| The Real State Of Play... 20:57 - Dec 23 with 22847 views | Cleedale |
OK, haven't posted for possibly years and haven't actually been to a game for about a year, BUT, used to, quite regularly, even though living a long way away. Home & family together with other 'life stuff' has eaten into the bug I used to have and afraid it isn't the priority in my life it once was. However, it still hurts to see poor results.
So, without rabbiting forever, what's happening? Has the style of play been sussed by opps? Have we no longer the quality for Div 1 where I guess some mighty big budgets exist? Is Div 1 a difficult level to blood youngsters (btw, have seen the opportunities Dale give out in that area)?
Are we panicking yet? (I'd see relegation as something that must be avoided at all costs - well, not ALL costs)!
Or, are we just missing a couple of jigsaw pieces? Obviously a Jonah, Lambert, Dawson etc., I think we all know that Dale have had more than our fair share esp. in the last 10'ish years. |  | | |  |
| The Real State Of Play... on 10:19 - Dec 30 with 2615 views | hxdale |
Do players have opinions? If so do these players accept where they are being asked to play, eg Henderson midfield, done left back. Do they go to KH with their opinions or do they just go where they are asked to play. If they have opinions are they listened too? Does the captain have any impact in the system that is being played. Just wondering if players have impact on any decisions that they are being asked to play.If they discuss or have an opinion are they likely to end up on the bench?? |  | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 12:35 - Dec 30 with 2511 views | D_Alien |
| The Real State Of Play... on 10:19 - Dec 30 by hxdale |
Do players have opinions? If so do these players accept where they are being asked to play, eg Henderson midfield, done left back. Do they go to KH with their opinions or do they just go where they are asked to play. If they have opinions are they listened too? Does the captain have any impact in the system that is being played. Just wondering if players have impact on any decisions that they are being asked to play.If they discuss or have an opinion are they likely to end up on the bench?? |
The impact the players (any players, anywhere) will have on being asked to perform a role they're not comfortable with is to underperform - not deliberately, but that in itself will sap their morale
Whether that applies to Dale players right now is open to question, and you're right to do so
We can only look at performances, and the opinion of KH that "players aren't doing what he's asking them to do" |  |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 15:29 - Dec 30 with 2379 views | Nafelad |
| The Real State Of Play... on 12:35 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
The impact the players (any players, anywhere) will have on being asked to perform a role they're not comfortable with is to underperform - not deliberately, but that in itself will sap their morale
Whether that applies to Dale players right now is open to question, and you're right to do so
We can only look at performances, and the opinion of KH that "players aren't doing what he's asking them to do" |
Perhaps Hill should be coming to realise that players aren't capable of doing what he's asking them to do. |  |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:07 - Dec 30 with 2313 views | joecooke |
| The Real State Of Play... on 12:35 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
The impact the players (any players, anywhere) will have on being asked to perform a role they're not comfortable with is to underperform - not deliberately, but that in itself will sap their morale
Whether that applies to Dale players right now is open to question, and you're right to do so
We can only look at performances, and the opinion of KH that "players aren't doing what he's asking them to do" |
Professional footballers should be comfortable in more than one position at least in my opinion.
Probably the most difficult is asking a left footed full back to play right back or vice versa but generally a right winger to right back is becoming the norm these days.
I understand that they may not be totally comfortable with it but that is no excuse really if they are training in that position prior to being asked to play that position in a match. |  |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:29 - Dec 30 with 2277 views | D_Alien |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:07 - Dec 30 by joecooke |
Professional footballers should be comfortable in more than one position at least in my opinion.
Probably the most difficult is asking a left footed full back to play right back or vice versa but generally a right winger to right back is becoming the norm these days.
I understand that they may not be totally comfortable with it but that is no excuse really if they are training in that position prior to being asked to play that position in a match. |
It's a fair point, providing there's sufficient stability within the formation as a whole
For instance, two of Hill's greatest strokes have been putting Done in at RWB against Leeds in the FA Cup, and saving Bunney's career by moving him to RB/RWB last season
In both instances, the team were on the front foot which allowed the players to settle and thrive. What we're seeing now is wholesale changes from one game to the next, and going back to the post to which i originally replied, who knows what the players think of that, and whether they have any opportunity to voice concerns? | |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:29 - Dec 30 with 2277 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:29 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
It's a fair point, providing there's sufficient stability within the formation as a whole
For instance, two of Hill's greatest strokes have been putting Done in at RWB against Leeds in the FA Cup, and saving Bunney's career by moving him to RB/RWB last season
In both instances, the team were on the front foot which allowed the players to settle and thrive. What we're seeing now is wholesale changes from one game to the next, and going back to the post to which i originally replied, who knows what the players think of that, and whether they have any opportunity to voice concerns? |
Don't you mean LB/LWB? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:31 - Dec 30 with 2273 views | D_Alien |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:29 - Dec 30 by TVOS1907 |
Don't you mean LB/LWB? |
I do! I'm not going to edit the post though, just in case they're selected on t' opposite wing against Blackpool... | |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 17:04 - Dec 30 with 2232 views | Nafelad |
| The Real State Of Play... on 16:07 - Dec 30 by joecooke |
Professional footballers should be comfortable in more than one position at least in my opinion.
Probably the most difficult is asking a left footed full back to play right back or vice versa but generally a right winger to right back is becoming the norm these days.
I understand that they may not be totally comfortable with it but that is no excuse really if they are training in that position prior to being asked to play that position in a match. |
He's been happy enough to play Rafferty at left full back, on occasion - even with left sided players like Kitching and Ntlhe available? | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| The Real State Of Play... on 21:40 - Dec 30 with 2103 views | kiwidale |
| The Real State Of Play... on 12:35 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
The impact the players (any players, anywhere) will have on being asked to perform a role they're not comfortable with is to underperform - not deliberately, but that in itself will sap their morale
Whether that applies to Dale players right now is open to question, and you're right to do so
We can only look at performances, and the opinion of KH that "players aren't doing what he's asking them to do" |
Hill has stated more than once "the players are not doing what hes asking them to do" so stop fooking asking them to do it. To keep doing what youv'e been doing all season and expecting a different result is bordering on stupid, which makes me think the problem is Hill and his ego which is exactly what the Barnsley lot said and what cost him his job, I would love to hear what Whitey has to say he had first hand experience of Hill under pressure and being too stubborn to change things. [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 21:45]
| |
| This is not the time for bickering.
|
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 21:51 - Dec 30 with 2091 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Real State Of Play... on 21:40 - Dec 30 by kiwidale |
Hill has stated more than once "the players are not doing what hes asking them to do" so stop fooking asking them to do it. To keep doing what youv'e been doing all season and expecting a different result is bordering on stupid, which makes me think the problem is Hill and his ego which is exactly what the Barnsley lot said and what cost him his job, I would love to hear what Whitey has to say he had first hand experience of Hill under pressure and being too stubborn to change things. [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 21:45]
|
What if he's asking a certain individual to mark a certain opponent at every set-piece and they are failing to do so?
Isn't that more a case of the individual being incapable or unwilling to carry out a basic tactical instruction, rather than there being something wrong with that instruction from the manager? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 22:05 - Dec 30 with 2062 views | kiwidale |
| The Real State Of Play... on 21:51 - Dec 30 by TVOS1907 |
What if he's asking a certain individual to mark a certain opponent at every set-piece and they are failing to do so?
Isn't that more a case of the individual being incapable or unwilling to carry out a basic tactical instruction, rather than there being something wrong with that instruction from the manager? |
Yes its possible thats's what Hill was referring to? but its not what I understood him to mean. My point is Hill has been all over the shop with tactics and selections that have not worked or look likely to get us out of the predicament we are in... "Keep it simple stupid" could be the answer. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
|
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 22:54 - Dec 30 with 2020 views | The_Knightowl |
| The Real State Of Play... on 22:05 - Dec 30 by kiwidale |
Yes its possible thats's what Hill was referring to? but its not what I understood him to mean. My point is Hill has been all over the shop with tactics and selections that have not worked or look likely to get us out of the predicament we are in... "Keep it simple stupid" could be the answer. |
"Keep it simple stupid"
Best thing said on this forum for 6 months................................ | | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 23:14 - Dec 30 with 2000 views | dalenumber2 |
| The Real State Of Play... on 21:51 - Dec 30 by TVOS1907 |
What if he's asking a certain individual to mark a certain opponent at every set-piece and they are failing to do so?
Isn't that more a case of the individual being incapable or unwilling to carry out a basic tactical instruction, rather than there being something wrong with that instruction from the manager? |
Are you saying Hill has no authority over some or all of his players? He is the boss after all and is being well-paid to be in charge! |  | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 23:36 - Dec 30 with 1981 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Real State Of Play... on 23:14 - Dec 30 by dalenumber2 |
Are you saying Hill has no authority over some or all of his players? He is the boss after all and is being well-paid to be in charge! |
No, I’m not saying that at all. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 00:51 - Dec 31 with 1941 views | joecooke |
If you are asked to play out of position then you are either not good enough in the position that you think you should be in,the manager thinks you are better than than the person you are replacing,or the manager is having a wobble! | |
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 01:08 - Dec 31 with 1928 views | kiwidale |
| The Real State Of Play... on 23:14 - Dec 30 by dalenumber2 |
Are you saying Hill has no authority over some or all of his players? He is the boss after all and is being well-paid to be in charge! |
If certain players are ignoring instructions? then don't play them its that simple if on the other hand certain players are unable technically to do so then don't expect them to... If as I suspect is the case its Hills overly complex tactics with strange line ups putting round pegs in square holes is the reason why the team collectively are unable to carry out his instructions? we are not Barcelona ffs then the problem lies at the managers door. If anybody can explain or fathom the way we lined up at Doncaster??? Doncaster is just one example its not the first time Hills selections have had fans head scratching then please enlighten us. If we cant figure it out and there are many knowledgeable fans on here then maybe the team cant. [Post edited 31 Dec 2017 1:12]
| |
| This is not the time for bickering.
|
| |
| The Real State Of Play... on 02:26 - Dec 31 with 1906 views | Shun |
| The Real State Of Play... on 09:03 - Dec 30 by RooleyMoorBlue |
I would like to see us retain possession when we have a throw-in. I think this team is as bad as any I have seen at doing that. The number of goals we have conceded when losing possession from our throw-in is criminal, yet we do it week in week out. Henderson should never be put in midfield. He can`t tackle, his passing is poor and he doesn`t have the engine for it. We need to have more shots from outside the box. Too much of this tippy tappy keep possession football around the penalty area isn`t working, we`re not bloody Arsenal. Done and Hendo should be up top away from home and we should be looking to release them from deep, as we did a couple of years back and use their pace. That`s if Henderson can manage to stay onside. He is lazy where that is concerned. Only Cannon seems to show that this club really matters to him, the rest seem non-committal. No matter what division you are in, you need a ball winner and a leader in midfield, we have neither. Play players in their correct position. You can fanny about with them once you`re safe from relegation, not before. Play Kitching. He is better than McNulty et al, (yet he was undroppable(?)), in his preferred position and was allegedly MOM for the 3 games he did play, but has never played since, despite some dreadful midfield displays by nearly every player. Too many blue-eyed boys that are not under pressure to be dropped and therefore don`t play with any commitment. I could go on, but I think there is enough there to think about. [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 9:07]
|
Henderson and Done are my favourite ever Dale strike partnership after Dagnall/COG. They seemed to have an almost telepathic understanding of each other's game in Done's last spell here. Hence why I was so excited when he resigned. One of the most frustrating elements of this season is that we're over halfway through and we're still yet to see a front two of Done and Henderson that we know was so dangerous last time. |  | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 09:26 - Dec 31 with 1797 views | NorthernDale |
One of the problems is that KH who is the right manager for the Dale, is also seeking to prove a point in players who are not good enough and constantly picked in the hope that one day they become world beaters. What did KH say one aspect of his job is to make the players better, and because he as managed to transformed the careers of Done, Dawson, Hogan, O'Grady for example, he thinks he can do it with our present load of second rate rubbish i.e Nithe (let go by Stevenage, perhaps he was to good for league 2, Andrews, Inman (who is one for the few with talent).
We have some good players in Rafferty, McGahey, Henderson, Done, Cannon, Camps, Rathbone , Keane and Davies when fit, even Bunney is on his day one of the best players to cross a ball into the box, his defending his a bit shaky. I would also include Kitching who as the potential to become a good midfielder, this groups excludes our young players like Morley, Adshead and Gillam.
KH needs to stop seeking to prove a point and pick his best team. | | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 15:01 - Dec 31 with 1678 views | SaxonDale |
It's been said 100 times but we really do need leaders on the pitch. I know Hilly was a big fan of it being scrapped but the loan window being removed really has hurt us and I don't think we'd be in the position we're in had Hilly been able to bring in fresh faces earlier. Right now unless something changes dramatically we're going down, I haven't been much this season but I thought Blackburn and Walsall highlighted some real worries in the team.
First signing I'd like us to bring in is a keeper. At times this season we've played with a hugely inexperienced back 4 and it's shown. The defence needs organising and someone to almost tell Daniels/Bunney/McGahey/ Kgosi where they should be in every passage of play, too many times they're being caught out of position at the moment. I think a Logan style player (preferably one from a few years back) would go a huge way to sorting our defence out- whether theres someone like that out there is another question. I'd also like to see Keane dropped back into centre back but with his recent injury record we can't rely on him- Keane being fit should be seen as an extra rather than a reliance.
Another player I'd like us to try is O'Grady. Unfortunately for whatever reason Davies isn't League 1 standard at the moment (despite his record) and I can't see that changing in the next few months- he just doesn't seem fit enough. O'Grady might not be a 25 goal a season striker but I think he'd help out the team defensively by just offering an outball. Calvin is a decent option but really relies on players being within 10 yards of him for flick ons. O'Grady has that extra quality giving him a few more seconds hold up time. Dumb it down for now and tell the back 4 to hit O'Grady, let him win it on his chest and bring others into play. We don't always have to control the midfield to control matches, especially on the dire pitch we have.
Perkins has been mooted and he could do the Keane role enabling Keane to push back to centre back (if fit.) As a club we've always looked (rightly so)at the long term and we should continue to do that but now more than ever the short term needs to take preference. It's a crucial transfer window, and I honestly reckon we'll have a good idea on whether we're going to go down fighting or with a whimper by the end of it. |  | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 15:39 - Dec 31 with 1620 views | CamdenDale |
Disclaimer - haven't seen a single game this season but might as well have my say in any event.
Play 442/same team wherever possible every week with Henderson and Done up front and keep it on the deck. Buy/loan one quality player, wide man/someone with real pace for me, rather than two or three slight improvements on what we have got. If we go down, then go down playing decent stuff as best we can. |  | | |
| The Real State Of Play... on 15:48 - Dec 31 with 1596 views | JimmyRustler |
IMO our midfield is as light as it ever has been in any of KH's spells. I don't think a defence of Bunney, Nthle, Daniels, McGahey, Rafferty is all that disastrous but we are getting totally bypassed in the middle of the park at present.
Lund has been a big miss in this regard but KK's return could well solve the destroyer problem if he manages to get fully fit again. I also think Rathbone is a passenger at this point and Camps is an absolute luxury player (but a good one on his day obviously) - this leaves us with a pretty non existent midfield and we're getting absolutely dry bummed in there at present.
With regards to our attack, I don't want to see Bunney up there again. Ever. Front two of Hendo and Done for me (at least until Calvin is fit) and let's see if they can strike up the same kind of partnership they enjoyed in their last spell together. Obviously we could do with a goalscorer but unless any of you have one hiding in your arse then I don't see where that's gonna come from. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
