| STADIUM EXPANSION 18:03 - May 4 with 4453 views | johnlangy |
Yes, again.
Over the last few games we've all been saying the Club should try to attract people with Kids for a quid or whatever, saying those children will become proper supporters, a new generation and all that but you've got to get them through the door first. Those games were against Derby, Plymouth, Hull and Oxford. No offence to those clubs but the time that idea would have had a huge effect in attracting youngsters would have been in the PL. The problem was that there were no seats to accommodate them.
We've just had an excellent run-in with the result that the last two gates were just under 19k and 20k. What would the demand have been if those games were for a place in the play offs ? What would the demand have been if it was the actual play off semi ? Remember 2011 ?
The usual argument against is money. We should spend the money on the team. Another argument is from people who ask if the demand is there. There definitely is a demand imo as these last couple of games have shown again.
I don't suggest spending now because the 'spend on the team' argument is correct at the moment. But if we do manage to get to the PL again I believe the diggers should be in asap after the final game.
My reasoning is this. The first time we spent on the academy and the 1st team training facility. The two combined came to about £25 million from memory (roughly ?). But over the seven years TV money came to over £800 million ! And the vast bulk of that went into the players pockets. And with the last throw of the dice HJ spent probably £60 million or more on Ayew and Bony with their transfer costs and contracts. How does that spend compare with the investment in permanent Club infrastructure ? Do we want it all go to the players ?
If we do get there the only Club infra that we CAN spend on would be expanding the stadium and I believe that's exactly what we should do.
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 18:22 - May 4 with 2485 views | Whiterockin |
A smaller percentage now comes from match day income compared to other streams of revenue TV, streaming, comercial ect. Brentford and Bournemouth are now established Premier League clubs and reasonably successful with smaller grounds than us. Sell out what we have, create an intimidating atmosphere and spend the money elsewhere. Then if we are an established Premier League club in the future concider if it is worthwhile. |  | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 18:51 - May 4 with 2421 views | johnlangy |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 18:22 - May 4 by Whiterockin |
A smaller percentage now comes from match day income compared to other streams of revenue TV, streaming, comercial ect. Brentford and Bournemouth are now established Premier League clubs and reasonably successful with smaller grounds than us. Sell out what we have, create an intimidating atmosphere and spend the money elsewhere. Then if we are an established Premier League club in the future concider if it is worthwhile. |
Well the owners may say we'll do the usual consolidation the first year and we'll expand the second. Who knows.
I'd do it straightaway.
I saw something a while ago about Luton and what they did after promotion. They spent just £28 million (from memory) on players. Then planned on using a large amount of the rest of the PL money to build a new 25,000 seater stadium. And being relegated to league one hasn't changed that, they're still going ahead. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:02 - May 4 with 2377 views | Whiterockin |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 18:51 - May 4 by johnlangy |
Well the owners may say we'll do the usual consolidation the first year and we'll expand the second. Who knows.
I'd do it straightaway.
I saw something a while ago about Luton and what they did after promotion. They spent just £28 million (from memory) on players. Then planned on using a large amount of the rest of the PL money to build a new 25,000 seater stadium. And being relegated to league one hasn't changed that, they're still going ahead. |
Is a reasonable shout if they don't drop even further. Look at Milton Keynes 30,500 expandable to 45,000 state of the art stadium they can't fill. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:07 - May 4 with 2359 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Stadiums fine for where we are. Clubs like Swansea and a lot in this league have a lot of fair weather fans. Will drop to 12k like when we were struggling under Williams but could have had 35-40k when we were in the prem. |  |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:16 - May 4 with 2325 views | RhonddaSwans |
I watched a feature on Bournemouth before talking about ground expansion.
The money that it would cost is astronomical.
Without being able to fill the stadium what would be the point?
Man U have a waiting list for season tickets so building the new stadium makes sense.
With us at this level it wouldn’t be worth it.
We do have existing planning I believe to take the ground upto 34,000
If we get major investment into the squad and then get back too the prem.
that would be the only time I believe this plan would come off.
Think about it if Swansea and Wrexham get to the top flight .
Then stay there we could have half behind us half behind them.
https://www.asbriplanning.co.uk/projects/liberty-stadium#:~:text=The%20extension | |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:21 - May 4 with 2299 views | Whiterockin |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:07 - May 4 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Stadiums fine for where we are. Clubs like Swansea and a lot in this league have a lot of fair weather fans. Will drop to 12k like when we were struggling under Williams but could have had 35-40k when we were in the prem. |
Exactly. Look at our neighbours up the road most of the time half the stadium is closed off. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:41 - May 4 with 2225 views | RhonddaSwans |
Talking stadiums 🏟️
Luton’s new ground is looking good 😌.
Money of a season in the prem put to good work.
As Luton’s current ground is mental.
Walking through someone’s back garden to watch a game.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24qm6v31d4o | |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 20:18 - May 4 with 2107 views | KeithHaynes |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:21 - May 4 by Whiterockin |
Exactly. Look at our neighbours up the road most of the time half the stadium is closed off. |
And they’ve always rented their training ground. |  |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 20:25 - May 4 with 2078 views | Whiterockin |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 20:18 - May 4 by KeithHaynes |
And they’ve always rented their training ground. |
Don't we lease Fairwood off Swansea University? | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:11 - May 4 with 1926 views | RhonddaSwans |
God alive 😮.
60k seats 😲 just why?
If they don’t kick on properly and become a premiership team.
That will be a massive burden.
In the West Midlands the amount of teams there are Villa , Wolves , WBA , Coventry , Walsall how will the have the fan base?
This must be a long term thinking 🤔.
Like at the start of this thread if we went to 34k we would have to be a prem mainstay.
Is ground expansion like this just good business if you have a solid plan in place to become a bigger club?
If Cardiff stagnate in league one like I am praying for.
The next generation in south wales will be up for grabs so to speak .
I still can’t believe that Birmingham want a 60k seater stadium mind . | |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:16 - May 4 with 1910 views | sons_of_omri |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:07 - May 4 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Stadiums fine for where we are. Clubs like Swansea and a lot in this league have a lot of fair weather fans. Will drop to 12k like when we were struggling under Williams but could have had 35-40k when we were in the prem. |
The idea though is the correct one. I think it’s imperative that we get to 30k because once we do get back to the premier we then capture those extra fans. When we go back down we could then hopefully average 18 - 22k . We used to max out in the vetch with 10k - we’ve come this far so I think it’s time for the next step. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:22 - May 4 with 1896 views | Whiterockin |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:11 - May 4 by RhonddaSwans |
God alive 😮.
60k seats 😲 just why?
If they don’t kick on properly and become a premiership team.
That will be a massive burden.
In the West Midlands the amount of teams there are Villa , Wolves , WBA , Coventry , Walsall how will the have the fan base?
This must be a long term thinking 🤔.
Like at the start of this thread if we went to 34k we would have to be a prem mainstay.
Is ground expansion like this just good business if you have a solid plan in place to become a bigger club?
If Cardiff stagnate in league one like I am praying for.
The next generation in south wales will be up for grabs so to speak .
I still can’t believe that Birmingham want a 60k seater stadium mind . |
I don't think you realise the population of the West Midlands. It's over 6 million, nearly twice the population of Wales, two thirds the population of London with all their football teams. Of course Birmingham alone can support two Premier League clubs and a 60,000 seater stadium. It's bigger than Manchester with its two clubs. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:58 - May 4 with 1836 views | RhonddaSwans |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:22 - May 4 by Whiterockin |
I don't think you realise the population of the West Midlands. It's over 6 million, nearly twice the population of Wales, two thirds the population of London with all their football teams. Of course Birmingham alone can support two Premier League clubs and a 60,000 seater stadium. It's bigger than Manchester with its two clubs. |
Season Competition Average
24/25 League One 26,663
23/24 Championship 21,180
22/23 Championship 16,758
21/22 Championship 16,162
This is their average attendance over the last few seasons
This is Aston Villa’s don’t forget Villa are also expanding their ground soon to 50k+
24/25 Premier League 42,022
23/24 Premier League 41,921
22/23 Premier League 41,707
21/22 Premier League 41,651
This is wolves
24/25 Premier League 30,635
23/24 Premier League 31,037
22/23 Premier League 31,423
21/22 Premier League 30,692
The population thing is right you are spot on about how big it is.
Isn’t Birmingham Englands 2nd largest city?
Just going off population of an area means nothing when it comes to it.
Unless Birmingham becomes like Man City II just can’t see them needing a ground so big.
Come on 60k?
This stadium will be for music and stuff like the spurs stadium.
It will be mad this summer to see how they spend in the window.
I don’t think we had seen a league one side spend over 10 mil on a player before them. | |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 06:09 - May 5 with 1658 views | Whiterockin |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:58 - May 4 by RhonddaSwans |
Season Competition Average
24/25 League One 26,663
23/24 Championship 21,180
22/23 Championship 16,758
21/22 Championship 16,162
This is their average attendance over the last few seasons
This is Aston Villa’s don’t forget Villa are also expanding their ground soon to 50k+
24/25 Premier League 42,022
23/24 Premier League 41,921
22/23 Premier League 41,707
21/22 Premier League 41,651
This is wolves
24/25 Premier League 30,635
23/24 Premier League 31,037
22/23 Premier League 31,423
21/22 Premier League 30,692
The population thing is right you are spot on about how big it is.
Isn’t Birmingham Englands 2nd largest city?
Just going off population of an area means nothing when it comes to it.
Unless Birmingham becomes like Man City II just can’t see them needing a ground so big.
Come on 60k?
This stadium will be for music and stuff like the spurs stadium.
It will be mad this summer to see how they spend in the window.
I don’t think we had seen a league one side spend over 10 mil on a player before them. |
Villa capacity now 42,000 [I can remember it being over 60,000 and full] and are expanding to 52,000, Wolves capacity 31,700 and intend to expand to 50,000 both grounds are virtually full every week and need to expand. Birmingham capacity 29,000 so virtually full except for the away end in league one. With the investment going in Birmingham will fill the 60,000 when they are in the premier League. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 06:33 - May 5 with 1641 views | PawelAbbott |
Expanding the ground is going to be inevitable at some point. The cost of running the club goes up every year. Players wage demands go up every year. The only options for the club are to get more people in or charge more for those who come. The alternative is to fall down the league.
Quite how they then attract a bigger attendance is another question. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 07:31 - May 5 with 1596 views | Dr_Winston |
If football clubs keep upping the price of match day tickets then they're going to need smaller grounds, not bigger ones.
Expanding like this might make sense if they try to get twice as many in but charge them half as much. The Bundesliga are way ahead of us on this. Have your corporate or premium areas, but otherwise just get the stands full.
Match day income constitutes less than a quarter of our annual revenue these days. A figure that might drop even further if we do increase commercial income as planned. Hopefully there will be some wiggle room with regards ticket prices going forward. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 09:29 - May 5 with 1426 views | 1983 |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:07 - May 4 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Stadiums fine for where we are. Clubs like Swansea and a lot in this league have a lot of fair weather fans. Will drop to 12k like when we were struggling under Williams but could have had 35-40k when we were in the prem. |
Bang on the money |  |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 09:43 - May 5 with 1382 views | Boundy |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 22:22 - May 4 by Whiterockin |
I don't think you realise the population of the West Midlands. It's over 6 million, nearly twice the population of Wales, two thirds the population of London with all their football teams. Of course Birmingham alone can support two Premier League clubs and a 60,000 seater stadium. It's bigger than Manchester with its two clubs. |
Maybe the population dynamic needs to be considered , I believe a disproportionate amount of Asian lads don't follow football? and because of BFC have been in the doldrums more than on the up people just don't bother. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| STADIUM EXPANSION on 12:16 - May 5 with 1262 views | howenjack |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 09:43 - May 5 by Boundy |
Maybe the population dynamic needs to be considered , I believe a disproportionate amount of Asian lads don't follow football? and because of BFC have been in the doldrums more than on the up people just don't bother. |
Population of Birmingham alone is massive - well over 1 million official . Unofficial it will be more than that . You are right about the population dynamic though , year on year the ethnic population grows disproportionately larger than the indigenous. The area surrounding the Blues' ground is pretty much 70 % asian for at least 2 miles in all directions but to a lesser extent down to the Digbeth side and it will continue like this for the foreseeable future. This is where the transport issue is key for them . Wagner knows this as the fans will be coming in from the suburbs . He is pressing hard for a tunnel to be built to transport fans from Birmingham Central straight to the ground . Cost has been mooted at 300 m + . Can't see that happening myself in the present crisis - see bin strike e.g . The roads around " new ground" are totally insufficient for that sort of crowd figure.
Even the access trains at present from Moor st. Station can't cope with the numbers of fans with delays overcrowding etc. proving off putting.
Transport to and from the new ground will be crucial to this project being a success and the American owners know this - that part of Birmingham is very built up and congested with old established infrastructure and lots of terraced housing with the problems of cars being parked on pavements etc by the residents adding to issues
This is the conundrum and it is not going to be easy to solve a better solution would have been a totally new rebuild on brownfield site on outskirts , near to motor way access. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 12:40 - May 5 with 1228 views | johnlangy |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 06:09 - May 5 by Whiterockin |
Villa capacity now 42,000 [I can remember it being over 60,000 and full] and are expanding to 52,000, Wolves capacity 31,700 and intend to expand to 50,000 both grounds are virtually full every week and need to expand. Birmingham capacity 29,000 so virtually full except for the away end in league one. With the investment going in Birmingham will fill the 60,000 when they are in the premier League. |
Earlier comments suggested we stay as we are because we may not maintain our PL status (when we get there again - just being positive) and 21,000 is enough for when we get relegated back to the Champ.
Then wr says Wolves need to expand because their ground is virtually full every week. So they need to expand even though they may very easily have been one of the teams relegated this season. Crystal Palace are in the process of expanding their ground. They've had a good season this year but it's perfectly possible they'll have a bad season next year and may end up relegated.
Half the teams in the PL could possible be the ones relegated each season. Not many are almost guaranteed to stay up.
Why are the Swans different ? | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 13:56 - May 5 with 1143 views | SullutaCreturned |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 19:21 - May 4 by Whiterockin |
Exactly. Look at our neighbours up the road most of the time half the stadium is closed off. |
I don't think expanding it up to 34k will ever be a thing. However, I can see the value in putting an extra 4 or 5k on.
We'd fill it most of th time in the Premier and then we'd get it mostly full if we were in the play offs or on a good cup run and draw decent teams.
There's no harm in having the ambition but we just have to be sensible about it. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 14:10 - May 5 with 1114 views | johnlangy |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 13:56 - May 5 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't think expanding it up to 34k will ever be a thing. However, I can see the value in putting an extra 4 or 5k on.
We'd fill it most of th time in the Premier and then we'd get it mostly full if we were in the play offs or on a good cup run and draw decent teams.
There's no harm in having the ambition but we just have to be sensible about it. |
Agreed about being sensible.
Someone earlier mentioned 34,000 because he reckoned the original planning approval was for that figure. When I brought this idea up I wasn't thinking of 34,000.
But I also wasn't thinking about 4/5 k extra either. We filled the stadium at 21k for every game when we were in the PL. Which means to me that there was more support available for even the least attractive teams.
To me 30k is the correct target. The least attractive games would reach 25/26 thousand, some others would be 27/28 and the big 6 or 7 Clubs would fill the stadium. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 17:21 - May 5 with 978 views | SullutaCreturned |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 14:10 - May 5 by johnlangy |
Agreed about being sensible.
Someone earlier mentioned 34,000 because he reckoned the original planning approval was for that figure. When I brought this idea up I wasn't thinking of 34,000.
But I also wasn't thinking about 4/5 k extra either. We filled the stadium at 21k for every game when we were in the PL. Which means to me that there was more support available for even the least attractive teams.
To me 30k is the correct target. The least attractive games would reach 25/26 thousand, some others would be 27/28 and the big 6 or 7 Clubs would fill the stadium. |
That's why I hedged my bet. 25k would be full every week in the Prem but (as long as the prices were sensible) woud only be full every now and then outside the Prem.
When I see the CCS on tv and the upper tier is always empty, it doesn't look good. We'd need sustained success over a decade to build to a 30k stadium that's usually at leats 90% full. That means being in the Prem AND being established like Everton or Villa. | | | |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 21:52 - May 5 with 764 views | sons_of_omri |
| STADIUM EXPANSION on 17:21 - May 5 by SullutaCreturned |
That's why I hedged my bet. 25k would be full every week in the Prem but (as long as the prices were sensible) woud only be full every now and then outside the Prem.
When I see the CCS on tv and the upper tier is always empty, it doesn't look good. We'd need sustained success over a decade to build to a 30k stadium that's usually at leats 90% full. That means being in the Prem AND being established like Everton or Villa. |
I agree success helps but we definitely could have had 30k for some (if not most) of our PL games because the interest was definitely there. If we’d had that capacity then with the right product and pricing (we could be a lot more flexible with family tickets for example and pay on the day) we could average over 21,000 even in the Championship.
The club had a seven year stay in the top flight , won the League Cup and played well in Europe. It’s been done recently , people have witnessed it so it’s not like we were going into the PL with relegation a likely outcome. We’ve done better and there’s still more to come I’m sure . | | | |
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