| David Davis + Boris on 18:45 - Jul 16 with 2569 views | QPR_John |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:55 - Jul 16 by R_from_afar |
I'm not an expert on this but I think that what happens is that the import tax is added to the price the manufacturer charges. The manufacturer could choose to reduce their price so that the final price the customer pays is the same, but that would mean reduced margin for them. As I say, that is how I think it works, based on some experience managing prices for a company whose products were sold on all the continents and which were affected by some import/export taxes and other trading considerations.
I am sure there will be some of you on here who understand this better. than I do.
RFA (crawls back into foxhole, dons tin hat, arms claymores....) |
"I'm not an expert on this but I think that what happens is that the import tax is added to the price the manufacturer charge"
But who imposes the import tax I assume from the name it is the country importing the goods. If we decide not to impose the tax there will be no tax [Post edited 16 Jul 2018 18:46]
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| David Davis + Boris on 19:19 - Jul 16 with 2542 views | QPR_Jim |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:12 - Jul 16 by essextaxiboy |
I think remain would win that one as the other two would split the Brexit Vote .
Unless there is some devil in the detail that I am missing I would vote for the TM plan if it remained undiluted further .
If we dont leave this will not go away ,Farage will return to UKIP and get candidates out in every constituency for whenever the election comes . They will IMO get enough votes from both major parties (17 mill snubbed) to gain the balance of power . Their price for co operation ? You guessed it .......... |
I don't doubt that for a second, if we don't leave Farage will be thrust back into politics and may even be able to win his seat as an MP finally.
I was considering the vote because I was wondering how many people are going to be truly pleased with the way we leave the EU. Obviously 16m would rather we didn't (assuming that nobody's changed their mind) then based on the reaction of some politicians TM's plan isn't acceptable to some leavers and vice versa with the "hard" Brexit. So we could end up in a situation where only say 1/3 of the people who voted are happy when 48% could have been kept happy by remaining... Over simplified I know but the way in which some factions have dismissed TM plan I wonder if simply leaving will be enough to keep them content.
But I think it would be closer than you've assumed, if they allowed that vote because people would be apprehensive about abandoning Brexit after the first vote. I personally think we should have another vote, even if remain is taken off the agenda, just to clarify how the public see the best Brexit for Britain. But I think it's too late for that now. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:11 - Jul 16 with 2483 views | derbyhoop |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:02 - Jul 16 by essextaxiboy |
All of the things that you mention and some that you have raised in previous posts are dealt with in the White Paper .
I have read it 3 times and despite the feeling that I am missing something I cant find anything to get upset about. A realisation for me that my Brexit which I still totally support, is softer than I thought. |
You may well be right about the contents of the White Paper. I can't be interested enough to go through it line by line. My belief is that it might form a basis for starting discussions with EU27, but start is all it is. EU have already said they wont change their basic principles (the 4 freedoms) to accommodate a country leaving. And the White Paper doesnt offer anything to services, which is 80% of the UK economy. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| David Davis + Boris on 20:27 - Jul 16 with 2469 views | derbyhoop |
| David Davis + Boris on 11:18 - Jul 16 by hubble |
This is the kind of hyperbole the Remain campaign perpetuates, but it simply isn't true. The Pound-Euro rate today is hardly any different than it was 5 years ago (and the pound is higher against the Euro compared to 2009/10 for example). It's just not a salient issue. Furthermore, there are all sorts of benefits that come with a lower pound anyway, so even then, it's swings and roundabouts. |
The day befire the referendum the £:€ rate was 1.31. In the last 2 years it fell as low as 1.09. You can claim that it's no different to 2009/10 when the UK economy, exposed to the financial crisis, was under v serious pressure.
It isnt a salient point to 1.2m UK citizens in the EU, many of whom are reliant on £ income and € spending. I know people whose income is down by 300€ per month. A lower £ is supposed to benefit exporters, but there is little evidence to support that hypothesis.
The people benefiting are shareholders in FTSE 100 companies, many of whom earn in currencies other than £. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| David Davis + Boris on 22:51 - Jul 16 with 2421 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 19:19 - Jul 16 by QPR_Jim |
I don't doubt that for a second, if we don't leave Farage will be thrust back into politics and may even be able to win his seat as an MP finally.
I was considering the vote because I was wondering how many people are going to be truly pleased with the way we leave the EU. Obviously 16m would rather we didn't (assuming that nobody's changed their mind) then based on the reaction of some politicians TM's plan isn't acceptable to some leavers and vice versa with the "hard" Brexit. So we could end up in a situation where only say 1/3 of the people who voted are happy when 48% could have been kept happy by remaining... Over simplified I know but the way in which some factions have dismissed TM plan I wonder if simply leaving will be enough to keep them content.
But I think it would be closer than you've assumed, if they allowed that vote because people would be apprehensive about abandoning Brexit after the first vote. I personally think we should have another vote, even if remain is taken off the agenda, just to clarify how the public see the best Brexit for Britain. But I think it's too late for that now. |
If they announced now(before negotiations restart) that there was to be another referendum with the question being
Do you want to accept the negotiated arrangement or
Leave on WTO terms
That may focus the minds on both sides of the table . |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:51 - Jul 17 with 2257 views | CiderwithRsie |
| David Davis + Boris on 22:51 - Jul 16 by essextaxiboy |
If they announced now(before negotiations restart) that there was to be another referendum with the question being
Do you want to accept the negotiated arrangement or
Leave on WTO terms
That may focus the minds on both sides of the table . |
If "both sides of the table" means UK and EU, the EU would opt for WTO terms.
Priority for EU (both commission and member states) since day after the Ref has been
1. Preserve EU rules as are, because changing them is a nightmare
2. Keep membership of EU better than not being member
They expect any Brexit to hurt them and have written down that, so WTO doesn't "concentrate their minds", they've allowed for it and started to prepare at least a year ago.
Only options fitting their criteria are an existing model - Norway, Canada, whatever - or WTO. Leavers won't accept Norway and I think it's too late for Canada so either May caves in for a Norway deal and faces the Leave meltdown or its WTO. | | | |
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| David Davis + Boris on 11:17 - Jul 17 with 2234 views | Cammington |
Any chance of Jezza actually pretending to be the opposition for once and calling this out for what it is? |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 11:41 - Jul 17 with 2206 views | QPR_John |
Still does not explain the £9M or so the government spent on the brochure they sent out to all households. Sorry I forgot they were not part of the campaign so exempt from the rules. [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 11:48]
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| David Davis + Boris on 12:21 - Jul 17 with 2154 views | R_from_afar |
| David Davis + Boris on 18:45 - Jul 16 by QPR_John |
"I'm not an expert on this but I think that what happens is that the import tax is added to the price the manufacturer charge"
But who imposes the import tax I assume from the name it is the country importing the goods. If we decide not to impose the tax there will be no tax [Post edited 16 Jul 2018 18:46]
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As I said, I am no expert, but I think I was incorrect when I said it was an "import" tax, I think the tax is actually levied by the country from which the product is exported.
I don't want this sort of thing to happen post-Brexit, by the way! I am firmly in the remain camp but I don't want to see us charged more just to prove that the doom-laden predictions were true.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| David Davis + Boris on 12:53 - Jul 17 with 2124 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| David Davis + Boris on 11:17 - Jul 17 by Cammington |
Any chance of Jezza actually pretending to be the opposition for once and calling this out for what it is? |
Can you be more specific? |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:08 - Jul 17 with 2093 views | BasingstokeR |
Don't disagree its highly embarrassing for the Lib Dems; but does it make a difference if something passes Parliament on 3 votes or just 1 then?
I don't think its "b*llshit" that Labour are enabling Brexit though. They aren't flat out opposing it so how else would you term it if you don't think 'enabling' fits? |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:20 - Jul 17 with 2075 views | robith |
| David Davis + Boris on 12:53 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Can you be more specific? |
Mad isn't it Bazza - anytime anything happens it's always Jezza's fault! Despite the fact that according to his detractors he's a liability who everyone hates, simultaneously a no borders lunatic and a racist, everything will also be brilliant as soon as he does something which is his currently not doing. Melts my brain.
I always thought crimes were a matter for the police, myself. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:37 - Jul 17 with 2054 views | Cammington |
| David Davis + Boris on 12:53 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Can you be more specific? |
The government is in chaos and being held hostage for the hardest possible Brexit by MP's and advisers that are now linked to an organisation that has broken the law. He's had many an open goal to score against Theresa and this shambles of a government before but hasn't either due to his own personal views on Brexit or a perceived fear of alienating Labour voters in Leave constituencies. If he's playing the long long game then fair enough but it's really getting towards the crunch point now and so far the biggest opposition the Government has had is from it's own backbenches. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:38 - Jul 17 with 2051 views | BasingstokeR |
| David Davis + Boris on 11:41 - Jul 17 by QPR_John |
Still does not explain the £9M or so the government spent on the brochure they sent out to all households. Sorry I forgot they were not part of the campaign so exempt from the rules. [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 11:48]
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Still does not explain the £12m or so Arron Banks spent on campaign 'administrative' services by 'Better for the Country Ltd' for Leave.EU just before the official campaign funding tracking started (when the cap was £700k). Sorry I forgot that if you don't just look at the official campaign window when deciding whether rules have been broken you open a ridiculous "well what about this" time delimited can of worms about what you do and don't consider "fair". | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:21 - Jul 17 with 1993 views | hubble |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:27 - Jul 16 by derbyhoop |
The day befire the referendum the £:€ rate was 1.31. In the last 2 years it fell as low as 1.09. You can claim that it's no different to 2009/10 when the UK economy, exposed to the financial crisis, was under v serious pressure.
It isnt a salient point to 1.2m UK citizens in the EU, many of whom are reliant on £ income and € spending. I know people whose income is down by 300€ per month. A lower £ is supposed to benefit exporters, but there is little evidence to support that hypothesis.
The people benefiting are shareholders in FTSE 100 companies, many of whom earn in currencies other than £. |
The rate today is about 0.02p different to before the referendum and is hardly any different now to what it was in 2013, never mind the lows of 2009/10. It really isn't the factor the Remain campaign claim it to be, nor is the hysteria about it justified, in any way.
And a lower pound definitely does benefit exporters - I know several - there's no supposition about it, completely contrary to what you say about 'little evidence'. Here's one of countless examples: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/04/11/uk-manufacturers-rake-extra-expo |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 18:42 - Jul 17 with 1909 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| David Davis + Boris on 13:37 - Jul 17 by Cammington |
The government is in chaos and being held hostage for the hardest possible Brexit by MP's and advisers that are now linked to an organisation that has broken the law. He's had many an open goal to score against Theresa and this shambles of a government before but hasn't either due to his own personal views on Brexit or a perceived fear of alienating Labour voters in Leave constituencies. If he's playing the long long game then fair enough but it's really getting towards the crunch point now and so far the biggest opposition the Government has had is from it's own backbenches. |
Yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn and 98% of Labour MPs voted against an amendment which would take us closer to a hard Brexit. The amendment won by three votes.
The current Liberal Democrat leader, and the previous Liberal Democrat leader didn’t bother to turn up, despite claiming to be strident remainers. One of them, Tim Farron did not attend because he was at a Christian conference on Homosexuality.
Anna Soubry MP, the leading Remainer in her party voted with the hardline Brexiteers who she has been chastising all week.
If those three had voted against, or even bothered to turn up and vote against that amendment, then we would be sitting here today closer to a soft Brexit, or no Brexit at all, which I gather is what you want.
How the fck is that Jeremy Corbyn’s fault, indicative of his personal views, or in anyway any reflection of the opposition? [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 18:44]
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| David Davis + Boris on 19:46 - Jul 17 with 1866 views | CiderwithRsie |
| David Davis + Boris on 18:42 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn and 98% of Labour MPs voted against an amendment which would take us closer to a hard Brexit. The amendment won by three votes.
The current Liberal Democrat leader, and the previous Liberal Democrat leader didn’t bother to turn up, despite claiming to be strident remainers. One of them, Tim Farron did not attend because he was at a Christian conference on Homosexuality.
Anna Soubry MP, the leading Remainer in her party voted with the hardline Brexiteers who she has been chastising all week.
If those three had voted against, or even bothered to turn up and vote against that amendment, then we would be sitting here today closer to a soft Brexit, or no Brexit at all, which I gather is what you want.
How the fck is that Jeremy Corbyn’s fault, indicative of his personal views, or in anyway any reflection of the opposition? [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 18:44]
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Well since you ask Bazza,this is the statement from the LD whips' office:
"Brexit is the most important issue in a generation. And as Liberal Democrats we have taken on the responsibility of stopping it. We’re the only Party united in this aim.
Last night I messed up. The government squeaked home by just 3 votes in a key amendment. It should have been 1.
I was not expecting a close vote - up until 8pm, Labour were planning to abstain which would have meant the vote would be lost by hundreds. In fact several Labour MPs voted with the govenment- which is why they won. By the time it became apparent that the vote was going to be close - it was too late to get two of our MPs back in time to vote.
I’m taking responsibility and redoubling my efforts to stop Brexit."
It is entirely Jezza's fault if he failed to communicate that he intended to vote against until 8 pm, especially since he has previously whipped his party through the government lobby and sacked front benchers for defying the whip.
TBH this was a total cock-up by Cable and Farron who should have been there anyway but it is amazing how quick Momentumites are to seize on this one vote - which would have been lost by 1 vote anyway - to attack the LDs. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 19:54 - Jul 17 with 1857 views | kensalriser |
| David Davis + Boris on 18:42 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn and 98% of Labour MPs voted against an amendment which would take us closer to a hard Brexit. The amendment won by three votes.
The current Liberal Democrat leader, and the previous Liberal Democrat leader didn’t bother to turn up, despite claiming to be strident remainers. One of them, Tim Farron did not attend because he was at a Christian conference on Homosexuality.
Anna Soubry MP, the leading Remainer in her party voted with the hardline Brexiteers who she has been chastising all week.
If those three had voted against, or even bothered to turn up and vote against that amendment, then we would be sitting here today closer to a soft Brexit, or no Brexit at all, which I gather is what you want.
How the fck is that Jeremy Corbyn’s fault, indicative of his personal views, or in anyway any reflection of the opposition? [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 18:44]
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Three Labour MPs declined to take the chance to defeat the government and quite possibly bring it down. Shouldn't your ire be more directed at them? |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 20:00 - Jul 17 with 1850 views | TacticalR |
Somebody said a while ago that the only thing keeping May in power was nobody (either the Brexiteers or Labour) wants to bring down the government and get stuck with this Dog's Brexit. [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 20:00]
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| David Davis + Boris on 20:13 - Jul 17 with 1827 views | Cammington |
| David Davis + Boris on 19:46 - Jul 17 by CiderwithRsie |
Well since you ask Bazza,this is the statement from the LD whips' office:
"Brexit is the most important issue in a generation. And as Liberal Democrats we have taken on the responsibility of stopping it. We’re the only Party united in this aim.
Last night I messed up. The government squeaked home by just 3 votes in a key amendment. It should have been 1.
I was not expecting a close vote - up until 8pm, Labour were planning to abstain which would have meant the vote would be lost by hundreds. In fact several Labour MPs voted with the govenment- which is why they won. By the time it became apparent that the vote was going to be close - it was too late to get two of our MPs back in time to vote.
I’m taking responsibility and redoubling my efforts to stop Brexit."
It is entirely Jezza's fault if he failed to communicate that he intended to vote against until 8 pm, especially since he has previously whipped his party through the government lobby and sacked front benchers for defying the whip.
TBH this was a total cock-up by Cable and Farron who should have been there anyway but it is amazing how quick Momentumites are to seize on this one vote - which would have been lost by 1 vote anyway - to attack the LDs. |
Thank you for doing the leg work for me!
This is exactly my point. Too many times over the last two years Labour MP's have been whipped to abstain. Farron and Cable should obviously take a long hard look at themselves that considering antiBrexit is their identity they couldn't be bothered to turn up to vote against a crucial amendment but JC has to take some responsibility here too.
Anyway, on the back of tonight's vote we're in the surreal position of JRM as effective PM, propped up by Frank Field, Kate Hoey, John Mann and Graham Stringer. Strange times. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:30 - Jul 17 with 1814 views | BasingstokeR |
Surely Hoey, Field, Stringer, Mann etc should be kicked out the party after tonight’s vote? | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:36 - Jul 17 with 1807 views | kensalriser |
No idea why Frank Field isn't in the Tory party.
Also no idea how anyone votes for Kate Hoey or indeed, how she manages to get selected as a Labour candidate for Vauxhall. | |
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