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A "ludicrous claim", i voted for and still stand by the reasons then as now for us leaving the EU. I wasn`t that naive enough to not understand there would be large hurdles to navigate, but the trust to carry out that task was entrusted to the government albeit they`ve managed to fudge it up. As for your list, maybe you should have been shouting from the rooftops back in 2016 how not being in certain agencies and governing bodies which looking at the most important ones have countries from around the globe involved, instead of championing your stance of how you poor folk who live on the continent would be worse off.
There's a big difference between a few large hurdles and I knew exactly what I was voting for. The Remain campaign was dreadful, with its sole focus on economics, led by celebrity supporters. Leave made an emotional connection to people who felt left behind. The former was branded Project Fear. The latter broke electoral law, and lied about the future. There was no plan on how to leave. There is still no credible plan as is becoming more obvious with each passing week. I admit I come at the issue with a different viewpoint. I've read extensively about the issues, which is why I know a lot more of the detail today. Although some of the issues were obvious before the vote. My parents were economic migrants to the UK Over 40 years I worked in 3 different EU countries, excluding UK. I speak French to a reasonable standard and am living and working in France. From here it looks like a clusterfck. And we havent left yet.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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David Davis + Boris on 09:26 - Jul 28 with 3029 views
David Davis + Boris on 17:01 - Jul 26 by kropotkin41
I thought it stank in here, turns out it was this filthy comment you left. I don't want to have run to teacher on the sly, so I'd better tell you that I reported it as abusive. Either you have no real understanding of how the right wing press uses libel against radicals and left wing politicians, you don't understand that there is a clear difference between criticising the State of Israel (an Apartheid state involved in ongoing genocide in Gaza) and being anti-Semitic, or you simply don't care because you're just another muck thrower hoping that some of it will stick on one of the most consistent campaigners against racism and anti-Semitism in British politics today.
I’m still trying to work out how a straight forward question can be abusive.
It’s not like I’m the first person to ask it. Members of the Jewish community seem to be asking it, members of the Labour Party itself are evening asking the question. Okay, you made your case and that’s fine.
It’s odd that whilst it’s alright to chuck all kinds of abuse at Brexiteers, anyone with a view even slightly right of centre is considered fair game and we just take it and move on, yet even a single question that challenges the left and your reporting it.
You’re welcome to reply to this, I don’t block or report anybody, but maybe best if you just block me on the site. No idea how that works, best ask Clive.
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David Davis + Boris on 10:47 - Jul 28 with 2983 views
I’m still trying to work out how a straight forward question can be abusive.
It’s not like I’m the first person to ask it. Members of the Jewish community seem to be asking it, members of the Labour Party itself are evening asking the question. Okay, you made your case and that’s fine.
It’s odd that whilst it’s alright to chuck all kinds of abuse at Brexiteers, anyone with a view even slightly right of centre is considered fair game and we just take it and move on, yet even a single question that challenges the left and your reporting it.
You’re welcome to reply to this, I don’t block or report anybody, but maybe best if you just block me on the site. No idea how that works, best ask Clive.
Click on user name and block.
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:39 - Jul 28 with 2926 views
I have no interest in the internals of the Labour Party, but on the anti-Semitism mirage, here is an interview with expelled Jewish Labour activist Tony Greenstein who makes the point that most of the people expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism are likely to be Jewish.
Air hostess clique
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David Davis + Boris on 14:14 - Jul 28 with 2848 views
I'm not really one for the "Vote Leave cheated!" mob, and I don't think it made a material difference *but* the data today showing they ran dark ads on facebook during the period campaigning was suspended post Jo Cox's murder, some of which were styled "breaking news", is absolutely despicable
Surely the time has come for people to delete Facebook and Twitter. Let those running them know it’s unacceptable.
I deleted my Twitter earlier this year. Genuinely don’t think we’d live in such a divided country without it and I doubt Trump would be president.
David Davis + Boris on 20:53 - Jul 28 by traininvain
Surely the time has come for people to delete Facebook and Twitter. Let those running them know it’s unacceptable.
I deleted my Twitter earlier this year. Genuinely don’t think we’d live in such a divided country without it and I doubt Trump would be president.
You make it sound too easy. I deleted Facebook a while back. 2 years ago roughly. I found it increasingly depressing but instantly felt better after leaving.
Trouble is you're not just deleting an app. You're deleting people. Friends. Pictures. Memories.
You make it sound too easy. I deleted Facebook a while back. 2 years ago roughly. I found it increasingly depressing but instantly felt better after leaving.
Trouble is you're not just deleting an app. You're deleting people. Friends. Pictures. Memories.
Kids today grow up with it. Born into it.
[Post edited 29 Jul 2018 1:04]
3m people across Europe have already deleted Facebook.
If people genuinely feel that fake news on Facebook etc is interfering with democracy then it’s time to let the likes of Zuckerberg know that it needs to change.
I deleted my Facebook years ago and it is tough initially but you soon realise that it doesn’t make much difference to your life.
[Post edited 29 Jul 2018 8:03]
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:04 - Jul 29 with 2477 views
I've given this some thought and in reality Brexit is not happening or at least we leave in name only. Brussels do not want us to leave. Business does not want us to leave. More importantly those that govern us do not want to leave. Cameron made a massive mistake and they will not allow that to happen again. May has sacrificed her political career for the greater good as the establishment sees it a bit like taking a red card for the team. I guess they will see her all right. Democracy is great as long as no one upsets the status quo. We are allowed to pretend every five years and that is it. A second referendum, don't make me laugh, too much of a gamble.
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:43 - Jul 29 with 2458 views
The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:04 - Jul 29 by QPR_John
I've given this some thought and in reality Brexit is not happening or at least we leave in name only. Brussels do not want us to leave. Business does not want us to leave. More importantly those that govern us do not want to leave. Cameron made a massive mistake and they will not allow that to happen again. May has sacrificed her political career for the greater good as the establishment sees it a bit like taking a red card for the team. I guess they will see her all right. Democracy is great as long as no one upsets the status quo. We are allowed to pretend every five years and that is it. A second referendum, don't make me laugh, too much of a gamble.
I think you may be right about where this ends up, it'll be the Gove / Leadsom pragmatic Brexiteer line that wins out: just cobble something together that doesn't cause too much damage, put it in a box and call it Brexit.
[Post edited 29 Jul 2018 16:48]
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 13:20 - Jul 29 with 2430 views
The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:04 - Jul 29 by QPR_John
I've given this some thought and in reality Brexit is not happening or at least we leave in name only. Brussels do not want us to leave. Business does not want us to leave. More importantly those that govern us do not want to leave. Cameron made a massive mistake and they will not allow that to happen again. May has sacrificed her political career for the greater good as the establishment sees it a bit like taking a red card for the team. I guess they will see her all right. Democracy is great as long as no one upsets the status quo. We are allowed to pretend every five years and that is it. A second referendum, don't make me laugh, too much of a gamble.
Finally we're getting somewhere, May is Gary O'Neil so once we've figured out who's Richard Keogh and Bobby Zamora we'll be able to see how this all ends.
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 14:31 - Jul 29 with 2397 views
The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 13:20 - Jul 29 by QPR_Jim
Finally we're getting somewhere, May is Gary O'Neil so once we've figured out who's Richard Keogh and Bobby Zamora we'll be able to see how this all ends.
The Bobby Zamora one is easy. They even have the same chant.
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 15:20 - Jul 29 with 2364 views
The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:04 - Jul 29 by QPR_John
I've given this some thought and in reality Brexit is not happening or at least we leave in name only. Brussels do not want us to leave. Business does not want us to leave. More importantly those that govern us do not want to leave. Cameron made a massive mistake and they will not allow that to happen again. May has sacrificed her political career for the greater good as the establishment sees it a bit like taking a red card for the team. I guess they will see her all right. Democracy is great as long as no one upsets the status quo. We are allowed to pretend every five years and that is it. A second referendum, don't make me laugh, too much of a gamble.
Indeed John, the last thing the 'ruling class' and their political acolytes need is emancipation.
The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:04 - Jul 29 by QPR_John
I've given this some thought and in reality Brexit is not happening or at least we leave in name only. Brussels do not want us to leave. Business does not want us to leave. More importantly those that govern us do not want to leave. Cameron made a massive mistake and they will not allow that to happen again. May has sacrificed her political career for the greater good as the establishment sees it a bit like taking a red card for the team. I guess they will see her all right. Democracy is great as long as no one upsets the status quo. We are allowed to pretend every five years and that is it. A second referendum, don't make me laugh, too much of a gamble.
You are bang-on John. I'm not saying that voting makes no difference because the establishment always win, but it's fair to say that the only election that brought major change was the “war” election in 1945. In most other elections of modern times the winning party's election promises were watered down on attaining office. I suppose Thatcher's sweeping changes to industry at the expense of the workers could be another exeption.
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 15:53 - Jul 29 with 2339 views
The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 12:04 - Jul 29 by QPR_John
I've given this some thought and in reality Brexit is not happening or at least we leave in name only. Brussels do not want us to leave. Business does not want us to leave. More importantly those that govern us do not want to leave. Cameron made a massive mistake and they will not allow that to happen again. May has sacrificed her political career for the greater good as the establishment sees it a bit like taking a red card for the team. I guess they will see her all right. Democracy is great as long as no one upsets the status quo. We are allowed to pretend every five years and that is it. A second referendum, don't make me laugh, too much of a gamble.
I don't buy the narrative that Brexit is people vs the elite at all. I see it as a power struggle within the elite. It was instigated, supported and funded by very rich people and establishment politicians.
By the way, for readers of both persuasions who will miss this thread when it's gone, I can heartily recommend the Politico website. Hope that's not a Spackman. https://www.politico.eu/section/brexit/
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The Brexit Washing Machine Thread on 13:22 - Jul 31 with 2084 views
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