By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Russia invade Ukraine on 19:42 - Jul 17 by Brynmill_Jack
It’s becoming clear to me that neither you (nor your friends) are interested in the slightest or are unconcerned that the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany lionises a man whose battalion whilst working for the SS killed 800,000 Jews.
You lot accuse me of being a war crimes denier - does that in turn make you a holocaust denier?
I asked you and the other sycophants a few days ago for an update on the 1000 people (Zelensky’s estimate) trapped under the rubble of the shopping mall in Kremenchuk (apologies if spelled incorrectly). Nobody came back with a response apart from Controversial Jack saying that’s all gone quiet.
So I ask you again - where is your proof of atrocities, verifiable victims lists of names etc etc ? When these bodies are exhumed (in the case of mass graves for example) there will be accounts of victims ages, , addresses etc etc. Ive been sceptical of the Ukrainian reports ever since the child rape allegations turned out to be complete and utter fabrications - no evidence was ever produced and in the end there was an admission from the Ukrainian parliament rubbishing the sacked human rights ombudsman’s statements as fantasy.
I’m not saying the Russians definitely haven’t committed war crimes because I simply don’t know that. But I’m wary of the Ukrainian accounts - if they can lie about such a heinous thing they can stretch the truth about anything.
Still no apology for lying on here? You're twisting and turning because you've said many things which are untrue. All the while you openly support a full invasion of Ukraine which has led to a huge amount (and a huge escalation) of death, suffering and war crimes, as evidenced in the OSCE report released days ago. The evidence is clear and not up for debate, yet you casually support the Russian invasion, spread Kremlin propaganda about how it is justified and happily let your pal 'Controversial Jack' deny events like Bucha regardless.
On Bandera, as you are desperate to lead the discussion here, here is an article, by German media, about how Bandera is viewed in Ukraine.
"While the view of Bandera has becom more positive over the years, Ukraine remains divided over the issue. A survey by the Democratic Initiative Foundation in April 2021 found that one out of three Ukrainians, 32%, considered Bandera's acts as positive, and just as many took the opposite view.
Ukraine that Bandera wanted
The Bandera cult is an "expression of selective memory and politics of history," said Andreas Umland, an expert at the Stockholm Center for Eastern European Studies. It is about remembering that Bandera was a radical fighter for independence who served time in a Polish prison and a German concentration camp and was murdered by the KGB, he told DW.
"What people do not remember is that both at the beginning and at the end of World War II, the movement that Bandera led, the OUN, cooperated with the Third Reich for various reasons," Umland said.
Many Ukrainians are supportive of Bandera's actions Experts have two explanations, said Umland. One group believes the cooperation was forced, while others argue there was an ideological closeness. Both are true, said Grzegorz Rossolinski-Liebe, a Bandera biographer and historian at the Free University of Berlin."
"Selective memory is not something that's unique for Ukraine – it happens in other countries too, Umland said. He pointed to a prominent example from Germany, where churches and streets are named after Martin Luther – although it's known that he hated Jews."
It's not surprising that support for a Ukrainian nationalist like Bandera rises when Russia invades. It is obviously disingenuous to say that many of those holding a positive view of him are doing so for reasons linked to the holocaust.
On Kremenchuk mall, this is covers dead and injured tolls.
And here are some of the survivors:
I guess it won't be good enough for you because you're looking for holes, but this is a war where information is being reported quickly and Ukrainians are dying in many different places every day.
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 21:11 - Jul 17 with 1342 views
Russia invade Ukraine on 20:31 - Jul 17 by Brynmill_Jack
Even if it’s completely devoid of fact! You boys really make me laugh! Amazing over emotional claptrap that says nothing about the aggressive Euromaidan revolution , the burning alive of political opponents (staging a peaceful protest) and the banning, yes, banning of the Russian , Hungarian and most notably Yiddish in the Lviv oblast.
Please take time to read the following Wikipedia page in it’s entirety- especially the 2017 education act and the 2019 Law on Supporting the Functioning of the Ukrainian Language as the State Language.
The analysis section at the end is the most revealing and describes tensions with Hungary over their minority population in the Ukraine.
Have a read, Dean - I’m dying to hear how those words translate into your brain.
Notable then that you couldn't address it when many of your claims were shown to be untrue. I know for a fact that you can't address some points made because they are without a doubt true.
As for your link, it does not show what you want it to show and what you have claimed has happened (the speaking of Russian being a crime in Ukraine).
Here is a critical look at the motion/law that you refer to in that Wikipedia page and it discusses why it was criticised as well as why it was proposed:
Russia invade Ukraine on 21:11 - Jul 17 by deanscfc
"Even though it's completely devoid of fact".
Notable then that you couldn't address it when many of your claims were shown to be untrue. I know for a fact that you can't address some points made because they are without a doubt true.
As for your link, it does not show what you want it to show and what you have claimed has happened (the speaking of Russian being a crime in Ukraine).
Here is a critical look at the motion/law that you refer to in that Wikipedia page and it discusses why it was criticised as well as why it was proposed:
Russia invade Ukraine on 20:55 - Jul 17 by deanscfc
Still no apology for lying on here? You're twisting and turning because you've said many things which are untrue. All the while you openly support a full invasion of Ukraine which has led to a huge amount (and a huge escalation) of death, suffering and war crimes, as evidenced in the OSCE report released days ago. The evidence is clear and not up for debate, yet you casually support the Russian invasion, spread Kremlin propaganda about how it is justified and happily let your pal 'Controversial Jack' deny events like Bucha regardless.
On Bandera, as you are desperate to lead the discussion here, here is an article, by German media, about how Bandera is viewed in Ukraine.
"While the view of Bandera has becom more positive over the years, Ukraine remains divided over the issue. A survey by the Democratic Initiative Foundation in April 2021 found that one out of three Ukrainians, 32%, considered Bandera's acts as positive, and just as many took the opposite view.
Ukraine that Bandera wanted
The Bandera cult is an "expression of selective memory and politics of history," said Andreas Umland, an expert at the Stockholm Center for Eastern European Studies. It is about remembering that Bandera was a radical fighter for independence who served time in a Polish prison and a German concentration camp and was murdered by the KGB, he told DW.
"What people do not remember is that both at the beginning and at the end of World War II, the movement that Bandera led, the OUN, cooperated with the Third Reich for various reasons," Umland said.
Many Ukrainians are supportive of Bandera's actions Experts have two explanations, said Umland. One group believes the cooperation was forced, while others argue there was an ideological closeness. Both are true, said Grzegorz Rossolinski-Liebe, a Bandera biographer and historian at the Free University of Berlin."
"Selective memory is not something that's unique for Ukraine – it happens in other countries too, Umland said. He pointed to a prominent example from Germany, where churches and streets are named after Martin Luther – although it's known that he hated Jews."
It's not surprising that support for a Ukrainian nationalist like Bandera rises when Russia invades. It is obviously disingenuous to say that many of those holding a positive view of him are doing so for reasons linked to the holocaust.
On Kremenchuk mall, this is covers dead and injured tolls.
And here are some of the survivors:
I guess it won't be good enough for you because you're looking for holes, but this is a war where information is being reported quickly and Ukrainians are dying in many different places every day.
Not looking for hole, looking for answers and you’ve provided one. I stated from the outset that it would be a definite war crime if the Russians deliberately targeted a shopping mall. Maybe they did, maybe it was a horrible mistake and they meant to hit something else.
But 50 civilians dead is terrible and I won’t defend that. Thank you for posting because this wasn’t published when I genuinely went looking for it.
Bandera’s popularity was high in the Ukraine 8 years ago. The video I posted was 2014 when they were running riot killing Russian protesters by burning. The torchlight processions occur on the anniversary of Banderas death . Don’t you think that 32% of any population is a high number of supporters for a unrepentant Nazi and murderer (some 800,000 Jews and a significant number of Poles)? Also considering that is an Ukrainian source those numbers may be a little conservative.
Let’s not forget though that the Nazis took control of Germany with less and the Bolsheviks took control of Russia with a few hundred who stoked up resentment - maneuvering themselves into unfettered power. I think (as did many western media outlets and the BBC too considered Ukraine to have a serious ultra nationalist problem in the middle of the last decade. That cannot be simply rubbed off the blackboard.
If you want to call me a liar please provide evidence. I don’t and never have supported a full invasion of the Ukraine - the Donbas need their independence after 8 years of bombardment and I support that wholeheartedly . The Russians have zero interest in Kiev or the west of Ukraine- that much should be obvious.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 21:50 - Jul 17 with 1291 views
Russia invade Ukraine on 21:35 - Jul 17 by Brynmill_Jack
Not looking for hole, looking for answers and you’ve provided one. I stated from the outset that it would be a definite war crime if the Russians deliberately targeted a shopping mall. Maybe they did, maybe it was a horrible mistake and they meant to hit something else.
But 50 civilians dead is terrible and I won’t defend that. Thank you for posting because this wasn’t published when I genuinely went looking for it.
Bandera’s popularity was high in the Ukraine 8 years ago. The video I posted was 2014 when they were running riot killing Russian protesters by burning. The torchlight processions occur on the anniversary of Banderas death . Don’t you think that 32% of any population is a high number of supporters for a unrepentant Nazi and murderer (some 800,000 Jews and a significant number of Poles)? Also considering that is an Ukrainian source those numbers may be a little conservative.
Let’s not forget though that the Nazis took control of Germany with less and the Bolsheviks took control of Russia with a few hundred who stoked up resentment - maneuvering themselves into unfettered power. I think (as did many western media outlets and the BBC too considered Ukraine to have a serious ultra nationalist problem in the middle of the last decade. That cannot be simply rubbed off the blackboard.
If you want to call me a liar please provide evidence. I don’t and never have supported a full invasion of the Ukraine - the Donbas need their independence after 8 years of bombardment and I support that wholeheartedly . The Russians have zero interest in Kiev or the west of Ukraine- that much should be obvious.
Not got time to provide a thorough answer to this tonight but you have said 'thank God they fought back'. Again, everything started with Russia. They invaded in 2014. I've known people in the Donbas...they definitely were not happy about Russia's invasion or what Russia did to their homes. I've covered the 'Ukraine bombing the people of Donbas for 8 years' Kremlin line and have provided figures which show why that isn't an accurate portrayal of what has happened.
On Bandera, I think that article covers it pretty well. Russia have been a problem for Ukraine for a long time.
I very much disagree that Russia have no interest in Western Ukraine. Russia tried what it could, inaccurately thinking it would be met with far less resistance than it was. It also ran into huge logistical problems with its equipment. It's state TV which features propagandists who often appear alongside Putin don't try and hide that it wants to wipe Ukraine off the map and 'take back old land'. They just now believe they have a different method of doing that...by taking the whole of the East, together with the whole of the South, cutting it off from the Black Sea and ruining Ukraine's economy in the long term. With Russia it is a case of 'see what is possible'. When one of the main Kremlin propagandists was on Italian TV recently he got shown up for his lies about Russia only wanting the East of Ukraine.
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 21:52 - Jul 17 with 1282 views
The DPR forces occupy that airport - according to this Ukrainian source (so you got that arse backwards). If the DPR troops are trying to hold an airport with strategic importance of course they are going to be attacked.
So Brynnie are you going to fess up and state you got the article wrong? r will you misdirect or double down?
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 22:42 - Jul 17 with 1253 views
Russia invade Ukraine on 16:55 - Jul 17 by Jack123
Not trying to be pedantic here DJ, but surely the term is as dull as dish water? Not ditch water.
NOPE!
The original term was "as dull as ditchwater" but in more modern times with people living in cities not seeing a ditch many people then used "dishwater" as a substitute.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
1
Russia invade Ukraine on 22:49 - Jul 17 with 1251 views
Probably, is as good as it gets during conflicts. Grasping at straws there mate.
A few things here , I'm not the one using twisted logic and presenting russian propaganda as if it's the truth , you're a troll and not a very good one and you're not my mate ,so go and do us all a favour and crawl back behind the sofa
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 09:46 - Jul 18 with 1145 views
A few things here , I'm not the one using twisted logic and presenting russian propaganda as if it's the truth , you're a troll and not a very good one and you're not my mate ,so go and do us all a favour and crawl back behind the sofa
I could say that you are swallowing the Ukrainian propaganda, dude,
I see Dullesnsky has sacked his top security adviser.He doesn't like any opposition. He has shut down opposition parties, shut down Tv stations and removed any opposition
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 11:20 - Jul 18 with 1123 views
I could say that you are swallowing the Ukrainian propaganda, dude,
I see Dullesnsky has sacked his top security adviser.He doesn't like any opposition. He has shut down opposition parties, shut down Tv stations and removed any opposition
I see care in the community isn't working , your carer really should watch over you with little more diligence .
" I see Putin has sacked his top security adviser.He doesn't like any opposition. He has shut down opposition parties, shut down Tv stations and removed any opposition" thick as mince
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 11:22 - Jul 18 with 1113 views
I see care in the community isn't working , your carer really should watch over you with little more diligence .
" I see Putin has sacked his top security adviser.He doesn't like any opposition. He has shut down opposition parties, shut down Tv stations and removed any opposition" thick as mince
I see you have no defense of Zelensky, just a personal go at me and some whataboutery.
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 14:03 - Jul 18 with 1089 views
Why would it , don't bother answering I'm not interested
So you don't care that the Ukrainian army have been shelling these areas for 8 years - you don't care for the truth. You have no objectivity .
You speak about the shopping centre being hit and yes that was bad - but Donetsk civilians don't have the same worth as the victims in Kremenchuk ?
Please stop replying on this thread, in your head this only started in late February this year when the whole world knows its been going on since 2014. You rubbish the analysis from respected speakers such as Mearsheimer because it's simply not what you want to hear. You prefer the predictable bias of western media but if they're lying how does that help the Ukrainian people and government? The Americans are making statements to fight to the last Ukrainian when its not those cowards who are making those sacrifices.
If you have an illogical hatred for Russia and Russian people that aligns you perfectly with your Azov bandwrite heroes who committed atrocities long before February 2022. They burned innocent demonstrators alive and filmed it the hideous c*mts.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 19:49 - Jul 18 with 993 views
Russia invade Ukraine on 19:32 - Jul 18 by Brynmill_Jack
So you don't care that the Ukrainian army have been shelling these areas for 8 years - you don't care for the truth. You have no objectivity .
You speak about the shopping centre being hit and yes that was bad - but Donetsk civilians don't have the same worth as the victims in Kremenchuk ?
Please stop replying on this thread, in your head this only started in late February this year when the whole world knows its been going on since 2014. You rubbish the analysis from respected speakers such as Mearsheimer because it's simply not what you want to hear. You prefer the predictable bias of western media but if they're lying how does that help the Ukrainian people and government? The Americans are making statements to fight to the last Ukrainian when its not those cowards who are making those sacrifices.
If you have an illogical hatred for Russia and Russian people that aligns you perfectly with your Azov bandwrite heroes who committed atrocities long before February 2022. They burned innocent demonstrators alive and filmed it the hideous c*mts.
You really are like a broken record desperate to cling on to the same Kremlin lines. When presented with the fact that everything started after Russia first invaded in 2014, and then escalated massively in 2022, and when presented with the actual figures (deaths over these years), you had nothing.
0
Russia invade Ukraine on 20:31 - Jul 18 with 972 views
Russia invade Ukraine on 19:51 - Jul 18 by deanscfc
You really are like a broken record desperate to cling on to the same Kremlin lines. When presented with the fact that everything started after Russia first invaded in 2014, and then escalated massively in 2022, and when presented with the actual figures (deaths over these years), you had nothing.
Vladimir Putin refers to the “genocide” in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine. Following the coup in Ukraine in 2014 — orchestrated by Barack Obama’s “point person” in Kyiv, Victoria Nuland — the coup regime, infested with neo-Nazis, launched a campaign of terror against Russian-speaking Donbas, which accounts for a third of Ukraine’s population.
Overseen by CIA director John Brennan in Kyiv, “special security units” coordinated savage attacks on the people of Donbas, who opposed the coup. Video and eyewitness reports show bussed fascist thugs burning the trade union headquarters in the city of Odessa, killing 41 people trapped inside. The police are standing by. Obama congratulated the “duly elected” coup regime for its “remarkable restraint”.
“The police and official legal authorities do virtually nothing to prevent these neo-fascist acts or to prosecute them. On the contrary, Kyiv has officially encouraged them by systematically rehabilitating and even memorializing Ukrainian collaborators with Nazi German extermination pogroms, renaming streets in their honor, building monuments to them, rewriting history to glorify them, and more.”
Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The “massing” army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war
Still think the Ukraine is a peacefull responsible democratic place?
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
