| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:32 - Jan 20 with 1339 views | Chief |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:24 - Jan 20 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What has general concensus got to do with anything? I direct you to the open dialogue where Mr Winter said this. (brackets)
[ Julian pointed out that if the club can sell players for value, they will be sold but will be replaced. This summer there was a need to invest in the team, so we did with Joel Piroe, Michael Obafemi, Flynn Downes etc. Ownership know that there needs to be a contribution, we don’t yet know what that amount will be, because we don’t know whether we will trade in January or in the summer, but there is the ability for them to use the loan note to do so. There will be a blend of ownership contribution and trading.]
We now the loan note was £10m in an all US group then became up to £13m including "other shareholders".
It is reasonable to surmise any new money has gone into this vehicle. Swansea got a former £14m rated footballer from Celtic for free. Celtic have had to pay MK Dons £1.5m which cover a big chunk of Ntcham's contract. I believe the US people have told Martin to get bargains. It is a buyers market as seen with Wolf. 'Fully valued' players are of a lesser interest. All the action will be in the last 2 days and Swansea are ready to pounce for good players available on the cheap like Ntcham. People with 6 months left on their contracts in particular. [Post edited 20 Jan 2022 21:27]
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It was an answer to a question I was asked.
Yes I am aware of what Winter stated previously and increasing the CLN is a viable source for where this money has come from.
If it is, why the secrecy? They announced the initial loan openly in the press.
And this hasn't been confirmed by the article author and Keith stated he didn't think the money is from a loan (it's still unknown if he considers the CLN a loan like I do).
So that's your theory, but I'd still like clarification. |  |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:44 - Jan 20 with 1313 views | KeithHaynes |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:12 - Jan 20 by Chief |
I'm not necessarily saying we are skint, the Rodon money is (or was) evidently there.
But the obvious implication that on top of that more money has been secured by the likes of Silverstein/Americans as per the O'Reilly article is what I'm querying. As well the strange reference to investments and interests.
Those tit bits deserve an article on their own. |
We are always happy to facilitate 👠|  |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:49 - Jan 20 with 1289 views | raynor94 |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:16 - Jan 20 by Chief |
I"d rather know what the terms are in relation to this potential new money rather than living in blissful ignorance.
What I think of their performance as owners to this point is largely irrelevant. I'd still want to know if they were the best owners in the world.
However decisions like this can inform the opinion of them.
But if you're happy to give them carte blanche, good on you. Feel free not to bother posting on threads such as this. [Post edited 20 Jan 2022 21:17]
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No it's OK, I'll keep commenting on club matters when I feel the need to |  |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:51 - Jan 20 with 1281 views | Chief |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:44 - Jan 20 by KeithHaynes |
We are always happy to facilitate 👠|
Excellent - get on the phone to the source! | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:54 - Jan 20 with 1271 views | Chief |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:49 - Jan 20 by raynor94 |
No it's OK, I'll keep commenting on club matters when I feel the need to |
You aren't really though - you said you don't care about the story / discussion.
But for some reason you've taken time out of your day to tell another poster not to post on it. | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 22:12 - Jan 20 with 1237 views | KeithHaynes |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:51 - Jan 20 by Chief |
Excellent - get on the phone to the source! |
He is having a kip after a night out in Paris. | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 22:14 - Jan 20 with 1230 views | Chief |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 22:12 - Jan 20 by KeithHaynes |
He is having a kip after a night out in Paris. |
Hopefully not on the club's coin | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 07:05 - Jan 21 with 1125 views | Dr_Winston |
Some, not all. He's been promising to convert it all for years and hasn't. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 08:23 - Jan 21 with 1079 views | KeithHaynes |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 22:14 - Jan 20 by Chief |
Hopefully not on the club's coin |
Not at all.
Are you an accountant? | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 08:51 - Jan 21 with 1043 views | vetchonian |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 08:23 - Jan 21 by KeithHaynes |
Not at all.
Are you an accountant? |
No just a tax inspector [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 8:52]
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 09:28 - Jan 21 with 1020 views | Catullus |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 20:16 - Jan 20 by KeithHaynes |
Exactly I don’t care where the cash comes from as long as we are legit, if the manager states there’s money or was money then who are any of us to say otherwise ?, |
I think what nails it there is "as long as we are legit"
If everything is above board, within spending rules and not compromising our financial status then what is there to worry about?
I suppose in real terms, compared to the EPL money we are skint but then, compared to some other Championship clubs we are stinking rich. it's all relative.
Obviously people are making stuff up too, it always happens. Before social media we had (do we still have?) silly season in the red tops, all sorts of wild transfer rumours used to come out. I don't read the sports pages very much now so I don't know if it still goes on.
Now positivity, negativity, pragmatism and personal opinions, we see it all on here. I have been positive AND negative. I was happy to see progress, disappointed to see us slip backwards (and worried by it too) so I guess I've been caught in the middle a bit. I can see the positives and the negatives and ask questions accordingly. I've been saying this is a very important window for us and we need it to be a success. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding so we have to wait and see.
I don't have the same cynicism towards martin or the owners that some on here regularly display but neither am I proclaiming him the messiah, not just yet.
Patience is still required. | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 09:45 - Jan 21 with 981 views | onehunglow |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:49 - Jan 20 by raynor94 |
No it's OK, I'll keep commenting on club matters when I feel the need to |
So will I.
We should both be respected for having an opinion | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 10:28 - Jan 21 with 965 views | NotLoyal |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 09:28 - Jan 21 by Catullus |
I think what nails it there is "as long as we are legit"
If everything is above board, within spending rules and not compromising our financial status then what is there to worry about?
I suppose in real terms, compared to the EPL money we are skint but then, compared to some other Championship clubs we are stinking rich. it's all relative.
Obviously people are making stuff up too, it always happens. Before social media we had (do we still have?) silly season in the red tops, all sorts of wild transfer rumours used to come out. I don't read the sports pages very much now so I don't know if it still goes on.
Now positivity, negativity, pragmatism and personal opinions, we see it all on here. I have been positive AND negative. I was happy to see progress, disappointed to see us slip backwards (and worried by it too) so I guess I've been caught in the middle a bit. I can see the positives and the negatives and ask questions accordingly. I've been saying this is a very important window for us and we need it to be a success. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding so we have to wait and see.
I don't have the same cynicism towards martin or the owners that some on here regularly display but neither am I proclaiming him the messiah, not just yet.
Patience is still required. |
Anyone who knows the site owner he isn’t afraid to front anything that is remotely dodgy. Your post about the nail being hit hits the nail on the head. |  |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 10:37 - Jan 21 with 959 views | Catullus |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 10:28 - Jan 21 by NotLoyal |
Anyone who knows the site owner he isn’t afraid to front anything that is remotely dodgy. Your post about the nail being hit hits the nail on the head. |
That's Ok then because I've had many sore thumbs  | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 10:51 - Jan 21 with 954 views | jasper_T |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 07:05 - Jan 21 by Dr_Winston |
Some, not all. He's been promising to convert it all for years and hasn't. |
Difficult to clear it all when the amount of debt has kept growing. There are limits to how much owners can put into a club each year. Wrote off around £140m between 2016 and 2018, but paid himself back £32m in the PL with loans from other parties replacing that figure. Club is still £100m+ in debt like it was when he took over, but it's taken a lot of new ownership equity to keep the figure that low.
Was getting 7% interest on part of his loan, with other parties getting 9%. Money's expensive. | | | |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 11:58 - Jan 21 with 905 views | KeithHaynes |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 07:05 - Jan 21 by Dr_Winston |
Some, not all. He's been promising to convert it all for years and hasn't. |
He will blame Covid, but his figures for writing off stuff are decent. If true of course.
The saviour that was Hammam certainly screwed them over. | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 13:21 - Jan 21 with 857 views | Catullus |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 10:51 - Jan 21 by jasper_T |
Difficult to clear it all when the amount of debt has kept growing. There are limits to how much owners can put into a club each year. Wrote off around £140m between 2016 and 2018, but paid himself back £32m in the PL with loans from other parties replacing that figure. Club is still £100m+ in debt like it was when he took over, but it's taken a lot of new ownership equity to keep the figure that low.
Was getting 7% interest on part of his loan, with other parties getting 9%. Money's expensive. |
100 Million in debt? Surely that triggers FFP rules? I read somewhere (maybe on Anus's site) that they were losing between 2-3 million per month and Tan was putting that in himself. They said he was desperately cutting costs because he can no longer afford to blow so much on football. His business interests having suffered massive losses because of covid.
I don't know if the rules have changed but it used to be you could only lose 13 million in one season if the owner was putting money in. | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 13:42 - Jan 21 with 842 views | jasper_T |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 13:21 - Jan 21 by Catullus |
100 Million in debt? Surely that triggers FFP rules? I read somewhere (maybe on Anus's site) that they were losing between 2-3 million per month and Tan was putting that in himself. They said he was desperately cutting costs because he can no longer afford to blow so much on football. His business interests having suffered massive losses because of covid.
I don't know if the rules have changed but it used to be you could only lose 13 million in one season if the owner was putting money in. |
FFP is judged on losses over 3 years and a season in the PL increases the allowance dramatically, which is how clubs like Stoke can keep pumping money in and escape sanctions for so long (now they're moaning that the rules are unfair, naturally). The total amount of debt isn't a factor - Man Utd have £400m of debt. Barcelona £1.2bn. If a club can afford to service that debt without making too great a loss on the accounts then it's acceptable business. | | | |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 16:52 - Jan 21 with 773 views | Catullus |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 13:42 - Jan 21 by jasper_T |
FFP is judged on losses over 3 years and a season in the PL increases the allowance dramatically, which is how clubs like Stoke can keep pumping money in and escape sanctions for so long (now they're moaning that the rules are unfair, naturally). The total amount of debt isn't a factor - Man Utd have £400m of debt. Barcelona £1.2bn. If a club can afford to service that debt without making too great a loss on the accounts then it's acceptable business. |
Yes jasper, in the EFL you could lose 100 million but not for 3 years straight. Cardiff have been losing over 20 million per year, f they are still losing that much going into next season they'll trigger FFP surely? | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 18:25 - Jan 21 with 727 views | jasper_T |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 16:52 - Jan 21 by Catullus |
Yes jasper, in the EFL you could lose 100 million but not for 3 years straight. Cardiff have been losing over 20 million per year, f they are still losing that much going into next season they'll trigger FFP surely? |
17/18 - £34m (allowance £13m)
18/19 - £750k (£35m)
19/20 - £12m (£13m)
FFP rules mean you can write off certain expenses (like some academy spending) so the loss values used will be lower than these, but even so they're currently within the boundaries due to the season in the top flight. 20/21 accounts should be published before the end of the season, and will show the effects of covid and a season without their short parachute period. It's when a club has three consecutive years in the Championship that panic will set in if they haven't cut costs appropriately. And even then it still takes another year for accounts to be published and the EFL to begin thinking about maybe doing something about it. | | | |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 18:45 - Jan 21 with 700 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 18:25 - Jan 21 by jasper_T |
17/18 - £34m (allowance £13m)
18/19 - £750k (£35m)
19/20 - £12m (£13m)
FFP rules mean you can write off certain expenses (like some academy spending) so the loss values used will be lower than these, but even so they're currently within the boundaries due to the season in the top flight. 20/21 accounts should be published before the end of the season, and will show the effects of covid and a season without their short parachute period. It's when a club has three consecutive years in the Championship that panic will set in if they haven't cut costs appropriately. And even then it still takes another year for accounts to be published and the EFL to begin thinking about maybe doing something about it. |
Jasper seems a grumpy bugger at times, especially around Chris Gunter ðŸ˜, but sure appears to know his onions, fair play. Always informative. |  | | |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 19:00 - Jan 21 with 693 views | jasper_T |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 18:45 - Jan 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Jasper seems a grumpy bugger at times, especially around Chris Gunter ðŸ˜, but sure appears to know his onions, fair play. Always informative. |
Don't get me started on onions. | | | |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 20:52 - Jan 21 with 614 views | KeithHaynes |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 19:00 - Jan 21 by jasper_T |
Don't get me started on onions. |
Cerbola bien desde Sevilla hombres. | |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:24 - Jan 21 with 585 views | Dewi1jack |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 07:05 - Jan 21 by Dr_Winston |
Some, not all. He's been promising to convert it all for years and hasn't. |
The story is from 2 and a half years ago.
Their debt's increased since then and about to go a big bit higher now they've run out of appeals in trying not to pay for a player they killed |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 22:54 - Jan 21 with 525 views | BillyChong |
| Are people making things up to suit their own narrative ? on 21:24 - Jan 21 by Dewi1jack |
The story is from 2 and a half years ago.
Their debt's increased since then and about to go a big bit higher now they've run out of appeals in trying not to pay for a player they killed |
All the reason why we should be scrutinising any ‘investment’ in the form of loans with added interest | | | |
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