| Does reform = anarchy? 10:35 - Aug 27 with 607 views | saint901 |
I'm willing to take the risk of being accused of posting "divisive" messages unless or until a forum moderator says otherwise.
We all know that Reform did well in the last local elections and some polls have them likely to be the majority party should a general election be held now.
In numbers they won 667 local seats. Of those, it seems that between 11 and 16 individuals have either since resigned their seat; left Reform; been expelled from Reform; been expelled from the Council for non attendance.
In some instances, the Councillor has been forced to resign because of their clear and unequivocal racist views. (See the case of Robert Bloom - until recently a councillor in Nottinghamshire).
Taking a mid number of 13 losses/defections, that's around 2% of those elected who are no longer serving. (The by elections will cost around £350k).
If this was repeated in a general election Reform would need 326 seats plus this attrition rate, which if consistent over a five year Parliament, means they would need close on 400 seats.
Do we really want - in power - a party whose members are incapable of holding a local Councillor post, preferring instead to abuse those who perhaps voted for them?
Do we not think the anarchy this would create would be worse for us than the present situation (even if you hold strong anti left/right views)? |  | | |  |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:09 - Aug 27 with 555 views | yateleysaint |
Reform can run for power only after they’ve undergone a denazification process run by the Red Army Faction. This may result in their untimely deaths but that’s a risk I’m more than willing to take. |  |
| You cannot reason a person out of something they were not reasoned into. |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:36 - Aug 27 with 539 views | Flamingbankers |
Stick to football. Ban all politics from the forum. There are plenty of other sites for politics. | |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:38 - Aug 27 with 534 views | Southamptonfan |
No, it probably wouldn't be the best thing for this country if Reform were to gain power, although ofcourse that is a matter of opinion. However, that's what will happen, if people feel like the main parties arn't listening.on various issues. Like Brexit, people protest.
There is still.time, I voted Labour last time, but they didn't tell me that pensioners would lose their winter fuel.payment, they didn't say that they would attempt to take money away from the genuinely disabled, people are still stealing from my local shop and the police don't turn up. Inflation is going up and people are being told taxes have to rise because we are skint. The boats are still coming, more than before the election and they haven't tackled the gangs. Energy prices continue to rise. We still have homeless on the streets, yet there are billions for strangers, who never paid anything in to this country being put up in hotels.
Yes, there will be racists and extremes who vote reform. But, there will also be people who are fed up of the.main parties not doing what they said they would do, and will.vote for Reform for "a change" and a protest. Personally, I like most value what immigrants have done for the NHS etc, but complete strangers arriving unchecked is not acceptable to most people. And again just like the Tories, Labour arn't sorting it. As I said, having a Reform government probably wouldn't be the best thing, but I understand people doing it. The main parties need to listen, and sort out the things that people want sorted out! If not, the protest vote will happen. A change of leadership for the Tories, .may be the only way that they get back into contention.
As for posting on here, it's fine in my opinion. People don't have to take part if they don't want to. They don't have to read the thread. And surely adults can agree or disagree with valid views without resorting to abuse? [Post edited 27 Aug 11:58]
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:46 - Aug 27 with 502 views | saint901 |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:36 - Aug 27 by Flamingbankers |
Stick to football. Ban all politics from the forum. There are plenty of other sites for politics. |
Why?
The fanbase seems to have a broad reach of views and opinions and whilst I may disagree with some of them - especially those taking liberties with the facts - it's a useful place to check whether I'm completely wrong (more often than I'd care to admit) or perhaps have a small percentage of truth in what I think.
If you don't like it, there are options available to block posters. | | | |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:50 - Aug 27 with 490 views | Flamingbankers |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:46 - Aug 27 by saint901 |
Why?
The fanbase seems to have a broad reach of views and opinions and whilst I may disagree with some of them - especially those taking liberties with the facts - it's a useful place to check whether I'm completely wrong (more often than I'd care to admit) or perhaps have a small percentage of truth in what I think.
If you don't like it, there are options available to block posters. |
"Why?"
Because it's a football forum and not a political one. It that really so hard to understand?
Thanks for the advice! | |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 12:04 - Aug 27 with 468 views | SaintNick |
Personally I have no problem with putting stuff up occasionally that isn't football connected, as long as it keeps things civil and factual, Ok with politics that is quite hard.
As long as a thread is respectful , doesn't get repeated day in day out and not abusive and doesn't become repetitive then it isn't a problem, personally I am interested in hearing other peoples views,
In many respects its no different to tell people your politics than telling them your favourite 3 biscuits or bands you have seen lately.
I would suggest that on the one thread every now and then that politics crops up those that don't want to get involved can just ignore it as some do now with football threads they are not interested in. |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 12:15 - Aug 27 with 454 views | saint901 |
I would count myself as one of those who reads the football related threads but perhaps does not contribute much.
In my view, many of the threads on the football side are repeats of the issues we have been dealing with for years.
The game is not what it was; the manager has no idea; the owners are incompetent; the players aren't trying; the tactics are wrong; the players have no loyalty; etc.
All true perhaps but all attracted thousands of words over the years and nothing much changes except the names of owners/managers/players. | | | |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 12:38 - Aug 27 with 437 views | Bazza |
Neatly put question | | | |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 13:04 - Aug 27 with 402 views | saint901 |
A poll is not a vote. Studies have shown that people will tell a pollster something because it doesn't really matter but will do something else when they're in the polling station.
Just think how many times we've seen polls predictions that are wrong. In the last election a close fought win for Labour was predicted by polls. In the end it was a landslide and all the pollsters came out blaming everything from people being untruthful to plagues of frogs for getting it wrong.
How are the "people instructing" the Labour and Tory party? Voters look at the manifesto at election time, decide how much of that they believe can be delivered and vote accordingly. Once elected, there are no more "instructions". Short of revolution there is no mechanism which can "instruct" a Gov't to do A rather than B.
The issue of immigration - legal and informal - is one that is high profile and exaggerated by those who see gain in disenchanted voters - but compared to other matters is minor.
Funding of public services; security; transport infrastructure; defence; the economy; all rank higher than a few tens of thousands of people demonised by closest fascists and seized upon by their cult followers.
Would you support a scheme which handed money to would be informal arrivals in the UK directly - or to the Gov't of the country they are in now - if it meant that your local hospital closed?
The alternative being an immigration tax to pay said people.
The root causes of immigrants coming here are wars and persecution in their country of origin, refusal of most European countries to allow them to stay there, a comparatively benign system here which takes far too much time to reach an end.
We already see Labour moving to limit appeals and send some back (one in/one out although even that has issues) and as a result total immigration has dropped by about a third.
Is that better than the Tory "send them to Africa" plan? Perhaps not but it's certainly less expensive.
This is not just a UK problem and therefore the UK alone cannot "stop the boats" or "smash the gangs" or whatever new three word slogan comes next. It needs international cooperation and as far as I can see, the Tories decided not to do that (and failed) and Labour is trying to do that (but is very slow). | | | |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 14:48 - Aug 27 with 340 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:46 - Aug 27 by saint901 |
Why?
The fanbase seems to have a broad reach of views and opinions and whilst I may disagree with some of them - especially those taking liberties with the facts - it's a useful place to check whether I'm completely wrong (more often than I'd care to admit) or perhaps have a small percentage of truth in what I think.
If you don't like it, there are options available to block posters. |
I'm not sure if you were around on here a few years ago when there were quite a few posts /threads re the politics of the time in particular very anti Boris and then Rishi and allsorts, even Brexit etc relating to the so called "state of the country" at the time as well as all the Covid cr@p and that did at times get very heavy and abusive and personal if views were different
I'm not sure if anything happened behind the scenes (Nick as admin got involved?), but fortunately things calmed down and it was hugs all round (nearly)
What we don't want is for it to go down that route again
As far as posts on this board goes re politics, the occasional is probably ok but within reason and not likely to offend.
For the record 901, you are clearly in to this but it is just opinions after all, and from my point of view I rarely read the whole of your essays on the subject as I tend to get lost. Also for the record, I'm thoroughly pi55ed off with the current incumbant running the country and am dreading what Reeves is going to do in October. But then again, I do read the Daily Fail!  
And as for Farage, has he come up with how he's going to run the country from a financial point of view or pay for all of his promises? Starmer made loads of promises that we all wanted to hear, but didn't actually say how he was going to achieve them. That's my same worry about Farage. But what are the alternatives? |  |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 15:01 - Aug 27 with 313 views | solent_toffee |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 14:48 - Aug 27 by kingslandstand1 |
I'm not sure if you were around on here a few years ago when there were quite a few posts /threads re the politics of the time in particular very anti Boris and then Rishi and allsorts, even Brexit etc relating to the so called "state of the country" at the time as well as all the Covid cr@p and that did at times get very heavy and abusive and personal if views were different
I'm not sure if anything happened behind the scenes (Nick as admin got involved?), but fortunately things calmed down and it was hugs all round (nearly)
What we don't want is for it to go down that route again
As far as posts on this board goes re politics, the occasional is probably ok but within reason and not likely to offend.
For the record 901, you are clearly in to this but it is just opinions after all, and from my point of view I rarely read the whole of your essays on the subject as I tend to get lost. Also for the record, I'm thoroughly pi55ed off with the current incumbant running the country and am dreading what Reeves is going to do in October. But then again, I do read the Daily Fail!
And as for Farage, has he come up with how he's going to run the country from a financial point of view or pay for all of his promises? Starmer made loads of promises that we all wanted to hear, but didn't actually say how he was going to achieve them. That's my same worry about Farage. But what are the alternatives? |
I try not to give Farage much head space to be honest, because I think he’s a self serving opportunist ic grifter (aren’t they all).
However, I just can’t get my head around the thought of him even considering paying the Taliban to take back asylum seekers to Afghanistan. From a humanitarian point of you, I can’t see the Taliban welcoming them back with open arms. But the Taliban aren’t recognised as being a government by the west, Afghanistan no longer has an embassy here. British army personnel have been killed in conflict with them in living memory and now he is proposing that the British tax payer pays for the mess that they have created in the first place.
It’s very messed up. | | | |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 15:13 - Aug 27 with 294 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 12:15 - Aug 27 by saint901 |
I would count myself as one of those who reads the football related threads but perhaps does not contribute much.
In my view, many of the threads on the football side are repeats of the issues we have been dealing with for years.
The game is not what it was; the manager has no idea; the owners are incompetent; the players aren't trying; the tactics are wrong; the players have no loyalty; etc.
All true perhaps but all attracted thousands of words over the years and nothing much changes except the names of owners/managers/players. |
Now there's a few valid points!! | |
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| Does reform = anarchy? on 16:28 - Aug 27 with 238 views | saint901 |
Understood on the issue of too much politics.
No I do not wish to see a repeat of the side taking we saw on Brexit.
So, a reasoned and respectful note which I will interpret as a polite "wind your neck in" and I will. | | | |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 18:10 - Aug 27 with 185 views | Sadoldgit |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:50 - Aug 27 by Flamingbankers |
"Why?"
Because it's a football forum and not a political one. It that really so hard to understand?
Thanks for the advice! |
There is a football section and a non-football section. So long as political posts are made in the non- football section, what is the problem? |  | | |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 19:58 - Aug 27 with 144 views | 1885_SFC |
| Does reform = anarchy? on 11:38 - Aug 27 by Southamptonfan |
No, it probably wouldn't be the best thing for this country if Reform were to gain power, although ofcourse that is a matter of opinion. However, that's what will happen, if people feel like the main parties arn't listening.on various issues. Like Brexit, people protest.
There is still.time, I voted Labour last time, but they didn't tell me that pensioners would lose their winter fuel.payment, they didn't say that they would attempt to take money away from the genuinely disabled, people are still stealing from my local shop and the police don't turn up. Inflation is going up and people are being told taxes have to rise because we are skint. The boats are still coming, more than before the election and they haven't tackled the gangs. Energy prices continue to rise. We still have homeless on the streets, yet there are billions for strangers, who never paid anything in to this country being put up in hotels.
Yes, there will be racists and extremes who vote reform. But, there will also be people who are fed up of the.main parties not doing what they said they would do, and will.vote for Reform for "a change" and a protest. Personally, I like most value what immigrants have done for the NHS etc, but complete strangers arriving unchecked is not acceptable to most people. And again just like the Tories, Labour arn't sorting it. As I said, having a Reform government probably wouldn't be the best thing, but I understand people doing it. The main parties need to listen, and sort out the things that people want sorted out! If not, the protest vote will happen. A change of leadership for the Tories, .may be the only way that they get back into contention.
As for posting on here, it's fine in my opinion. People don't have to take part if they don't want to. They don't have to read the thread. And surely adults can agree or disagree with valid views without resorting to abuse? [Post edited 27 Aug 11:58]
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I would imagine that between now and the next general election in 2029, Free Gear Kier will be doing his utmost best to ensure that future elections are banned from now on for us ordinary folk. It's the only way the weak, clueless liar will stop the rise of Reform & Nigel Farage. And Starmer knows it. |  |
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