| Meeting with the club on 15:00 - Jul 2 with 3610 views | ChaffRAFC |
Not sure I'm in agreement of the club asking for money for a second hand van. That to me sounds like the club are using the Trust as a bit of a piggy bank and I don't think that's how it should be.
I'd much rather money went to giving Spotland a makeover so to speak, when you walk down Sandy Lane from Edenfield Road, the ground looks manky and is in desperate need of a paint job. I'd much sooner see money spent on something we will see the benefit of than going buying a van. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Meeting with the club on 15:30 - Jul 2 with 3548 views | 49thseason |
Sorry - bee in bonnet time... again....The pitches looked after by the groundsman at Redbrook are Lacrosse pitches used by Rochdale Lacrosse Club. |  | | |
| Meeting with the club on 15:41 - Jul 2 with 3520 views | TomRAFC |
| Meeting with the club on 15:00 - Jul 2 by ChaffRAFC |
Not sure I'm in agreement of the club asking for money for a second hand van. That to me sounds like the club are using the Trust as a bit of a piggy bank and I don't think that's how it should be.
I'd much rather money went to giving Spotland a makeover so to speak, when you walk down Sandy Lane from Edenfield Road, the ground looks manky and is in desperate need of a paint job. I'd much sooner see money spent on something we will see the benefit of than going buying a van. |
I agree with Chaff about the van.
The money could be put to much better use in the interest of trust members. |  |
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| Meeting with the club on 15:46 - Jul 2 with 3509 views | 442Dale |
Some good things to take forward there, eg. around marketing the 'free under 7s season tickets' in the run up to the friendlies. It'll be interesting to see what is done differently to attract the attention of a non- Dale fans to get a ticket for their kids. Making the friendlies free for u7s would assist with any campaign. Good to hear about the work done with schools, and hopefully those links will be revisited in the next couple of weeks to promote those friendlies and the ST offer.
The consultation evenings are a great idea because there is obviously interest amongst supporters to have input. It's important that people see that they can help out and make difference at their club, a lot of the questions answered and taken forward there came from a thread on this messageboard:
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/rochdale/forum/105837/trust-meeting-report
So when the first consultation evening is arranged, make sure you try and get down to it. If that's not possible, I'll sort a thread on here and try and raise points made by posters who can't attend.
re. Chaff's post: Maybe it could be clarified what the situation is with training down at the cricket/lacrosse club as well, because if it's a project that benefits both organisations and there's a possibility of a regular facility maybe even more could be done. Improving bits of Spotland is a decent idea too, make sure you get to the consultation events, Chaff! [Post edited 2 Jul 2014 15:50]
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| Meeting with the club on 15:49 - Jul 2 with 3497 views | 100notout |
Why would the Trust / Club fund something for the benefit of the Cricket / Lacrosse club? Do the club use these pitches for training? | |
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| Meeting with the club on 16:31 - Jul 2 with 3407 views | TalkingSutty |
| Meeting with the club on 15:49 - Jul 2 by 100notout |
Why would the Trust / Club fund something for the benefit of the Cricket / Lacrosse club? Do the club use these pitches for training? |
If the club are using the lacrosse/pitches for free then maybe we should help out a bit as a club. If they charge us rent then want us to maintain them then i would be against that. I dont think Trust funds should be donated for the van and agree with Chaff, sprucing the ground up directly benefits the club and supporters. What happens if the cricket club suddenly pull the rug any money donated would be worthless. |  | | |
| Meeting with the club on 16:35 - Jul 2 with 3402 views | MoonyDale |
| Meeting with the club on 15:49 - Jul 2 by 100notout |
Why would the Trust / Club fund something for the benefit of the Cricket / Lacrosse club? Do the club use these pitches for training? |
Because it's in the Trusts constitution that it is there to help the club and the wider community.... |  |
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| Meeting with the club on 16:37 - Jul 2 with 3391 views | 442Dale |
| Meeting with the club on 16:35 - Jul 2 by MoonyDale |
Because it's in the Trusts constitution that it is there to help the club and the wider community.... |
Yep, and with a bit more knowledge on the situation it could be a worthwhile project for the Trust to be involved with. | |
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| Meeting with the club on 16:38 - Jul 2 with 3390 views | 49thseason |
The Club often use the Lacrosse pitches for training (apparently Keith likes them I guess proximity to Spotland is a plus)). The sprinkler system under one pitch has been repaired by RAFC and the Dale groundsman takes care of them. The Lacrosse club gets better surfaces to play on but there is some downside for Lacrosse eg.when work is being done on the pitches and they are consequently unavailable sometimes for several weeks (re-seeding etc). There is no cash income from the arrangement for Lacrosse (or outgoings for RAFC presumeably). | | | |
| Meeting with the club on 17:09 - Jul 2 with 3321 views | D_Alien |
| Meeting with the club on 15:00 - Jul 2 by ChaffRAFC |
Not sure I'm in agreement of the club asking for money for a second hand van. That to me sounds like the club are using the Trust as a bit of a piggy bank and I don't think that's how it should be.
I'd much rather money went to giving Spotland a makeover so to speak, when you walk down Sandy Lane from Edenfield Road, the ground looks manky and is in desperate need of a paint job. I'd much sooner see money spent on something we will see the benefit of than going buying a van. |
Leaving aside the point about what the Trust monies should be spent on, the general point you make about the appearance of the ground is spot on.
The external appearance of many parts of the ground is very poor. Maybe those who work at the ground or visit regularly stop seeing it as it is - run down. It really wouldn't take much to contract a local business each summer to undertake general maintenance, plus that'd be benefitting the wider community through increasing employment opportunities.
[Post edited 2 Jul 2014 17:09]
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| Meeting with the club on 19:38 - Jul 2 with 3143 views | TVOS1907 |
| Meeting with the club on 15:00 - Jul 2 by ChaffRAFC |
Not sure I'm in agreement of the club asking for money for a second hand van. That to me sounds like the club are using the Trust as a bit of a piggy bank and I don't think that's how it should be.
I'd much rather money went to giving Spotland a makeover so to speak, when you walk down Sandy Lane from Edenfield Road, the ground looks manky and is in desperate need of a paint job. I'd much sooner see money spent on something we will see the benefit of than going buying a van. |
Agree with this 100%, Chaff.
Maybe the cricket/lacrosse club could ask Lou Vincent for a donation. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Meeting with the club on 05:52 - Jul 3 with 2908 views | TalkingSutty |
| Meeting with the club on 16:35 - Jul 2 by MoonyDale |
Because it's in the Trusts constitution that it is there to help the club and the wider community.... |
Although i have always been a member of the trust i wasn't aware that part of the Trust constitution was to help the wider community so thanks for that.
Perhaps i was naive but i thought the sole purpose of raising money was to directly benefit the club. Donating money raised by trust members to outside organisations and charities isn't something that i agree with.
I am sure the majority of people contribute to various charities like the hospice etc anyway and personally feel the local communities overall support of its football club is a disgrace ,90% wouldn't care if the club folded tomorrow.
Any monies raised should go directly to benefit the club and donations of sums of money no matter how big or small to outside organisations doesn't sit right with me. We also have regular charity collections inside the turnstiles so fans are regularly making donations.
This post might seem a bit churlish but its black and white to me all monies raised should go into the Football club
If its a one off fund raise for a member of the Dale family( Brandons bed) then i can see why we would do that but the local community thing is a joke in relation to the Football Club.
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| Meeting with the club on 08:28 - Jul 3 with 2818 views | isitme |
I totally agree.
I donate money to our club not other organisations or should we contribute to an event at the largest mosque in the area in an attempt to target an untapped stream of potential revenue? |  | | |
| Meeting with the club on 08:39 - Jul 3 with 2808 views | TalkingSutty |
| Meeting with the club on 08:28 - Jul 3 by isitme |
I totally agree.
I donate money to our club not other organisations or should we contribute to an event at the largest mosque in the area in an attempt to target an untapped stream of potential revenue? |
We donate Trust money to organisations outside of the football club and expect nothing back in return yet for monies handed over to our club we expect to be rewarded by a issuing of shares, its a funny old world. | | | |
| Meeting with the club on 08:42 - Jul 3 with 2805 views | 100notout |
| Meeting with the club on 05:52 - Jul 3 by TalkingSutty |
Although i have always been a member of the trust i wasn't aware that part of the Trust constitution was to help the wider community so thanks for that.
Perhaps i was naive but i thought the sole purpose of raising money was to directly benefit the club. Donating money raised by trust members to outside organisations and charities isn't something that i agree with.
I am sure the majority of people contribute to various charities like the hospice etc anyway and personally feel the local communities overall support of its football club is a disgrace ,90% wouldn't care if the club folded tomorrow.
Any monies raised should go directly to benefit the club and donations of sums of money no matter how big or small to outside organisations doesn't sit right with me. We also have regular charity collections inside the turnstiles so fans are regularly making donations.
This post might seem a bit churlish but its black and white to me all monies raised should go into the Football club
If its a one off fund raise for a member of the Dale family( Brandons bed) then i can see why we would do that but the local community thing is a joke in relation to the Football Club.
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Great post TS | |
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| Meeting with the club on 08:57 - Jul 3 with 2792 views | TTNYear |
I would say that most things that the trust help with tick the helping the community box. To be fair also does it mean that every single thing that the trust does has to benefit the community? I would argue that it is an overall objective not specific to each fund raising goal.
So as a trust, just for instance, they could raise money for this van or whatever, but over the year the trust will help out with other community based projects. |  |
| Anti-cliquism is the last refuge of the messageboard scoundrel - Copyright Dorset Dale productions |
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| Meeting with the club on 09:16 - Jul 3 with 2771 views | TalkingSutty |
| Meeting with the club on 08:57 - Jul 3 by TTNYear |
I would say that most things that the trust help with tick the helping the community box. To be fair also does it mean that every single thing that the trust does has to benefit the community? I would argue that it is an overall objective not specific to each fund raising goal.
So as a trust, just for instance, they could raise money for this van or whatever, but over the year the trust will help out with other community based projects. |
I dont see how the Trust which was originally formed with the sole purpose of raising funds for the club and representing supporters is now becoming involved in community projects and donating Trust funds to non footballing matters, the sums involved are immaterial. | | | |
| Meeting with the club on 09:40 - Jul 3 with 2735 views | SuddenLad |
| Meeting with the club on 09:16 - Jul 3 by TalkingSutty |
I dont see how the Trust which was originally formed with the sole purpose of raising funds for the club and representing supporters is now becoming involved in community projects and donating Trust funds to non footballing matters, the sums involved are immaterial. |
Principally, I agree 100% with what you say.
The only stumbling block may be in the detail. Is there something within the constitution which states that the Trust exists for a wider purpose, or is there a stipulation that as a 'charitable' organisation they have a wider remit than just RAFC. ?
Not sure about either, but if that's the case, fair enough.
If not, other causes can look elsewhere for their donations. As you say, there's very little, if anything coming the other way from outside groups and organisations.
Certainly, people may begin to think twice if they discover that their donation to RAFC is being diverted to another organisation that has absolutely no connection with RAFC. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Meeting with the club on 09:54 - Jul 3 with 2715 views | TalkingSutty |
| Meeting with the club on 09:40 - Jul 3 by SuddenLad |
Principally, I agree 100% with what you say.
The only stumbling block may be in the detail. Is there something within the constitution which states that the Trust exists for a wider purpose, or is there a stipulation that as a 'charitable' organisation they have a wider remit than just RAFC. ?
Not sure about either, but if that's the case, fair enough.
If not, other causes can look elsewhere for their donations. As you say, there's very little, if anything coming the other way from outside groups and organisations.
Certainly, people may begin to think twice if they discover that their donation to RAFC is being diverted to another organisation that has absolutely no connection with RAFC. |
Your post is what i was trying to get at really. Cheers | | | |
| Meeting with the club on 11:07 - Jul 3 with 2644 views | MoonyDale |
| Meeting with the club on 09:40 - Jul 3 by SuddenLad |
Principally, I agree 100% with what you say.
The only stumbling block may be in the detail. Is there something within the constitution which states that the Trust exists for a wider purpose, or is there a stipulation that as a 'charitable' organisation they have a wider remit than just RAFC. ?
Not sure about either, but if that's the case, fair enough.
If not, other causes can look elsewhere for their donations. As you say, there's very little, if anything coming the other way from outside groups and organisations.
Certainly, people may begin to think twice if they discover that their donation to RAFC is being diverted to another organisation that has absolutely no connection with RAFC. |
That's pretty much spot on SL, it's down to it being a charitable organisation, there was a link to the constitution document on here somewhere but I can't find it now....Takes a couple of minutes to read but it clears the whole thing up... | |
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| Meeting with the club on 11:15 - Jul 3 with 2636 views | ColDale |
The charity work is a separate thing from any funds from members' contributions. Without trawling through the accounts, any charity contibutions from the Trust usually comes from specific events where it is clearly stated that funds would be going towards it.
For example, last year we made it clear that funds from the POTS evening and the Keith Hill / Quiz evening went towards Grow4Joe. The walk to Accrington that we did last year was specifically raising money for FITC. Previously when funds were given to Cystic Fibrosis, it was again from the POTS evening where it was stated that funds went to those charities. We feel thisis the right way and allows people to decide whether or not they wish to contribute.
So in a similar way, any work with Springhill Hospice this year will be specifically announced as being for them. The Santa Run that is planned is one of their events that we are going to piggy back on (not literally) by encouraging Dale fans to take part.
There is no intention or wish to make any sort of donation other than inthe way we have done. Hope this clears things up.
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| Meeting with the club on 12:04 - Jul 3 with 2591 views | SuddenLad |
| Meeting with the club on 11:15 - Jul 3 by ColDale |
The charity work is a separate thing from any funds from members' contributions. Without trawling through the accounts, any charity contibutions from the Trust usually comes from specific events where it is clearly stated that funds would be going towards it.
For example, last year we made it clear that funds from the POTS evening and the Keith Hill / Quiz evening went towards Grow4Joe. The walk to Accrington that we did last year was specifically raising money for FITC. Previously when funds were given to Cystic Fibrosis, it was again from the POTS evening where it was stated that funds went to those charities. We feel thisis the right way and allows people to decide whether or not they wish to contribute.
So in a similar way, any work with Springhill Hospice this year will be specifically announced as being for them. The Santa Run that is planned is one of their events that we are going to piggy back on (not literally) by encouraging Dale fans to take part.
There is no intention or wish to make any sort of donation other than inthe way we have done. Hope this clears things up.
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Thanks for explaining that Col..
Are the 'charitable donations' made by the Trust an 'obligatory consideration' under the terms of the constitution ?
I think the issue for some seems to be about clarity. Members definitely need to know whether their contributions are specific to RAFC or are to be diverted elsewhere, so that would be the single most important consideration.
No doubt many members would object to funding 'outside agencies' as many will already donate to charities of their choice on a voluntary basis.
As long as the donors know the destination of the money before they donate and it is made clear at every opportunity, I don't see a problem. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Meeting with the club on 12:14 - Jul 3 with 2571 views | D_Alien |
There's also the distinction between members contributions (subs) and monies raised by non trust members as part of a specific fundraising event - that's where the clarity needs to be erm... clear.
Presumably, there are separate arrangements for holding these monies "in trust" prior to utilisation? [Post edited 3 Jul 2014 12:16]
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| Meeting with the club on 13:39 - Jul 3 with 2477 views | ColDale |
| Meeting with the club on 12:04 - Jul 3 by SuddenLad |
Thanks for explaining that Col..
Are the 'charitable donations' made by the Trust an 'obligatory consideration' under the terms of the constitution ?
I think the issue for some seems to be about clarity. Members definitely need to know whether their contributions are specific to RAFC or are to be diverted elsewhere, so that would be the single most important consideration.
No doubt many members would object to funding 'outside agencies' as many will already donate to charities of their choice on a voluntary basis.
As long as the donors know the destination of the money before they donate and it is made clear at every opportunity, I don't see a problem. |
It's not an "obligatory consideration". It's pretty much something that's been decided to do, and choices of charity were put forward as a result of member suggestions and then voted upon. We could put "no charity" forward as one of the options for next year, but personallly speaking, I think that there's no need for that because transparency exists in that it is specific fundraising that goes to a charity rather than members' funds. I think 2 or 3 years ago, we donated around £50ish to round up a Cystic Fibrosis collection, but that from memory is the only out and out donation that has been made. "Trust funds" is not something that we consider to be there to be donated to outside agencies.
Again I think that transparency exists with the way the Trust operates. At the AGM, we make available to all in attendance our accounts for the previous year so any spending by the Trust can rightly be scrutinized. And any sizeable donations are only done with the backing of members through a vote. Without checking, there's a limit that Trust imposes upon itself that it cannot spend without the back of members which I think is about three grand, but even at that level, I'd assumed we'd have to gain some sort of backing from members for donations of that kind. | | | |
| Meeting with the club on 13:43 - Jul 3 with 2472 views | ColDale |
| Meeting with the club on 12:14 - Jul 3 by D_Alien |
There's also the distinction between members contributions (subs) and monies raised by non trust members as part of a specific fundraising event - that's where the clarity needs to be erm... clear.
Presumably, there are separate arrangements for holding these monies "in trust" prior to utilisation? [Post edited 3 Jul 2014 12:16]
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There is. The funds that we had from the "Bowlee Fund" were placed in a high interest account once it became clear that Bowlee was a no go. It wasn't considered to be "Trust funds" that we could just dip in and out of for things left, right and centre, and as such it was left. When it was proposed that there be a change of use to pitch covers, it went to a members vote. As it transpired, the pitch covers we ended up getting were pretty much paid for by the interest acquired in the end, hence the need for a further change of use.
The fact non Trust members have contributed some of this is something we always try and make clear, stating that Dale Supporters have raised the funds rather than Trust members. I'm sure there's the odd time that's slipped through the net, but we are conscious that we should make this clear. | | | |
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