| It's Wrong 12:50 - Oct 17 with 344 views | TheOldOakTree |
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cx204j7x4pqt
Whilst I wouldn’t piss on one of their fans if they were on fire, I think this is a shockingly bad decision from a country that’s already a laughing stock across Europe.
Look at England fans behaviour over the last 40 years. How many countries have banned us from attending matches? If our pathetic authorities are correct on this call then English fans should never be allowed abroad again. The cost to other countries to police our scum over the years has been astronomic, but they just get on with it, because you don’t let the wrong’uns dictate how the rest of us go about our business. The German, Spanish and French police must be pissing themselves with laughter at our cowardly bobbies. The shite they’ve had to put up with in the past from tens of thousands of bottle throwing Ing-ger-land ‘boys’, and we can’t cope with a one-off club game because of some political activists, and that's the important bit, it's not the MTA fans that are the problem, it's because we cannot control our own people who might turn up to protest. It is wrong on many levels.
If UEFA deem this shower of shite are allowed to enter the competition, then their fans should be allowed to attend. If the UK has become so pathetic that it cannot keep its inhabitants under control, then Aston Villa should be thrown out of the tournament or the match should be switched to Tel Aviv. Why should Aston Villa be handed an advantage just because the English police are not up to the job. Whatever the level of threat, you just have to deal with it, otherwise once you give in to the threat of protest, you have lost and you will encourage more and more hostile action in the future.
How hard is it to bus a couple of thousand people from the airport, straight to the ground and straight back again? If we cannot manage this then what are the plod going to do if there is ever any serious disturbance in the UK?
Once you let them start this kind of caper, it’s the thin edge of the wedge, what’s next? No away fans at any local derby?
[Post edited 17 Oct 13:30]
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| It's Wrong on 22:46 - Oct 17 with 236 views | noah4x4 |
This situation isn’t Villa’s fault. The body that made the original decision is wholly independent of the football club. Villa fans are probably THE most diverse and inclusive in the entire Premiere League.
Birmingham has had its past race relations problems, but has transformed itself since the 1960’s (p.s I am a Brummie and closet Villa fan, albeit a Col U supporter since I moved here 23 years ago).
The original decision reflects that a pro-Palestinian protest is inevitable if any Israeli fans are present and hence the risk of violent clashes. Banning BOTH groups is possibly wise, or maybe play it behind closed doors. This observation isn’t antisemitic nor anti-muslim. It simply reflects an expectation that neither group will behave themselves and police officers and innocent bystanders may get hurt. Frankly, Politics should be kept out of football, Eurovision Song Contest and World Conker Championships. |  | | |
| It's Wrong on 00:36 - Oct 18 with 217 views | wessex_exile |
| It's Wrong on 22:46 - Oct 17 by noah4x4 |
This situation isn’t Villa’s fault. The body that made the original decision is wholly independent of the football club. Villa fans are probably THE most diverse and inclusive in the entire Premiere League.
Birmingham has had its past race relations problems, but has transformed itself since the 1960’s (p.s I am a Brummie and closet Villa fan, albeit a Col U supporter since I moved here 23 years ago).
The original decision reflects that a pro-Palestinian protest is inevitable if any Israeli fans are present and hence the risk of violent clashes. Banning BOTH groups is possibly wise, or maybe play it behind closed doors. This observation isn’t antisemitic nor anti-muslim. It simply reflects an expectation that neither group will behave themselves and police officers and innocent bystanders may get hurt. Frankly, Politics should be kept out of football, Eurovision Song Contest and World Conker Championships. |
Yep, this isn’t a football violence thing, it’s recognition that the genocide that has been going on in Gaza has massively inflamed passions. It would have been a powder keg ready to blow if Israeli supporters were attending. It’s not anti-semitism, it’s simply managing what would be otherwise a flashpoint. |  |
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| It's Wrong on 09:43 - Oct 18 with 189 views | TheOldOakTree |
| It's Wrong on 00:36 - Oct 18 by wessex_exile |
Yep, this isn’t a football violence thing, it’s recognition that the genocide that has been going on in Gaza has massively inflamed passions. It would have been a powder keg ready to blow if Israeli supporters were attending. It’s not anti-semitism, it’s simply managing what would be otherwise a flashpoint. |
You don’t see that giving in to mob rule is a dangerous precedence?
You don’t have a problem with our country banning people because of where they come from? Is racism now OK if you don’t like the victim?
However morally justified they may be, it is not acceptable for a bunch of unelected political activists to decide how we run our country. It is the job of the police to maintain law and other, as people go about their legitimate business, not to decide what group of people can come and which cannot.
Injuries or damage to property is far less damaging than this. It would be different if the MTA fans were the threat, but they have a legitimate right to come and support their team. I’m not happy about them coming, but I’m far less happy that England has become so pathetic that it has lost control of its streets.
If it is acceptable for a mob to stop people going about their legitimate business then are we saying that Just Stop Oil can bring the country to a standstill? Do they just need to threaten violence before it’s OK for us to give in to them as well? If not, why not?
I take it that if you are OK with a ban on MTA fans, then you will be happy to stop using your car if Just Stop Oil turn violent? Or is it a different set of rules if it affects you? Are you happy for other countries to start banning English visitors if a few of their people are anti-english, parts of our history are no better than any recent events, so why not?
If we are now in the business of managing potential flashpoints, then surely that’s England banned from absolutely everywhere.
Not only are we showing the world that we have lost control of our own country, we are setting some very dangerous precedents. [Post edited 18 Oct 10:09]
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| It's Wrong on 10:15 - Oct 18 with 167 views | wessex_exile |
| It's Wrong on 09:43 - Oct 18 by TheOldOakTree |
You don’t see that giving in to mob rule is a dangerous precedence?
You don’t have a problem with our country banning people because of where they come from? Is racism now OK if you don’t like the victim?
However morally justified they may be, it is not acceptable for a bunch of unelected political activists to decide how we run our country. It is the job of the police to maintain law and other, as people go about their legitimate business, not to decide what group of people can come and which cannot.
Injuries or damage to property is far less damaging than this. It would be different if the MTA fans were the threat, but they have a legitimate right to come and support their team. I’m not happy about them coming, but I’m far less happy that England has become so pathetic that it has lost control of its streets.
If it is acceptable for a mob to stop people going about their legitimate business then are we saying that Just Stop Oil can bring the country to a standstill? Do they just need to threaten violence before it’s OK for us to give in to them as well? If not, why not?
I take it that if you are OK with a ban on MTA fans, then you will be happy to stop using your car if Just Stop Oil turn violent? Or is it a different set of rules if it affects you? Are you happy for other countries to start banning English visitors if a few of their people are anti-english, parts of our history are no better than any recent events, so why not?
If we are now in the business of managing potential flashpoints, then surely that’s England banned from absolutely everywhere.
Not only are we showing the world that we have lost control of our own country, we are setting some very dangerous precedents. [Post edited 18 Oct 10:09]
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No of course I’m not okay with it, it’s a deeply troubling decision that could become a dangerous precedent. But, I can also see why multiple agencies including West Midland Police had serious concerns about what could happen, no doubt with one eye on the riots and violence that occurred when MTA visited Ajax last season. You know as well as I that there will be groups far beyond supporters of the two clubs who would love nothing more than the opportunity to rock up for confrontation. I read that Starmer is trying to resolve the situation, so that’s okay then.
Incidentally, I’m 100% in support of banning Russia and Russian clubs from international competitions because of their atrocities in Ukraine - I’m certain you are too. | |
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| It's Wrong on 11:06 - Oct 18 with 152 views | TheOldOakTree |
| It's Wrong on 10:15 - Oct 18 by wessex_exile |
No of course I’m not okay with it, it’s a deeply troubling decision that could become a dangerous precedent. But, I can also see why multiple agencies including West Midland Police had serious concerns about what could happen, no doubt with one eye on the riots and violence that occurred when MTA visited Ajax last season. You know as well as I that there will be groups far beyond supporters of the two clubs who would love nothing more than the opportunity to rock up for confrontation. I read that Starmer is trying to resolve the situation, so that’s okay then.
Incidentally, I’m 100% in support of banning Russia and Russian clubs from international competitions because of their atrocities in Ukraine - I’m certain you are too. |
I’m 100% in favour of any fairly elected government or institution banning whoever they see fit.
Rightly or wrongly Israel and their clubs have not been banned.
The world doesn’t see the detail, it just sees that Donald and his sidekick are right, we’ve lost control of our country, it’s not safe on the streets of England because immigrants have taken over, they are calling the shots. The country that stood up the Nazis to defend freedom is now dictated to by a mob. We know that’s not what this is about and that most protesters will be white and born here, but the rest of the world don’t.
Sometimes you just have to do things that are unpleasant or difficult, because it’s the right thing to do.
Ajax fans would fight with their own shadow and where we have tackled our football issues, the Dutch authorities have failed. Aston Villa and their fans are just caught up in this shitty mess.
One more thing, our fans will soon be heading off to the world cup which is being held in the country that has the second largest Jewish population in the world (and the biggest collection of privately owned guns). [Post edited 18 Oct 11:13]
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| It's Wrong on 11:08 - Oct 18 with 151 views | MarkyMark47 |
I'm not going to say anything about the rights or wrongs of the decision to ban the Maccabi fans from attending, but I think it will be reversed and the game will go ahead with both sets of fans present. |  | | |
| It's Wrong on 11:51 - Oct 18 with 129 views | TheOldOakTree |
| It's Wrong on 11:08 - Oct 18 by MarkyMark47 |
I'm not going to say anything about the rights or wrongs of the decision to ban the Maccabi fans from attending, but I think it will be reversed and the game will go ahead with both sets of fans present. |
I hope so, because it is a decision of national importance that should not be in the hands of the Brummie plod, nor should the cost be borne by the locals.
It’s a no win situation, and people will probably get hurt, but Starmer needs to show that the UK has a strong government, that we are still in control of our country and we are not racist. As a nation, we have recognised the Palestinian State and there is a ceasefire, we don’t need to fan the flames anymore. | | | |
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