| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:43 - Mar 14 with 9601 views | TalkingSutty |
Thanks for the update. Sounds like a lot of talk but not much meat on the bones from WSH. Are they actually going to be running the Club? It sounds like nobody knows the answer to that. Hopefully others have gleaned a lot more positives than I have. It seems as clear as mud and very convoluted. [Post edited 14 Mar 10:50]
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:54 - Mar 14 with 9537 views | Sandyman |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:43 - Mar 14 by TalkingSutty |
Thanks for the update. Sounds like a lot of talk but not much meat on the bones from WSH. Are they actually going to be running the Club? It sounds like nobody knows the answer to that. Hopefully others have gleaned a lot more positives than I have. It seems as clear as mud and very convoluted. [Post edited 14 Mar 10:50]
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..and no cast iron guarantees about where the money is coming from. |  | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:58 - Mar 14 with 9497 views | Nafelad |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:43 - Mar 14 by TalkingSutty |
Thanks for the update. Sounds like a lot of talk but not much meat on the bones from WSH. Are they actually going to be running the Club? It sounds like nobody knows the answer to that. Hopefully others have gleaned a lot more positives than I have. It seems as clear as mud and very convoluted. [Post edited 14 Mar 10:50]
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I agree. As simply fans and supporters, we've 'been in the dark' about how the club is run since pre-Covid times and we're no better off now. |  |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:04 - Mar 14 with 9459 views | TalkingSutty |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:54 - Mar 14 by Sandyman |
..and no cast iron guarantees about where the money is coming from. |
Exactly...and we have a Chairman with a thirst to sell the club under those circumstances it would appear. You can't sell the club without proof of where the money has come from, not in a era were money laundering and people with bad intentions seem to go hand in hand with trying to aquire football clubs. As a club we know that better than anybody and so does the Chairman. Ignorance isn't a defence neither. As shareholders it's incumbent on us all to ensure things are done in the correct manner and that also includes the validity of last week's EGM. [Post edited 14 Mar 11:08]
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:08 - Mar 14 with 9434 views | Brierls |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:43 - Mar 14 by TalkingSutty |
Thanks for the update. Sounds like a lot of talk but not much meat on the bones from WSH. Are they actually going to be running the Club? It sounds like nobody knows the answer to that. Hopefully others have gleaned a lot more positives than I have. It seems as clear as mud and very convoluted. [Post edited 14 Mar 10:50]
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We're in agreement on this bit! The meeting has raised more questions than answers, despite some positive stuff in there about the man in charge at WSH.
The biggest pull of WSH, for me, was the "been there and done it" element with MVV Maastricht. It may just be the wording, but I'm not convinced we'd have the same group of people running or even inputting on Dale.
WSH manage the interest for as yet unnamed investors, who may or may not want a more hands on role in running the club. That's clear as mud.
Ongoing investment beyond the initial pot to purchase and run, is something being worked on, not something that is in place.
Positive/Negative - nobody among the non-playing staff will be losing their job, and there is a recognition that additional staff are required to drive revenue. Continuity is crucial, but what does that mean for the boardroom?
It could be the same situation with other investors, I suspect it's a common model, but I'm not as comfortable as I was hoping after the meeting. Admittedly, my interpretation could also be way off. |  | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:10 - Mar 14 with 9399 views | rochdale1987 |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 10:43 - Mar 14 by TalkingSutty |
Thanks for the update. Sounds like a lot of talk but not much meat on the bones from WSH. Are they actually going to be running the Club? It sounds like nobody knows the answer to that. Hopefully others have gleaned a lot more positives than I have. It seems as clear as mud and very convoluted. [Post edited 14 Mar 10:50]
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There has been some talk floating about of SG staying on if this deal goes through, which would be disastrous, not only for the future of the club, but also will continue to divide the fan base, if they won't actually be running the club, let's hope and pray it's not who has been running it into the ground for the last few years. This article on the meeting gives me very little confidence. |  | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:19 - Mar 14 with 9316 views | fitzochris |
Forgive me, but I always prefer to cut to the facts.
If I have read this correctly, there are, as it stands, no funds in place?
And WSH don't actually own the stake in Maastricht but other investors that they represent do?
These are important points if correct. |  |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:19 - Mar 14 with 9314 views | Sandyman |
FYI: From national league rules: Transfer as a Going Concern
2.9.1 In the event that any Club which resolves to transfer its membership of the Competition from one legal entity to a different legal entity, other than in the circumstances shown at 2.9.2 below, the Board will use the following minimum criteria in deciding whether to approve that transfer:
(a) The shareholders or members of the Club have voted to agree to the transfer of the Club’s membership to the new entity.
(b) All Football Creditors in the Club must be paid in full or transferred in full (with each creditor’s consent) to the new entity, and evidenced as such.
(c) All other creditors in the Club must be paid in full or Secured or transferred in full (with each creditor’s consent) to the new entity and evidenced as such.
(d) The proposed new entity has provided financial forecasts to The FA and the Competition showing its ability to fund the Club for the next twelve (12) months or to the end of the Playing Season following transfer (whichever is the longer) and that evidence of funding sources has been provided.
(e) The FA must have given approval for the transfer to take place. | | | |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:23 - Mar 14 with 9286 views | Brierls |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:19 - Mar 14 by fitzochris |
Forgive me, but I always prefer to cut to the facts.
If I have read this correctly, there are, as it stands, no funds in place?
And WSH don't actually own the stake in Maastricht but other investors that they represent do?
These are important points if correct. |
I read it as a) funds are in place for the purchase and initial running costs, from investors who would be made public on completion, b) ongoing investment is required but not yet secured. | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:25 - Mar 14 with 9255 views | wozzrafc |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:19 - Mar 14 by fitzochris |
Forgive me, but I always prefer to cut to the facts.
If I have read this correctly, there are, as it stands, no funds in place?
And WSH don't actually own the stake in Maastricht but other investors that they represent do?
These are important points if correct. |
Dutch soccer holdings own Maastricht which Scott dyer is a director.
It sounds like WSH find the opportunity and then put together the investment to fund the proposals [Post edited 14 Mar 11:28]
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:30 - Mar 14 with 9212 views | TalkingSutty |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:19 - Mar 14 by Sandyman |
FYI: From national league rules: Transfer as a Going Concern
2.9.1 In the event that any Club which resolves to transfer its membership of the Competition from one legal entity to a different legal entity, other than in the circumstances shown at 2.9.2 below, the Board will use the following minimum criteria in deciding whether to approve that transfer:
(a) The shareholders or members of the Club have voted to agree to the transfer of the Club’s membership to the new entity.
(b) All Football Creditors in the Club must be paid in full or transferred in full (with each creditor’s consent) to the new entity, and evidenced as such.
(c) All other creditors in the Club must be paid in full or Secured or transferred in full (with each creditor’s consent) to the new entity and evidenced as such.
(d) The proposed new entity has provided financial forecasts to The FA and the Competition showing its ability to fund the Club for the next twelve (12) months or to the end of the Playing Season following transfer (whichever is the longer) and that evidence of funding sources has been provided.
(e) The FA must have given approval for the transfer to take place. |
I think it's about time we stopped all this pussy footing around with the Chairman and called a EGM to remove him from post. He must think we're daft, he's bothered about his investment and is prioritising that over the club. Look how he addressed the shareholders last week, what a absolute disgrace. Others are also involved with the Chairman and will be ready with their snouts at the trough, the silence from the Boardroom and the likes of Andrew Kelly etc speaks volumes. Its time the Trust/ sharehokders and supporters started fighting for our club instead of leaving it to the likes of Simon Gauge. They'll sell out the club to whoever suits their agenda if we let them. The Chairman isn't fit for purpose and he never has been, that's the bottom line. | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:30 - Mar 14 with 9209 views | fitzochris |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:23 - Mar 14 by Brierls |
I read it as a) funds are in place for the purchase and initial running costs, from investors who would be made public on completion, b) ongoing investment is required but not yet secured. |
I think it needs clarifying.
Even if your interpretation is correct - that ongoing investment is not yet secured or guaranteed - it is even more vital to see what other interested parties can gaurantee in that regard.
The last thing we need is to be here again when initial investment runs out, only with less say in what happens next. | |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:34 - Mar 14 with 9173 views | diplodocus |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:19 - Mar 14 by fitzochris |
Forgive me, but I always prefer to cut to the facts.
If I have read this correctly, there are, as it stands, no funds in place?
And WSH don't actually own the stake in Maastricht but other investors that they represent do?
These are important points if correct. |
so that infers that WSH are 'stalking horses' which does not bode well for the club. | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:34 - Mar 14 with 9173 views | D_Alien |
When details of the WSH involvement with Maastricht appeared on here, my first reaction was "Dutch Soccer Holdings" ?
This confirms that WSH is some kind of parent company, not the actual people we'd be dealing with. If that's not correct, then it certainly needs to be clarified
We need to see what the other lot bring to the table, although tbf, their published LOI goes some way towards that. They certainly need to be given a competitive chance and i really don't buy the impression being put about that WSH having their LOI in first should be some kind of "hey guys, this is business" advantage
The ONLY things that matter are 1) transparency and 2) resources |  |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:36 - Mar 14 with 9159 views | Brierls |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:30 - Mar 14 by fitzochris |
I think it needs clarifying.
Even if your interpretation is correct - that ongoing investment is not yet secured or guaranteed - it is even more vital to see what other interested parties can gaurantee in that regard.
The last thing we need is to be here again when initial investment runs out, only with less say in what happens next. |
Completely agree with everything you've said there.
There may have been a lot more detail disclosed that is not for public consumption (yet), but there's some serious questions that remain unanswered.
There is clearly money there (I suspect not from family and friends this time) as Dutch Soccer Holdings are looking to purchase 90%+ of MVV Maastricht, but surely secured funding has to be in place for now and x years into the future. | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:36 - Mar 14 with 9160 views | surb_dale |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:25 - Mar 14 by wozzrafc |
Dutch soccer holdings own Maastricht which Scott dyer is a director.
It sounds like WSH find the opportunity and then put together the investment to fund the proposals [Post edited 14 Mar 11:28]
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That does seem to be the case and it doesnt sound that a specific investor is lined up yet so i find hard to believe a takeover can be completed with sufficient due diligence by end of the month. You have to wonder why we seem to have put all our eggs in this one basket with WSH in that case. How long is this 'short' period of exclusivity that weve agreed to with them i wonder.
To me our chances of liquidation/administration have increased somewhat based on that. | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:37 - Mar 14 with 9154 views | wozzrafc |
This bit is interesting:
“ Scott is seen as the relationship builder on behalf of investors and looks to attract passive investors in schemes he is involved in, although some he is talking to may wish to be more hands on, as their investment may be more significant.
If a sale were to go through, then the ownership company would be revealed. It will not be WSH LLC.”
Then further on
“ . In seeking to understand the type of investor that would be happy to invest in a perennial loss maker in a poor area with heavy and glamorous competition locally, Scott described them as being patient and understanding that a minimum term of 5 years + were to be expected before any return may happen. Additionally, he advised that they may be asked for further investment in order togenerate a return.”
At the fans forum I seemed to recall the board saying there were other parties who were involved in football clubs that are part of the WSH bid but don’t want to be named. I wonder if there are other people involved but the trust haven’t been told as it’s not nailed down yet?
It’s not to say they don’t have a plan in place but seems to still be formulating. | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:39 - Mar 14 with 9137 views | fitzochris |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:34 - Mar 14 by diplodocus |
so that infers that WSH are 'stalking horses' which does not bode well for the club. |
Not at all. I am not for one second suggesting there is anything nefarious about WSH at all, I just want clarity on my interpretation of the summary provided (which may well be wrong btw). From the summary, their intent - stemming from their own beliefs - seems very noble. | |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:43 - Mar 14 with 9109 views | diplodocus |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:36 - Mar 14 by surb_dale |
That does seem to be the case and it doesnt sound that a specific investor is lined up yet so i find hard to believe a takeover can be completed with sufficient due diligence by end of the month. You have to wonder why we seem to have put all our eggs in this one basket with WSH in that case. How long is this 'short' period of exclusivity that weve agreed to with them i wonder.
To me our chances of liquidation/administration have increased somewhat based on that. |
If its 'admin' thats minus ten points: will the points loss which was deferred from a couple of years ago be added on (meaning defo relegation) and who would want to 'buy' us then?  | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:43 - Mar 14 with 9102 views | Brierls |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:37 - Mar 14 by wozzrafc |
This bit is interesting:
“ Scott is seen as the relationship builder on behalf of investors and looks to attract passive investors in schemes he is involved in, although some he is talking to may wish to be more hands on, as their investment may be more significant.
If a sale were to go through, then the ownership company would be revealed. It will not be WSH LLC.”
Then further on
“ . In seeking to understand the type of investor that would be happy to invest in a perennial loss maker in a poor area with heavy and glamorous competition locally, Scott described them as being patient and understanding that a minimum term of 5 years + were to be expected before any return may happen. Additionally, he advised that they may be asked for further investment in order togenerate a return.”
At the fans forum I seemed to recall the board saying there were other parties who were involved in football clubs that are part of the WSH bid but don’t want to be named. I wonder if there are other people involved but the trust haven’t been told as it’s not nailed down yet?
It’s not to say they don’t have a plan in place but seems to still be formulating. |
"If a sale were to go through, then the ownership company would be revealed. It will not be WSH LLC."
I'm not alarmed by it not being WSH LLC as they did the same at MVV Maastricht with 'Dutch Soccer Holdings'.
I'm more interested in the running of the club. If MVV Maastricht have been well run on a sustainable plan with a future, which they appear to be, are the same people and plan going to be in place at Dale? | | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:47 - Mar 14 with 9067 views | D_Alien |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 11:37 - Mar 14 by wozzrafc |
This bit is interesting:
“ Scott is seen as the relationship builder on behalf of investors and looks to attract passive investors in schemes he is involved in, although some he is talking to may wish to be more hands on, as their investment may be more significant.
If a sale were to go through, then the ownership company would be revealed. It will not be WSH LLC.”
Then further on
“ . In seeking to understand the type of investor that would be happy to invest in a perennial loss maker in a poor area with heavy and glamorous competition locally, Scott described them as being patient and understanding that a minimum term of 5 years + were to be expected before any return may happen. Additionally, he advised that they may be asked for further investment in order togenerate a return.”
At the fans forum I seemed to recall the board saying there were other parties who were involved in football clubs that are part of the WSH bid but don’t want to be named. I wonder if there are other people involved but the trust haven’t been told as it’s not nailed down yet?
It’s not to say they don’t have a plan in place but seems to still be formulating. |
I'd like to hear what "a return" [on their investment] looks like to them
[Post edited 14 Mar 11:55]
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 12:04 - Mar 14 with 8929 views | 49thseason |
It sounds like WSH is a management company and that each club they are invested in is placed in a separate company with possibly different investors. This would be sensible if there were a) an intention at some point to sell the club or b) to insulate other clubs under management from the repercussions of a club ultimately going out of business despite the new investment.
To be pragmatic, the club has to be sold, there is no real alternative that we are aware of. Repeated claims about the Board and particularly the Chairman make zero difference to the situation and are probably a distraction. There is no point in the blame game, it will change nothing now or in the future. Whoever buys the club will call the shots and will decide what is important and what isnt. Whatever people want to say will make zero difference to the outcome.
For me, the encouraging bit is that WHS come with enthusiasm and can-do attitude, they clearly have financial connections and the pool of sports investors is far bigger in the US than anywhere else in the world. By spreading the financial burden, they also mitigate the dangers of a single investor. They also admit that they are in for a minimum of 5 years to turn around the club's fortunes and start making money on their investment.
At this moment, (to pinch a Jimism), we are out of options and up against a very tight deadline with one foot in the crematorium. Close the deal, worry about the long term next season or the season after, everything else is irrelevant... |  | | |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 12:13 - Mar 14 with 8861 views | rochedale |
At least they’re Christians 🙄 |  |
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 12:16 - Mar 14 with 8833 views | SuddenLad |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 12:04 - Mar 14 by 49thseason |
It sounds like WSH is a management company and that each club they are invested in is placed in a separate company with possibly different investors. This would be sensible if there were a) an intention at some point to sell the club or b) to insulate other clubs under management from the repercussions of a club ultimately going out of business despite the new investment.
To be pragmatic, the club has to be sold, there is no real alternative that we are aware of. Repeated claims about the Board and particularly the Chairman make zero difference to the situation and are probably a distraction. There is no point in the blame game, it will change nothing now or in the future. Whoever buys the club will call the shots and will decide what is important and what isnt. Whatever people want to say will make zero difference to the outcome.
For me, the encouraging bit is that WHS come with enthusiasm and can-do attitude, they clearly have financial connections and the pool of sports investors is far bigger in the US than anywhere else in the world. By spreading the financial burden, they also mitigate the dangers of a single investor. They also admit that they are in for a minimum of 5 years to turn around the club's fortunes and start making money on their investment.
At this moment, (to pinch a Jimism), we are out of options and up against a very tight deadline with one foot in the crematorium. Close the deal, worry about the long term next season or the season after, everything else is irrelevant... |
There is a second bidder who have submitted a LOI. We now need to know what they offer, how they propose to invest in the club and compare the two.
The club comes first. Always. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 12:21 - Mar 14 with 8786 views | Brierls |
| Dale Trust Meeting With WSH LLC on 12:04 - Mar 14 by 49thseason |
It sounds like WSH is a management company and that each club they are invested in is placed in a separate company with possibly different investors. This would be sensible if there were a) an intention at some point to sell the club or b) to insulate other clubs under management from the repercussions of a club ultimately going out of business despite the new investment.
To be pragmatic, the club has to be sold, there is no real alternative that we are aware of. Repeated claims about the Board and particularly the Chairman make zero difference to the situation and are probably a distraction. There is no point in the blame game, it will change nothing now or in the future. Whoever buys the club will call the shots and will decide what is important and what isnt. Whatever people want to say will make zero difference to the outcome.
For me, the encouraging bit is that WHS come with enthusiasm and can-do attitude, they clearly have financial connections and the pool of sports investors is far bigger in the US than anywhere else in the world. By spreading the financial burden, they also mitigate the dangers of a single investor. They also admit that they are in for a minimum of 5 years to turn around the club's fortunes and start making money on their investment.
At this moment, (to pinch a Jimism), we are out of options and up against a very tight deadline with one foot in the crematorium. Close the deal, worry about the long term next season or the season after, everything else is irrelevant... |
Agreed with most of that until "close the deal...".
While your points on urgency are spot on, we should be aiming to "close a deal...", which may or may not be the WSH deal. | | | |
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