| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 19:17 - Jul 28 with 1937 views | eastside_r |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 18:38 - Jul 28 by Beans |
You’re obfuscating. Going off on a tangent as normal to get away from the point at hand. Let’s look at your four points briefly that you tried to get away from the topic on before reverting back to what I actually raised.
1) club site bit. Clearly silly. As I said, legitimate criticism of course all for it but making stuff up is what I have taken issue with
2) entirely irrelevant points raised by you. None of them address the specific point being made here about you pushing a false narrative about how Cifuentes left the club
3) you making a point that you can only see truth from a circle of 4 people and anything outside of that you instantly dismiss seems an oddly and close minded stance. To then add that saying if you annoy people outside of these 4 then that’s it’s evidence you are doing your job well is an even stranger point to make
4) would say let’s see if any of that’s a fair comment by having a look at that in the context of the point being made
The paragraph being focused on in your article was:
“Social media has drunk the Kool-Aid, Cifuentes is a snake who was never that good in the first place, but that’s not the prevailing attitude among the travellers I’ve interacted with this summer. You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better. Among the home and awayers there’s a deal of arm folding and “go on then”, whereas before there was understanding about budgetary rest”
For you now to present this as you just echoing other people’s opinion as if this isn’t actually your own opinion isn’t something I believe. I would say it fits with the stance you have presented consistently since Cifuentes left
You begin the paragraph with an insinuation that if you aren’t still sore about Marti moving on and a new manager being here then you have “drunk the Kool Aid”. Now to stop on this point for a second to explain myself and why this bothers me is that I think people on this board like Rsole as a good example are like the Boomers reading the Daily Mail I referred to being fed bad opinions. Someone like Rsole reads that KoolAid statement as a signal that the in group opinion is to be unhappy about it still and it important to dwell on in a negative way so that you haven’t “drunk the KoolAid”: so to reinforce that Rsole just pipes in with an insult, without adding anything useful to the debate here so he can signal to the group he follows the accepted view point on here. Others a less vocal but the point remains the same they read that and are influenced to take on a certain belief
You go on to present the opposing view as, “You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better” and you frame this in the context of it being the belief of the home and awayers which is a more positive group to be seen in by those that care, most obviously the likes of Rsole care but it’s natural for others to absorb this info just like a boomer reading the Daily Mail.
Now this would all be fine, if it were true and Marti was an innocent victim and if he had it his way he would still be here is just silly. This position of yours I thought had ended with the Leicester deal but still now you are trying to push this narrative even if now your tactic is to dress it up as the opinion of the in group.
I am all for challenging the club over genuine mistakes. I agree it’s a fair concern about us being more open in midfield and Walsh coming in for Nardi. But I am not for you reinforcing a myth that Marti was an innocent party and not acting in his own interests against the clubs to get a move as he did
If you could address that point was Marti an innocent party as you so often present, or you could just go off on a tangent and start talking about things other posters said over the last 6-12 months you disagreed with instead |
I ask again what did Cifuentes do wrong?
If you're just a fan, you're free to let us know (your version.)
If you're Christian Nourry or someone working for him at the club, WTF are you doing on here trolling Clive.
Put up or F*ck Off. [Post edited 28 Jul 19:20]
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 19:33 - Jul 28 with 1863 views | Rsole |
I think that pretty much everyone who frequents the forum and read the original article was very happy reliving the experience and if they weren’t there, finding out how others experienced it - as fans. Only you seem to have picked on something that suits your agenda.
To have someone who doesn’t really contribute suddenly chip in out of the blue to pick up on a single point that doesn’t suit the club, quite frankly takes the piss.
But then what would you expect from the monkey when the organ grinder isn’t available. Must be difficult being the messenger and mouth piece for a insecure CEO - but I guess it’s even harder to find a job with some personal standards, so you grace us with your presence when it suits you, without ever contributing to the wider issues.
I’d take a long hard look in the mirror before casting aspersions, CharlieBeans. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 20:12 - Jul 28 with 1769 views | terryb |
Well, Mr. Beans, as a "boomer" (I'm assuming you're referring to My Generation), I take great exception at being told I read/believe right wing trash like The Daily Mail!
Along with that, I also don't automatically believe everything on social media, politicians or PR statements/interviews. At times these turn out to be true, but very often they are not. I do not expect to be too informed by Cifuentes, Stephan, Nourry etc of anything of consequence either!
I also don't understand what heinous crime that Cifuentes carried out & why he wasn't dismissed without pay IF he had broken his contract.
You've been asked this question many times, but we're all still awaiting an answer from you. It would also be nice to know on what basis do you dispute that the "home & awayers" are not still pro Cifuentes?
Once again, I will state that I'm certain that Marti had to leave the club & I'm pleased that a conclusion was reached, but you will have to go some to persuade me that the split was all down to the manager, rather than "fault " on both sides. [Post edited 29 Jul 9:40]
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 20:23 - Jul 28 with 1723 views | gigiisourgod |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 14:13 - Jul 28 by Beans |
When you say, “Social media has drunk the Kool-Aid, Cifuentes is a snake who was never that good in the first place, but that’s not the prevailing attitude among the travellers I’ve interacted with this summer. You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better. Among the home and awayers there’s a deal of arm folding and “go on then”, whereas before there was understanding about budgetary restrictions”
That really irritates me and IIfind it so bizarre that you push a narrative that Cifuentes was an innocent party who was forced out of the club and sacked because surely you know that isn’t true. As you know that what the club did was take steps to protect their rights to compensation and they succeeded in that and got £500,000 plus what ever we got for Xavi Calm on top.
Did you not see the story in the Sun where Cifuentes suggested he may quit? Did you not see WLS reporting that the clubs steps were taken to protect our rights to compensation which they were successful in? Do you really believe WLS are wrong in their reporting and that Cifuentes wasn’t looking to drive down or get rid of entirely the compensation fee we would be owed this summer with a list of jobs for him to pitch himself, Norwich, West Brom and then Leicester. Because if not, why present it here as “You sack a popular manager doing his job”?
You say the difference is between social media and the home and awayers. But what you’ve left out there is it’s largely also a difference between those that go on this message board and those that don’t. It’s a common trope for people to complain that papers like the Daily Mail feed Boomers bad opinions and ultimately you are doing exactly the same thing here. As someone reading an article of yours like this one here might have the opinion that Cifuentes was an innocent party who was forced out by Nourry and not someone acting in his own best interests and maximising his chances of moving to a bigger club with a bigger budget.
For you to persistently spin Cifuentes leaving as a one sided story “sacking a popular manager doing his job” and leave out the other side to tee up a section of the fan base to be itching to jump on the team if it doesn’t get better than it was (which was 2 wins in Cifuentes last 12) well I think it’s just pretty awful really. We saw last season culminating in the Stoke how important it is for the fan base to stick with the team.
The reason all this irritates me is because it can ultimately cost the club and it is based on a false premise that Cifuentes is an innocent party who would otherwise still be here if we hadn’t put him in the garden.
We are the club with what Nourry said on the WLS podcast last week the third smallest wage bill. And you have said yourself the league table is largely a reflection of wage bill. So if a section of the fan base are waiting for things to go wrong (as we know for some run of games this season they will) so they can pill on and turn things toxic and potentially contribute to instability that costs us points this season. That could send us down as with the third smallest wage bill we can’t afford as a fan base to needlessly contribute to instability. We can be looking backwards at a manager based on a false narrative and who anyway is now at a parachute payment club.
We need to stick together. We are one of the smallest budgets this season. We are unfancied. The league one clubs are coming up even and spending fortunes. We need to back the team and not be looking to cry off about Cifuentes when we lose a couple of games. Please stop pushing this false narrative. Cifuentes is gone and he was never going to be here for this season. Let’s back the team. We’ve got a job on our hands and let’s not needlessly destabilise things |
Oh no, not beans again. | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 20:46 - Jul 28 with 1643 views | slmrstid |
I didn't think we'd have to go through all this again 20 years on.
QBlockBeans, when does he get his drum? |  | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:00 - Jul 28 with 1590 views | derbyhoop |
Cifuentes wasn't a complete innocent and, if he encouraged his representatives to speak to WBA then his commitment to QPR was highly doubtful. However, I suspect the fall out with CN went back to earlier. And the real reasons are unknown.
For me and, I suspect many others, he was popular with the fan base because he did an excellent job with the available resources and budget.
I don't think it does any fan a favour by coming down on 1 side or the other. Neither does it help to read uncritical posts about the ultimate winner in the MC/CN fight.
It is time to hope Stephan improves on Marti's legacy, without dismissing his work, in an attempt to support the man child CEO. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:08 - Jul 28 with 1566 views | KensalT |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 14:13 - Jul 28 by Beans |
When you say, “Social media has drunk the Kool-Aid, Cifuentes is a snake who was never that good in the first place, but that’s not the prevailing attitude among the travellers I’ve interacted with this summer. You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better. Among the home and awayers there’s a deal of arm folding and “go on then”, whereas before there was understanding about budgetary restrictions”
That really irritates me and IIfind it so bizarre that you push a narrative that Cifuentes was an innocent party who was forced out of the club and sacked because surely you know that isn’t true. As you know that what the club did was take steps to protect their rights to compensation and they succeeded in that and got £500,000 plus what ever we got for Xavi Calm on top.
Did you not see the story in the Sun where Cifuentes suggested he may quit? Did you not see WLS reporting that the clubs steps were taken to protect our rights to compensation which they were successful in? Do you really believe WLS are wrong in their reporting and that Cifuentes wasn’t looking to drive down or get rid of entirely the compensation fee we would be owed this summer with a list of jobs for him to pitch himself, Norwich, West Brom and then Leicester. Because if not, why present it here as “You sack a popular manager doing his job”?
You say the difference is between social media and the home and awayers. But what you’ve left out there is it’s largely also a difference between those that go on this message board and those that don’t. It’s a common trope for people to complain that papers like the Daily Mail feed Boomers bad opinions and ultimately you are doing exactly the same thing here. As someone reading an article of yours like this one here might have the opinion that Cifuentes was an innocent party who was forced out by Nourry and not someone acting in his own best interests and maximising his chances of moving to a bigger club with a bigger budget.
For you to persistently spin Cifuentes leaving as a one sided story “sacking a popular manager doing his job” and leave out the other side to tee up a section of the fan base to be itching to jump on the team if it doesn’t get better than it was (which was 2 wins in Cifuentes last 12) well I think it’s just pretty awful really. We saw last season culminating in the Stoke how important it is for the fan base to stick with the team.
The reason all this irritates me is because it can ultimately cost the club and it is based on a false premise that Cifuentes is an innocent party who would otherwise still be here if we hadn’t put him in the garden.
We are the club with what Nourry said on the WLS podcast last week the third smallest wage bill. And you have said yourself the league table is largely a reflection of wage bill. So if a section of the fan base are waiting for things to go wrong (as we know for some run of games this season they will) so they can pill on and turn things toxic and potentially contribute to instability that costs us points this season. That could send us down as with the third smallest wage bill we can’t afford as a fan base to needlessly contribute to instability. We can be looking backwards at a manager based on a false narrative and who anyway is now at a parachute payment club.
We need to stick together. We are one of the smallest budgets this season. We are unfancied. The league one clubs are coming up even and spending fortunes. We need to back the team and not be looking to cry off about Cifuentes when we lose a couple of games. Please stop pushing this false narrative. Cifuentes is gone and he was never going to be here for this season. Let’s back the team. We’ve got a job on our hands and let’s not needlessly destabilise things |
I really don't get what point you're trying to make here.
The exact facts around Marti's departure aren't public knowledge and aren't likely to be made public.
Whether he jumped or was pushed the truth remains that he was a popular manager who will be a tough act to follow.
That might be unfair on Julien Stephan but it is the way of the world and would be the same for any new manager at any club tasked with replacing a popular predecessor.
I'm sure Julien Stephan has assessed the situation and backed himself to come in and succeed anyway.
Good luck to him. [Post edited 28 Jul 21:10]
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:38 - Jul 28 with 1482 views | Hunterhoop |
Haven’t posted for a while, but will jump in here as there is a deliberate distortion of reality and the situation faced by the club by Beans here…and he no doubt knows this.
What Clive wrote is not false. It is true. Cifuentes was popular with fans. True. He was removed from his role by the club. That is true. The evaluation that this will put pressure on the DOF regards the success of the successor is an opinion, but it is a reasonable one. If you understand the concept of accountability at all, you would surely agree with that opinion.
All this stuff about protecting the club’s comp is utter guff. The best way to protect the comp was to not put him on garden leave at all. If his agent was successful with West Brom, or Leics, or whoever, they’d come knocking and you’d receive or more likely renegotiate the comp. Cifuentes would be owed nothing. The club pockets the comp. Financial upside.
By putting Cifuentes on garden leave, the club has had to pay his contract off, or, at the very least negotiate a settlement agreement (formerly a compromise agreement), but that still involves paying him off. If there was any evidence he had breached his contract with serious misconduct the club could have sacked him and not had to pay him anything. Clearly Nourry would have done that if he could. I suspect garden leave was an attempt to give him time to explore this, but, unsurprisingly it wasn’t advised. That’s my speculation though.
However, because we didn’t sack him and put him on garden leave instead whilst we hired a replacement, we almost certainly gave Cifuentes money. This was also backed up by reporting in the press that Cifuentes put forward some of his pay off for Leicester to pay the comp to QPR.
The point isn’t “was garden leave better than just sacking him?”, it was “was garden leave the best choice for the club of: leave him in post, garden leave, or sack him?”
This is a matter of opinion. Clive is entitled to his, as is Beans, as is everyone. Financially, the undeniable best decision would have been to leave him in post. We would likely have received the comp with no payment to Cifuentes at all. Or, no one would take him, and we continue into this season with a head coach who, at the very least, par the course given we apparently have the 3rd lowest budget in the league (I believe this is hyperbole and it’s about the 6th/7th lowest, but the point stands).
What I will say is that it is total tosh that his agent speaking to West Brom was enough for us to need to pick options 2 or 3 above. It’s naive to believe this, Did Hammerby put him on garden leave when we spoke with his agent whilst he was their manager? No. They kept him on. Everyone speaks to everyone in football. Agents of players and coaches are always speaking to other clubs to sound them out. It’s the game. Using Nourry’s own words from the WLS interview, “don’t hate the player, hate the game”. Nourry himself admitted in that interview he speaks to agents of other players and coaches not at QPR. It’s the industry.
What I believe to be the reality is that Nourry was desperate to get rid of Cifuentes. We all know the relationship had broken down. If you weren’t sure, Cifuentes’s last press conference and the subsequent Sun article confirmed this. Many of us have been given inside information that Ruben slapped Nourry down when he wanted to sack Cifuentes in Nov before our form picked up. Many of us have been made aware Nourry had hired a PR agency to manage the inevitable exit.
Removing Cifuentes is entirely within the remit of Nourry. He’s allowed to make that call. Indeed, he’s paid to make it. It might turn out to be the right call. We shall see. Nourry now has what he wants. His own head coach (as he did not identify and select Cifuentes), his own structure on the playing side in place, mainly with his own hires, full control of it all. He is now very much accountable for how things go. I genuinely hope it goes brilliantly. I’m sure Clive does. I think all QPR fans want that. But, if it goes south, only one man can and should take the blame.
Back to Beans’ post therefore, there is nothing wrong with Clive’s assessment that the action of placing Cifuentes of garden leave (effectively exiting him), when he was popular with fans (before all the garden leave nonsense, where his agent talking to West Brom never needed to become public, but was put in that domain by QPR) means that Nourry has put pressure on himself (he’s accountable) regarding how things go this season. It might be uncomfortable but it’s a pretty reasonable assessment.
It certainly doesn’t warrant that post from Beans, which screams insecurity, a screw loose, or a personal involvement in such a decision… [Post edited 28 Jul 21:55]
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:41 - Jul 28 with 1466 views | Hunterhoop |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:08 - Jul 28 by KensalT |
I really don't get what point you're trying to make here.
The exact facts around Marti's departure aren't public knowledge and aren't likely to be made public.
Whether he jumped or was pushed the truth remains that he was a popular manager who will be a tough act to follow.
That might be unfair on Julien Stephan but it is the way of the world and would be the same for any new manager at any club tasked with replacing a popular predecessor.
I'm sure Julien Stephan has assessed the situation and backed himself to come in and succeed anyway.
Good luck to him. [Post edited 28 Jul 21:10]
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Indeed. We all wish Stephan good luck. He seems like a good person and a good hire. We all hope that is true.
He might have to learn some of the same lessons Cifuentes did (e.g. trying to play a high press with this squad, playing a 2 man midfield with a 10, playing 3 attacking midfielders who don’t track back or tackle much, playing Celar, etc, etc)…which is a concern (always the case when a new coach replaces one who had had to learn such lessons). Maybe he’ll find a way to make it work in a way Cifuentes never could. Here is hoping! If he can’t, I don’t think I’ll blame him, I think I’ll blame the game model… | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:44 - Jul 28 with 1454 views | BristolR |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 18:38 - Jul 28 by Beans |
You’re obfuscating. Going off on a tangent as normal to get away from the point at hand. Let’s look at your four points briefly that you tried to get away from the topic on before reverting back to what I actually raised.
1) club site bit. Clearly silly. As I said, legitimate criticism of course all for it but making stuff up is what I have taken issue with
2) entirely irrelevant points raised by you. None of them address the specific point being made here about you pushing a false narrative about how Cifuentes left the club
3) you making a point that you can only see truth from a circle of 4 people and anything outside of that you instantly dismiss seems an oddly and close minded stance. To then add that saying if you annoy people outside of these 4 then that’s it’s evidence you are doing your job well is an even stranger point to make
4) would say let’s see if any of that’s a fair comment by having a look at that in the context of the point being made
The paragraph being focused on in your article was:
“Social media has drunk the Kool-Aid, Cifuentes is a snake who was never that good in the first place, but that’s not the prevailing attitude among the travellers I’ve interacted with this summer. You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better. Among the home and awayers there’s a deal of arm folding and “go on then”, whereas before there was understanding about budgetary rest”
For you now to present this as you just echoing other people’s opinion as if this isn’t actually your own opinion isn’t something I believe. I would say it fits with the stance you have presented consistently since Cifuentes left
You begin the paragraph with an insinuation that if you aren’t still sore about Marti moving on and a new manager being here then you have “drunk the Kool Aid”. Now to stop on this point for a second to explain myself and why this bothers me is that I think people on this board like Rsole as a good example are like the Boomers reading the Daily Mail I referred to being fed bad opinions. Someone like Rsole reads that KoolAid statement as a signal that the in group opinion is to be unhappy about it still and it important to dwell on in a negative way so that you haven’t “drunk the KoolAid”: so to reinforce that Rsole just pipes in with an insult, without adding anything useful to the debate here so he can signal to the group he follows the accepted view point on here. Others a less vocal but the point remains the same they read that and are influenced to take on a certain belief
You go on to present the opposing view as, “You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better” and you frame this in the context of it being the belief of the home and awayers which is a more positive group to be seen in by those that care, most obviously the likes of Rsole care but it’s natural for others to absorb this info just like a boomer reading the Daily Mail.
Now this would all be fine, if it were true and Marti was an innocent victim and if he had it his way he would still be here is just silly. This position of yours I thought had ended with the Leicester deal but still now you are trying to push this narrative even if now your tactic is to dress it up as the opinion of the in group.
I am all for challenging the club over genuine mistakes. I agree it’s a fair concern about us being more open in midfield and Walsh coming in for Nardi. But I am not for you reinforcing a myth that Marti was an innocent party and not acting in his own interests against the clubs to get a move as he did
If you could address that point was Marti an innocent party as you so often present, or you could just go off on a tangent and start talking about things other posters said over the last 6-12 months you disagreed with instead |
I don’t normally jump in on these type of thrashing arounds, but Beans, what the actual fvck are you talking about?! I think most of us read the piece for what it is…another excellent, witty and informative knockabout mostly in relation to Clive’s love of France and QPR…the fact he is mentioning Señor Cifuentes is merely a reflection of what the chat is at the ground.
You seem to want to go a long way to discredit and pull apart a tiny seam out of a 3500 word piece, which rather suggests you are more fixated with the issue than anyone else on here.
So in summary, turn it the fvck in you plum |  | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:46 - Jul 28 with 1445 views | BristolR |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 19:33 - Jul 28 by Rsole |
I think that pretty much everyone who frequents the forum and read the original article was very happy reliving the experience and if they weren’t there, finding out how others experienced it - as fans. Only you seem to have picked on something that suits your agenda.
To have someone who doesn’t really contribute suddenly chip in out of the blue to pick up on a single point that doesn’t suit the club, quite frankly takes the piss.
But then what would you expect from the monkey when the organ grinder isn’t available. Must be difficult being the messenger and mouth piece for a insecure CEO - but I guess it’s even harder to find a job with some personal standards, so you grace us with your presence when it suits you, without ever contributing to the wider issues.
I’d take a long hard look in the mirror before casting aspersions, CharlieBeans. |
Duck with brie 1 -Beans on Toast 0 | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:02 - Jul 28 with 1388 views | FDC |
Lovely piece Clive thank you. I've always enjoyed the whimsy of LFW Away Days. |  | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:05 - Jul 28 with 1380 views | EastR |
The ghostly prints of the Hand of Hoos | |
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:48 - Jul 28 with 1260 views | Beans |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 21:38 - Jul 28 by Hunterhoop |
Haven’t posted for a while, but will jump in here as there is a deliberate distortion of reality and the situation faced by the club by Beans here…and he no doubt knows this.
What Clive wrote is not false. It is true. Cifuentes was popular with fans. True. He was removed from his role by the club. That is true. The evaluation that this will put pressure on the DOF regards the success of the successor is an opinion, but it is a reasonable one. If you understand the concept of accountability at all, you would surely agree with that opinion.
All this stuff about protecting the club’s comp is utter guff. The best way to protect the comp was to not put him on garden leave at all. If his agent was successful with West Brom, or Leics, or whoever, they’d come knocking and you’d receive or more likely renegotiate the comp. Cifuentes would be owed nothing. The club pockets the comp. Financial upside.
By putting Cifuentes on garden leave, the club has had to pay his contract off, or, at the very least negotiate a settlement agreement (formerly a compromise agreement), but that still involves paying him off. If there was any evidence he had breached his contract with serious misconduct the club could have sacked him and not had to pay him anything. Clearly Nourry would have done that if he could. I suspect garden leave was an attempt to give him time to explore this, but, unsurprisingly it wasn’t advised. That’s my speculation though.
However, because we didn’t sack him and put him on garden leave instead whilst we hired a replacement, we almost certainly gave Cifuentes money. This was also backed up by reporting in the press that Cifuentes put forward some of his pay off for Leicester to pay the comp to QPR.
The point isn’t “was garden leave better than just sacking him?”, it was “was garden leave the best choice for the club of: leave him in post, garden leave, or sack him?”
This is a matter of opinion. Clive is entitled to his, as is Beans, as is everyone. Financially, the undeniable best decision would have been to leave him in post. We would likely have received the comp with no payment to Cifuentes at all. Or, no one would take him, and we continue into this season with a head coach who, at the very least, par the course given we apparently have the 3rd lowest budget in the league (I believe this is hyperbole and it’s about the 6th/7th lowest, but the point stands).
What I will say is that it is total tosh that his agent speaking to West Brom was enough for us to need to pick options 2 or 3 above. It’s naive to believe this, Did Hammerby put him on garden leave when we spoke with his agent whilst he was their manager? No. They kept him on. Everyone speaks to everyone in football. Agents of players and coaches are always speaking to other clubs to sound them out. It’s the game. Using Nourry’s own words from the WLS interview, “don’t hate the player, hate the game”. Nourry himself admitted in that interview he speaks to agents of other players and coaches not at QPR. It’s the industry.
What I believe to be the reality is that Nourry was desperate to get rid of Cifuentes. We all know the relationship had broken down. If you weren’t sure, Cifuentes’s last press conference and the subsequent Sun article confirmed this. Many of us have been given inside information that Ruben slapped Nourry down when he wanted to sack Cifuentes in Nov before our form picked up. Many of us have been made aware Nourry had hired a PR agency to manage the inevitable exit.
Removing Cifuentes is entirely within the remit of Nourry. He’s allowed to make that call. Indeed, he’s paid to make it. It might turn out to be the right call. We shall see. Nourry now has what he wants. His own head coach (as he did not identify and select Cifuentes), his own structure on the playing side in place, mainly with his own hires, full control of it all. He is now very much accountable for how things go. I genuinely hope it goes brilliantly. I’m sure Clive does. I think all QPR fans want that. But, if it goes south, only one man can and should take the blame.
Back to Beans’ post therefore, there is nothing wrong with Clive’s assessment that the action of placing Cifuentes of garden leave (effectively exiting him), when he was popular with fans (before all the garden leave nonsense, where his agent talking to West Brom never needed to become public, but was put in that domain by QPR) means that Nourry has put pressure on himself (he’s accountable) regarding how things go this season. It might be uncomfortable but it’s a pretty reasonable assessment.
It certainly doesn’t warrant that post from Beans, which screams insecurity, a screw loose, or a personal involvement in such a decision… [Post edited 28 Jul 21:55]
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You’ve missed out one crucial part that haven’t you which makes your whole response void. If Cifuentes was to resign as he had publicly suggested he might then we wouldn’t have got any compensation would we. So try answering again with that context in mind
And a hilariously hierarchical viewpoint from Rsole right on brand. That’s great!! | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 23:03 - Jul 28 with 1209 views | KensalT |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:48 - Jul 28 by Beans |
You’ve missed out one crucial part that haven’t you which makes your whole response void. If Cifuentes was to resign as he had publicly suggested he might then we wouldn’t have got any compensation would we. So try answering again with that context in mind
And a hilariously hierarchical viewpoint from Rsole right on brand. That’s great!! |
I can answer that for you.
It's called a restraint of trade clause.
It allows an employer to prevent an employee joining a direct competitor after their employment ends.
They're quite common for key employees such as, oh I don't know, managers of competitive sports teams.
QPR could have used this as leverage to get compensation for him joining Leicester, even if he had resigned:
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/restraint-of-trade/
"Restraint of trade clauses are usually introduced at the outset of the employment cycle, within an employee’s contract of employment, especially in the context of skilled and senior employees who are key to the overall success of a business. This can help to deter these individuals from competing against their former employer if they resign or their employment is otherwise terminated, either by setting up a similar business or by going to work for a direct competitor. Equally, this type of clause can be used to stop these individuals from taking with them other key employees, or valuable business through clients and suppliers." | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 23:23 - Jul 28 with 1159 views | 1JD |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:48 - Jul 28 by Beans |
You’ve missed out one crucial part that haven’t you which makes your whole response void. If Cifuentes was to resign as he had publicly suggested he might then we wouldn’t have got any compensation would we. So try answering again with that context in mind
And a hilariously hierarchical viewpoint from Rsole right on brand. That’s great!! |
Cifuentes never suggested publicly he would resign. You are either making it up as you go along. Or you are a very senior club mole (obvious who) getting confused about private internal club discussions, and publicly available media interviews.
Which is what happens when you try and control a narrative and spin it in your favour.
What he actually said is he would stay if the club wanted him to do so. To be precise, in the penultimate game of the season: “I’ve said before that as long as I’m wanted, I’m very happy”, and “in any case, I am very calm about the job I have done… I’m an ambitious person… I enjoy my job here.. and I’m ready for more”. | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 23:26 - Jul 28 with 1151 views | Hunterhoop |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:48 - Jul 28 by Beans |
You’ve missed out one crucial part that haven’t you which makes your whole response void. If Cifuentes was to resign as he had publicly suggested he might then we wouldn’t have got any compensation would we. So try answering again with that context in mind
And a hilariously hierarchical viewpoint from Rsole right on brand. That’s great!! |
See Kensal’s post. Cifuentes resigning wouldn’t have stopped comp being payable with a contractually determined length of time.
Also, Cifuentes did not openly talk of resigning. Only the game before he sacked he walked around the ground saying he wanted to stay. And the last press conference he said he wanted to stay. | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 00:02 - Jul 29 with 1080 views | mart_Goblin |
A throw away line in a brilliant and funny piece about a trip to France, and we get this paranoid, completely over the top and simply false load of old cobblers .
More intelligent people than me have had their say on this thread so I don’t have much to add .
But it always strikes me as strange that the people who feel most strongly in favour of Marti’s departure are the ones who talk endlessly about him.
No one read Clive’s piece and pondered more than a second or a chuckle longer, over ‘gardening leave’ , False narratives or obvious club propaganda . It was about QPR fans enjoying a trip away …for once .
Until Beans vomited all over this thread .
It’s people like Beans that divides the fan base , not Clive talking about Barnet Greenway ( I read that and immediately thought of Napalm Death ..google it ) |  | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 01:29 - Jul 29 with 997 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Oh Beans! You just get worse and worse at your job.
The arrogant condescension is reaching new levels. Thicko, naive boomers who can't think for themselves, believe everything the Daily Mail tells them all being led astray by a few lines in beautiful 3500 word piece on the joys of France in the Summer and a bit of football thrown in.
Are you serious?
I'm trying to get excited by the new signings, manager and season to come. I even posted on the Kelman thread praising the business done by your boss in comparison to previous times.
But don't you realise every time you post like this you are making it harder to like and support him? Genuinely. Now I know he thinks I'm a thick, can't think for myself sheep. Charming. How is that setting a tone to make me more supportive of him in the future? It's not is it. I am clearly not alone in this.
You are having the complete opposite effect on people that you are being paid to have.
It's madness that he keeps sending you. Please stop as I really do want to support what he is doing but every time I see your ridiculous, consistently charmless and unpleasant work it makes it much harder as you are such a terrible representative. |  | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 06:36 - Jul 29 with 891 views | Rsole |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 22:48 - Jul 28 by Beans |
You’ve missed out one crucial part that haven’t you which makes your whole response void. If Cifuentes was to resign as he had publicly suggested he might then we wouldn’t have got any compensation would we. So try answering again with that context in mind
And a hilariously hierarchical viewpoint from Rsole right on brand. That’s great!! |
I’ll add those compliments to my CV, Beans.
Hierarchical AND a brand, you made my day,
Thank you very much, delicious. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 08:01 - Jul 29 with 789 views | Beans |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 23:23 - Jul 28 by 1JD |
Cifuentes never suggested publicly he would resign. You are either making it up as you go along. Or you are a very senior club mole (obvious who) getting confused about private internal club discussions, and publicly available media interviews.
Which is what happens when you try and control a narrative and spin it in your favour.
What he actually said is he would stay if the club wanted him to do so. To be precise, in the penultimate game of the season: “I’ve said before that as long as I’m wanted, I’m very happy”, and “in any case, I am very calm about the job I have done… I’m an ambitious person… I enjoy my job here.. and I’m ready for more”. |
JD did you miss the article in the Sun as well? That was a public statement from Cifuentes via a proxy
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/34606998/qpr-manager-marti-cifuentes-quit/
Had Cifuentes resigned before preseason it would have impacted the compensation and so the clubs took the steps to protect what was owed. I remain happy to follow the reporting from WLS on this as opposed to Kensal T’s
My original point stands, Cifuentes was not an innocent victim who would still be here had we not “sacked him”. He’s at Leicester now. So framing it like “You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better” is just wrong.
Cifuentes was always leaving and we’ve got the best manager of the bunch available to us and our budget so it’s important to move on and support the team in the way we did last year
How any of that is controversial and enough to be told to fck off and various names, it seems Schopenhauer and Nietzsche writing about The Herd fit well here | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 08:29 - Jul 29 with 752 views | ngbqpr |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 08:01 - Jul 29 by Beans |
JD did you miss the article in the Sun as well? That was a public statement from Cifuentes via a proxy
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/34606998/qpr-manager-marti-cifuentes-quit/
Had Cifuentes resigned before preseason it would have impacted the compensation and so the clubs took the steps to protect what was owed. I remain happy to follow the reporting from WLS on this as opposed to Kensal T’s
My original point stands, Cifuentes was not an innocent victim who would still be here had we not “sacked him”. He’s at Leicester now. So framing it like “You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better” is just wrong.
Cifuentes was always leaving and we’ve got the best manager of the bunch available to us and our budget so it’s important to move on and support the team in the way we did last year
How any of that is controversial and enough to be told to fck off and various names, it seems Schopenhauer and Nietzsche writing about The Herd fit well here |
Read the room Beans and chill the fk out.
As others have stated, you've killed a thread about a hilarious, lighthearted report on a euro pre-season awayday.
And before you come back with the stock "it's a messageboard can't we debate / have different opinions" schtick - yes, we can, but think time & place. Had Clive done a long piece on hopes & expectations for the new season, referencing the messy end to the old one, and suggesting Nourry had put pressure on himself...well then your post above would have fitted in (tho the patronising tone still would have riled many, I'm sure). |  |
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| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 09:01 - Jul 29 with 679 views | Hunterhoop |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 08:01 - Jul 29 by Beans |
JD did you miss the article in the Sun as well? That was a public statement from Cifuentes via a proxy
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/34606998/qpr-manager-marti-cifuentes-quit/
Had Cifuentes resigned before preseason it would have impacted the compensation and so the clubs took the steps to protect what was owed. I remain happy to follow the reporting from WLS on this as opposed to Kensal T’s
My original point stands, Cifuentes was not an innocent victim who would still be here had we not “sacked him”. He’s at Leicester now. So framing it like “You sack a popular manager doing his job, and the expectation that places on you is you’ve got to improve and get better” is just wrong.
Cifuentes was always leaving and we’ve got the best manager of the bunch available to us and our budget so it’s important to move on and support the team in the way we did last year
How any of that is controversial and enough to be told to fck off and various names, it seems Schopenhauer and Nietzsche writing about The Herd fit well here |
Conveniently ignoring the fact that any resignation (which he did not threaten) would not have removed the club’s right to compensation should any one else have employed him.
You don’t seem to understand how these things work. Had he been in employment and someone wanted to hire him he would have to resign, even if compensation had been agreed between QPR and that club. Legally, he would need to resign from his employment with us. So the comp clause in the employment contract would absolutely protect us on the comp from resignation. It wouldn’t be indefinitely; it would be for a period of time. But his employment contract was only for a period of time. | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 09:02 - Jul 29 with 675 views | Blue_Castello |
Thanks Clive for another superb article, that sounded exactly the start to the season that has been missing and a lot of French Bon Homie in the process.
This posting by Beans comes across as a cheerleader for Nourry, maybe he's on work experience and trying to impress the boss, it really does scream a Qblockpete scenario.
We accept that Cifuentes was going to leave because of his poor relationship with Nourry, some people said it was toxic, if that's the case he had no option but to explore other avenues even though he wanted to stay. As somebody else has said because Nourry was Hoos man he was safe knowing he had his backing and that the board who operate from a massive distance would only back the Manager till the end of the season, they deemed it the least amount of upheaval.
Whether you like it or not Nourry is hugely inexperienced for the very Senior role that he has been given, Man management is a skill that you learn over years, this shouts of somebody imposing himself with his ideas and strategy and just maybe not working in the smartest way when it comes to dealing with his staff.
What's totally crazy is we've all just started to move on a bit, not happy but realised that we have a new manager who needs our support, it's our club not Nourry's he will be gone at some stage and the fans will still be there.
Clive is an independent journalist who does a fantastic job, he spoke with the genuine fans in Perpignan and got their feedback, that's all he did but you saw that as a crime, the people he spoke about in his post are long time supporters with very valued opinions and as you realise includes the WLS journalist in case you were not sure. | | | |
| Pre-season and Perpignan – Awaydays on 09:42 - Jul 29 with 576 views | JamieNaz |
Lovely article.
Awaydays is my favourite feature.
I wish I had been able to go.
Beans can get in the sea. Fanbase getting fractured again through weird little groups popping up peddling an odd party line and accusations of being disloyal and not sticking together.
Odd people.
Nourry is 27. I also thought I knew a lot when I was 27. | | | |
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