| Immigration Costs an example 12:03 - May 2 with 7841 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Yesterday about 900 people crossed the channel, the Government is now paying an average of £41,000 a year to house an illegal migrant.
In housing costs alone that will cost us nearly £37 Million a year just for one days crossings, at 900 a day the bill is £13.5 Billion.
Those who say illegal migration is not a problem are at best misled.
[Post edited 2 May 12:04]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 08:04 - Jun 3 with 832 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:01 - Jun 2 by AnotherJohn |
If, as you concede, a majority of migrants do not make a net fiscal contribution then they are making the economic situation worse - it is as simple as that.
How many are in work does not matter without a positive fiscal contribution, but it is a concern that a high number are not in work. ONS data shows that in Q2 of 2024 1.689m non-UK nationals were either economically inactive or unemployed ("workless").
The other point your post does not address is the rapidly changing size of the risk pool which makes planning so difficult. If we cannot assume that tax revenue generated (net fiscal contribution) increases at a rate sufficient to cover the extra spending needed for the extra population, then the whole system is threatened.
Incidentally, this argument has nothing to do with monetarism. Friedman was in favour of labour mobility and against welfare states. [Post edited 2 Jun 7:09]
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We also need to remember that the "economically inactive" figure includes foreign students and, in many cases until recent rule changes, their families. That is probably close to 1,000000 people. Largely funded by their home governments and supporting Uk universities, they won't be staying long term (unless they get a job) so won't be a financial burden.
There are about 8,000000 economically inactive British people. That is the problem. [Post edited 3 Jun 8:07]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 09:08 - Jun 3 with 804 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:58 - Jun 3 by Scotia |
We've only allowed the net growth because we've needed them, some more so than others, but until we solve the huge issue of people unwilling to work we'll keep needing them. |
That response completely misses the point, which if you recall was whether mass migration had weakened the UK's ability to fund a welfare state. Readers will be able to make up their own minds about the arguments. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:55 - Jun 3 with 751 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:08 - Jun 3 by AnotherJohn |
That response completely misses the point, which if you recall was whether mass migration had weakened the UK's ability to fund a welfare state. Readers will be able to make up their own minds about the arguments. |
No it doesn't. Mass migration is filling a need. It's obvious that nobody in the UK is prepared to do the jobs migrants are legally doing. Even the easy jobs.
The affordability of a welfare state is weakened by the size of the budget required, which is increased caused by economically inactive Brits. Migration is filling that gap not creating the problem. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 10:00 - Jun 4 with 655 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:55 - Jun 3 by Scotia |
No it doesn't. Mass migration is filling a need. It's obvious that nobody in the UK is prepared to do the jobs migrants are legally doing. Even the easy jobs.
The affordability of a welfare state is weakened by the size of the budget required, which is increased caused by economically inactive Brits. Migration is filling that gap not creating the problem. |
Of course, someone has to fund our pensions | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:19 - Jun 5 with 565 views | Dr_Winston |
Interesting read.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 09:28 - Jun 5 with 555 views | raynor94 |
I mentioned it on the Burka thread Simon Reeves programme on Scandinavia is worth a watch especially his visit to Denmark |  |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 10:10 - Jun 5 with 523 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:28 - Jun 5 by raynor94 |
I mentioned it on the Burka thread Simon Reeves programme on Scandinavia is worth a watch especially his visit to Denmark |
I enjoyed his visit to Finland,especially how they educate their children compared to how we do it. We are still in the dark ages here.
Norway was interesting too, how the country has this huge sovereign welfare fund to benefit the country from it's oil revenues. Contrast that to this country, when the big corps benefited and that money has now gone. Apparently, it's only Socialists that waste money, this proves otherwise.
I've not seen the Denmark episode yet, but looking forward to that | | | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 11:24 - Jun 8 with 439 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 10:10 - Jun 5 by controversial_jack |
I enjoyed his visit to Finland,especially how they educate their children compared to how we do it. We are still in the dark ages here.
Norway was interesting too, how the country has this huge sovereign welfare fund to benefit the country from it's oil revenues. Contrast that to this country, when the big corps benefited and that money has now gone. Apparently, it's only Socialists that waste money, this proves otherwise.
I've not seen the Denmark episode yet, but looking forward to that |
Another (small) piece in the jigsaw is the cost of assisted returns (the biggest proportion of what some Labour politicians have wrongly included in "deportations". This is the £3000 plus airfare package offered to get people to leave the UK on a voluntary basis, and has cost the UK just under £54 million over 4 years.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/revealed-home-office-pays-migrants-53m-to-
Of course, that is a lot cheaper than having them stay. The latter is very bad for our pensions as the overall cost of illegal and low-skilled immigration is undoubtedly adding to the national debt. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:28 - Jun 9 with 384 views | Dr_Winston |
It's interesting how the media narrative is shifting. A couple of years ago you'd never have seen a story like that anywhere outside the Sun, Mail etc. It's like more and more people have come to the conclusion that uncontrolled migration is actually a bad thing and it's not actually racist or far right to say so. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 19:20 - Jun 13 with 312 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:55 - Jun 3 by Scotia |
No it doesn't. Mass migration is filling a need. It's obvious that nobody in the UK is prepared to do the jobs migrants are legally doing. Even the easy jobs.
The affordability of a welfare state is weakened by the size of the budget required, which is increased caused by economically inactive Brits. Migration is filling that gap not creating the problem. |
Migration is filling the gap yes. It is also fuelling the problem though. These jobs many migrants are doing are often low paid and so will also rely on child benefit and universal credit, the welfare state.
It's a multiplier not a cure.
Yes 8 million economically inctive Brits is th bigger problem but 1 million inactive immigrants just makes things worse, not better. Both things need to be addressed. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:32 - Jun 13 with 301 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:20 - Jun 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Migration is filling the gap yes. It is also fuelling the problem though. These jobs many migrants are doing are often low paid and so will also rely on child benefit and universal credit, the welfare state.
It's a multiplier not a cure.
Yes 8 million economically inctive Brits is th bigger problem but 1 million inactive immigrants just makes things worse, not better. Both things need to be addressed. |
Nobody who works should need to rely on additional benefits but we've got used to having them. No government is going to take them away. If a trickle down capitalist economy worked well in work benefits wouldn't be needed because people would be paid more, people at the top are too greedy though.
Then of course there's the inflation to think of. I'm no economist.
Address the economically inactive Brits and migration sorts itself, there is absolutely no appetite to do it though. There has to be enough people who can work but don't out of those 8 million to mean we don't need to rely on immigration. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 20:07 - Jun 13 with 287 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:32 - Jun 13 by Scotia |
Nobody who works should need to rely on additional benefits but we've got used to having them. No government is going to take them away. If a trickle down capitalist economy worked well in work benefits wouldn't be needed because people would be paid more, people at the top are too greedy though.
Then of course there's the inflation to think of. I'm no economist.
Address the economically inactive Brits and migration sorts itself, there is absolutely no appetite to do it though. There has to be enough people who can work but don't out of those 8 million to mean we don't need to rely on immigration. |
I largely agree but to address the inactive Brits we have to deal with the immigration side at the same time, they are 2 sodes of the same coin.
O have long said trickle down doesn't work, as you say the rich are greedy and don't want to share.
It's been said on here before that there are jobs there that most people can do. Even the housebound. As you say though, there is no appetite for that, no real desire to solve the problem. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 20:43 - Jun 13 with 267 views | trampie |
| Immigration Costs an example on 19:32 - Jun 13 by Scotia |
Nobody who works should need to rely on additional benefits but we've got used to having them. No government is going to take them away. If a trickle down capitalist economy worked well in work benefits wouldn't be needed because people would be paid more, people at the top are too greedy though.
Then of course there's the inflation to think of. I'm no economist.
Address the economically inactive Brits and migration sorts itself, there is absolutely no appetite to do it though. There has to be enough people who can work but don't out of those 8 million to mean we don't need to rely on immigration. |
Like most capitalist ideas, trickle down doesn't work Thatcher and Regan got that wrong. |  |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 21:29 - Jun 13 with 260 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 20:43 - Jun 13 by trampie |
Like most capitalist ideas, trickle down doesn't work Thatcher and Regan got that wrong. |
Capitalism is, and always has been set up to benefit the rich and powerful. Money goes to money. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:49 - Jun 13 with 251 views | Dr_Winston |
People want to be well off. They want to lead comfortable lives and leave a little something to their descendants. They want their kids to have more opportunities than they did themselves.
No system that humanity has come up with in the entirety of its existence thus far does this better than Capitalism. Socialism does its best to drag everyone down to the same level. Communism ensures that nobody has anything other than those in charge. Both of them ignore human nature like it doesn't exist and inevitably end up in totalitarianism because the only way to ensure their continued existence is by force.
Is Capitalism great? No, clearly there needs to be some checks and balances to offset people's worst impulses. Is it better than anything else we've got? By miles. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 21:58 - Jun 13 with 247 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:49 - Jun 13 by Dr_Winston |
People want to be well off. They want to lead comfortable lives and leave a little something to their descendants. They want their kids to have more opportunities than they did themselves.
No system that humanity has come up with in the entirety of its existence thus far does this better than Capitalism. Socialism does its best to drag everyone down to the same level. Communism ensures that nobody has anything other than those in charge. Both of them ignore human nature like it doesn't exist and inevitably end up in totalitarianism because the only way to ensure their continued existence is by force.
Is Capitalism great? No, clearly there needs to be some checks and balances to offset people's worst impulses. Is it better than anything else we've got? By miles. |
therein lies the problem, until humanity gets cleverer and learns to overcome our more base instincts, nothing much will im[prove.
there will always be greed and selfishness. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 22:08 - Jun 13 with 245 views | Dr_Winston |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:58 - Jun 13 by SullutaCreturned |
therein lies the problem, until humanity gets cleverer and learns to overcome our more base instincts, nothing much will im[prove.
there will always be greed and selfishness. |
It's not going to. Or at least, it's going to be a long time until it does.
So in the meantime, let's do what works. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 22:13 - Jun 13 with 243 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:58 - Jun 13 by SullutaCreturned |
therein lies the problem, until humanity gets cleverer and learns to overcome our more base instincts, nothing much will im[prove.
there will always be greed and selfishness. |
And most people expect somebody else to pay for that improvement. It comes down to greed and selfishness.
Every single tax rise or benefit cut is met with uproar but people are dying before an ambulance can get to them, can't see a Dr, rubbish doesn't get collected, people live on the streets, there aren't enough prisons, the roads are either packed or full of pot holes. I could go on obviously.
We have to pay more and expect less. For a few years at least. Nobody is going to vote for that though. Nobody else is going to. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 22:17 - Jun 13 with 241 views | Dr_Winston |
| Immigration Costs an example on 22:13 - Jun 13 by Scotia |
And most people expect somebody else to pay for that improvement. It comes down to greed and selfishness.
Every single tax rise or benefit cut is met with uproar but people are dying before an ambulance can get to them, can't see a Dr, rubbish doesn't get collected, people live on the streets, there aren't enough prisons, the roads are either packed or full of pot holes. I could go on obviously.
We have to pay more and expect less. For a few years at least. Nobody is going to vote for that though. Nobody else is going to. |
Why do we have to pay more? Why can't we expect Goverment to do better with what we pay now?
The annual NHS budget will soon be approaching the GDP of Portugal, yet there are still people out there who will insist that it's underfunded. It's not, and never has been. That's just one example.
The biggest problem with public sector spending is that those spending it just don't care about the cost. It's not "their" money. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 22:36 - Jun 13 with 230 views | trampie |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:29 - Jun 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Capitalism is, and always has been set up to benefit the rich and powerful. Money goes to money. |
Yes indeed | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 22:41 - Jun 13 with 213 views | Whiterockin |
| Immigration Costs an example on 21:29 - Jun 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Capitalism is, and always has been set up to benefit the rich and powerful. Money goes to money. |
Why is it always those without money that say that. |  | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 23:11 - Jun 13 with 184 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 22:17 - Jun 13 by Dr_Winston |
Why do we have to pay more? Why can't we expect Goverment to do better with what we pay now?
The annual NHS budget will soon be approaching the GDP of Portugal, yet there are still people out there who will insist that it's underfunded. It's not, and never has been. That's just one example.
The biggest problem with public sector spending is that those spending it just don't care about the cost. It's not "their" money. |
We can and we should. But I think the concept of government wasting money is misplaced and over exaggerated. Most spending is linked to legislation, like it or not it has to be spent, you can bet the second one item of spending cut is announced somebody will call it out.
We can change legislation, but somebody, potentially lots of people will have a problem with it.
The other issue is that the government don't get enough to deliver what we expect in the first place. Something has to give. Expect
less or pay more.
I'd love to see an example in real terms of the NHS not being underfunded or clear waste. Everywhere I look it's hugely underfunded. It comes down to what we expect of them though and it's not to say every penny is well spent.
I don't expect free paracetamol but do expect an ambulance to save my life if needed. I can get the paracetamol. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 23:32 - Jun 13 with 161 views | DJack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 23:11 - Jun 13 by Scotia |
We can and we should. But I think the concept of government wasting money is misplaced and over exaggerated. Most spending is linked to legislation, like it or not it has to be spent, you can bet the second one item of spending cut is announced somebody will call it out.
We can change legislation, but somebody, potentially lots of people will have a problem with it.
The other issue is that the government don't get enough to deliver what we expect in the first place. Something has to give. Expect
less or pay more.
I'd love to see an example in real terms of the NHS not being underfunded or clear waste. Everywhere I look it's hugely underfunded. It comes down to what we expect of them though and it's not to say every penny is well spent.
I don't expect free paracetamol but do expect an ambulance to save my life if needed. I can get the paracetamol. |
I know it's a different country but one of Musk's DOGE guys who did the auditing posted that he was surprised at how little waste there was... Musk fired him! |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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