| What a bunch of ******** 19:41 - Apr 12 with 2883 views | trampie |
The English led Labour Government are stepping in to help Scunny steelworks yet they did very little to help Port Talbot.
Looks like naked racism to me, Port Talbot had a bigger capacity and a harbour, both should have been saved due to the importance to the UK but if only one was to be saved it should have been Port Talbot, it smells of anti Wales racism. |  |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 19:55 - Apr 12 with 1656 views | Whiterockin |
Or lack of enthusiasm by the Welsh Government who should have done so much more. Both should have been saved. |  | | |
| What a bunch of ******** on 19:55 - Apr 12 with 1656 views | blackswan |
Both should have been privatised and steel manufactured used for all uk government infrastructure don't think it's racism both labour and conservatives are bloody useless
Our manufacturing has been decimated and as for importing oil and gas from half way around the world when we have reserves in north sea crazy |  | | |
| What a bunch of ******** on 19:58 - Apr 12 with 1655 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
World events have brought the requirement for a country to produce it's own top quality steel into clear focus. As several posters have repeatedly said you need to be self sufficient in the event of armed or other conflict.
Rather like the US we have hollowed out our manufacturing, preferring to sell bonds to other countries to fund our economy. Trump has called time because the Chinese in particular hold so much in US Treasury Bonds that they are a threat to the functioning of the US financial system.
Starmer seems to have woken up at the very last minute, Scunthorpe is on a knife edge. The truth is that both Port Talbot and Scunthorpe should be operating blast furnaces using UK coal, it's a matter of national security the eco loons have got away with a myopic view rather than a balanced approach. Trump may sound like an idiot but he's woken a few politicians up who think that tomorrow will be like yesterday. |  |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 20:02 - Apr 12 with 1651 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| What a bunch of ******** on 19:55 - Apr 12 by blackswan |
Both should have been privatised and steel manufactured used for all uk government infrastructure don't think it's racism both labour and conservatives are bloody useless
Our manufacturing has been decimated and as for importing oil and gas from half way around the world when we have reserves in north sea crazy |
We import loads of fertilizer and petrochemicals as we have cut these carbon hungry processes from our industrial base. We have just exported our CO2 production and pay through the nose for the privilege, it's complete and utter nonsense. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 20:13 - Apr 12 with 1636 views | Scotia |
Port Talbot will make the most of those facilities due to its Freeport status, we could end up with more jobs than were at Tata. Two of the UK Freeport's are in Wales.
Personally I think that the UK, should be trying to become a world leader in steel production using Hydrogen. | | | |
| What a bunch of ******** on 21:01 - Apr 12 with 1591 views | max936 |
| What a bunch of ******** on 20:13 - Apr 12 by Scotia |
Port Talbot will make the most of those facilities due to its Freeport status, we could end up with more jobs than were at Tata. Two of the UK Freeport's are in Wales.
Personally I think that the UK, should be trying to become a world leader in steel production using Hydrogen. |
What do you know about Hydrogen Energy then ??? |  |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 21:12 - Apr 12 with 1567 views | raynor94 |
| What a bunch of ******** on 20:13 - Apr 12 by Scotia |
Port Talbot will make the most of those facilities due to its Freeport status, we could end up with more jobs than were at Tata. Two of the UK Freeport's are in Wales.
Personally I think that the UK, should be trying to become a world leader in steel production using Hydrogen. |
What do you know about virgin steel? |  |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 22:00 - Apr 12 with 1520 views | Scotia |
| What a bunch of ******** on 21:12 - Apr 12 by raynor94 |
What do you know about virgin steel? |
That we can't carry on making it using fossil fuels. | | | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 22:12 - Apr 12 with 1492 views | Kilkennyjack |
| What a bunch of ******** on 20:13 - Apr 12 by Scotia |
Port Talbot will make the most of those facilities due to its Freeport status, we could end up with more jobs than were at Tata. Two of the UK Freeport's are in Wales.
Personally I think that the UK, should be trying to become a world leader in steel production using Hydrogen. |
Freeports are not wanted in Wales.
Profits before people shite Tory idea. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| What a bunch of ******** on 22:18 - Apr 12 with 1472 views | Kilkennyjack |
Of course its critical.
Of course you need two sites because its so critical.
Labour have failed Port Talbot, what a mess.
Add this to HS2 robbery, Crown Estate robbery, Sy Davids day snub, EU replacement funds robbery, and looks like only Plaid will always bat for Wales.
Starmer is a unionist to his expensive boots. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| What a bunch of ******** on 22:41 - Apr 12 with 1447 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| What a bunch of ******** on 22:00 - Apr 12 by Scotia |
That we can't carry on making it using fossil fuels. |
Of course we can in a balanced way. The plan is net zero not total zero. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 22:50 - Apr 12 with 1431 views | Boundy |
| What a bunch of ******** on 22:00 - Apr 12 by Scotia |
That we can't carry on making it using fossil fuels. |
Why not ? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 00:27 - Apr 13 with 1379 views | Robbie |
Virgin Steel needs carbon derived from coal , our valleys are abundant with the mineral if mined safely and properly , open cast mining has died a death .
Bulk carriers of coal and iron ore are waiting around off shore to import their goods anywhere who will pay the best .
The USA do not want goods like that anymore or maybe just for the time being .
Another nail in Labours coffin to my eyes , one rule for one , another for the other .
Sure TATA India look in and laugh at our production base while still they pour out pollutants caused by their plants into the atmoshpere .
Carbon footprint worldwide reduction , what a joke . | | | |
| What a bunch of ******** on 05:37 - Apr 13 with 1327 views | AnotherJohn |
| What a bunch of ******** on 21:12 - Apr 12 by raynor94 |
What do you know about virgin steel? |
I am not an expert on this, but from what I have read the way forward with virgin steel is a DRI (directly-reduced iron) plant combined with either an EAF or an electric smelting furnace optimised to work with DRI (such as the Outotec furnace in link below). The DRI plant converts ore to metallic iron ("sponge iron") that can be processed into steel by the EAF/ESF. The direct reduction of iron ore uses a reducing gas that removes oxygen from the iron oxides, and one version uses hydrogen. The advantage of hydrogen over natural gas is that it produces no CO2. This is what Tata is building at its IJmuiden facility in the Netherlands. With adequate investment and preplanning of the EAF, so as to be compatible with the later addition of a DRI plant, Port Talbot could be the same.
https://eurometal.net/tata-steel-moves-forward-with-first-phase-of-green-steel-p
https://www.metso.com/portfolio/dri-smelting-furnace/
Edit: more background here for anybody interested.
This makes an interesting comment on the advantage of an ESF over an EAF, "ESF technology offers steelmakers greater flexibility. They can either use their own DRI or trade all ranges of DRI products based on their value-in-use (VIU) analysis; in contrast DRI-EAF producers are technically limited to high-grade iron ore products." An ESF can process sponge iron made from lower grade ores as well.
https://www.woodmac.com/news/opinion/whats-next-for-green-steel-technologies/#:~ [Post edited 13 Apr 7:19]
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| What a bunch of ******** on 07:49 - Apr 13 with 1271 views | Scotia |
| What a bunch of ******** on 22:41 - Apr 12 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Of course we can in a balanced way. The plan is net zero not total zero. |
Fossil fuel steel production produces far too much Co2.
We'll always produce greenhouse gases through our activity in some form, even through food production or construction, there's no room to produce them in massive quantities from an activity for which there could be an alternative. | | | |
| What a bunch of ******** on 08:26 - Apr 13 with 1224 views | trampie |
Welsh taxpayers paying to keep an Inferior English steelworks going, inferior to Port Talbot as was that is.
Grangemouth refinery in Scotland going, Scottish taxpayers paying to keep an English works going, English leaders not prepared for English taxpayers to keep vital Welsh and Scottish plants fully operational. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 08:33 - Apr 13 with 1206 views | trampie |
English led UK Labour Government said they could do nothing to save Grangemouth or Port Talbot as they were owned by private foreign companies, Scunthorpe also owned by a private foreign company when about to close down Labour says we can't lose English jobs we will recall Parliament and effectively nationalise it and let taxpayers in Scotland and Wales keep the English in work.
It looks like naked racism. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 09:15 - Apr 13 with 1147 views | trampie |
Scunthorpe steelworks is about 25 miles from the docks, the raw materials needed to power the blast furnaces need to be off loaded at the dock and transported across England to the steelworks, its going to be expensive for the UK taxpayer, Port Talbot had its own deep water harbour and Port Talbots blast furnaces were bigger than Scunthorpe's two remaining blast furnaces.
If any blast furnaces should have been kept going with Government subsidies it should have been Port Talbots and not Scunthorpes, I personally would have nationalised both plants but if only one is to survive they are keeping the wrong one and it its going to cost the taxpayer more to keep Scunthorpe going than it would have Port Talbot. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 09:24 - Apr 13 with 1112 views | Scotia |
| What a bunch of ******** on 09:15 - Apr 13 by trampie |
Scunthorpe steelworks is about 25 miles from the docks, the raw materials needed to power the blast furnaces need to be off loaded at the dock and transported across England to the steelworks, its going to be expensive for the UK taxpayer, Port Talbot had its own deep water harbour and Port Talbots blast furnaces were bigger than Scunthorpe's two remaining blast furnaces.
If any blast furnaces should have been kept going with Government subsidies it should have been Port Talbots and not Scunthorpes, I personally would have nationalised both plants but if only one is to survive they are keeping the wrong one and it its going to cost the taxpayer more to keep Scunthorpe going than it would have Port Talbot. |
I think Port Talbot was losing pretty much double what Scunthorpe is though. | | | |
| What a bunch of ******** on 09:27 - Apr 13 with 1112 views | trampie |
Have the English led UK government had their trousers pulled down by the Chinese ?
Have the Chinese deliberately kept Scunthorpe limping along waiting for what was left of the UK steel industry to effectively close down and when they became the last pebble on the beach they would shut down their plant to more or less finish UK steelmaking.
It's said the Government couldn't understand why the Chinese owners were not talking not listening to financial inducements but just apparently hell bent on shutting it, UK government wondering has Beijing manipulated the situation to leave the UK to being the only first world country without the ability to make virgin steel.
If so Beijing has played a blinder as the UK will be left with a worse and less economically viable plant than Port Talbot. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 09:42 - Apr 13 with 1086 views | trampie |
| What a bunch of ******** on 09:24 - Apr 13 by Scotia |
I think Port Talbot was losing pretty much double what Scunthorpe is though. |
The more you make the more you lose, Scunny just limping along.
If you lose £100 a ton for example and make millions of tons you will lose a lot more money than if you only made thousands of tons.
Port Talbot would have lost less money if it had mothballed its furnaces for a period of time and paid the majority of its workers just to stay in the house than it did by carrying on and fulfilling its orders.
The cost of industrial electricity in this country is the highest in the World, its the reason why steelmaking in the UK is not profitable, its why Port Talbot should have been nationalised.
A little side story and no political point scoring but Plaid Cymru wanted Port Talbot to be nationalised Labour laughted at them but now Labour realise the last works is going to the wall and they are prepared to nationalise it in all but name anyway | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 09:55 - Apr 13 with 1053 views | onehunglow |
| What a bunch of ******** on 09:42 - Apr 13 by trampie |
The more you make the more you lose, Scunny just limping along.
If you lose £100 a ton for example and make millions of tons you will lose a lot more money than if you only made thousands of tons.
Port Talbot would have lost less money if it had mothballed its furnaces for a period of time and paid the majority of its workers just to stay in the house than it did by carrying on and fulfilling its orders.
The cost of industrial electricity in this country is the highest in the World, its the reason why steelmaking in the UK is not profitable, its why Port Talbot should have been nationalised.
A little side story and no political point scoring but Plaid Cymru wanted Port Talbot to be nationalised Labour laughted at them but now Labour realise the last works is going to the wall and they are prepared to nationalise it in all but name anyway |
My God, you really do hate the Rnglish
Every post infused with distain | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 09:58 - Apr 13 with 1046 views | swan65split |
| What a bunch of ******** on 19:58 - Apr 12 by JACKMANANDBOY |
World events have brought the requirement for a country to produce it's own top quality steel into clear focus. As several posters have repeatedly said you need to be self sufficient in the event of armed or other conflict.
Rather like the US we have hollowed out our manufacturing, preferring to sell bonds to other countries to fund our economy. Trump has called time because the Chinese in particular hold so much in US Treasury Bonds that they are a threat to the functioning of the US financial system.
Starmer seems to have woken up at the very last minute, Scunthorpe is on a knife edge. The truth is that both Port Talbot and Scunthorpe should be operating blast furnaces using UK coal, it's a matter of national security the eco loons have got away with a myopic view rather than a balanced approach. Trump may sound like an idiot but he's woken a few politicians up who think that tomorrow will be like yesterday. |
We should have learnt from the 80s, they shut the coke ovens as the powers to be thought it was cheaper to import already produced coke, once we stopped producing the price of coke shot up , so we had to build a coke producing plant again.
A recent you tube video where people went in and filmed the now redundant harbour and furnaces, where i worked on both, showed they were in drastic need of refurbishment, probably showing a lack of maintenance , which will lead to total breakdown, this must have been known and relayed to those that "lead us"
add to that the openong of anew big BF in india not long after ours shut speaks volumes, we need to produce at home "certain products" and not be held to ransom by others. and that has been our failure since Thatchers days. [Post edited 13 Apr 10:00]
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| What a bunch of ******** on 09:58 - Apr 13 with 1046 views | trampie |
Have British warships intercepted the iron ore and coke ships heading to Immingham docks yet ?, that is the talk, that the British navy is going to escort the ship(s) to Immingham docks to make sure the ship(s) don't turn round or go elsewhere, talk that the Chinese were/started to starve the blast furnaces to death. | |
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| What a bunch of ******** on 13:53 - Apr 13 with 904 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| What a bunch of ******** on 22:18 - Apr 12 by Kilkennyjack |
Of course its critical.
Of course you need two sites because its so critical.
Labour have failed Port Talbot, what a mess.
Add this to HS2 robbery, Crown Estate robbery, Sy Davids day snub, EU replacement funds robbery, and looks like only Plaid will always bat for Wales.
Starmer is a unionist to his expensive boots. |
It is not good for business to have two or three bank holidays for Wales Scotland Ireland and England. Many companies have regional offices and projects need to be finished by working together.
With each bank holiday 3-4 days work will be lost because a key worker cannot complete a piece of works with a strict deadline. Wales is not a separate island state..
I had a chat with a Neath person the other day and many laid off workers were ambivalent about Port Talbot downsizing as many of those released were getting on in age and happy to take a pay off and pension. I am not saying this is widespread and clearly not good for south Wales. At least the locals lungs will improve especially the young children.
The raw steel requirement for the British army is limited I would think. UK has only a few hundred tanks and fighting vehicles with quality over quantity the target. Drones a are the military of the future. Ships and tanks are looking very vulnerable.
The Royal Navy with two giant aircraft carriers needs to keep them well out of missile range. Perhaps this is why they are talking of selling one off. [Post edited 13 Apr 14:00]
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