| Immigration Costs an example 12:03 - May 2 with 2257 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Yesterday about 900 people crossed the channel, the Government is now paying an average of £41,000 a year to house an illegal migrant.
In housing costs alone that will cost us nearly £37 Million a year just for one days crossings, at 900 a day the bill is £13.5 Billion.
Those who say illegal migration is not a problem are at best misled.
[Post edited 2 May 12:04]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 18:36 - May 7 with 889 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 06:23 - May 7 by Scotia |
You may not agree with it but we're running with huge numbers of vacancies in key sectors where we are dependent on immigrant labour.
Roughly 150000 vacancies in social care alone. |
The issue isn't the number of vacancies, but whether immigration is the answer to the problem. Twenty years experience and getting on for 20 million arrivals shows it isn't the solution. How does the saying go? "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity". |  | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:41 - May 7 with 853 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration Costs an example on 18:36 - May 7 by AnotherJohn |
The issue isn't the number of vacancies, but whether immigration is the answer to the problem. Twenty years experience and getting on for 20 million arrivals shows it isn't the solution. How does the saying go? "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity". |
One of the primary issues is low birth rate.
We’ve an aging population and people aren’t having enough kids to do the things we need.
Immigrants are filling that gap. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 20:14 - May 7 with 831 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 18:36 - May 7 by AnotherJohn |
The issue isn't the number of vacancies, but whether immigration is the answer to the problem. Twenty years experience and getting on for 20 million arrivals shows it isn't the solution. How does the saying go? "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity". |
It's not a sustainable answer but in the medium term there is no alternative.
A few years ago they would have been European transient migrants in the main, now they aren't. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 20:41 - May 7 with 809 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:41 - May 7 by Gwyn737 |
One of the primary issues is low birth rate.
We’ve an aging population and people aren’t having enough kids to do the things we need.
Immigrants are filling that gap. |
Exactly. If we want to stimulate this ailing economy we need more Turkish barbers, vape shops and car washes. Not less. Without immigrants our industry would collapse. |  |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 21:07 - May 7 with 788 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration Costs an example on 20:41 - May 7 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Exactly. If we want to stimulate this ailing economy we need more Turkish barbers, vape shops and car washes. Not less. Without immigrants our industry would collapse. |
I was meaning more those who work healthcare. Or the care sector. Or social services. Or food production. Or education. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 00:56 - May 8 with 721 views | Robbie |
People on their e bikes hanging around Castle Gardens muttering into their phones with their hoodies up , what a sight .
Why do I never venture into Swansea City centre anymore there is your answer .
Good luck to the retail staff in the shops who have to tolerate undesirables .
Swansea has enough problems as it is with their own feral upbringing .
Get a domestic in from overseas who is prepared to clean up a turd from a hospital ward after an operation , not many locals will get out of bed in the morning .
How can you split the goodies from the baddies . | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:04 - May 8 with 675 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:41 - May 7 by Gwyn737 |
One of the primary issues is low birth rate.
We’ve an aging population and people aren’t having enough kids to do the things we need.
Immigrants are filling that gap. |
There are a number of things to keep in mind.
Current projections, which assume that net immigration drops to about 340,000 p.a. down from the current level of over 720k, has the UK population rising by 4.9 million between 2022 and 2032.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/popul
So current immigration levels are doing more than maintain the population at its current level. Also bear in mind that the recent huge population surge probably means we already have more people than existing infrastructure can comfortably support – i.e. the current situation is far from optimal.
The projections assume further falls in fertility rates and increases in life expectancy (which however may not be set in stone).
If the UK had zero net migration, the populations of England and N. Ireland appear likely to grow slightly by 2043, while those of Wales and Scotland would see significant falls.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-impact-of-migratio
Of course, people will say that the issue is not so much population size per se, but age distribution and the problem of an ageing population. The UK population pyramid (i.e. the shape of the distribution of population groups across the age range) currently does not narrow greatly at the bottom. In other words, there are sufficient people of working age and minors to put us in a better position than most other European countries, something which admittedly may be due to past high levels of immigration.
Future projections show this position worsening with fewer young people as a proportion of the whole. However, if you use the population calculator in the link below to look at different scenarios and switch from a low immigration scenario to a high immigration scenario you will find that in both scenarios the bottom of the pyramid narrows significantly over time. This is because immigration is not a long term solution to an ageing population, as immigrants themselves get old and there are long term constraints on how high you can push a population in a small country in order to always maintain an adequate proportion of younger people. You can vary the end point year as well to see how the various scenarios play out over time.
Looking at the various scenarios I would say the UK would be better off if it kept net immigration below 200,000 per year, based on a more selective approach. Long-term zero net immigration is probably impractical, although a period of a few years of net zero to give integration a chance to work might have benefits. Readers can play around with the scenarios on the webpage and see for themselves. Bear in mind that you only need to change the underlying assumptions slightly for the outcomes to change significantly (as is shown by changing official projections at different time points).
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/popul | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:13 - May 8 with 671 views | Dr_Winston |
The problem with the whole "we need immigration because of the low birth rate" is that it doesn't take into account what happens when they themselves get old. We end up locked into a cycle of needing more and more entrants to sustain the system, like a Ponzi scheme.
What we need to do is encourage more births from UK citizens. That means affordable housing, affordable childcare, parental rights. At least one of those is negatively affected by more migration. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 07:37 - May 8 with 642 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:13 - May 8 by Dr_Winston |
The problem with the whole "we need immigration because of the low birth rate" is that it doesn't take into account what happens when they themselves get old. We end up locked into a cycle of needing more and more entrants to sustain the system, like a Ponzi scheme.
What we need to do is encourage more births from UK citizens. That means affordable housing, affordable childcare, parental rights. At least one of those is negatively affected by more migration. |
And end the ability to live on benefits unless you absolutely need to. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:07 - May 8 with 610 views | Boundy |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:37 - May 8 by Scotia |
And end the ability to live on benefits unless you absolutely need to. |
and stop making it attractive to come here by giving handouts to those breaking the law in doing so. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 10:47 - May 8 with 554 views | controversial_jack |
It doesn't really matter as long as they have gone. It must cost a few quite to fly them back to wherever | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:47 - May 8 with 527 views | Boundy |
Read and digest what written down , then come back and tell me they don't get benefits .
https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 06:46 - May 10 with 388 views | AnotherJohn |
The Times today reports that the Home Office believes it will be impossible to achieve the Government's planned immigration ceilings of about 340k arrivals p.a. and also that the economic benefits of immigration have been overstated.
‘The Home Office fears that annual net migration is going to settle above the 340,000 level expected by the government unless radical policies are introduced.
Officials believe that as well as underestimating the levels of long-term immigration to the UK, government forecasts are also overstating its economic benefits.
They fear that from 2028 net migration will be closer to 525,000 — currently the high end of the Office for National Statistics (ONS) projections — because migrants are staying for longer than previously thought. (…) The ONS has said this is particularly true of international students because of the introduction of the graduate visa (…) Half of all those who arrived on a study visa in 2021 transitioned to a different visa type three years later, up from 9 per cent of those who arrived in 2019, according to ONS data.(...)
In October the OBR for the first time started publishing an estimate of the fiscal impact of migrants across their lifetime. It assumes that each additional person would require an increase in public spending of £20,000 to cover for the extra strain on public infrastructure and services. However, it cannot include these additional costs in its official economic forecasts without the Treasury’s approval because it can only model the fiscal outlook based on what is in the Treasury’s spending plans for the next five years.
Home Office officials and some Downing Street aides are understood to be pushing for these costs to be considered in official OBR forecasts.
Immigration and economic experts have also warned that the official economic forecasts only take into account the initial few years or so of a migrant’s life in the UK, which is often when foreign workers are contributing the most to the economy and the public purse because they are paying taxes but cannot claim benefits for at least five years. They are also unlikely to use the NHS as much as they will later on in their lives.
Professor Brian Bell, chairman of the Migration Advisory Committee, which advises the government on immigration policy, said: “ I think the problem is we’ve focused on the wrong thing. So the thing we are focused on is ‘What is the fiscal impact in the next four years?’, because that is all the government cares about when it comes to the fiscal rules and all the headroom that people talk about in the budget.’
(This is behind a paywall)'
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/net-migration-forecasts-labour-89rm [Post edited 10 May 10:23]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 11:33 - May 11 with 291 views | Dr_Winston |
Asylum seekers get Home Office support whilst they await a decision on their status. Once they receive permission to remain in the UK they then receive entitlement to the usual UK benefits.
It's mostly a semantic argument as to what constitutes "benefits". Ultimately whether they've had their application approved or not the money they live off comes from the same place. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 13:25 - May 11 with 251 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:33 - May 11 by Dr_Winston |
Asylum seekers get Home Office support whilst they await a decision on their status. Once they receive permission to remain in the UK they then receive entitlement to the usual UK benefits.
It's mostly a semantic argument as to what constitutes "benefits". Ultimately whether they've had their application approved or not the money they live off comes from the same place. |
These are the asylum seekers that apply. The other illegals who simply vanish don't apply for benefits for obvious reasons | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 13:43 - May 11 with 247 views | max936 |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:30 - May 6 by onehunglow |
Are you serious with these views or just adding to the discussion
I'm struggling to reply frankly
If you are and if your views are shared by the majority then I seriously am glad I am reaching the end of my life
To allow these chancers on then spend OUR taxes on them lies madness |
If he had a boat he'd run a shuttle service to bring them over [mad[
I've little issues with regards legal migrants if they are self sufficient of course, but illegal immigration is costing the tax payer billions and it needs to be stopped and Spammer and his cronies isn't gone stop it. |  |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 16:10 - May 11 with 223 views | SullutaCreturned |
Bend, an understatement eh. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 16:26 - May 11 with 218 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 13:43 - May 11 by max936 |
If he had a boat he'd run a shuttle service to bring them over [mad[
I've little issues with regards legal migrants if they are self sufficient of course, but illegal immigration is costing the tax payer billions and it needs to be stopped and Spammer and his cronies isn't gone stop it. |
Don't know about the illegals but...
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c626dyd8y8wo
That's care homes even more short staffed then because young British people are too far up their own asses to do these jobs.
I work for a housing association and in our properties I see a lot of care workers and the majority...vast majority are obviously immigrants, not white and English is clearly a second language. They come here willing to work and we all know social care is bloody hard work. Our young British born think those jobs below them. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:11 - May 12 with 159 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 16:26 - May 11 by SullutaCreturned |
Don't know about the illegals but...
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c626dyd8y8wo
That's care homes even more short staffed then because young British people are too far up their own asses to do these jobs.
I work for a housing association and in our properties I see a lot of care workers and the majority...vast majority are obviously immigrants, not white and English is clearly a second language. They come here willing to work and we all know social care is bloody hard work. Our young British born think those jobs below them. |
Care home work is likely to be one of the big points for debate in the wake of the White Paper.
I think everybody would agree that many migrants working in care homes are doing a good job and deserve credit for that. However, there is a downside to importing low-skilled migrants when there are around 5 million unemployed in the UK who do not have significant health problems. To get these into work would probably take a change in benefit entitlements plus better pay for care home work.
It is wrong to say that no Brits will do this work as only around 19% of care home workers are foreign born according to 2023 Skills for Care data.
A care chain manager interviewed by the BBC today said that a ban on new arrivals might be manageable as long as immigrants already in the UK were allowed to stay to do the work.
There are reports of scams involving rogue sponsors who make immigrants pay a fee to get a visa but then fail to put them into jobs, or in extreme cases exploit them as low paid slaves. Recent reports suggest there is a pool of 10,000 immigrants who got visas for whom jobs did not materialise, and who could be recruited by care homes other than their original sponsor. Given the number of past arrivals and the high number of care home work vacancies, one imagines that many past recruits move on to other work after a time.
In 2023 about 120,000 dependents accompanied the 100,000 care home workers recruited, which prompted the change in the rules to end visas for dependants. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:59 - May 12 with 107 views | majorraglan |
| Immigration Costs an example on 16:26 - May 11 by SullutaCreturned |
Don't know about the illegals but...
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c626dyd8y8wo
That's care homes even more short staffed then because young British people are too far up their own asses to do these jobs.
I work for a housing association and in our properties I see a lot of care workers and the majority...vast majority are obviously immigrants, not white and English is clearly a second language. They come here willing to work and we all know social care is bloody hard work. Our young British born think those jobs below them. |
Not only is social care below them, but many also cock their noses up at work in food factories etc. Unfortunately, some don’t have a work ethic and can survive pretty well on benefits without having to graft. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 22:02 - May 12 with 96 views | majorraglan |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:11 - May 12 by AnotherJohn |
Care home work is likely to be one of the big points for debate in the wake of the White Paper.
I think everybody would agree that many migrants working in care homes are doing a good job and deserve credit for that. However, there is a downside to importing low-skilled migrants when there are around 5 million unemployed in the UK who do not have significant health problems. To get these into work would probably take a change in benefit entitlements plus better pay for care home work.
It is wrong to say that no Brits will do this work as only around 19% of care home workers are foreign born according to 2023 Skills for Care data.
A care chain manager interviewed by the BBC today said that a ban on new arrivals might be manageable as long as immigrants already in the UK were allowed to stay to do the work.
There are reports of scams involving rogue sponsors who make immigrants pay a fee to get a visa but then fail to put them into jobs, or in extreme cases exploit them as low paid slaves. Recent reports suggest there is a pool of 10,000 immigrants who got visas for whom jobs did not materialise, and who could be recruited by care homes other than their original sponsor. Given the number of past arrivals and the high number of care home work vacancies, one imagines that many past recruits move on to other work after a time.
In 2023 about 120,000 dependents accompanied the 100,000 care home workers recruited, which prompted the change in the rules to end visas for dependants. |
The point you make about rogue sponsors interesting, maybe that something that the government could look at with a serious threat of jail for those who are based in the U.K. and ripping off innocent people. | | | |
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