| Assisted dying bill 19:19 - May 13 with 3349 views | raynor94 |
Has passed the first stage in Scotland, following Parliament, personally I think it's thw way forward |  |
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| Assisted dying bill on 19:18 - May 14 with 1200 views | max936 |
They can put patients with terminal illnesses can be be put on a driver, I don't know how it works exactly, but it must be an an assist I'd have thought.
Be interesting to know, if anyone does know ? |  |
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| Assisted dying bill on 19:45 - May 14 with 1174 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 19:18 - May 14 by max936 |
They can put patients with terminal illnesses can be be put on a driver, I don't know how it works exactly, but it must be an an assist I'd have thought.
Be interesting to know, if anyone does know ? |
https://www.mariecurie.org.uk/information/symptoms/syringe-drivers
The driver can be used to deliver a sedative drug, The morphine pump mentioned earlier. is an example. |  | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:04 - May 14 with 1124 views | raynor94 |
| Assisted dying bill on 19:18 - May 14 by max936 |
They can put patients with terminal illnesses can be be put on a driver, I don't know how it works exactly, but it must be an an assist I'd have thought.
Be interesting to know, if anyone does know ? |
If the morphine driver is put on you won't have long left, it gradually increases the dose until you reach the end | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 22:34 - May 14 with 1069 views | max936 |
Cheers AJ. | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 22:38 - May 14 with 1066 views | majorraglan |
| Assisted dying bill on 19:18 - May 14 by max936 |
They can put patients with terminal illnesses can be be put on a driver, I don't know how it works exactly, but it must be an an assist I'd have thought.
Be interesting to know, if anyone does know ? |
I lost my father to cancer last year, from diagnosis to passing it was 7 weeks and as you can imagine it came as a huge shock to us all. After his initial diagnosis in hospital and a short stay, he returned home where we cared for him until his passing. His one wish was that he wouldn’t suffer pain.
His condition was managed with various medications until 4 days before he passed away when there was a sudden deterioration at which point he was placed on a syringe driver. The strength of the meds in the syringe driver is determined by the doctor overseeing the patient, in my father’s case it was the GP and the meds are only sufficient to address the patients needs at that time. The district nurse attended on a daily basis and until he went on the syringe driver I used to do the management and documenting of my father’s daily meds etc.
The district nurse service was supported by an out of hours acute response team service who would attend if we needed them on a 24/7 basis, but depending on other calls the acute response team’s attendance could be delayed. This isn’t great when you’re watching someone in distress. The problem with the syringe driver system is that doctors can’t changed the prescription in the driver and up the meds in anticipation of an increase in pain, they can only do it when the patient is showing symptoms of distress. If the patient is in a hospice or hospital where there are doctors present the change can be made almost instantaneously, when the patient is home it’s a different story. On a couple of occasions we saw dad experiencing some discomfort - it’s not pleasant and the feeling of helplessness, stress and a myriad of other emotions watching a loved one suffer is terrible.
Fortunately, dad didn’t experience too many episodes like that but it’s not always that way and some experience horrendous, tortuous passings over a long time.
Had it been lawful, I know my father would have preferred to have had the option of assisted dying because he’d witnessed loved ones suffer painful deaths and he didn’t want to experience the same thing.
There’s nothing to say assisted dying has to take place at a certain juncture, everyone is different. We had conversations about what was to come, my father was very good and stoic for the 7 weeks but he was adamant he didn’t want to suffer. He would like to have had the option of choosing when he passed and that would have been when he deteriorated and was initially placed on the syringe driver.
I’m all in favour of assisted dying - with safeguards. It really annoys me when people give religious reasons etc for not introducing assisted dying - it’s all down to choice. If it’s introduced, then people have a choice. If you don’t agree with it fine - don’t use it, but don’t tell others or stop others from doing what they want to. [Post edited 14 May 22:40]
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| Assisted dying bill on 22:54 - May 14 with 1047 views | max936 |
| Assisted dying bill on 22:38 - May 14 by majorraglan |
I lost my father to cancer last year, from diagnosis to passing it was 7 weeks and as you can imagine it came as a huge shock to us all. After his initial diagnosis in hospital and a short stay, he returned home where we cared for him until his passing. His one wish was that he wouldn’t suffer pain.
His condition was managed with various medications until 4 days before he passed away when there was a sudden deterioration at which point he was placed on a syringe driver. The strength of the meds in the syringe driver is determined by the doctor overseeing the patient, in my father’s case it was the GP and the meds are only sufficient to address the patients needs at that time. The district nurse attended on a daily basis and until he went on the syringe driver I used to do the management and documenting of my father’s daily meds etc.
The district nurse service was supported by an out of hours acute response team service who would attend if we needed them on a 24/7 basis, but depending on other calls the acute response team’s attendance could be delayed. This isn’t great when you’re watching someone in distress. The problem with the syringe driver system is that doctors can’t changed the prescription in the driver and up the meds in anticipation of an increase in pain, they can only do it when the patient is showing symptoms of distress. If the patient is in a hospice or hospital where there are doctors present the change can be made almost instantaneously, when the patient is home it’s a different story. On a couple of occasions we saw dad experiencing some discomfort - it’s not pleasant and the feeling of helplessness, stress and a myriad of other emotions watching a loved one suffer is terrible.
Fortunately, dad didn’t experience too many episodes like that but it’s not always that way and some experience horrendous, tortuous passings over a long time.
Had it been lawful, I know my father would have preferred to have had the option of assisted dying because he’d witnessed loved ones suffer painful deaths and he didn’t want to experience the same thing.
There’s nothing to say assisted dying has to take place at a certain juncture, everyone is different. We had conversations about what was to come, my father was very good and stoic for the 7 weeks but he was adamant he didn’t want to suffer. He would like to have had the option of choosing when he passed and that would have been when he deteriorated and was initially placed on the syringe driver.
I’m all in favour of assisted dying - with safeguards. It really annoys me when people give religious reasons etc for not introducing assisted dying - it’s all down to choice. If it’s introduced, then people have a choice. If you don’t agree with it fine - don’t use it, but don’t tell others or stop others from doing what they want to. [Post edited 14 May 22:40]
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I wish my Mother had, had a driver it was cruel the way she passed with a disease called PSP, she virtually dehydrated and starved to death, cruel hateful disease that she had, there's a god apparently.  | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 23:29 - May 14 with 1018 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 22:54 - May 14 by max936 |
I wish my Mother had, had a driver it was cruel the way she passed with a disease called PSP, she virtually dehydrated and starved to death, cruel hateful disease that she had, there's a god apparently. |
Horrific Ste
Don't forget do you ?
Stays with us | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 23:33 - May 14 with 1010 views | max936 |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:29 - May 14 by onehunglow |
Horrific Ste
Don't forget do you ?
Stays with us |
Never forget, everyday is a reminder, lost Dad a year later and that's the same its hard to believe I hear the phone go in my head sometimes and the same words when I used to answer I don't find it unnerving at all, just makes me smile. | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 23:36 - May 14 with 997 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 21:04 - May 14 by raynor94 |
If the morphine driver is put on you won't have long left, it gradually increases the dose until you reach the end |
This is not always the case, some come off it | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:37 - May 14 with 999 views | lifelong |
| Assisted dying bill on 09:13 - May 14 by union_jack |
My mother died a few weeks ago, we buried her yesterday. She had Stage 4 cancer and had gone through a series of procedures which were painful including a chest drain.
Her biggest fear was going into a period of extreme pain which I believe she would have done or effectively euthanised by an adequate dose of morphine.
‘Luckily’ and I mean this sincerely, she died suddenly when getting out of her hospital bed and sitting down with a physio to do some leg exercises. Gone, just like that. No one could have asked for more.
I would gladly have helped her to achieve that if it was legal. I’d have hated to see her suffer, it has no purpose when death is inevitable.
She was 90.
I do appreciate that the safeguards need to be watertight to avoid ‘foul play’ for example but at the same time need to be bureaucratically light so as to avoid excessive suffering.
In the right circumstances it is just humane.
Sorry to bring this to the site but it is appropriate I think. |
Sorry to read this UJ, it’s a very sad day when you lose your Mother. |  | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:46 - May 14 with 995 views | raynor94 |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:36 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
This is not always the case, some come off it |
Well, I'm speaking from personal experience | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 09:36 - May 15 with 903 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:46 - May 14 by raynor94 |
Well, I'm speaking from personal experience |
I appreciate this and it must have been terrible. My sympathies are with you and your family | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 15:48 - May 15 with 851 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Assisted dying bill on 18:48 - May 14 by AnotherJohn |
Most of the researchers in the area work in medical schools or medical research centres; some are medically-qualified and some are health service researchers. A few are in university nursing, social science or ethics departments. Most of the research involves talking to front line professionals. and looking at how often various end of life interventions are used. If you read the articles you will get the drift, You may have noticed that a BBC survey of a 1000 GPs reported today shows that well over half were against. A GP interviewed on the BBC News Channel this afternoon said much the same as I did about the better path being to improve palliative care. I explained already that being put on a morphine pump isn't regarded by many as true PS because some think it shortens life. My impression is that we do not use non-opioid alternatives as much in the UK as in say the Netherlands, so our carers may be reluctant to use a morphine option that does not leave the patient with long to live. That is the unfortunate way SC's sister's life ended as was the case with my mother..
Sensible people line up on both sides of the argument, but some of what was said about PS in this thread is not correct. There is a big literature in this field, but why bother with evidence when you can use personal anecdote?
Why do some doctors say PS is a better option than euthanasia? Well that is what one of the two articles I cited explains.
Edit: Last bit added because I forgot that question. [Post edited 14 May 19:58]
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My sister was a specialist oncology nurse, highly respected by her peers. She didn't want palliative sedatione because, as I said, it knocks you out and you are left laying there, unconcious, unresponsive, unaware and if the choice is that or Euthanasia, why is PS a better choice?
You have also misrepresented the GP's, about 500 of the 1000 (not well over half) who responded were against with about 400 in favour. I wish the other 4000 had all responded so we had a better idea.
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e6ww5036go
Some of those doctors said they didn't want to be nurderers which is starnge because they are then happy to be torturers. That is what people with terminal cancer who are forced to live feel like, tortured. In perpetual agony, every little movement greeted by spasms of intense pain. But you and these experts think the answer is to sedate them until they are unconcious and let them rot in bed. Never mind the effects on the living, never mind the tirture the living have to go through waiting for their loved one to die.
Have you ever sat there with a loved one waiting for them to die? I've done it 3 times and it is immensely painful, mental torture.
We call it humane to end a pets suffering yet it is not humane to end a humans suffering. Go figure. [Post edited 15 May 15:52]
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| Assisted dying bill on 13:53 - May 16 with 723 views | Boundy |
| Assisted dying bill on 15:48 - May 15 by SullutaCreturned |
My sister was a specialist oncology nurse, highly respected by her peers. She didn't want palliative sedatione because, as I said, it knocks you out and you are left laying there, unconcious, unresponsive, unaware and if the choice is that or Euthanasia, why is PS a better choice?
You have also misrepresented the GP's, about 500 of the 1000 (not well over half) who responded were against with about 400 in favour. I wish the other 4000 had all responded so we had a better idea.
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e6ww5036go
Some of those doctors said they didn't want to be nurderers which is starnge because they are then happy to be torturers. That is what people with terminal cancer who are forced to live feel like, tortured. In perpetual agony, every little movement greeted by spasms of intense pain. But you and these experts think the answer is to sedate them until they are unconcious and let them rot in bed. Never mind the effects on the living, never mind the tirture the living have to go through waiting for their loved one to die.
Have you ever sat there with a loved one waiting for them to die? I've done it 3 times and it is immensely painful, mental torture.
We call it humane to end a pets suffering yet it is not humane to end a humans suffering. Go figure. [Post edited 15 May 15:52]
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So many sad stories to read and my sympathies are with everyone who have have lost loved ones .I know some may consider my comments inappropriate but I read this week that the male lion in Folly Farm had to be put down recently due to having contracted liver failure ,his needs were met as they should have been and I do find it strange that so many terminally ill patients have to suffer a painful and unwarranted death ,I do hope that the right decision is made today and that the choice should left with the patient whenever possible but assisted death should be made available.
The last 4 years for myself has made me how consider death may come and I've told the wife that I do not want to pass suffering in pain so I do hope the option will be available when my time comes. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Assisted dying bill on 14:30 - May 16 with 715 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 13:53 - May 16 by Boundy |
So many sad stories to read and my sympathies are with everyone who have have lost loved ones .I know some may consider my comments inappropriate but I read this week that the male lion in Folly Farm had to be put down recently due to having contracted liver failure ,his needs were met as they should have been and I do find it strange that so many terminally ill patients have to suffer a painful and unwarranted death ,I do hope that the right decision is made today and that the choice should left with the patient whenever possible but assisted death should be made available.
The last 4 years for myself has made me how consider death may come and I've told the wife that I do not want to pass suffering in pain so I do hope the option will be available when my time comes. |
Don't be buggering off to the dust bowl on the sky any time soon
I've not finished with you
I've not even shown you my train set  | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 15:03 - May 16 with 705 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Assisted dying bill on 13:53 - May 16 by Boundy |
So many sad stories to read and my sympathies are with everyone who have have lost loved ones .I know some may consider my comments inappropriate but I read this week that the male lion in Folly Farm had to be put down recently due to having contracted liver failure ,his needs were met as they should have been and I do find it strange that so many terminally ill patients have to suffer a painful and unwarranted death ,I do hope that the right decision is made today and that the choice should left with the patient whenever possible but assisted death should be made available.
The last 4 years for myself has made me how consider death may come and I've told the wife that I do not want to pass suffering in pain so I do hope the option will be available when my time comes. |
I think it's highly appropriate, it is exactly the point being made, it's ok to end an animals life because they are suffering but humans HAVE to suffer for as long as possible.
I already know that if I am in that position I will be looking for the best solution. I hope to be around a good while yet but, you never know.
it may come out in my posts but this is a highly emotive issue to me and I apologise if I have been belligerent. My dear sister, it would have been her birthday Tuesday and I have been running hot all week.
Suffice to say I am strongly in favour of assisted dying as long as there are sufficient safeguards.
To others who have shared their sad stories, my thoughts are with you. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 16:54 - May 16 with 670 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 15:48 - May 15 by SullutaCreturned |
My sister was a specialist oncology nurse, highly respected by her peers. She didn't want palliative sedatione because, as I said, it knocks you out and you are left laying there, unconcious, unresponsive, unaware and if the choice is that or Euthanasia, why is PS a better choice?
You have also misrepresented the GP's, about 500 of the 1000 (not well over half) who responded were against with about 400 in favour. I wish the other 4000 had all responded so we had a better idea.
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e6ww5036go
Some of those doctors said they didn't want to be nurderers which is starnge because they are then happy to be torturers. That is what people with terminal cancer who are forced to live feel like, tortured. In perpetual agony, every little movement greeted by spasms of intense pain. But you and these experts think the answer is to sedate them until they are unconcious and let them rot in bed. Never mind the effects on the living, never mind the tirture the living have to go through waiting for their loved one to die.
Have you ever sat there with a loved one waiting for them to die? I've done it 3 times and it is immensely painful, mental torture.
We call it humane to end a pets suffering yet it is not humane to end a humans suffering. Go figure. [Post edited 15 May 15:52]
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It certainly wasn't my intention to misrepresent the results of the BBC GP poll. As I recall, the on air BBC presentation gave numbers slightly over 500 against (I think more than 10 over) and slightly more than 400 for. I should have written well over half of those who came down on one side or the other were against. The BBC have rounded the numbers in the webpage report because they realise that their poll is a fairly crude exercise.
Yes, I have seen some lingering and unpleasant deaths.. However, that is not really the point as the GPs on both sides of the argument will all have a great deal of first hand experience but still disagree. Nobody doubts that real suffering is possible - even common.
This is a huge decision akin to crossing the Rubicon, and I'm still undecided about what the law should be. The current push to change the status quo seems rushed to me and I would like a measured weighing of the arguments, If doctors assist in bringing about death that will sit uneasily with current professional ethical norms. Moreover, a world in which euthanasia becomes common would look very different. Does anybody remember the classic sci-fi film Soylent Green? | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 20:55 - May 16 with 606 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Assisted dying bill on 16:54 - May 16 by AnotherJohn |
It certainly wasn't my intention to misrepresent the results of the BBC GP poll. As I recall, the on air BBC presentation gave numbers slightly over 500 against (I think more than 10 over) and slightly more than 400 for. I should have written well over half of those who came down on one side or the other were against. The BBC have rounded the numbers in the webpage report because they realise that their poll is a fairly crude exercise.
Yes, I have seen some lingering and unpleasant deaths.. However, that is not really the point as the GPs on both sides of the argument will all have a great deal of first hand experience but still disagree. Nobody doubts that real suffering is possible - even common.
This is a huge decision akin to crossing the Rubicon, and I'm still undecided about what the law should be. The current push to change the status quo seems rushed to me and I would like a measured weighing of the arguments, If doctors assist in bringing about death that will sit uneasily with current professional ethical norms. Moreover, a world in which euthanasia becomes common would look very different. Does anybody remember the classic sci-fi film Soylent Green? |
When Caesar crossed the Rubicon he broke an ancient law and his action couldn't be reversed. This isn't akin to that, this is a decison that Westminster could change, could adjust.
the suffering is not just possible, it's very common. Go to Velindre hospital and see for yourself, the wards of people waiting to die and cancer is increasing. The GP's do they have more experience than the hospital staff, more experience than oncology staff? How many GP's are at your bedside for a month while you wait to die?
Staff in hospices have more experience.
You think it's rushed yet this has been argued for, pushed for for years. MP's are debating it over months with amendments being made.
Soylent green, a tad ridiculous don;t you think? That seems akin to scaremongering. | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:08 - May 16 with 538 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 20:55 - May 16 by SullutaCreturned |
When Caesar crossed the Rubicon he broke an ancient law and his action couldn't be reversed. This isn't akin to that, this is a decison that Westminster could change, could adjust.
the suffering is not just possible, it's very common. Go to Velindre hospital and see for yourself, the wards of people waiting to die and cancer is increasing. The GP's do they have more experience than the hospital staff, more experience than oncology staff? How many GP's are at your bedside for a month while you wait to die?
Staff in hospices have more experience.
You think it's rushed yet this has been argued for, pushed for for years. MP's are debating it over months with amendments being made.
Soylent green, a tad ridiculous don;t you think? That seems akin to scaremongering. |
As you say your personal experiences colour your views on this issue, and you are not alone in having had negative experiences. I've been to Velindre on a few occasions in a work capacity, but I must admit I've never been in a situation where I saw a patient experiencing extreme suffering, though there must have been many. As Major said, it is probably the case that the worst suffering occurs at home away from immediate medical attention, rather than in a specialist centre.
I disagree with your other points, although I accept you are entitled to your views. It is a simple fact that the bill, if enacted, would change a law that has regulated what doctors in the UK have been permitted to do since the emergence of the medical profession in its modern form. I can't think of a country that has legalised active euthanasia and then reversed that legislation. This is a huge step and that is reflected in the wider debate. I haven't said it should never happen, but merely that I want to move forward cautiously. i won't trade insults with you because that adds nothing to the discussion. [Post edited 16 May 23:18]
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| Assisted dying bill on 10:12 - May 17 with 425 views | controversial_jack |
| Assisted dying bill on 20:55 - May 16 by SullutaCreturned |
When Caesar crossed the Rubicon he broke an ancient law and his action couldn't be reversed. This isn't akin to that, this is a decison that Westminster could change, could adjust.
the suffering is not just possible, it's very common. Go to Velindre hospital and see for yourself, the wards of people waiting to die and cancer is increasing. The GP's do they have more experience than the hospital staff, more experience than oncology staff? How many GP's are at your bedside for a month while you wait to die?
Staff in hospices have more experience.
You think it's rushed yet this has been argued for, pushed for for years. MP's are debating it over months with amendments being made.
Soylent green, a tad ridiculous don;t you think? That seems akin to scaremongering. |
You are correct. Even hospices like TY Olwen, where they are experts at pain reilef, don't always manage to stop suffering and distress. This bill, obviously will have to be correct and watertight will give people a choice | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 10:32 - May 17 with 420 views | Boundy |
| Assisted dying bill on 14:30 - May 16 by onehunglow |
Don't be buggering off to the dust bowl on the sky any time soon
I've not finished with you
I've not even shown you my train set |
No intention of going anywhere yet ,just the last few years have been a stark reminder of my mortality.I do hope you mean trains and it's not a euphorism for something else 🤔 | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Assisted dying bill on 10:35 - May 17 with 415 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:33 - May 14 by max936 |
Never forget, everyday is a reminder, lost Dad a year later and that's the same its hard to believe I hear the phone go in my head sometimes and the same words when I used to answer I don't find it unnerving at all, just makes me smile. |
Too right | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 10:38 - May 17 with 414 views | onehunglow |
| Assisted dying bill on 10:32 - May 17 by Boundy |
No intention of going anywhere yet ,just the last few years have been a stark reminder of my mortality.I do hope you mean trains and it's not a euphorism for something else 🤔 |
I tried the Euphonium once
It's a big awkward bustard | |
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| Assisted dying bill on 12:26 - May 17 with 397 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Assisted dying bill on 23:08 - May 16 by AnotherJohn |
As you say your personal experiences colour your views on this issue, and you are not alone in having had negative experiences. I've been to Velindre on a few occasions in a work capacity, but I must admit I've never been in a situation where I saw a patient experiencing extreme suffering, though there must have been many. As Major said, it is probably the case that the worst suffering occurs at home away from immediate medical attention, rather than in a specialist centre.
I disagree with your other points, although I accept you are entitled to your views. It is a simple fact that the bill, if enacted, would change a law that has regulated what doctors in the UK have been permitted to do since the emergence of the medical profession in its modern form. I can't think of a country that has legalised active euthanasia and then reversed that legislation. This is a huge step and that is reflected in the wider debate. I haven't said it should never happen, but merely that I want to move forward cautiously. i won't trade insults with you because that adds nothing to the discussion. [Post edited 16 May 23:18]
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It's hardly an insult, it does seem ridiculous to suggest Soylent Greem!
My views are not coloured, they are informed by personal experience and my many (and yet too few) conversations with my sister and her colleagues.
If you've never seen anyone in Velindre in agony I would say you haven't been there ofyen enough or looked close enough. There will be more than a few who are doped to the eyeballs and possibly unconcious because of that. I went there to visit my sister (carer becoming the cared for) nd in my near 2 hours in there I saw people being wheeled past in obvious agony, my sister in her room was in agony and could barely move.
If no country has reversed it's legislation, that doesn't prove it cannot happen but maybe it suggests that it actually works.
Part of the changes to the bill has been that no medical professional can be forced to take part in assisting a death.
Maybe a good thing to do would be a close look at the Swiss law on this? Humanists UK states that "the total number of UK citizens who ended their life in Switzerland from 2015-18 was 233 - more than one a week. The total number of UK citizens who are members of an assisted dying organisation in Switzerland 1,464"
So there are hundreds of people in enough suffering that they fly abroad to end their pain, away from home, family and friends. More suffering for all involved.
Honest question, are you religious? | | | |
| Assisted dying bill on 08:03 - May 18 with 315 views | AnotherJohn |
| Assisted dying bill on 12:26 - May 17 by SullutaCreturned |
It's hardly an insult, it does seem ridiculous to suggest Soylent Greem!
My views are not coloured, they are informed by personal experience and my many (and yet too few) conversations with my sister and her colleagues.
If you've never seen anyone in Velindre in agony I would say you haven't been there ofyen enough or looked close enough. There will be more than a few who are doped to the eyeballs and possibly unconcious because of that. I went there to visit my sister (carer becoming the cared for) nd in my near 2 hours in there I saw people being wheeled past in obvious agony, my sister in her room was in agony and could barely move.
If no country has reversed it's legislation, that doesn't prove it cannot happen but maybe it suggests that it actually works.
Part of the changes to the bill has been that no medical professional can be forced to take part in assisting a death.
Maybe a good thing to do would be a close look at the Swiss law on this? Humanists UK states that "the total number of UK citizens who ended their life in Switzerland from 2015-18 was 233 - more than one a week. The total number of UK citizens who are members of an assisted dying organisation in Switzerland 1,464"
So there are hundreds of people in enough suffering that they fly abroad to end their pain, away from home, family and friends. More suffering for all involved.
Honest question, are you religious? |
I am not a religious person, and I think it is a mistake to think that most who have doubts about the present bill are concerned only about religious doctrine. My worry is that the proposed legislation may have unintended consequences that haven't been properly thought through. Read the impact assessment together with the statements from the various Royal Colleges. You may not agree with all the worries raised but it is hard to deny that the changes in care practices would be complicated, emotionally-charged and have big resource implications.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/terminally-ill-adults-end-of-life-bil
https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/news-and-features/latest-news/detail/2025/05/13/the-rc
https://www.rcp.ac.uk/policy-and-campaigns/policy-documents/rcp-position-stateme
https://www.rcgp.org.uk/News/Assisted-dying-legislation
I won't be adding anything to this thread now, as I've said my piece. | | | |
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