| Assisted dying bill 19:19 - May 13 with 1602 views | raynor94 |
Has passed the first stage in Scotland, following Parliament, personally I think it's thw way forward |  |
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| Assisted dying bill on 20:18 - May 13 with 897 views | onehunglow |
Good |  |
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| Assisted dying bill on 20:58 - May 13 with 875 views | Whiterockin |
Agreed but there has to be safeguards in place. There is nothing some won't do to get their inheritance early. |  | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:04 - May 13 with 857 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 20:58 - May 13 by Whiterockin |
Agreed but there has to be safeguards in place. There is nothing some won't do to get their inheritance early. |
Should be easy ebouwhats more important is stopping insufferable suffering for human beings because of religious overtones | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 21:15 - May 13 with 842 views | Whiterockin |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:04 - May 13 by onehunglow |
Should be easy ebouwhats more important is stopping insufferable suffering for human beings because of religious overtones |
I've seen enough of that in recent years to agree with the bill. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:17 - May 13 with 828 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:15 - May 13 by Whiterockin |
I've seen enough of that in recent years to agree with the bill. |
We don't allow dogs to suffer and don't hesitate to kill horses if in serious pain | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 21:56 - May 13 with 805 views | raynor94 |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:15 - May 13 by Whiterockin |
I've seen enough of that in recent years to agree with the bill. |
Yes I have first hand experience of seeing suffering, I wouldn't wish it on anybody | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 00:35 - May 14 with 769 views | majorraglan |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:56 - May 13 by raynor94 |
Yes I have first hand experience of seeing suffering, I wouldn't wish it on anybody |
Sadly, I have experience of that too.
I see no reason why we can’t introduce assisted dying here because it’s taking place in other parts with very little issues, Dignitas has been running for years.
If we incorporate safeguards such as a compulsory interview between the subject, his doctors, approved MH Social Worker and an advocate judge or whatever and they all are satisfied there is no duress / pressure from family re accessing an inheritance etc etc, the prognosis is that death will take place within 12 months (or whatever the agreed time line is set at) then it should be allowed.
As has been said, there are times when we treat animals better than we treat human beings. The bottom line is that if someone is against assisted dying then they don’t have to exercise it, but why should they deny that right to someone else who is suffering. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 08:19 - May 14 with 719 views | AnotherJohn |
The Royal College of Psychiatrists has just come out against the bill in its present form, mainly because they do not believe the safeguards are sufficient. I have to say I have doubts myself and would prefer to see more funding given to palliative care as a first step, while we allow more time for examination of the issues. As I have said before, palliative sedation is a kind of halfway step that can remove suffering when more conventional palliative interventions don't work. | | | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 09:06 - May 14 with 688 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 08:19 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
The Royal College of Psychiatrists has just come out against the bill in its present form, mainly because they do not believe the safeguards are sufficient. I have to say I have doubts myself and would prefer to see more funding given to palliative care as a first step, while we allow more time for examination of the issues. As I have said before, palliative sedation is a kind of halfway step that can remove suffering when more conventional palliative interventions don't work. |
It's their opinion
Biggest reason for opposing based on religion . Only God gives and takes life | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 09:13 - May 14 with 684 views | union_jack |
My mother died a few weeks ago, we buried her yesterday. She had Stage 4 cancer and had gone through a series of procedures which were painful including a chest drain.
Her biggest fear was going into a period of extreme pain which I believe she would have done or effectively euthanised by an adequate dose of morphine.
‘Luckily’ and I mean this sincerely, she died suddenly when getting out of her hospital bed and sitting down with a physio to do some leg exercises. Gone, just like that. No one could have asked for more.
I would gladly have helped her to achieve that if it was legal. I’d have hated to see her suffer, it has no purpose when death is inevitable.
She was 90.
I do appreciate that the safeguards need to be watertight to avoid ‘foul play’ for example but at the same time need to be bureaucratically light so as to avoid excessive suffering.
In the right circumstances it is just humane.
Sorry to bring this to the site but it is appropriate I think. |  |
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| Assisted dying bill on 09:21 - May 14 with 678 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 09:13 - May 14 by union_jack |
My mother died a few weeks ago, we buried her yesterday. She had Stage 4 cancer and had gone through a series of procedures which were painful including a chest drain.
Her biggest fear was going into a period of extreme pain which I believe she would have done or effectively euthanised by an adequate dose of morphine.
‘Luckily’ and I mean this sincerely, she died suddenly when getting out of her hospital bed and sitting down with a physio to do some leg exercises. Gone, just like that. No one could have asked for more.
I would gladly have helped her to achieve that if it was legal. I’d have hated to see her suffer, it has no purpose when death is inevitable.
She was 90.
I do appreciate that the safeguards need to be watertight to avoid ‘foul play’ for example but at the same time need to be bureaucratically light so as to avoid excessive suffering.
In the right circumstances it is just humane.
Sorry to bring this to the site but it is appropriate I think. |
Don't be sorry
It's a reminder | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 09:30 - May 14 with 665 views | raynor94 |
| Assisted dying bill on 09:13 - May 14 by union_jack |
My mother died a few weeks ago, we buried her yesterday. She had Stage 4 cancer and had gone through a series of procedures which were painful including a chest drain.
Her biggest fear was going into a period of extreme pain which I believe she would have done or effectively euthanised by an adequate dose of morphine.
‘Luckily’ and I mean this sincerely, she died suddenly when getting out of her hospital bed and sitting down with a physio to do some leg exercises. Gone, just like that. No one could have asked for more.
I would gladly have helped her to achieve that if it was legal. I’d have hated to see her suffer, it has no purpose when death is inevitable.
She was 90.
I do appreciate that the safeguards need to be watertight to avoid ‘foul play’ for example but at the same time need to be bureaucratically light so as to avoid excessive suffering.
In the right circumstances it is just humane.
Sorry to bring this to the site but it is appropriate I think. |
No need for apologies, I watched my late wife suffer, something I wouldn't wish on anyone.
As long as the correct safeguards are enforced, it is the way forward to eradicate suffering when there's no need | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 10:13 - May 14 with 632 views | Whiterockin |
| Assisted dying bill on 09:13 - May 14 by union_jack |
My mother died a few weeks ago, we buried her yesterday. She had Stage 4 cancer and had gone through a series of procedures which were painful including a chest drain.
Her biggest fear was going into a period of extreme pain which I believe she would have done or effectively euthanised by an adequate dose of morphine.
‘Luckily’ and I mean this sincerely, she died suddenly when getting out of her hospital bed and sitting down with a physio to do some leg exercises. Gone, just like that. No one could have asked for more.
I would gladly have helped her to achieve that if it was legal. I’d have hated to see her suffer, it has no purpose when death is inevitable.
She was 90.
I do appreciate that the safeguards need to be watertight to avoid ‘foul play’ for example but at the same time need to be bureaucratically light so as to avoid excessive suffering.
In the right circumstances it is just humane.
Sorry to bring this to the site but it is appropriate I think. |
Sorry to hear of your loss UJ I went through similar and sometimes the end is a relief. I'm all for assisted dying provided there are safeguards in place, not only to stop unscrupulous family members but also pressure being brought to bare by medical staff thinking of the long term cost of keeping someone alive. I did feel it was edging that way when we were discussing treatment and medication regarding an elderly relative of mine. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 10:35 - May 14 with 606 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 08:19 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
The Royal College of Psychiatrists has just come out against the bill in its present form, mainly because they do not believe the safeguards are sufficient. I have to say I have doubts myself and would prefer to see more funding given to palliative care as a first step, while we allow more time for examination of the issues. As I have said before, palliative sedation is a kind of halfway step that can remove suffering when more conventional palliative interventions don't work. |
Palliative care is the only care have at the moment, but it's not always effective. Many still suffer badly and pain relief and sedation doesn't always work. Patients often get distressed too. Some die hard and some not so. This has to be the way forward as it gives a choice to those in need | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 12:23 - May 14 with 565 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 10:35 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
Palliative care is the only care have at the moment, but it's not always effective. Many still suffer badly and pain relief and sedation doesn't always work. Patients often get distressed too. Some die hard and some not so. This has to be the way forward as it gives a choice to those in need |
Palliative sedation is usually taken to mean continuous deep sedation, usually until death. Patients don't wake up again unless the sedative drug is reduced, but under some regimes they may be awakened after a period to determine whether their state has improved ("intermittent PS "). It has been controversial when introduced in several countries because critics say it is almost the same as euthanasia.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2947968/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23742736/ [Post edited 14 May 12:25]
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| Assisted dying bill on 12:50 - May 14 with 534 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 12:23 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
Palliative sedation is usually taken to mean continuous deep sedation, usually until death. Patients don't wake up again unless the sedative drug is reduced, but under some regimes they may be awakened after a period to determine whether their state has improved ("intermittent PS "). It has been controversial when introduced in several countries because critics say it is almost the same as euthanasia.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2947968/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23742736/ [Post edited 14 May 12:25]
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I have a close relative who works with end of life, and sedation, pain relief doesn't always work , and patients are often in paid and distressed | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 13:22 - May 14 with 510 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 12:50 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
I have a close relative who works with end of life, and sedation, pain relief doesn't always work , and patients are often in paid and distressed |
You didn't read the articles did you? These are not behind pay walls. I sometimes think I am wasting my time trying to guide some on here towards what professionals know already. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 13:34 - May 14 with 486 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 13:22 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
You didn't read the articles did you? These are not behind pay walls. I sometimes think I am wasting my time trying to guide some on here towards what professionals know already. |
I know what palliative sedation is, but i'm trying to tell you it isn't always effective and that there should be a choice with those in distress | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 15:24 - May 14 with 467 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Assisted dying bill on 08:19 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
The Royal College of Psychiatrists has just come out against the bill in its present form, mainly because they do not believe the safeguards are sufficient. I have to say I have doubts myself and would prefer to see more funding given to palliative care as a first step, while we allow more time for examination of the issues. As I have said before, palliative sedation is a kind of halfway step that can remove suffering when more conventional palliative interventions don't work. |
Pallative sedation? Don't make me laugh, I watched my sister die slowly over 15 months and bear in mind my sister was an oncology nurse. She didn't want palliative sedation because in her words it just knocked you out, you may as well be dead as lie there for months unconscious.
They gave her the palliative sedation eventually because she could no longer cope, she was dead 2 days later, she never woke up.
She agreed with death with dignity as long as the safeguards are there. In her career she nursed hundreds of people who were just on her ward to die. it's cruel, it's inhumane. In the end she had to leave Velindre hospital because watching people die in agony got to her, she went to work for Tenovus then MacMillan and helped thousands of people with advice.
The hippocratic oath, do no harm, is keeping people alive in agony who want to die, is that not doing harm, to the living who have to watch is as well as the dying?
I spent a month at my sisters bedside, I tried to stay strong for her kids and my bro in law and then I had a breakdown and had 2 months off work.
There will always be greedy relatives. Put the safeguards in, sensible safeguards and just pass the bill. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 15:44 - May 14 with 448 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 15:24 - May 14 by SullutaCreturned |
Pallative sedation? Don't make me laugh, I watched my sister die slowly over 15 months and bear in mind my sister was an oncology nurse. She didn't want palliative sedation because in her words it just knocked you out, you may as well be dead as lie there for months unconscious.
They gave her the palliative sedation eventually because she could no longer cope, she was dead 2 days later, she never woke up.
She agreed with death with dignity as long as the safeguards are there. In her career she nursed hundreds of people who were just on her ward to die. it's cruel, it's inhumane. In the end she had to leave Velindre hospital because watching people die in agony got to her, she went to work for Tenovus then MacMillan and helped thousands of people with advice.
The hippocratic oath, do no harm, is keeping people alive in agony who want to die, is that not doing harm, to the living who have to watch is as well as the dying?
I spent a month at my sisters bedside, I tried to stay strong for her kids and my bro in law and then I had a breakdown and had 2 months off work.
There will always be greedy relatives. Put the safeguards in, sensible safeguards and just pass the bill. |
That's an horrific read mate
I think people are blighted with their moral issue than the welfare of the dying person
It is selfish to allow people to suffer because we feel it's best for them to stay alive
And suffer | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 16:06 - May 14 with 438 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 13:34 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
I know what palliative sedation is, but i'm trying to tell you it isn't always effective and that there should be a choice with those in distress |
If the sedative drugs are administered in the correct dose they will render the patient unconscious. PS is for patients for whom other pain relief drugs that leave the patient sentient are ineffective, The non-opiate drugs that are effective are listed in some detail in the paper from the Mayo Institute I cited. In this country I think it is more common to use a morphine pump which is pretty much the end, and is regarded by many experts in the field as not really PS. The issue you are pointing to is that PS may not be implemented as wisely in certain areas of the UK as it is in a country like the Netherlands. I do not get my information from an a relative who works in this field, but from personal contact with researchers who took an interest in this field. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 16:44 - May 14 with 410 views | max936 |
| Assisted dying bill on 09:13 - May 14 by union_jack |
My mother died a few weeks ago, we buried her yesterday. She had Stage 4 cancer and had gone through a series of procedures which were painful including a chest drain.
Her biggest fear was going into a period of extreme pain which I believe she would have done or effectively euthanised by an adequate dose of morphine.
‘Luckily’ and I mean this sincerely, she died suddenly when getting out of her hospital bed and sitting down with a physio to do some leg exercises. Gone, just like that. No one could have asked for more.
I would gladly have helped her to achieve that if it was legal. I’d have hated to see her suffer, it has no purpose when death is inevitable.
She was 90.
I do appreciate that the safeguards need to be watertight to avoid ‘foul play’ for example but at the same time need to be bureaucratically light so as to avoid excessive suffering.
In the right circumstances it is just humane.
Sorry to bring this to the site but it is appropriate I think. |
Sorry to read this Uni, sincere condolences to you and yours for your loss. |  |
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| Assisted dying bill on 17:01 - May 14 with 400 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 16:06 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
If the sedative drugs are administered in the correct dose they will render the patient unconscious. PS is for patients for whom other pain relief drugs that leave the patient sentient are ineffective, The non-opiate drugs that are effective are listed in some detail in the paper from the Mayo Institute I cited. In this country I think it is more common to use a morphine pump which is pretty much the end, and is regarded by many experts in the field as not really PS. The issue you are pointing to is that PS may not be implemented as wisely in certain areas of the UK as it is in a country like the Netherlands. I do not get my information from an a relative who works in this field, but from personal contact with researchers who took an interest in this field. |
A relative who works with them day in day out, and sees things 24/7. It doesn't always knock them out either. Many can fight it if they are in a distressed state | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 17:26 - May 14 with 387 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Assisted dying bill on 16:06 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
If the sedative drugs are administered in the correct dose they will render the patient unconscious. PS is for patients for whom other pain relief drugs that leave the patient sentient are ineffective, The non-opiate drugs that are effective are listed in some detail in the paper from the Mayo Institute I cited. In this country I think it is more common to use a morphine pump which is pretty much the end, and is regarded by many experts in the field as not really PS. The issue you are pointing to is that PS may not be implemented as wisely in certain areas of the UK as it is in a country like the Netherlands. I do not get my information from an a relative who works in this field, but from personal contact with researchers who took an interest in this field. |
Whom do the researchers get their information from, people working in this fiekd maybe?
Who do the researchers ask if not the experst in their field?
Palliative sedation is simply knocking people out until they die, unconcious, unaware and unrepsonsive. Then it's the relatives left to watch and wait for the inevitable. Why is that better than giving the terminal patient the choice? | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 18:48 - May 14 with 360 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 17:26 - May 14 by SullutaCreturned |
Whom do the researchers get their information from, people working in this fiekd maybe?
Who do the researchers ask if not the experst in their field?
Palliative sedation is simply knocking people out until they die, unconcious, unaware and unrepsonsive. Then it's the relatives left to watch and wait for the inevitable. Why is that better than giving the terminal patient the choice? |
Most of the researchers in the area work in medical schools or medical research centres; some are medically-qualified and some are health service researchers. A few are in university nursing, social science or ethics departments. Most of the research involves talking to front line professionals. and looking at how often various end of life interventions are used. If you read the articles you will get the drift, You may have noticed that a BBC survey of a 1000 GPs reported today shows that well over half were against. A GP interviewed on the BBC News Channel this afternoon said much the same as I did about the better path being to improve palliative care. I explained already that being put on a morphine pump isn't regarded by many as true PS because some think it shortens life. My impression is that we do not use non-opioid alternatives as much in the UK as in say the Netherlands, so our carers may be reluctant to use a morphine option that does not leave the patient with long to live. That is the unfortunate way SC's sister's life ended as was the case with my mother..
Sensible people line up on both sides of the argument, but some of what was said about PS in this thread is not correct. There is a big literature in this field, but why bother with evidence when you can use personal anecdote?
Why do some doctors say PS is a better option than euthanasia? Well that is what one of the two articles I cited explains.
Edit: Last bit added because I forgot that question. [Post edited 14 May 19:58]
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