansea, these are well paid secure jobs. What and where are the alternatives?
Who is going to do the jobs currently done by migrants?
Can you imagine the furore if Labour were responsible for significant unemplyment in University towns like Swansea, Plymouth, Hull etc? Or the social care system collapsing (both a likelihoood under Reform by the way).
He also mentions removing legal obstacles to stopping the boats - this is happening to a certain degree, but leaving ECHR removes an awful lot of rights we all take for granted too and should not be taken lightly. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:30 - May 6 with 682 views | onehunglow |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:32 - May 6 by Scotia |
I've read the original discussion notes from these statements by Jonathan Hinder, and they seem very sensible. He does though raise a few issues that are underpinning the migrant crisis but will be extremely difficult to address. Some of these are the areas of employment that are totally dependent on migrant Labour and the loss of jobs that are supported by immigration, e.g universities. He doesn't address this at all. He just says we may have to suck it up basically.
Swansea University / UWTSD are the largest private sector employers in Swansea, these are well paid secure jobs. What and where are the alternatives?
Who is going to do the jobs currently done by migrants?
Can you imagine the furore if Labour were responsible for significant unemplyment in University towns like Swansea, Plymouth, Hull etc? Or the social care system collapsing (both a likelihoood under Reform by the way).
He also mentions removing legal obstacles to stopping the boats - this is happening to a certain degree, but leaving ECHR removes an awful lot of rights we all take for granted too and should not be taken lightly. |
Are you serious with these views or just adding to the discussion
I'm struggling to reply frankly
If you are and if your views are shared by the majority then I seriously am glad I am reaching the end of my life
To allow these chancers on then spend OUR taxes on them lies madness | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 10:24 - May 6 with 657 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:32 - May 6 by Scotia |
I've read the original discussion notes from these statements by Jonathan Hinder, and they seem very sensible. He does though raise a few issues that are underpinning the migrant crisis but will be extremely difficult to address. Some of these are the areas of employment that are totally dependent on migrant Labour and the loss of jobs that are supported by immigration, e.g universities. He doesn't address this at all. He just says we may have to suck it up basically.
Swansea University / UWTSD are the largest private sector employers in Swansea, these are well paid secure jobs. What and where are the alternatives?
Who is going to do the jobs currently done by migrants?
Can you imagine the furore if Labour were responsible for significant unemplyment in University towns like Swansea, Plymouth, Hull etc? Or the social care system collapsing (both a likelihoood under Reform by the way).
He also mentions removing legal obstacles to stopping the boats - this is happening to a certain degree, but leaving ECHR removes an awful lot of rights we all take for granted too and should not be taken lightly. |
I'm not sure the staffing of Swansea University is as diverse as, for example, some London universities. The latest Equality Annual Report (2023-24) shows that about 13% of staff are non-white, an increase of over 6% from 6 years ago and reflecting a big diversity push. 4.6% are Asian, 3.8% other ethnic, 2.4% Chinese, 1.5% mixed, and 1.2% Black. Some white staff are overseas born, but my guess is not that many.
https://www.swansea.ac.uk/media/Equality-Annual-Report-2024.pdf
My impression is that non-academic staff are mostly UK-born white persons, and that most of immigrants working in the university are academics. Casting my mind back to the line-up of senior staff on key management committees since 2000 , only one Asian and three Germans come to mind. Under the old system, I cannot recall a Vice Chancellor or PVC who was an immigrant - perhaps one Dean was. The current senior management team includes a Dublin-born Registrar, while the rest are UK-born, although one worked in Australia for much of her career. Among the STEM subject teaching staff there is more of a mix, but several persons of Asian, European, and American origin have been in the UK for many years and probably have citizenship. There are few African-born academics. If you roll back the clock to the 1970s there was only a tiny minority of non-Brits in the university. Therefore I think it would survive without any new immigrants, especially in a period when most UK universities are trying to reduce their staff numbers via voluntary severance schemes. Of course, it may now be very tempting to recruit some star Americans disillusioned by their current POTUS. 
I cannot resist quoting a passage from the above report that for me signals an erosion of meritocratic recruitment (more a want-based than a need-based approach if you like).
"Most notably, recruitment, retention, and promotion success rates of colleagues from ethnic minority backgrounds remains a key priority. For the first time, the highest percentage of applicants for university positions are from an ethnic minority background, with applications rising by 11.9% this year. Of particular importance is the need to increase the number of colleagues from ethnic minority backgrounds in senior positions at the University."
Of course, the university does need overseas students - a different issue. But the issue there is more about dependents and what happens after graduation in terms of permission to remain. [Post edited 6 May 10:31]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 10:40 - May 6 with 636 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 10:24 - May 6 by AnotherJohn |
I'm not sure the staffing of Swansea University is as diverse as, for example, some London universities. The latest Equality Annual Report (2023-24) shows that about 13% of staff are non-white, an increase of over 6% from 6 years ago and reflecting a big diversity push. 4.6% are Asian, 3.8% other ethnic, 2.4% Chinese, 1.5% mixed, and 1.2% Black. Some white staff are overseas born, but my guess is not that many.
https://www.swansea.ac.uk/media/Equality-Annual-Report-2024.pdf
My impression is that non-academic staff are mostly UK-born white persons, and that most of immigrants working in the university are academics. Casting my mind back to the line-up of senior staff on key management committees since 2000 , only one Asian and three Germans come to mind. Under the old system, I cannot recall a Vice Chancellor or PVC who was an immigrant - perhaps one Dean was. The current senior management team includes a Dublin-born Registrar, while the rest are UK-born, although one worked in Australia for much of her career. Among the STEM subject teaching staff there is more of a mix, but several persons of Asian, European, and American origin have been in the UK for many years and probably have citizenship. There are few African-born academics. If you roll back the clock to the 1970s there was only a tiny minority of non-Brits in the university. Therefore I think it would survive without any new immigrants, especially in a period when most UK universities are trying to reduce their staff numbers via voluntary severance schemes. Of course, it may now be very tempting to recruit some star Americans disillusioned by their current POTUS.
I cannot resist quoting a passage from the above report that for me signals an erosion of meritocratic recruitment (more a want-based than a need-based approach if you like).
"Most notably, recruitment, retention, and promotion success rates of colleagues from ethnic minority backgrounds remains a key priority. For the first time, the highest percentage of applicants for university positions are from an ethnic minority background, with applications rising by 11.9% this year. Of particular importance is the need to increase the number of colleagues from ethnic minority backgrounds in senior positions at the University."
Of course, the university does need overseas students - a different issue. But the issue there is more about dependents and what happens after graduation in terms of permission to remain. [Post edited 6 May 10:31]
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It won't be able to employ it's current number of staff without foreign students. Hinder says we may have to see some universities going bankrupt to reduce immigration numbers, in terms of international students. That means redundancies amongst the non immigrant workforce and a lack of academic progress and research.
The employment sectors he refers to are the jobs for which are reliant on immigrant labour, namely low skill, low wage unpleasant roles that British people aren't prepared to do. No immigrants means too few social care staff, too few cleaning staff, too few catering staff etc. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:15 - May 6 with 613 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 10:40 - May 6 by Scotia |
It won't be able to employ it's current number of staff without foreign students. Hinder says we may have to see some universities going bankrupt to reduce immigration numbers, in terms of international students. That means redundancies amongst the non immigrant workforce and a lack of academic progress and research.
The employment sectors he refers to are the jobs for which are reliant on immigrant labour, namely low skill, low wage unpleasant roles that British people aren't prepared to do. No immigrants means too few social care staff, too few cleaning staff, too few catering staff etc. |
I was covering the other angle concerning whether university staffing itself depends on immigration. Some say universities won't continue to deliver internationally-leading research without the "brightest and the best" researchers from around the world, but I am sceptical about that argument.
I mentioned the student aspect at the end, but admittedly did not elaborate. My take on this is that brakes on dependents and right to stay on have temporarily reduced demand, but this is ticking up again, and will be sufficient to allow most traditional universities to survive. Hinder is probably thinking of some of the new universities that have tried to cash in with low quality degree courses for the overseas market.
As you know, I don't agree with the general argument about the need for continued high immigration to fill jobs Brits won't do, because with more than 18 million arrivals since 1990 we still have jobs that cannot recruit - it is a kind of endless conveyor belt. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 06:23 - May 7 with 494 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:15 - May 6 by AnotherJohn |
I was covering the other angle concerning whether university staffing itself depends on immigration. Some say universities won't continue to deliver internationally-leading research without the "brightest and the best" researchers from around the world, but I am sceptical about that argument.
I mentioned the student aspect at the end, but admittedly did not elaborate. My take on this is that brakes on dependents and right to stay on have temporarily reduced demand, but this is ticking up again, and will be sufficient to allow most traditional universities to survive. Hinder is probably thinking of some of the new universities that have tried to cash in with low quality degree courses for the overseas market.
As you know, I don't agree with the general argument about the need for continued high immigration to fill jobs Brits won't do, because with more than 18 million arrivals since 1990 we still have jobs that cannot recruit - it is a kind of endless conveyor belt. |
You may not agree with it but we're running with huge numbers of vacancies in key sectors where we are dependent on immigrant labour.
Roughly 150000 vacancies in social care alone. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 17:10 - May 7 with 426 views | raynor94 |
£4 million a day on asylum hotels and accommodation, and Starmer and Reeves insisted it was necessary to cut the wfa to balance the books.
Even Welsh Labour are calling out Bonnie and Clyde, because they can see whats coming next year | |
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