| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? 23:38 - May 4 with 2060 views | numptydumpty |
I have looked on google and used AI too, just to see what exactly this means for an employee and employer under this imposed condition
From all I can see this can only be imposed on an employee for the term of their notice period.
So if Cifuentes had a three month notice period stipulated in his most recent contract, he can't seek out any alternative work during this period and also cannot work for another employer during this period also.
Mad in respect to any professional football manager to have notice period in their contract anyhow ie if another club wants them and pays them more money, they leave.
However from what I have read, if they do break the terms of their contract or a new prospective employer poaches them during this period, compensation would be legally required.
Ok
So this then seems like it may save the club some money but what it does do is stop Marti from seeking a new club and any new clubs from appointing him also. I guess his notice period as listed on the contract could even be three months.
Football is unlike any other profession and the notice period is in there for contract purposes and protecting the club. In reality who in football works out their notice.
What I would say though what managers could we attract if coming in, they are aware this could be included in their contract.
Who would want to join us, if they knew that if a big club came in for them , because they had done extremely well for us, that club could not then sign our manager for a lengthy period of time. Hardly going to allow any future half decent managers coming to our club..
Also, tbh also in this case it's a kick in the teeth for Cifuentes. He has done a half decent job for us and this kind of decision keeping him, unable to work or seek alternatives, is not great for anyone.
Does anyone on here have extensive knowledge or personal experience of GARDENING LEAVE ??
I am assuming Nourry has put this contract obligation in Marti s and Xavi s contracts when they were renewed.
So when any kind of contact from an interested club was started, they have immediately put the manager in this predicament
Probably West Brom would have appointed Marti, but can't now due to QPR invoking this.
So yeah, as said what future managers are we likely to put off joining ourselves if the likelihood is, they could be put in this situation in the future.
Would be stunned if when Marti re signed new deal, he did not have a contract employment expert, to read all the small print and this clause for me is a massive RED flag !!!
Whatever it is though, I think it totally reeks of idiotic bureaucracy and helps no one...
Football is unlike any other profession, players and managers constantly change.
The fact Cifuentes was fifth longest serving manager in Championship out of twenty four, despite only being here for eighteen months, says it all, to be fair about how Normal rules of employment are not the same as any other profession.
I haven't heard of any other football club invoking Gardening leave in recent years and in fact the last professional football club bringing this in, i knew of , doing this was, yes indeedy, good old QPR with Monsieur Ian Holloway !!
Crackpot bureaucracy by a crackpot club and i support this club and am saying this
Since we had the shambles of a reign under the Briatore / Ecclestone era and equally shambolic under the Fernandes reign, fricking heck, we have learnt nothing.
Only at Rangers !!!
[Post edited 5 May 0:38]
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| (No subject) on 00:09 - May 5 with 1822 views | numptydumpty |
In short sorry for long winded waffle, I know i have got problem with that....
Basically Cifuentes can't work for us or anyone else during this period..
He also can't approach or be approached by a potential new employer and if any of this happens, compensation is owed. He is prevented within this time of taking other employees with him too.
Thus any future manager would be wary to come to ourselves, not great selling point, if moving elsewhere if done well is effectively not possible..
Bonkers !!! [Post edited 5 May 0:19]
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| (No subject) on 00:19 - May 5 with 1790 views | johncharles |
| (No subject) on 00:09 - May 5 by numptydumpty |
In short sorry for long winded waffle, I know i have got problem with that....
Basically Cifuentes can't work for us or anyone else during this period..
He also can't approach or be approached by a potential new employer and if any of this happens, compensation is owed. He is prevented within this time of taking other employees with him too.
Thus any future manager would be wary to come to ourselves, not great selling point, if moving elsewhere if done well is effectively not possible..
Bonkers !!! [Post edited 5 May 0:19]
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How can this be legal .?.??. Heads I win, tails you lose |  |
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| (No subject) on 00:22 - May 5 with 1784 views | numptydumpty |
| (No subject) on 00:19 - May 5 by johncharles |
How can this be legal .?.??. Heads I win, tails you lose |
It's a clause that can be put in employment contracts in the UK legally, it seems.
Almost like they have sacked you and they have locked you in their cellar with your hands tied together, so you can't do anything during this particular period of time.
It's ridiculous though.
Totally agree [Post edited 5 May 0:45]
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 00:53 - May 5 with 1743 views | Boston |
So he's not operating a lawnmower for the groundkeepers then! |  |
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 06:50 - May 5 with 1508 views | Rsole |
All they are doing is making him serve out the remainder of his contact whilst being paid to stay at home.
It’s quite normal for anyone that is leaving to go to a competitor - or that is fired.
I suspect he had a confidentiality clause or similar that prevented him from talking to another club without QPR’s permission and that the latest leak was considered a breach of his contract.
You can’t have him return to the ‘office’ so they sent him home until someone agrees to the release clause or the contract ends.
That could rumble on for some time…. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 09:04 - May 5 with 1305 views | soops |
I can only surmise that the club were/are expecting him to be imminently offered a role elsewhere. In which case the new club would have to pay us compensation. If that’s not the case, we seem to have opened ourselves up to having to pay him off as we won’t be able to appoint someone else into the role whilst he’s still under contract.
Very QPR. |  | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 09:12 - May 5 with 1282 views | numptydumpty |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 00:53 - May 5 by Boston |
So he's not operating a lawnmower for the groundkeepers then! |
With today's technology, he could possibly do that remotely whilst sunning himself on a Caribbean beach though !!!! | |
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 10:24 - May 5 with 1168 views | baz_qpr |
Our resident QC explained this well in the long thread. Basically the Gardening leave will be a clause in the contract. By invoking it means that any Championship club will have to pay compensation. (if they sack him they have to pay him off anyway). However if he goes to another league the compensation will be negligible as there is little damage to the club, so if he got a role in France for example we would get next to nothing. |  | | |
| (No subject) on 11:36 - May 5 with 1072 views | Rsole |
| (No subject) on 08:54 - May 5 by numptydumpty |
This is football not the normal business world.
He is not allowed at all, to seek alternative employment for period of time whilst we have him on this gardening leave and others are prohibited from contacting him. So if West Brom still want him, they have to wait, maybe three months. They won't.
If you think this is OK and don't forget this is in the football world where people move on and break contracts all the time, well answer the question, why doesn't this rarely happen in football.
My answer is "Because it's mad"
We are shooting ourselves in the foot here....
And as said its going to put future managers from coming in here but if you think it's all absolutely fine - hey such is life!!!
Also question, can we appoint a successor whilst an employee is effectively in the role, albeit on gardening leave..
Seriously bonkers
There is no justification for this from my perspective. Can't understand how any fan thinks this is OK..
Why do you feel like this then Rsole - if that's the correct way to ask !!!  [Post edited 5 May 9:03]
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That’s just the way employment law works - it’s not about whether we like it or not.
It’s an unusual event in football and no one seems to win or come out of it with much credibility.
In the RW, usually a settlement is offered and negotiated, then the contract is terminated but the club wants a release fee, so they have a stalemate - for now.
Meantime, I’m sure Marti’s agents are talking to other clubs on his behalf. That’s why you have agents in football and why there are headhunters in the RW.
Should there be enough interest, I’m sure the situation will resolve itself because money will change hands to terminate the contract.
If there’s no interest, he could be gardening for a while and that’s the employment contract version of cock blocking.
Not sure it helps us having no head coach in place either but that piece of recruitment may also release Marti because you can’t employ two people in the same job - by law.
You can probably work around that with a different job title but it’s quite high profile and public so I doubt they will try.
Maybe charlieB can advise further on this matter ? | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 11:39 - May 5 with 1061 views | Rsole |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 09:04 - May 5 by soops |
I can only surmise that the club were/are expecting him to be imminently offered a role elsewhere. In which case the new club would have to pay us compensation. If that’s not the case, we seem to have opened ourselves up to having to pay him off as we won’t be able to appoint someone else into the role whilst he’s still under contract.
Very QPR. |
Agreed - it probably was one of the considerations at the time with WBA but that got old pretty quickly. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| (No subject) on 11:41 - May 5 with 1056 views | Rsole |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 09:12 - May 5 by numptydumpty |
With today's technology, he could possibly do that remotely whilst sunning himself on a Caribbean beach though !!!! |
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| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 11:49 - May 5 with 1035 views | 100percent |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 10:24 - May 5 by baz_qpr |
Our resident QC explained this well in the long thread. Basically the Gardening leave will be a clause in the contract. By invoking it means that any Championship club will have to pay compensation. (if they sack him they have to pay him off anyway). However if he goes to another league the compensation will be negligible as there is little damage to the club, so if he got a role in France for example we would get next to nothing. |
I'm no expert on this, and quite clearly I'm not CharlieB because I've been on thsi board since its inception, but maybe they have invoked the gardening leave as a holding pattern.
With no real rush to get the next coach/manager over the line, maybe they are hedging their bets until a) someone head hunts Marti b) a new person has been identified.
Either one of these two options will provoke a definitive decision.
If, as the nourry strategy if to be believed, the role is a palcemaking position to coach the club method going forward, then they will not be in a rush... |  | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 12:11 - May 5 with 992 views | DavieQPR |
Six months is the legal norm for the maximum time spent on gardening leave. The person on leave requires permission to go on holiday and must make himself available to the club. Hence the term 'gardening leave' because they can't go anywhere than, basically, home. |  | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:16 - May 5 with 845 views | KensalT |
The most high profile instance in British football was when Ally McCoist was put on gardening leave by Rangers in 2014
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30571507
The BBC report says that in McCoist's case the notice period was twelve months.
I don't know if that's typical in football manager contracts but it does suggest this standoff with Marti Cifuentes could drag on for some time. | | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:23 - May 5 with 818 views | 222gers |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 12:11 - May 5 by DavieQPR |
Six months is the legal norm for the maximum time spent on gardening leave. The person on leave requires permission to go on holiday and must make himself available to the club. Hence the term 'gardening leave' because they can't go anywhere than, basically, home. |
That's what I found - they said I must ready to come in to work immediately if told, otherwise the boot.
You can't really have a drink at home as you may have to drive in if ordered.
I got browned off after a while and jacked it in.
Luckily, I got a great job after a week or so and stayed there for 12 years.
Ps…the buggers didn't tell me I could go on holiday with prior permission. [Post edited 5 May 14:33]
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:29 - May 5 with 796 views | johncharles |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:16 - May 5 by KensalT |
The most high profile instance in British football was when Ally McCoist was put on gardening leave by Rangers in 2014
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30571507
The BBC report says that in McCoist's case the notice period was twelve months.
I don't know if that's typical in football manager contracts but it does suggest this standoff with Marti Cifuentes could drag on for some time. |
So I guess it will drag on until it has done the maximum financial and reputational damage to the club.
QPR are MAGIC. (as my 1976 badge says) | |
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| (No subject) on 16:27 - May 5 with 657 views | Rsole |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:29 - May 5 by johncharles |
So I guess it will drag on until it has done the maximum financial and reputational damage to the club.
QPR are MAGIC. (as my 1976 badge says) |
Until:
1) The release clause is triggered/paid
2) A settlement is agreed and the contract is mutually terminated
3) The contract expires with duration or notice period (eg McMoist)
4) We find a replacement and need him to vacate the role in order to hire.
Probably a bunch of twists on the above that lawyers will employ. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:14 - May 6 with 375 views | stainrods_elbow |
It does seem bonkers, agreed, and can't see who it helps in the scheme of things, but presumably no one was holding a gun to Marti's head when he signed his new contract (which he and Calm looked chortlingly delighted about on camera) and he surely did so having done due diligence on the small print. If not, he was naive at best and took the club for mugs at worst.
If he'd been in Warburton's situation, hanging on to see what was going to happen, then, of course, he'd be, morally at least, on the face of it entitled to chat up other clubs. As it is, his words about being an honest manager and loving the fans' appreciation of him etc. etc. reek to me of weaseldom only a few steps up the football food chain from Boil. |  |
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| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:19 - May 6 with 359 views | digswellhoop |
He's saked but so we can get compensation | | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:25 - May 6 with 327 views | digswellhoop |
He's saked but so we can get compensation | | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:30 - May 6 with 310 views | daveB |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:14 - May 6 by stainrods_elbow |
It does seem bonkers, agreed, and can't see who it helps in the scheme of things, but presumably no one was holding a gun to Marti's head when he signed his new contract (which he and Calm looked chortlingly delighted about on camera) and he surely did so having done due diligence on the small print. If not, he was naive at best and took the club for mugs at worst.
If he'd been in Warburton's situation, hanging on to see what was going to happen, then, of course, he'd be, morally at least, on the face of it entitled to chat up other clubs. As it is, his words about being an honest manager and loving the fans' appreciation of him etc. etc. reek to me of weaseldom only a few steps up the football food chain from Boil. |
what small print should he have looked for?
We still don't know officially the reason he is on gardening leave, the whole thing is a bit of a mess
I still think if we'd done nothing last week that Marti would be West Brom manager soon and we'd have some money to show for it rather than us now having some expensive lawyers to pay for |  | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:34 - May 6 with 292 views | DavieQPR |
Newcastle, Brighton,Chelsea and Birmingham have all used 'gardening leave' on staff recently. | | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:51 - May 6 with 241 views | lightwaterhoop |
I've always seen Gardening Leave as being suspended on full pay.It sometimes suits one or both parties to continue it for months on end although it wont in this case.Bringing this one to a conclusion will be the tricky part. | | | |
| "Gardening Leave" - what exactly does this mean ?? on 14:57 - May 6 with 227 views | TheChef |
I thought it was Garden, not Gardening? |  |
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