| Immigration Costs an example 12:03 - May 2 with 9250 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Yesterday about 900 people crossed the channel, the Government is now paying an average of £41,000 a year to house an illegal migrant.
In housing costs alone that will cost us nearly £37 Million a year just for one days crossings, at 900 a day the bill is £13.5 Billion.
Those who say illegal migration is not a problem are at best misled.
[Post edited 2 May 12:04]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 08:11 - May 15 with 1354 views | majorraglan |
The Independent is now running a story claiming that the last government didn’t understand the ramifications Brexit would have had on the small boats until just before leaving the EU. Incompetent or what! ( I am not suggesting for 1 minute that should have been a reason for not going ahead with Brexit - but they should have been sharp enough to see the ramifications).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-brexit-small-boats-asylum- |  | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 15:47 - May 15 with 1262 views | AnotherJohn |
| Immigration Costs an example on 08:11 - May 15 by majorraglan |
The Independent is now running a story claiming that the last government didn’t understand the ramifications Brexit would have had on the small boats until just before leaving the EU. Incompetent or what! ( I am not suggesting for 1 minute that should have been a reason for not going ahead with Brexit - but they should have been sharp enough to see the ramifications).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-brexit-small-boats-asylum- |
Yes, I read the article. Where I thought it was weak was in its implicit suggestion that the Dublin Regulation was working for the UK. The ministers would have been aware of most of the figures below and how much they would or wouldn't lose by no longer being in teh scheme.
Dublin Regulation (In and out)
The figures by year, and with transfers into the UK followed by transfers out of the UK to EU member states.
Year In Out
2015 131 510
2016 558 362
2017 461 314
2018 1215 846
2019 714 263
2020 882 105
For much of this period less than 10% of UK requests for outward transfers were accepted. For example, in 2019 263 transfers were made following 3259 transfer requests. In 2020 as by now a non-member entitled to use the process for an additional year the UK made 8502 requests for outward transfers of which 105 returns occurred.
Since we left Dublin hasn't been working well for members either as some key states like Italy and Greece are not accepting returns.
Source AIDA Country Report UK , 2020 p. 30. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 01:13 - May 16 with 1201 views | Robbie |
Starmer has been in Albania asking them to accept back their bad guys .
Strangely Albania have said no , we do not want them anymore , your problem now .
Likewise French Border Controls happy to let the small boats cross The Channel without any real attempt to stop them , yet the UK still bang on about helping France out to stop them with the gift running into millions of pounds for the taxpayer .
Tories failed big time , then Starmer came in with a pledge to Stop the Boats in his Election manifesto .
That promise was his demise it seems , now clutching at any crumb of comfort he can find including Rach from accounts front and centre on tele to cover a bad news story . | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:56 - May 16 with 1162 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 09:30 - May 6 by onehunglow |
Are you serious with these views or just adding to the discussion
I'm struggling to reply frankly
If you are and if your views are shared by the majority then I seriously am glad I am reaching the end of my life
To allow these chancers on then spend OUR taxes on them lies madness |
Yes. Completely serious. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:58 - May 16 with 1161 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 13:43 - May 11 by max936 |
If he had a boat he'd run a shuttle service to bring them over [mad[
I've little issues with regards legal migrants if they are self sufficient of course, but illegal immigration is costing the tax payer billions and it needs to be stopped and Spammer and his cronies isn't gone stop it. |
Trust me. I'm not pro immigration unless it's providing a service we need.
The problem is there's a lot of services we need that British people won't do. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 08:46 - May 16 with 1134 views | Boundy |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:58 - May 16 by Scotia |
Trust me. I'm not pro immigration unless it's providing a service we need.
The problem is there's a lot of services we need that British people won't do. |
Maybe if the return to more stringent measures when it came to benefits we would see more return to work instead of being awarded said benefits, maybe if more companies supported by governments provided apprenticeships, maybe if this madness of shared jobs where the lazy can work for 18 hours and the taxpayer supplement the rest with tax credits ,maybe as in especially in Wales education is taken more seriously where kids are taught what they need to know to enable them to secure decent jobs ,maybe if Governments would support for example the farming industry and associated businesses so they could provide the food we need and become self sufficient and with it decent wages to pay the workers to do the work .There's so much wrong with this country and I'm afraid the damage may now be irreversible . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 10:11 - May 16 with 1086 views | onehunglow |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:56 - May 16 by Scotia |
Yes. Completely serious. |
Well done for sticking to your guns anyway | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 17:24 - May 17 with 961 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 08:46 - May 16 by Boundy |
Maybe if the return to more stringent measures when it came to benefits we would see more return to work instead of being awarded said benefits, maybe if more companies supported by governments provided apprenticeships, maybe if this madness of shared jobs where the lazy can work for 18 hours and the taxpayer supplement the rest with tax credits ,maybe as in especially in Wales education is taken more seriously where kids are taught what they need to know to enable them to secure decent jobs ,maybe if Governments would support for example the farming industry and associated businesses so they could provide the food we need and become self sufficient and with it decent wages to pay the workers to do the work .There's so much wrong with this country and I'm afraid the damage may now be irreversible . |
We need to significantly reduce the welfare bill and people who can work must work even if it's doing something they don't want to do. The problem is that's not a vote winner. Means testing the winter fuel allowance is absolutely correct, but the bar may have been set too low.
The amount of savings you can have and still get benefits is bonkers too. £16k in some cases. Nobody with £16k in the bank needs handouts paid for by the taxpayer.
Perhaps if we could cut the welfare bill the government could contribute to an increase in the minimum wage? | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 17:47 - May 17 with 947 views | Dr_Winston |
| Immigration Costs an example on 17:24 - May 17 by Scotia |
We need to significantly reduce the welfare bill and people who can work must work even if it's doing something they don't want to do. The problem is that's not a vote winner. Means testing the winter fuel allowance is absolutely correct, but the bar may have been set too low.
The amount of savings you can have and still get benefits is bonkers too. £16k in some cases. Nobody with £16k in the bank needs handouts paid for by the taxpayer.
Perhaps if we could cut the welfare bill the government could contribute to an increase in the minimum wage? |
There were people receiving Child and Working Tax Credits with well over six figures in savings as Capital wasn't taken into account when assessing entitlement, only income. This situation is ending now they're all being moved over onto Universal Credit.
We need to look at how other countries operate. There are places out there where all "working" benefits are time limited. You get 6-12 months and then that's it. Whilst I wouldn't go that far, there does need to be a far firmer set of rules for discouraging people to sit on benefits for too long.
Personally I'd always go for some form of Workfare or Community Service. However much someone receives per week in benefits, they need to do that many hours of community work at NMW to "earn" it. Someone receiving say, £750 a month in benefits needs to be doing 65 hours a month of work. Basically works out at two 8hr days a week.
No show, no pay. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 17:52 - May 17 with 940 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 17:24 - May 17 by Scotia |
We need to significantly reduce the welfare bill and people who can work must work even if it's doing something they don't want to do. The problem is that's not a vote winner. Means testing the winter fuel allowance is absolutely correct, but the bar may have been set too low.
The amount of savings you can have and still get benefits is bonkers too. £16k in some cases. Nobody with £16k in the bank needs handouts paid for by the taxpayer.
Perhaps if we could cut the welfare bill the government could contribute to an increase in the minimum wage? |
I agree with you, people who have put 16k away are probably hiding cash elsewhere so they can continue to recieve benefits. 16k is far too high, we have 3 incomes in this house, total income over 62k per year and we haven't got 16 in savings nor anywhere near.
I'm sure nobody us surprised that the OBR makes predictions that aren't included in the official forecasts, governments obfuscate on purpose, leave some things out to make their figures look much better or to swing an ideological argument.
Politicians routinely lie about the numbers except they've convinced themselves its not lying. Just another day in Westminster....and all the other parliaments/senates etc. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:38 - May 31 with 742 views | AnotherJohn |
Another high-cost example reported in the media is the amount of benefits paid to households that contain a foreign national - said to be a billion a month.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/politics/government/government-is-paying-over-1billion
I know this is the Mail, but the same story in the Times and Telegraph is behind pay walls. The figure refers to households rather than individuals, but the figure is rising rapidly, which some commentators say is the result of a large cohort of asylum seekers completing processing and becoming eligible for universal credit etc. The figure is around what was saved by cuts in winter fuel payments. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:47 - May 31 with 719 views | trampie |
| Immigration Costs an example on 17:24 - May 17 by Scotia |
We need to significantly reduce the welfare bill and people who can work must work even if it's doing something they don't want to do. The problem is that's not a vote winner. Means testing the winter fuel allowance is absolutely correct, but the bar may have been set too low.
The amount of savings you can have and still get benefits is bonkers too. £16k in some cases. Nobody with £16k in the bank needs handouts paid for by the taxpayer.
Perhaps if we could cut the welfare bill the government could contribute to an increase in the minimum wage? |
Ive heard it said that means testing can cost more than not means testing (in certain cases) and just giving a benefit across the board. [Post edited 31 May 7:57]
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| Immigration Costs an example on 11:33 - May 31 with 658 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 07:47 - May 31 by trampie |
Ive heard it said that means testing can cost more than not means testing (in certain cases) and just giving a benefit across the board. [Post edited 31 May 7:57]
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I think it may cost more in the first few years because they are playing catch up, so to speak. Once people got used to it and new claimants were tested straight away costs would fall and money would be saved, I think.
Part of the problem is, the system is so convoluted and flawed and it doesn't seem to matter what your situation is, it all depends on the person you deal with. As a result people have learned to lie, exaggerate and obfuscate to ensure they get benefits.
Examples of how stupid the system is are many. I had personal experience of this when I had health issues and claimed PIP, my claim was allowed and for about 3 years I got the reduced rate payment, then I started to to improve, after an operation and some treatment my health got better, I started applying for jobs and told the benefits office I no longer needed PIp money. I got a letter back saying they needed to assess me before stopping payments, from my reporting to then having an appointment with an assessor was roughly 6 months, it took them 2 months to answer my first letter. In that time I received roughly 2.5k and did I have tto poay it back? Nope.
It's a nonsense, no wonder the country is broke. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 12:03 - May 31 with 655 views | Dr_Winston |
PIP is in vast need of an overhaul. It's the only one of the "big" benefits (UC, ESA, JSA, PIP) that you can't claim online. They are very hard to get hold of, and it takes forever to make changes. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 11:20 - Jun 1 with 587 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 17:24 - May 17 by Scotia |
We need to significantly reduce the welfare bill and people who can work must work even if it's doing something they don't want to do. The problem is that's not a vote winner. Means testing the winter fuel allowance is absolutely correct, but the bar may have been set too low.
The amount of savings you can have and still get benefits is bonkers too. £16k in some cases. Nobody with £16k in the bank needs handouts paid for by the taxpayer.
Perhaps if we could cut the welfare bill the government could contribute to an increase in the minimum wage? |
The welfare bill is not the problem, tax evasion is | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:49 - Jun 1 with 562 views | Gwyn737 |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:20 - Jun 1 by controversial_jack |
The welfare bill is not the problem, tax evasion is |
They both are. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 13:21 - Jun 1 with 514 views | trampie |
| Immigration Costs an example on 11:49 - Jun 1 by Gwyn737 |
They both are. |
Tax evasion costs the country far more than benefit fraud, one headline I seen said 15 times more although i have seen other figures like 100 times more which apparently was incorrect, whatever the multipler its not even in the same ball park. | |
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| Immigration Costs an example on 13:45 - Jun 1 with 491 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 13:21 - Jun 1 by trampie |
Tax evasion costs the country far more than benefit fraud, one headline I seen said 15 times more although i have seen other figures like 100 times more which apparently was incorrect, whatever the multipler its not even in the same ball park. |
That is true and both things need looking at, as I've said to another poster many times, just because something is worse it doesn;'t mean th firt thing shouldn't be complained about.
Tax evasion/avoidance, benefit fraud, all of it needs to be investiagted, punished and stopped.
The government always go after the easy target though because the rich who avoid tax have expensive lawyers. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:02 - Jun 1 with 477 views | Scotia |
| Immigration Costs an example on 13:21 - Jun 1 by trampie |
Tax evasion costs the country far more than benefit fraud, one headline I seen said 15 times more although i have seen other figures like 100 times more which apparently was incorrect, whatever the multipler its not even in the same ball park. |
The stats don't say that, it's about 5.5 billion for tax evasion and 8.5 billion for benefit fraud and error.
It's outside of benefit fraud that needs to be looked at too, some people do not need the benefits they get whether entitled to them or not. Others get far too much money too.
Benefits should be an absolute last resort and only paid to those who need them and for as short a time as possible. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:20 - Jun 1 with 470 views | controversial_jack |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:02 - Jun 1 by Scotia |
The stats don't say that, it's about 5.5 billion for tax evasion and 8.5 billion for benefit fraud and error.
It's outside of benefit fraud that needs to be looked at too, some people do not need the benefits they get whether entitled to them or not. Others get far too much money too.
Benefits should be an absolute last resort and only paid to those who need them and for as short a time as possible. |
It's not. Tax avoidance/ evasion totally eclipses benefit fraud
https://dorseteye.com/tax-fraud-versus-benefit-fraud/ | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:31 - Jun 1 with 458 views | Scotia |
I'm not talking about tax avoidance. | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:37 - Jun 1 with 447 views | Whiterockin |
There is a massive difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. One is illegal one is not. |  | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 15:08 - Jun 1 with 408 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Immigration Costs an example on 14:37 - Jun 1 by Whiterockin |
There is a massive difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. One is illegal one is not. |
Tax avoidance can only happen because the government leaves loopholes in the laws, deliberately in my opinion. The loopholes are written in to help their rich friends whom they rarely go after but benefits fraud is always on the list of crackdowns.
Avoidance and evasion cost nearly 40 billion but apparently only in theory, from fullfact...
Finally, the post claims that “tax avoidance and evasion costs the country around 100 times more than benefit fraud”.
This is also not correct. His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) estimates that the tax gap—the difference between the amount the government collects in tax revenue and the amount it should in theory collect—in the 2022/23 financial year was £39.8 billion, the most recent data shows.
This is approximately six times higher than the amount in benefits overpaid due to fraud over the same period.
Of the total tax gap, an estimated £5.5 billion was due to tax evasion (illegal non-payment or underpayment of tax), with £1.8 billion due to tax avoidance (avoiding paying tax through schemes that operate “within the letter, but not the spirit, of the law”). | | | |
| Immigration Costs an example on 15:15 - Jun 1 with 397 views | Whiterockin |
| Immigration Costs an example on 15:08 - Jun 1 by SullutaCreturned |
Tax avoidance can only happen because the government leaves loopholes in the laws, deliberately in my opinion. The loopholes are written in to help their rich friends whom they rarely go after but benefits fraud is always on the list of crackdowns.
Avoidance and evasion cost nearly 40 billion but apparently only in theory, from fullfact...
Finally, the post claims that “tax avoidance and evasion costs the country around 100 times more than benefit fraud”.
This is also not correct. His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) estimates that the tax gap—the difference between the amount the government collects in tax revenue and the amount it should in theory collect—in the 2022/23 financial year was £39.8 billion, the most recent data shows.
This is approximately six times higher than the amount in benefits overpaid due to fraud over the same period.
Of the total tax gap, an estimated £5.5 billion was due to tax evasion (illegal non-payment or underpayment of tax), with £1.8 billion due to tax avoidance (avoiding paying tax through schemes that operate “within the letter, but not the spirit, of the law”). |
It's not only the wealthy who legally try to minimise their tax liabilities. Anyone getting older who own property or/and have assets should take advice on how to avoid paying more tax than they need too. I have and for my families sake I'm really glad I have. | | | |
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