| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:15 - Sep 27 with 1874 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:05 - Sep 27 by KensalT |
How much would it all cost?
And where would you draw the line?
Mel Morris valued Derby's ground at £80m, based on the assumption that they were going to put a roof on top!
A property developer would probably have an even greater valuation for the land (particularly a plum West London site like QPR), and current owners would argue that compulsory purchase denies them the potential to move to a new site and develop the current site, and therefore that should be factored in to the compensation they receive.
How many clubs would be bound by this?
Even if this was just the current 92 clubs the cost would be enormous. And every time a new club got promoted to the league the owners would have their most valuable asset ripped away.
And then you have to think about what it says about our country to foreign investors if valuable land starts being taken into public ownership. Once you set the precedent for football then why not other industries? And once that happens foreign investors start looking elsewhere to invest.
It might sound simple but it's never gonna happen here.
In Italy they do mostly have council owned grounds.
A few years ago the Guardian wrote a piece arguing that this was what was holding Italian clubs back:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-gentleman-ultra/2015/oct/29/italian-clu
"The realisation that the existing stadiums are holding back Serie A clubs has started to take hold and it is not just the most famous clubs that have put plans in place to modernise. Along with the revamp of Udinese’s Stadio Friuli, Torino recently laid the first brick in their new Filadelfia stadium, which is just a stone’s throw from their current ground at the Stadio Olimpico in Turin.
There is a long way to go for clubs in Italy to get their grounds on par with the European elite, and Italian bureaucracy can prove a stumbling block on the way to progress, as proved in the case of Berlusconi’s Milan. If you compare the Rossoneri’s €24.9m matchday income to that of fellow Emirates sponsored club Arsenal’s €119.8m per season, you can clearly see the gulf between the two. It is worth noting, however, that season tickets cost between £1,000 and £2,000 at the Emirates stadium – a pricing structure that would not be viable in Italy.
Despite this, if Italian clubs can continue to improve and even own their stadiums, freeing themselves from the oppressive cost of council stadium ownership, the league will begin to attract further investment. A return to European dominance of the late 1980s and 1990s could be on the cards." |
CPO's allow the council/government to decide on their own method of valuation should negotiations fail.
The hard part, as you say, is after the council buys the ground - how to put in place a mechanism for development. But it's not beyond the wit of humankind. |  |
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:17 - Sep 27 with 1854 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:12 - Sep 27 by KensalT |
Oh, and one more thing.
Most councils are skint.
Hammersmith and Fulham has three football clubs within its boundaries. Two of them have been redeveloped at great cost.
How much would buying those grounds add to the Council Tax bill? Not to mention then being liable for ongoing maintenance.
Never, ever happening. |
Councils are skint because Governments don't fund them, not because Governments can't fund. That's a political choice.
Britain isn't skint. No Western Countries are skint: they simply allow their wealth to be siphoned off by rich people.
If it doesn't happen, it won't be because it can't. It'll be because a decision is made not to. [Post edited 27 Sep 13:18]
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:27 - Sep 27 with 1815 views | KensalT |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:15 - Sep 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
CPO's allow the council/government to decide on their own method of valuation should negotiations fail.
The hard part, as you say, is after the council buys the ground - how to put in place a mechanism for development. But it's not beyond the wit of humankind. |
CPO's are used to acquire land for development projects that are deemed to be in the public interest:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/compulsory-purchase-process-guidance/
What you are suggesting is to use them to just force a change of ownership of a privately owned asset.
I don't think there is any precedent for that and I really can't see English courts or politicians agreeing with it! [Post edited 27 Sep 13:31]
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:37 - Sep 27 with 1757 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:27 - Sep 27 by KensalT |
CPO's are used to acquire land for development projects that are deemed to be in the public interest:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/compulsory-purchase-process-guidance/
What you are suggesting is to use them to just force a change of ownership of a privately owned asset.
I don't think there is any precedent for that and I really can't see English courts or politicians agreeing with it! [Post edited 27 Sep 13:31]
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Oh, I don't think it will happen either. But it absolutely could, if the citizens forced their government to do it.
Governments and Nations have forced changes of ownership throughout history - CPO's, Nationalisation etc. Laws can be changed, votes can be won. If the desire is there.
And if sport and culture aren't in the public interest then they really should be. | |
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:43 - Sep 27 with 1721 views | KensalT |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:37 - Sep 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
Oh, I don't think it will happen either. But it absolutely could, if the citizens forced their government to do it.
Governments and Nations have forced changes of ownership throughout history - CPO's, Nationalisation etc. Laws can be changed, votes can be won. If the desire is there.
And if sport and culture aren't in the public interest then they really should be. |
In principle you're right.
Laws can be made and remade.
But if we're going to start looking at nationalising industries then rail and water are probably higher priorities.
I don't disagree with your sentiment. I just can't see it happening. | | | |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:48 - Sep 27 with 1701 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:43 - Sep 27 by KensalT |
In principle you're right.
Laws can be made and remade.
But if we're going to start looking at nationalising industries then rail and water are probably higher priorities.
I don't disagree with your sentiment. I just can't see it happening. |
Ya, I'm with you Kensal. | |
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 15:40 - Sep 27 with 1533 views | slmrstid |
Councils owning football grounds is a quickfire way to crumbling, unsafe, grounds within a decade. Clubs spend the bare minimum already, councils would do even less. |  | | |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 10:13 - Sep 28 with 1206 views | OldPedro |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 15:40 - Sep 27 by slmrstid |
Councils owning football grounds is a quickfire way to crumbling, unsafe, grounds within a decade. Clubs spend the bare minimum already, councils would do even less. |
You're right, councils wouldn't be able to pay for the upkeep of the grounds due to their lack of funding which as Brian says is a political choice. |  |
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 06:29 - Sep 30 with 727 views | cpgerber |
When is this thing finally going to go tits up? Every month its missed payment and more transfer embargoes, but there doesn’t seem to be an end. Unbelievable that the players just keep plugging away. |  | | |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 08:15 - Sep 30 with 629 views | Northernr |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 15:40 - Sep 27 by slmrstid |
Councils owning football grounds is a quickfire way to crumbling, unsafe, grounds within a decade. Clubs spend the bare minimum already, councils would do even less. |
Yeh councils can't even afford the upkeep of things like the Linford Christie Stadium which they already have. |  | | |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:18 - Sep 30 with 441 views | KensalT |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 08:15 - Sep 30 by Northernr |
Yeh councils can't even afford the upkeep of things like the Linford Christie Stadium which they already have. |
Quick PS on this.
The Milan clubs have bought the San Siro from Milan Council with a view to redevelopment
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| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:24 - Sep 30 with 417 views | TheChef |
| Owls’ problems coming home to roost – Preview on 13:18 - Sep 30 by KensalT |
Quick PS on this.
The Milan clubs have bought the San Siro from Milan Council with a view to redevelopment
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Is this what they call progress?  |  |
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