| US/UK/EU - the way forward 14:14 - Mar 4 with 1989 views | johnlangy |
Donald Trump is going to be POTUS for the next four years and if his policies are still popular in America at the end of that time it may very well be that a Republican (Vance ?) will replace him. And that person will probably continue in a similar vein.
So what should the UK do now ?
At the moment the UK is stuck in the middle trying to balance keeping the US onside while doing the same thing with the EU. That applies with trade as well as the Ukraine problem.
In my opinion we should, while carrying on being diplomatically onside with the US, accept that in the long run our future is better served by accepting we are part of Europe (not the EU) and work toward better relations with the EU.
If we engage with the US on trade we know that they will ALWAYS, especially if it's a Trump/Vance Republican administration, ensure that the US wins the (Trade) war. They will use their size and might to ensure that happens because they hold all the cards, to use a currently popular phrase. |  | | |  |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 16:36 - Mar 4 with 1928 views | majorraglan |
Based on what we’ve seen so far, I’d agree with a lot of your comments.
We’ll have to wait and see how things pan out in the US, but the Republicans and their allies have played a blinder while the Democrats have had a mare.
Musk bought Twitter and calls the tunes on Social Media, that’s a huge weapon in the disinformation arsenal. Biden has been much criticised in the media, by Trump etc and his backers and deemed by many to be unfit for office, the Democrats then turned to Harris who has also been heavily criticsed and but more importantly didn’t command enough support.
The Democrats need to find a new candidate if they want to have a serious run at JDVance next time out, they need someone who is clean cut, has integrity, straight (I’m not being homophonic just pointing out that to command the level of support to win the election in the US they need to attract support from across large parts of the US which as a country can be very bigoted) and be able to appeal to the masses from the white, black and Hispanic communities. That’s a big ask - and with so many of the wealthy pumping cash in to GOP getting the message across is a tough ask. [Post edited 4 Mar 17:40]
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:35 - Mar 4 with 1854 views | Flashberryjack |
We are stuck between to evils, Bully boy Trump and the EU.
Trump will do what he sees is best for the USA and doesn't give a stuff about the UK, whilst the EU will try to stuff us at every opportunity. |  |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:44 - Mar 4 with 1845 views | johnlangy |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:35 - Mar 4 by Flashberryjack |
We are stuck between to evils, Bully boy Trump and the EU.
Trump will do what he sees is best for the USA and doesn't give a stuff about the UK, whilst the EU will try to stuff us at every opportunity. |
I accept that the EU will do what's best for the EU same as America will. And the same as the UK will.
The difference is that what's good for the EU, in the case of Ukraine for one, is the same as what's best for the UK. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 19:43 - Mar 4 with 1818 views | Kilkennyjack |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:44 - Mar 4 by johnlangy |
I accept that the EU will do what's best for the EU same as America will. And the same as the UK will.
The difference is that what's good for the EU, in the case of Ukraine for one, is the same as what's best for the UK. |
Of course we should be inside of the EU and inside a properly funded Euro defence force.
Trump cant be trusted. The end. |  |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 01:02 - Mar 5 with 1723 views | Robbie |
My first impression of JD Vance in that circus of the live TV broadcast last week will never make me feel easy for the outcome of Ukraine , Its victims and Independence .
The Don holds all the cards now in this awful situation , play now or hold .
Poker faced reactions and up the chips on the who gives first , a frightening scenario . | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:33 - Mar 5 with 1650 views | johnlangy |
Bearing in mind where we are at the moment with Europe starting a scramble to work together to re-arm and build up their individual armies imagine how great it would have been if 10/15/20 years ago a European army had been created.
Europe would have been in a much stronger position in dealing with Trump and Putin.. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 22:03 - Mar 5 with 1604 views | Kilkennyjack |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:33 - Mar 5 by johnlangy |
Bearing in mind where we are at the moment with Europe starting a scramble to work together to re-arm and build up their individual armies imagine how great it would have been if 10/15/20 years ago a European army had been created.
Europe would have been in a much stronger position in dealing with Trump and Putin.. |
Yes John - and Farage/Johnson picked the polar opposite route for the UK by telling a bunch of lies.
Should be jailed like any CEO who told lies would be. | |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:18 - Mar 6 with 1502 views | johnlangy |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:33 - Mar 5 by johnlangy |
Bearing in mind where we are at the moment with Europe starting a scramble to work together to re-arm and build up their individual armies imagine how great it would have been if 10/15/20 years ago a European army had been created.
Europe would have been in a much stronger position in dealing with Trump and Putin.. |
I'm very surprised that there haven't been a load of replies from brexiteers complaining about my praise for the idea of a European army.
We can still be part of one of course. We don't need to be part of the EU for that. Let's hope that happens soon. | | | |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 19:57 - Mar 6 with 1463 views | Whiterockin |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:35 - Mar 4 by Flashberryjack |
We are stuck between to evils, Bully boy Trump and the EU.
Trump will do what he sees is best for the USA and doesn't give a stuff about the UK, whilst the EU will try to stuff us at every opportunity. |
Imagine if we had politicians who did the best for us. Stuff Europe, stuff the USA, stuff the rest of the World and trying to set an example with global warming. Just look after the good old UK for a change and let the others come cap in hand to us. We should stop thinking we are inferior, we are not. |  | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 23:20 - Mar 6 with 1377 views | majorraglan |
Trump is tonight rowing back on the issue of tariffs albeit on a temporary basis. He is seemingly applying the pressure and making threats, but then pulling back. Is he bluffing people to get his own way and then realising there are consequences and then balking? I genuinely don’t know, but he’s c certainly annoyed by Trudeau and the Canadians who’ve met tariffs with tariffs.
Trump recently slammed the 2020 Mexico, US and Canada trade deal which he perceived to be unfair to the US, “I look at some of these agreements, I’d read them at night, and I’d say, ‘Who would ever sign a thing like this?’ - well the answer to the question is Trump himself!!!!
The UK and US have traditionally been close allies, but that looks over for the time being as Trump is seemingly very unreliable and potentially a loose cannon. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 23:28 - Mar 6 with 1375 views | scruffyjack |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:18 - Mar 6 by johnlangy |
I'm very surprised that there haven't been a load of replies from brexiteers complaining about my praise for the idea of a European army.
We can still be part of one of course. We don't need to be part of the EU for that. Let's hope that happens soon. |
Without the US, we more or less have a European army, plus Canada, in NATO. Under Trump we can no longer rely on their support and as recent meetings have shown Europe has woken up. Not a moment too soon. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 09:54 - Mar 7 with 1270 views | controversial_jack |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 01:02 - Mar 5 by Robbie |
My first impression of JD Vance in that circus of the live TV broadcast last week will never make me feel easy for the outcome of Ukraine , Its victims and Independence .
The Don holds all the cards now in this awful situation , play now or hold .
Poker faced reactions and up the chips on the who gives first , a frightening scenario . |
Nope, Putin holds all the cards. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 12:09 - Apr 16 with 490 views | johnlangy |
Rather than start another thread on the subject I thought i'd revive this one.
What a difference in six weeks. Trumps tariffs on us as with everyone else and now China with the debacle of the Scunthorpe steelworks and their apparent ploy to essentially destroy our steel industry.
There are three real major economies in the world. That's the US, China and the EU. And the EU is still bigger than China even without the UK's £2.7 trillion or so. Which one should we get closer to ?
Definitely not China. I think everyone would agree with that. And the incredible chaos surrounding the US over the last few weeks means that we should be ultra careful with any deal with them because they will be in the driving seat with an economy ten times the size of ours. I don't think anyone can trust Trump. He could sign a deal with the UK and then rip it up any time he feels he can do better.
So that leaves the EU. There is no question, in my opinion, that we should build closer trading ties with the EU. And the government are negotiating a new trading arrangement as we speak. The sooner that is agreed and signed the better. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 12:52 - Apr 16 with 441 views | AnotherJohn |
I'd say that we should still keep our options open and make a decision based on what emerges from the two sets of negotiations. The apparent convergence of interests on defence made me initially favour Europe, but then fish and youth mobility were thrown in as conditions for letting the UK help produce the armaments to be funded from the muted European shared defence fund. This illustrates a wider problem of rivalries and differences between EU member states, compared with the approach coming from a unified USA. If the US offered a good trade deal, in part as a way to keep the UK and EU apart, then that would be tempting, even if we had to hold our nose regarding other things, like the policy on Ukraine. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 12:56 - Apr 16 with 437 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:35 - Mar 4 by Flashberryjack |
We are stuck between to evils, Bully boy Trump and the EU.
Trump will do what he sees is best for the USA and doesn't give a stuff about the UK, whilst the EU will try to stuff us at every opportunity. |
You are still promoting fake Brexit rhetorical myths. UK accepted a pretty good deal with the EU around 2021 where the EU was very kind to UK in fact.
What tarrifs do EU citizens need to pay for British goods ? Zero it is effectively free trade. The problem for traders is the excessive paperwork required not tarrifs. UK traded have to prove UK is not a transit point for Chinese products. Rules of origin.
UK citizens were well bored of Brexit and Covid came when the deal was made.
"EU will try to stuff us at every opportunity" is a Boris Farage fabrication.
AI
"Yes, there are tariffs on UK goods entering the EU, but only if those goods don't meet the specific rules of origin within the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA). The TCA, which went into effect on January 1, 2021, establishes zero tariffs for trade between the UK and EU, provided the goods meet the rules of origin requirements." [Post edited 16 Apr 12:58]
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 13:01 - Apr 16 with 425 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 01:02 - Mar 5 by Robbie |
My first impression of JD Vance in that circus of the live TV broadcast last week will never make me feel easy for the outcome of Ukraine , Its victims and Independence .
The Don holds all the cards now in this awful situation , play now or hold .
Poker faced reactions and up the chips on the who gives first , a frightening scenario . |
In 18 months the US people will presumably give Trump a kicking in elections. He nay need a war to distract people from his wretched performance.
Most people can see he is doing a very poor job. | |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 14:05 - Apr 16 with 387 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Well the USA has to do something, they've been selling US Treasury Bonds at an alarm rate in recent years. China now holds 750 Billion worth of them. The comparative strength of the dollar has hollowed out US manufacturing, making things overseas is so much cheaper.
With do much debt the US is at risk of an economic meltdown if borrowing costs spike. Trump may be the wrong front man but something has to change for the USA. |  |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 15:02 - Apr 16 with 374 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 14:05 - Apr 16 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Well the USA has to do something, they've been selling US Treasury Bonds at an alarm rate in recent years. China now holds 750 Billion worth of them. The comparative strength of the dollar has hollowed out US manufacturing, making things overseas is so much cheaper.
With do much debt the US is at risk of an economic meltdown if borrowing costs spike. Trump may be the wrong front man but something has to change for the USA. |
Comparative wages is a problem for the west. The West are hypocritical in some aspects. "Duty of care" is not a defining principle of UK. We sand our plastic waste and do not even check it is being processed as agreed.
We cannot scrap our own ships because of the costs of doing it safely so we send our shape to India or Turkiye where they have lax standards.
Our energy is too expensive so import foreign oil and coal is cheaper and dirtier. UK should subsidised big employers using big energy and big employers . | |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 18:13 - Apr 16 with 347 views | SullutaCreturned |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 19:43 - Mar 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Of course we should be inside of the EU and inside a properly funded Euro defence force.
Trump cant be trusted. The end. |
We don't need to be in the EU to be part of an Europe wide defence force. As I have already said we should tell Trump we're not their poodles anymore and have serious talks with the EU about a better deal and a Europe only NATO style group.
Tell Trump where to go because he doesn't do subtle and thinks anybody who doesn't speak plainly is easy to push around, say goodbye USA, see you when the POTUS is a bit improved. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 22:36 - Apr 16 with 295 views | EagleEye |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 13:01 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
In 18 months the US people will presumably give Trump a kicking in elections. He nay need a war to distract people from his wretched performance.
Most people can see he is doing a very poor job. |
Most people can see he is doing a very poor job, except more than half of US citizens and that’s all that counts |  | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 22:44 - Apr 16 with 293 views | majorraglan |
In answer to the original question, we should try to retain good relationships with all the trading the blocs, however if push come to shove i think we should align ourselves closer with the EU. It’s far from a perfect institution, but I think it’s a better bet than the US which, under Trump is very unpredictable. Trump signed the Canada Mexico US free trade deal in 2019 and claimed it was the best deal ever etc etc, 5 years later he’s renegaded on it! He’s changing his mind every couple of days and some of the policies are incoherent. What I would say is that I don’t believe this starts and finishes with Trump, I think he’s got a massive amount of support from the ultra rich and far right of the US, there’s a lot of vested interests supporting Trump - it’s not just him.
Trump, quite naturally has an America first agenda and I commend that, all governments should have their own people at the forefront of their agenda, however there also has to be given and take and cooperation amongst countries and that’s is short supply at the moment. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 08:05 - Apr 17 with 237 views | felixstowe_jack |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 19:43 - Mar 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Of course we should be inside of the EU and inside a properly funded Euro defence force.
Trump cant be trusted. The end. |
Of course we should be outside the undemocratic EU.
They are a trade cartel completely opposed to free trade unless it is within their cartel.
The majority of the UK, including Wales, sensibly voted to leave this undemocratic bod. The EU is stagnating.
The EU does not and never has had a defence force
Thankfully NATO has more or less kept peace in Europe since the last World War. Most of the trouble in Europe has been in ex communist countries like Yugoslavia and the ex Soviet bloc countries who wanted independence from Russia.
I agree with you the EU countries, who are part of NATO, need to pay their full share of NATO costs | |
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| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 10:12 - Apr 17 with 226 views | johnlangy |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 08:05 - Apr 17 by felixstowe_jack |
Of course we should be outside the undemocratic EU.
They are a trade cartel completely opposed to free trade unless it is within their cartel.
The majority of the UK, including Wales, sensibly voted to leave this undemocratic bod. The EU is stagnating.
The EU does not and never has had a defence force
Thankfully NATO has more or less kept peace in Europe since the last World War. Most of the trouble in Europe has been in ex communist countries like Yugoslavia and the ex Soviet bloc countries who wanted independence from Russia.
I agree with you the EU countries, who are part of NATO, need to pay their full share of NATO costs |
Your last para felix is one of the few good things to come out of Trumps policies. The absolute base figure they should be spending as members is 2% of GDP. Many don't and haven't for a long time. The UK always has done its bit.
When there was talk about European countries putting boots on the ground whether that be inside or outside of Ukraine one of the problems highlighted was that they don't all use the same comms systems.
Even if a European army isn't the end result of this there are a number of areas where we should all agree that we need to coordinate. And comms is certainly one of them. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 15:04 - Apr 17 with 173 views | SullutaCreturned |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 10:12 - Apr 17 by johnlangy |
Your last para felix is one of the few good things to come out of Trumps policies. The absolute base figure they should be spending as members is 2% of GDP. Many don't and haven't for a long time. The UK always has done its bit.
When there was talk about European countries putting boots on the ground whether that be inside or outside of Ukraine one of the problems highlighted was that they don't all use the same comms systems.
Even if a European army isn't the end result of this there are a number of areas where we should all agree that we need to coordinate. And comms is certainly one of them. |
I was dead against the idea of an EU army but if every democratic European country wanted in and we said goodbye to NATO with the Americans left on their own then, the way things have gone, I think we'd have to back it 100%
Trump has shown that we cannot trust the USA anymore, he really is about MAGA and by any means.
It may even get to the point where we have boots on gtound in Greenland.
The USa has turned more extreme and also protectionist and isolationist, Europe now needs to look to itself. And for the UK that means opening good faith talks with the Eu about trade too. It doesn't have to mean membership but the EU has to do what is best for Europe too. | | | |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 15:25 - Apr 17 with 167 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| US/UK/EU - the way forward on 09:54 - Mar 7 by controversial_jack |
Nope, Putin holds all the cards. |
The Russians should be furious with him for leaving $300 billion in Europe s banks. That is a massive amount of money. $ 2000 for every citizen of Russian. Lavrov is furious about it. UK is using the interest on this money $2.3billion to aid Ukraine militarily recently.
I suspect they are holding this money either to force the next Russian leader to compromise or use it to rebuild destroyed cities and infrastructure such h as ths Kerkovka dam.
Putin's does not hold all the cards as the Ukrainian millirary are improving and Russia's is fading. | |
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