| Trust meeting with directors on 20:42 - Nov 16 with 2379 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 14:31 - Nov 16 by Dale27 |
Of course I haven’t.
But you knew that. |
Where do you think it's going, then? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 20:50 - Nov 16 with 2351 views | James1980 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 20:42 - Nov 16 by TVOS1907 |
Where do you think it's going, then? |
Sweets and comics, is it being spent on sweets and comics? |  |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 21:47 - Nov 16 with 2253 views | Dale27 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 20:42 - Nov 16 by TVOS1907 |
Where do you think it's going, then? |
Going off what has been said it’s clearly not the playing side of things, nor intends to be in January either.
Agree? | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 21:55 - Nov 16 with 2227 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 21:47 - Nov 16 by Dale27 |
Going off what has been said it’s clearly not the playing side of things, nor intends to be in January either.
Agree? |
So you don't know then? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Trust meeting with directors on 21:58 - Nov 16 with 2212 views | macro |
| Trust meeting with directors on 21:47 - Nov 16 by Dale27 |
Going off what has been said it’s clearly not the playing side of things, nor intends to be in January either.
Agree? |
So are you saying that directors are palming it off for themselves then? |  | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 06:27 - Nov 17 with 2107 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meeting with directors on 20:02 - Nov 15 by Thacks_Rabbits |
Thoroughly depressing reading. If 2 million or so has disappeared into a black hole then something is seriously wrong!
I doubt hill and beech pay off was close to £500k and I can’t see the day we will ever pay a player 5 - 10k a week (even on a short contract we would not pay 5k a week)
It does make me wonder where all this cash has gone and can only assume that hill had massively overspent on wages, along with buying the ground and hornets being propped up again.
Still, not to worry, when we flog camps in January (as we “could not stand in the way of the players ambition and the fee (non disclosed) was substantial for a player out of contract in the summer”) we can all smile knowing we are able to pay Calvin and Josh’s wages until the end of the season, when they get released.
Out of interest does anyone know who is out of contact in summer?
Other than camps I can’t think of anyone who we should retain! |
I don’t know the answer to your questions regarding what happens to incoming monies but if I was to guess I would say that there is money there but it’s not being released to strengthen the first team for a variety of reasons. Maybe they are very valid reasons, but there is no doubt that the product on the pitch is suffering, it’s terrible at the moment. BBM needs backing by the board because the cost implications of replacing him with a new managerial team will far outweigh not doing so. We have a squad full of kids,crocks and players past their sell by date.
The Supporters Trust do a lot of good work but personally I don’t see them as my representative, i am one of the 80% or more of supporters who have chosen not to join. Nothing personal against those who run it because I find them all to be decent people and i’m sure they have the best interest of the Club at heart. If i’ve had concerns about the Club i’ve gone to the source and as a result had two lengthy discussions with David Bottomley over the last 12 months. Discussions which at times became very heated but nonetheless both resulted in us getting our points of view over, even if there was disagreement on various things. He is open to one on one meetings, you don’t have to be a Trust member to go and speak to him and personally i prefer that way of doing things because you can ask the questions face to face and gauge the reply and body language.
It’s been mentioned before that he has put the hard yards in supporting the Club over the years so he does have the credentials and he undoubtedly does have a love and passion for the Club, when you speak to him that comes across. Personally though I think his vision for the Club is far too ambitious (off the pitch) and because of that the real priority is being neglected...the first team!
The CEOs mantra is owning our own Training Complex and I have a feeling it’s become a bit of a obsession, maybe to the point where money is being held back to try to facilitate the project? It’s a brilliant idea if we have the infrastructure and finance to support it but in my opinion we don’t and without ‘outside investment’ it’s a unachievable pipe dream. So when he speaks of ‘outside investment’ i reckon this is the direction he is going, the problem with that is those investing the money will want a return and guarantees, what will that entail?
The most successful period in the Clubs history has undoubtedly been the last decade, we achieved that without having a permanent training complex and look at the players that Steve Parkin, Keith Hill etc signed...Lambert, Murray, Holt, Le fondre, Dawson, Hogan etc. The overwhelming majority of players we have sold for big money haven’t come through our youth policy and been developed and sold on, they have been picked up on free transfers and polished up. Youth academies are great if you can afford them but are they really that cost effective if you have to start purchasing and running your own training complex? How many of these players actually come through to make you big money and the time involved can take years. Adshead and Matheson aren’t the product of an all singing and all dancing training ground
Maybe the fact that we don’t have to fund a training complex has helped rather than hindered us because let’s face it the clubs on a similar level to us are all lagging behind, we have out performed all the Clubs averaging gates of around 3000. Fleetwood are a exception because they have a wealthy owner. So the infatuation of owning our own training ground doesn’t stack up for me because it would drain resources from the priority and let’s face it we have recently been informed that there is no money for new signings so imagine if we also had a training ground, pitches to maintain and staff to pay.
At this level it’s all about the product on the pitch, turning players around and making a profit on them and hoping for a good cup run. If the first team is failing then everything else around the Club falls down and stops functioning....you also end up with no paying customers (fans). [Post edited 17 Nov 2019 7:33]
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| Trust meeting with directors on 07:04 - Nov 17 with 2095 views | pioneer |
| Trust meeting with directors on 06:27 - Nov 17 by TalkingSutty |
I don’t know the answer to your questions regarding what happens to incoming monies but if I was to guess I would say that there is money there but it’s not being released to strengthen the first team for a variety of reasons. Maybe they are very valid reasons, but there is no doubt that the product on the pitch is suffering, it’s terrible at the moment. BBM needs backing by the board because the cost implications of replacing him with a new managerial team will far outweigh not doing so. We have a squad full of kids,crocks and players past their sell by date.
The Supporters Trust do a lot of good work but personally I don’t see them as my representative, i am one of the 80% or more of supporters who have chosen not to join. Nothing personal against those who run it because I find them all to be decent people and i’m sure they have the best interest of the Club at heart. If i’ve had concerns about the Club i’ve gone to the source and as a result had two lengthy discussions with David Bottomley over the last 12 months. Discussions which at times became very heated but nonetheless both resulted in us getting our points of view over, even if there was disagreement on various things. He is open to one on one meetings, you don’t have to be a Trust member to go and speak to him and personally i prefer that way of doing things because you can ask the questions face to face and gauge the reply and body language.
It’s been mentioned before that he has put the hard yards in supporting the Club over the years so he does have the credentials and he undoubtedly does have a love and passion for the Club, when you speak to him that comes across. Personally though I think his vision for the Club is far too ambitious (off the pitch) and because of that the real priority is being neglected...the first team!
The CEOs mantra is owning our own Training Complex and I have a feeling it’s become a bit of a obsession, maybe to the point where money is being held back to try to facilitate the project? It’s a brilliant idea if we have the infrastructure and finance to support it but in my opinion we don’t and without ‘outside investment’ it’s a unachievable pipe dream. So when he speaks of ‘outside investment’ i reckon this is the direction he is going, the problem with that is those investing the money will want a return and guarantees, what will that entail?
The most successful period in the Clubs history has undoubtedly been the last decade, we achieved that without having a permanent training complex and look at the players that Steve Parkin, Keith Hill etc signed...Lambert, Murray, Holt, Le fondre, Dawson, Hogan etc. The overwhelming majority of players we have sold for big money haven’t come through our youth policy and been developed and sold on, they have been picked up on free transfers and polished up. Youth academies are great if you can afford them but are they really that cost effective if you have to start purchasing and running your own training complex? How many of these players actually come through to make you big money and the time involved can take years. Adshead and Matheson aren’t the product of an all singing and all dancing training ground
Maybe the fact that we don’t have to fund a training complex has helped rather than hindered us because let’s face it the clubs on a similar level to us are all lagging behind, we have out performed all the Clubs averaging gates of around 3000. Fleetwood are a exception because they have a wealthy owner. So the infatuation of owning our own training ground doesn’t stack up for me because it would drain resources from the priority and let’s face it we have recently been informed that there is no money for new signings so imagine if we also had a training ground, pitches to maintain and staff to pay.
At this level it’s all about the product on the pitch, turning players around and making a profit on them and hoping for a good cup run. If the first team is failing then everything else around the Club falls down and stops functioning....you also end up with no paying customers (fans). [Post edited 17 Nov 2019 7:33]
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I agree...the number 1 priority has to be the first team...that’s what people go to see/pay money for. While I am not close to the club so can only observe from a distance you do get the impression that other things might be getting priority over a successful and entertaining first team. | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 07:18 - Nov 17 with 2092 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meeting with directors on 07:04 - Nov 17 by pioneer |
I agree...the number 1 priority has to be the first team...that’s what people go to see/pay money for. While I am not close to the club so can only observe from a distance you do get the impression that other things might be getting priority over a successful and entertaining first team. |
Yes, that’s my feelings also, the fans aren’t daft they know what they are watching. I feel sorry for BBM, i really want him to succeed and I think he has the attributes to be a very good manager, let’s no lose him because we failed to back him.
How would we maintain our own training complex and keep the pitches up to standard, we struggle to look after the pitch at Spotland, look how much money that has cost us? Then we would have to employ extra staff, a cook, a cleaner, groundstaff and the equipment they would need to do the job, pay the gas, electric, water, rates etc. All of this would be extra on top of what we are paying now and it’s just been suggested from the Chairman that the Club is financially on its arse as it is! The idea is great but the practicalities when you sit down and think about it won’t work on 2-3000 crowds, it could possibly cripple the club. [Post edited 17 Nov 2019 8:36]
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| Trust meeting with directors on 08:34 - Nov 17 with 2022 views | tony_roch975 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 06:27 - Nov 17 by TalkingSutty |
I don’t know the answer to your questions regarding what happens to incoming monies but if I was to guess I would say that there is money there but it’s not being released to strengthen the first team for a variety of reasons. Maybe they are very valid reasons, but there is no doubt that the product on the pitch is suffering, it’s terrible at the moment. BBM needs backing by the board because the cost implications of replacing him with a new managerial team will far outweigh not doing so. We have a squad full of kids,crocks and players past their sell by date.
The Supporters Trust do a lot of good work but personally I don’t see them as my representative, i am one of the 80% or more of supporters who have chosen not to join. Nothing personal against those who run it because I find them all to be decent people and i’m sure they have the best interest of the Club at heart. If i’ve had concerns about the Club i’ve gone to the source and as a result had two lengthy discussions with David Bottomley over the last 12 months. Discussions which at times became very heated but nonetheless both resulted in us getting our points of view over, even if there was disagreement on various things. He is open to one on one meetings, you don’t have to be a Trust member to go and speak to him and personally i prefer that way of doing things because you can ask the questions face to face and gauge the reply and body language.
It’s been mentioned before that he has put the hard yards in supporting the Club over the years so he does have the credentials and he undoubtedly does have a love and passion for the Club, when you speak to him that comes across. Personally though I think his vision for the Club is far too ambitious (off the pitch) and because of that the real priority is being neglected...the first team!
The CEOs mantra is owning our own Training Complex and I have a feeling it’s become a bit of a obsession, maybe to the point where money is being held back to try to facilitate the project? It’s a brilliant idea if we have the infrastructure and finance to support it but in my opinion we don’t and without ‘outside investment’ it’s a unachievable pipe dream. So when he speaks of ‘outside investment’ i reckon this is the direction he is going, the problem with that is those investing the money will want a return and guarantees, what will that entail?
The most successful period in the Clubs history has undoubtedly been the last decade, we achieved that without having a permanent training complex and look at the players that Steve Parkin, Keith Hill etc signed...Lambert, Murray, Holt, Le fondre, Dawson, Hogan etc. The overwhelming majority of players we have sold for big money haven’t come through our youth policy and been developed and sold on, they have been picked up on free transfers and polished up. Youth academies are great if you can afford them but are they really that cost effective if you have to start purchasing and running your own training complex? How many of these players actually come through to make you big money and the time involved can take years. Adshead and Matheson aren’t the product of an all singing and all dancing training ground
Maybe the fact that we don’t have to fund a training complex has helped rather than hindered us because let’s face it the clubs on a similar level to us are all lagging behind, we have out performed all the Clubs averaging gates of around 3000. Fleetwood are a exception because they have a wealthy owner. So the infatuation of owning our own training ground doesn’t stack up for me because it would drain resources from the priority and let’s face it we have recently been informed that there is no money for new signings so imagine if we also had a training ground, pitches to maintain and staff to pay.
At this level it’s all about the product on the pitch, turning players around and making a profit on them and hoping for a good cup run. If the first team is failing then everything else around the Club falls down and stops functioning....you also end up with no paying customers (fans). [Post edited 17 Nov 2019 7:33]
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It's an interesting debate about whether to invest in infrastructure or the 'here and now'. I disagree about the Academy's value - that has outlasted the availability of unpolished free transfers, which has been diminishing for all 4 leagues over the last decade as a result of the big fish scooping up all and sundry talent. It's become fashionable to denigrate institutions and leaders and argue for individualism, but centuries of workers' struggles tells you that combining together is a far more effective way of being heard. One-to-one heated arguments may be personally satisfying but getting changes (however small or inconsistent), pitch covers or a new 5 a-side pitch has been down to the Trust and, dare I say, compromise. | |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 08:43 - Nov 17 with 2009 views | nordenblue |
| Trust meeting with directors on 08:34 - Nov 17 by tony_roch975 |
It's an interesting debate about whether to invest in infrastructure or the 'here and now'. I disagree about the Academy's value - that has outlasted the availability of unpolished free transfers, which has been diminishing for all 4 leagues over the last decade as a result of the big fish scooping up all and sundry talent. It's become fashionable to denigrate institutions and leaders and argue for individualism, but centuries of workers' struggles tells you that combining together is a far more effective way of being heard. One-to-one heated arguments may be personally satisfying but getting changes (however small or inconsistent), pitch covers or a new 5 a-side pitch has been down to the Trust and, dare I say, compromise. |
Some valid points,but without the here and now being semi attractive there will be nothing left to requirw a longer term investment plan for anyway, as said previous it's a very easy habit to get out of especially the dross that has been served up what is now quite some time.
As said before folk aren't stupid and they know the extra money that's been flowing in during the last 12+ month's, it may seem wild and a bit reckless to some but Jesus wept let's give the paying customer something remotely worth parting with their in most cases hard earned brass for, our form particularly at home which is where our biggest interest should be is nothing short of absolutely dog shite and has been for some time. | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 08:45 - Nov 17 with 2006 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meeting with directors on 08:34 - Nov 17 by tony_roch975 |
It's an interesting debate about whether to invest in infrastructure or the 'here and now'. I disagree about the Academy's value - that has outlasted the availability of unpolished free transfers, which has been diminishing for all 4 leagues over the last decade as a result of the big fish scooping up all and sundry talent. It's become fashionable to denigrate institutions and leaders and argue for individualism, but centuries of workers' struggles tells you that combining together is a far more effective way of being heard. One-to-one heated arguments may be personally satisfying but getting changes (however small or inconsistent), pitch covers or a new 5 a-side pitch has been down to the Trust and, dare I say, compromise. |
Depends if you are happy with other people speaking on your behalf, i prefer to do it in person if given the opportunity. The Trust do a good job and i’m not running them down but it’s not for me, i’m not the only one who feels that way obviously. | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 09:04 - Nov 17 with 1970 views | 442Dale |
One thing the last few days has illustrated is the value of ensuring transparent dialogue that appears in the public domain. Whoever asks the questions, whether it be the media or the Trust, it’s allowing people to see the thoughts, opinions and decisions of those who have the responsibility of running our football club.
In turn, it’s our responsibility to analyse, offer thoughts and opinions and decide how we can positively influence the situation. |  |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 09:43 - Nov 17 with 1926 views | VivaDonaldo |
I feel that any work and investment in infrastructure tends to come at a cost to the playing side in the short term and it even affects those further up the pyramid.
As many have stated, it's been a long term goal to own the stadium again. This has been achieved and the costs of doing so are an additional expense we wont have carried in previous years.
It's also been acknowledged that the training ground/ academy is a longer term target too. Whilst the club cant have a completely open book in this matter, as no doubt third parties would appreciate commercial privacy too, we need to display patience as a fanbase.
The academy/training improvements would bring benefits in terms of "selling" the club to future youth and first team players whilst also potentially adding more assets to the clubs balance sheet, the money isnt just potentially lost in the intangible value of a player.
An additional benefit, so far as my understanding goes, is that a dedicated training facility is key to achieving the next level of academy status and that level comes with further funding from the FA and the Premier League. This would stick with us regardless of whether the club is in league one or two and would provide some stability in projecting costs.
So in the end I think it needs us fans to trust, buy in and support during these leaner times. And by leaner times I mean competing at our highest level in the clubs history, nurturing england under 18 internationals and at times playing some fine football. Some fans not too far from here would snap your hands off for what we have. | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 10:14 - Nov 17 with 1882 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with directors on 09:43 - Nov 17 by VivaDonaldo |
I feel that any work and investment in infrastructure tends to come at a cost to the playing side in the short term and it even affects those further up the pyramid.
As many have stated, it's been a long term goal to own the stadium again. This has been achieved and the costs of doing so are an additional expense we wont have carried in previous years.
It's also been acknowledged that the training ground/ academy is a longer term target too. Whilst the club cant have a completely open book in this matter, as no doubt third parties would appreciate commercial privacy too, we need to display patience as a fanbase.
The academy/training improvements would bring benefits in terms of "selling" the club to future youth and first team players whilst also potentially adding more assets to the clubs balance sheet, the money isnt just potentially lost in the intangible value of a player.
An additional benefit, so far as my understanding goes, is that a dedicated training facility is key to achieving the next level of academy status and that level comes with further funding from the FA and the Premier League. This would stick with us regardless of whether the club is in league one or two and would provide some stability in projecting costs.
So in the end I think it needs us fans to trust, buy in and support during these leaner times. And by leaner times I mean competing at our highest level in the clubs history, nurturing england under 18 internationals and at times playing some fine football. Some fans not too far from here would snap your hands off for what we have. |
Having read through this excellent thread, i must admit I'm more inclined towards this point of view, as might already have been gathered. That's not to say i don't have reservations about the financial planning and the individuals involved - no personal axe to grind but people have to earn respect rather than assume it due to their position in the hierarchy
I still think it's the wrong time to be using up our resources on either a major expansion to the playing budget in January, although some shape-shifting is needed. Acquiring what we really need - a youngish goalpoacher would be either sheer luck or outside our financial possibilities compared to competition from other clubs
I'm hugely supportive of how difficult BBMs task is. He doesn't get everything right but then who does? (Not even me!)
But to reiterate - this thread is mainly very impressive of the concerns we have and if those responsible for making decisions at the club don't take note, more fool them. We won't be fooled by anyone, and anyone who thinks they can ride roughshod over the fanbase is a fool |  |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 10:38 - Nov 17 with 1843 views | Dale27 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 21:55 - Nov 16 by TVOS1907 |
So you don't know then? |
I know enough is not being given to the playing side.
Do you not agree? | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:05 - Nov 17 with 1802 views | nordenblue |
| Trust meeting with directors on 09:43 - Nov 17 by VivaDonaldo |
I feel that any work and investment in infrastructure tends to come at a cost to the playing side in the short term and it even affects those further up the pyramid.
As many have stated, it's been a long term goal to own the stadium again. This has been achieved and the costs of doing so are an additional expense we wont have carried in previous years.
It's also been acknowledged that the training ground/ academy is a longer term target too. Whilst the club cant have a completely open book in this matter, as no doubt third parties would appreciate commercial privacy too, we need to display patience as a fanbase.
The academy/training improvements would bring benefits in terms of "selling" the club to future youth and first team players whilst also potentially adding more assets to the clubs balance sheet, the money isnt just potentially lost in the intangible value of a player.
An additional benefit, so far as my understanding goes, is that a dedicated training facility is key to achieving the next level of academy status and that level comes with further funding from the FA and the Premier League. This would stick with us regardless of whether the club is in league one or two and would provide some stability in projecting costs.
So in the end I think it needs us fans to trust, buy in and support during these leaner times. And by leaner times I mean competing at our highest level in the clubs history, nurturing england under 18 internationals and at times playing some fine football. Some fans not too far from here would snap your hands off for what we have. |
You can only trust,buy into something which is transparent and clear for us to make our own judgement,if you just want blind backing I'm certainly not the type, I'm glad we have folk regularly questioning what is actually going on and motives etc,as often said if the board or certain members of staff have nothing at all to hide they'd gladly take questions on the subject,why wouldn't you?
Comparing what we have to a town with no football club at all is no measuring stick to where we ourselves need to be, rather than thinking things could be worse there's absolutely no harm in striving to be the best we possibly can be,currently I feel everyone's pulling in opposite directions and has been for some time, these issues could/should all be cleared up pretty easily... if certain folk wanted to that is... | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:21 - Nov 17 with 1767 views | SuddenLad |
| Trust meeting with directors on 10:14 - Nov 17 by D_Alien |
Having read through this excellent thread, i must admit I'm more inclined towards this point of view, as might already have been gathered. That's not to say i don't have reservations about the financial planning and the individuals involved - no personal axe to grind but people have to earn respect rather than assume it due to their position in the hierarchy
I still think it's the wrong time to be using up our resources on either a major expansion to the playing budget in January, although some shape-shifting is needed. Acquiring what we really need - a youngish goalpoacher would be either sheer luck or outside our financial possibilities compared to competition from other clubs
I'm hugely supportive of how difficult BBMs task is. He doesn't get everything right but then who does? (Not even me!)
But to reiterate - this thread is mainly very impressive of the concerns we have and if those responsible for making decisions at the club don't take note, more fool them. We won't be fooled by anyone, and anyone who thinks they can ride roughshod over the fanbase is a fool |
It's absolutely imperative that we have a voice, either by direct approach or via a Trust. Either is acceptable, if the points made are valid and heard.
Let's stop these veiled suggestions (on here and elsewhere) that there are monies being 'skimmed'. I doubt if anyone seriously thinks that is happening. Our postcode isn't BL9.
The issue seems to be the 'priorities' in terms of investment and the way that happens. For me, currently, BBM needs funds. If he doesn't, and says he's happy with his squad, I'll go with that, but he's got a hell of a job on, trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I'll agree there are many wonderful youngsters on the books, that the future is promising, but there are gaps that need filling now with experience and with some more mature players. Relegation would be catastrophic and would also change the prospects for any investors, so let's make absolutely sure that doesn't happen. For me THAT is the priority.
Any investment is of course very welcome, to enhance the infrastructure of the club, but not if it means we are prostituting the club on the altar of commercial ventures. We know where that will end, and we must always keep our eyes firmly fixed on the welfare of the club, rather than the pie in the sky. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:23 - Nov 17 with 1762 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:05 - Nov 17 by nordenblue |
You can only trust,buy into something which is transparent and clear for us to make our own judgement,if you just want blind backing I'm certainly not the type, I'm glad we have folk regularly questioning what is actually going on and motives etc,as often said if the board or certain members of staff have nothing at all to hide they'd gladly take questions on the subject,why wouldn't you?
Comparing what we have to a town with no football club at all is no measuring stick to where we ourselves need to be, rather than thinking things could be worse there's absolutely no harm in striving to be the best we possibly can be,currently I feel everyone's pulling in opposite directions and has been for some time, these issues could/should all be cleared up pretty easily... if certain folk wanted to that is... |
And regarding your last point... if TS, in a personal meeting with DB, can ascertain what DB's "vision" is for the way Dale are going to be planning for the future, why isn't this being transmitted? I don't mean the nitty gritty of financing (subject to NDAs etc.) but the basic outline of that "vision" plus the rationale for it. I presume there is one, that can readily be advanced above other alternatives?
People might say he'd be reluctant to do so, having been shot down so many times on his "initiatives" - but that's in no small part due to lack of explanation and simply going ahead with change which affects the enjoyment of the fanbase in their Dale supporting capacity. It's no good putting out a weekly diary that told us absolutely nothing. Having a viable vision and communicating that at key points in the season really isn't too much trouble, surely? If people then disagree, so be it. But many might agree, it's something DB hasn't even tried to do, and this despite fan forums taking place too.
Sorry to be banging on again, but this is just so crucial to what we're all here for in the first place (on this particular forum) - wanting the best for Dale and feeling part of that process. Fail to bring the fans onside and you're very much on a loser from the outset. It's not too late to start doing things differently | |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:24 - Nov 17 with 1754 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with directors on 10:38 - Nov 17 by Dale27 |
I know enough is not being given to the playing side.
Do you not agree? |
The budget was reduced. It needed to be. We had far too big a squad and we didn’t need so many players.
Right now we can’t add anyone apart from those without a club. January will answer any questions. The actual statement in the Trust minutes from their meeting specified the money from the United game would not be used in January. The actual playing budget may still be sufficient for BBM to make the additions he wants.
If we hadn’t played United, the issues around the team would still need addressing and you’d presume the January window would have been planned for irrespective of other income. The issue is now whether the board/BBM will revisit the playing budget in January should circumstances change. eg. League position, player sales/leaving. | |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:27 - Nov 17 with 1737 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust meeting with directors on 10:38 - Nov 17 by Dale27 |
I know enough is not being given to the playing side.
Do you not agree? |
I have absolutely no idea as I have no access to any accounts or budgets, nor would I have any understanding of how much was 'not enough' as I'm not an accountant or a businessman.
Now back to my original question which you seem to be struggling to answer.
Where do you think or where are you implying money is going? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:28 - Nov 17 with 1733 views | VivaDonaldo |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:05 - Nov 17 by nordenblue |
You can only trust,buy into something which is transparent and clear for us to make our own judgement,if you just want blind backing I'm certainly not the type, I'm glad we have folk regularly questioning what is actually going on and motives etc,as often said if the board or certain members of staff have nothing at all to hide they'd gladly take questions on the subject,why wouldn't you?
Comparing what we have to a town with no football club at all is no measuring stick to where we ourselves need to be, rather than thinking things could be worse there's absolutely no harm in striving to be the best we possibly can be,currently I feel everyone's pulling in opposite directions and has been for some time, these issues could/should all be cleared up pretty easily... if certain folk wanted to that is... |
Can you not see the huge flaw in what you are saying there? Requiring someone to be completely transparent shows a complete lack of trust, the accounts are there each year, the club is answering fans questions and stating key goals and sharing what news they can. Trust requires a little bit of the unknown so that you can trust someone! Unfortunately there will be information that has no place in the public domain due to commercial sensitivity and anyone that's worked for a reasonable sized business can attest to that.
Appreciate trust has to be earned but we are talking about a board that made a huge decision last year to sack Hill and that surely should buy them some belief that they have the long term of this club in mind, particularly at this level.
I wasnt just referencing Bury in that statement. There are many others in our region that will look on in envy. | | | |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:30 - Nov 17 with 1728 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:23 - Nov 17 by D_Alien |
And regarding your last point... if TS, in a personal meeting with DB, can ascertain what DB's "vision" is for the way Dale are going to be planning for the future, why isn't this being transmitted? I don't mean the nitty gritty of financing (subject to NDAs etc.) but the basic outline of that "vision" plus the rationale for it. I presume there is one, that can readily be advanced above other alternatives?
People might say he'd be reluctant to do so, having been shot down so many times on his "initiatives" - but that's in no small part due to lack of explanation and simply going ahead with change which affects the enjoyment of the fanbase in their Dale supporting capacity. It's no good putting out a weekly diary that told us absolutely nothing. Having a viable vision and communicating that at key points in the season really isn't too much trouble, surely? If people then disagree, so be it. But many might agree, it's something DB hasn't even tried to do, and this despite fan forums taking place too.
Sorry to be banging on again, but this is just so crucial to what we're all here for in the first place (on this particular forum) - wanting the best for Dale and feeling part of that process. Fail to bring the fans onside and you're very much on a loser from the outset. It's not too late to start doing things differently |
Some excellent points.
We are seeing visions that need clarifying to stop lines becoming blurred. It is not about individual perspectives on a vision (whether it be the CEO aforementioned media interviews or the Chairman’s in his answer to a question via the Trust), it’s a club direction.
Let’s see it, a definitive statement on all areas of the club so we know what the aims are going forward. Messages remaining mixed only allow for further consternation. | |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:41 - Nov 17 with 1697 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:28 - Nov 17 by VivaDonaldo |
Can you not see the huge flaw in what you are saying there? Requiring someone to be completely transparent shows a complete lack of trust, the accounts are there each year, the club is answering fans questions and stating key goals and sharing what news they can. Trust requires a little bit of the unknown so that you can trust someone! Unfortunately there will be information that has no place in the public domain due to commercial sensitivity and anyone that's worked for a reasonable sized business can attest to that.
Appreciate trust has to be earned but we are talking about a board that made a huge decision last year to sack Hill and that surely should buy them some belief that they have the long term of this club in mind, particularly at this level.
I wasnt just referencing Bury in that statement. There are many others in our region that will look on in envy. |
There was information put into the public domain which was then brought to the attention of the Trust who then quoted the MOU (again):
<<“Given the club have admitted to having “Non-Disclosure agreements” signed, how far along is the club in obtaining investment, and will the club agree to keep the Trust abreast of any club ownership developments as agreed in the MOU?
The Board admitted that they were in negotiations but the nature of a non-disclosure agreement meant that they were limited to what they could say about it. They agreed that they would keep the Trust informed of any potential changes.”>>
Most would accept that it’s impossible to have total transparency, as seen in the answer to the question, totally understandable. But trust is earnt when agreed communication is followed (the MOU was signed in January). However, we can now focus on the fact the club have stated “They agreed that they would keep the Trust informed of any potential changes.” | |
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:45 - Nov 17 with 1687 views | nordenblue |
| Trust meeting with directors on 11:28 - Nov 17 by VivaDonaldo |
Can you not see the huge flaw in what you are saying there? Requiring someone to be completely transparent shows a complete lack of trust, the accounts are there each year, the club is answering fans questions and stating key goals and sharing what news they can. Trust requires a little bit of the unknown so that you can trust someone! Unfortunately there will be information that has no place in the public domain due to commercial sensitivity and anyone that's worked for a reasonable sized business can attest to that.
Appreciate trust has to be earned but we are talking about a board that made a huge decision last year to sack Hill and that surely should buy them some belief that they have the long term of this club in mind, particularly at this level.
I wasnt just referencing Bury in that statement. There are many others in our region that will look on in envy. |
Not really no...
Depend how you define these fans "not too far away" really,naturally I assumed the closest one,you know the one that's gone bang when nobody bothered to question anyone at their club's motives and just "trust" they had the club's best interest at heart, ringing any alarm bells yet?
I wouldn't want nor expect to know the ins and outs of the club's infrastructure,finances etc,but their general direction wouldn't be a bad place to let everyone be aware of and try and get them onside,it's hardly the diary of the Special Branch anyones requesting here. [Post edited 17 Nov 2019 11:46]
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| Trust meeting with directors on 11:53 - Nov 17 with 1675 views | 49thseason |
I am no accountant but there is some really interesting stuff in the 2018 accounts:
From 2017 to 18:
turnover fell from £5,999734 to £5,412,319(-587K)
Wages went up from £2355393 to £2915310 (+560K)
Transfer fees down from £2,165,772 to 710,820 (-£1,454952) Hogan?
Profit was £1,364,072 in 2017 and a loss of (£ 306,606) in 2018
TV money was just £16,500 in 2017 and £454,500 in 2018 Tottenham?
Gate money went up from £934500 in 2017 to £1,005350 (+£70,850)
The Balance sheet shows net assets of 2,571,402 in 2018 vs 2,878,008 in 2017 (-306,604 -Loss on the season).
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00111019 (RAFC)
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02483618 (Denehurst Park Ltd) |  | | |
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