| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:03 - Sep 7 with 1717 views | RodgerTheDodger |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 15:54 - Sep 7 by jack247 |
You keep mentioning patience shown to Cullen.
The reality is, we’ve just recruited really badly up front since Piroe. If Yates and Kukharevych hadn’t failed, he’d have been gone. They were around £2m each I think and both were signed to play ahead of him.
If Vipotnik had been decent last season, he’d still have been here, but wouldn’t have started any games up front. He’d more likely have been used as a second striker when we were chasing games, or in midfield.
It’s very hard to see him playing as a centre forward from here on in regardless. |
Yes, but it's not the player. It's the player in the team with the team management. If any of those three is wrong you don't get performances. Given that Vipi was asked to play in a way that didn't fit his style, it's not surprising he didn't get results.
And you can add 'the town'. If the player dislikes the town where he's living it will have a negative effect. Players are like that, full of emotions. [Post edited 7 Sep 16:05]
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| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:14 - Sep 7 with 1668 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:03 - Sep 7 by RodgerTheDodger |
Yes, but it's not the player. It's the player in the team with the team management. If any of those three is wrong you don't get performances. Given that Vipi was asked to play in a way that didn't fit his style, it's not surprising he didn't get results.
And you can add 'the town'. If the player dislikes the town where he's living it will have a negative effect. Players are like that, full of emotions. [Post edited 7 Sep 16:05]
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Let’s knock this one on the head as well.
You can blame Luke Williams for the way we set up
You can blame other players for not providing the support Vipotnik/Idah are likely to get from Inoussa, Stamenic, Widdell etc
This is all fair comment.
What you can’t do, is extend that to blaming anyone else for Vipotnik being consistently a couple of seconds behind play and invariably getting physically dominated by centre backs. Luke Williams didn’t ask him for that no matter how much people will pretend otherwise.
It’s in the past and it doesn’t matter if he carries on the form he’s in at the moment, but let’s not try to absolve him of the elements he was responsible for. Let’s just hope he has a much better season. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:21 - Sep 7 with 1650 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 15:54 - Sep 7 by jack247 |
You keep mentioning patience shown to Cullen.
The reality is, we’ve just recruited really badly up front since Piroe. If Yates and Kukharevych hadn’t failed, he’d have been gone. They were around £2m each I think and both were signed to play ahead of him.
If Vipotnik had been decent last season, he’d still have been here, but wouldn’t have started any games up front. He’d more likely have been used as a second striker when we were chasing games, or in midfield.
It’s very hard to see him playing as a centre forward from here on in regardless. |
He is 23 and not fully developed. He has the tools. He has a goals and assists this season. He can shoot and head the ball. He needs to become consistent and more rounded then will be the full package. There is not one Welsh player like this. We do not produce them.
He needs the love that Cullen was shown and will produce much more and extract a Bony rule transfer fee.
Prospects like this need mentoring and care. [Post edited 9 Sep 15:49]
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| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:23 - Sep 7 with 1644 views | RodgerTheDodger |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:14 - Sep 7 by jack247 |
Let’s knock this one on the head as well.
You can blame Luke Williams for the way we set up
You can blame other players for not providing the support Vipotnik/Idah are likely to get from Inoussa, Stamenic, Widdell etc
This is all fair comment.
What you can’t do, is extend that to blaming anyone else for Vipotnik being consistently a couple of seconds behind play and invariably getting physically dominated by centre backs. Luke Williams didn’t ask him for that no matter how much people will pretend otherwise.
It’s in the past and it doesn’t matter if he carries on the form he’s in at the moment, but let’s not try to absolve him of the elements he was responsible for. Let’s just hope he has a much better season. |
Yes you can do that. Tell a player he's got to play a way he doesn't play, and he'll be constantly behind the game.
How good is Vipi? I don't know, I am very interested to find out. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:36 - Sep 7 with 1600 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:23 - Sep 7 by RodgerTheDodger |
Yes you can do that. Tell a player he's got to play a way he doesn't play, and he'll be constantly behind the game.
How good is Vipi? I don't know, I am very interested to find out. |
Not even close. The way Russell Martin played hardly suited Piroe, but he was never a couple of seconds behind his teammates.
It’s not as if Williams’ playing style was quick, intricate or hard to predict either.
Second part, I agree with. He showed flashes last season and is bang in form now. If he can keep that up, we’re in for a good season. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:31 - Sep 7 with 1536 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 16:21 - Sep 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He is 23 and not fully developed. He has the tools. He has a goals and assists this season. He can shoot and head the ball. He needs to become consistent and more rounded then will be the full package. There is not one Welsh player like this. We do not produce them.
He needs the love that Cullen was shown and will produce much more and extract a Bony rule transfer fee.
Prospects like this need mentoring and care. [Post edited 9 Sep 15:49]
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The point I was making was that Cullen hasn’t been mollycoddled. He’s basically still here because others have failed.
In terms of heading, he scored a very well taken headed goal against Watford. It’s the first one he’s scored. I certainly wouldn’t be counting that as a strength. Shooting, yes without a doubt, serious power on either foot.
Not sure why you keep bringing up Wales not producing strikers either. It’s irrelevant. We sign the best players we can within our finances, wherever they come from. Our starting eleven on Saturday will probably have one Welshman (Cabango) in it. Nobody cares | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:34 - Sep 7 with 1521 views | Whiterockin |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:31 - Sep 7 by jack247 |
The point I was making was that Cullen hasn’t been mollycoddled. He’s basically still here because others have failed.
In terms of heading, he scored a very well taken headed goal against Watford. It’s the first one he’s scored. I certainly wouldn’t be counting that as a strength. Shooting, yes without a doubt, serious power on either foot.
Not sure why you keep bringing up Wales not producing strikers either. It’s irrelevant. We sign the best players we can within our finances, wherever they come from. Our starting eleven on Saturday will probably have one Welshman (Cabango) in it. Nobody cares |
I think Cullens strength is his runs into the box off the ball and arriving late. |  | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:42 - Sep 7 with 1493 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:34 - Sep 7 by Whiterockin |
I think Cullens strength is his runs into the box off the ball and arriving late. |
Sorry. Second paragraph was about Vipotnik. Didn’t make it clear
Cullens strength is his vision, both on and off the ball, allowing him to thread players through from deep and yes, arrive in the box unmarked or lose his marker. He’s also pretty composed in the area.
His weaknesses are his stature and lack of pace. He also doesn’t really have a trick to skin defenders and open up space in the way a Paterson or a Eom does. | | | |
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| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:47 - Sep 7 with 1474 views | Whiterockin |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 17:42 - Sep 7 by jack247 |
Sorry. Second paragraph was about Vipotnik. Didn’t make it clear
Cullens strength is his vision, both on and off the ball, allowing him to thread players through from deep and yes, arrive in the box unmarked or lose his marker. He’s also pretty composed in the area.
His weaknesses are his stature and lack of pace. He also doesn’t really have a trick to skin defenders and open up space in the way a Paterson or a Eom does. |
He can also take a mean free kick, but seldom gets the opportunity. But a number 9 he certainly is not. Bellamy knows exactly where to play him and how to get the best out of him. That's why he is a current Welsh international. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 22:12 - Sep 7 with 1326 views | sons_of_omri |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 08:36 - Sep 7 by jack247 |
I agree with Dr Ws suggestion of a truce on this because it makes sense. It’s better for everyone of a Vipotnik does well, just some believe he will, others believe he won’t.
But this is incredibly naive, even by your standards. Lone strikers ‘putting themselves about’ isn’t an outdated 90s phenomenon. It literally means competing physically with centre backs. Not being outmuscled, getting on the end of chances and creating a platform for teammates to play in dangerous areas.
Why do you think we just spent big on Adam Idah?
Vipotnik had a great week from Watford to Sheffield Wednesday. No arguing there at all. If he keeps playing to that level, I’ll give him all the credit for turning it around, as I’m sure his other critics will.
If he doesn’t, you’ll find someone else to blame. |
Naïveté- coming from you that’s hilarious. You just won’t accept the guy has - until now - received barely any service. Now he’s getting it and scoring almost every game instead of just saying “well done” and appreciating his goals habe earned us 4 points and a crack at Forest your jury is still out.
He could have kicked the living shit out of teams entire back four but unless Grimes deigned to pass the ball forwards he wasn’t going to score was he.
You're the one with the problem - too proud to admit you could be wrong. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 07:28 - Sep 8 with 1176 views | Dr_Winston |
Cullen managed just three assists in 45 games last season so his vision ain't up to all that either.
It would appear that a lot of people have allowed themselves to be wowed by his little purple patch at the end of the last year and became convinced that he's a much better player than he actually is instead of basing their opinions on what we've seen from him over the last five years. The three goals in 25 games after that spell are very much the norm from him rather than the exception.
Until that point I'd cheerfully wager that most people would have been happy to see him sold or released like they are with Oli Cooper. Another "one of our own" who has simply not been up to it for several years to anyone thinking clearly. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Vipi scoring 90th min on 08:33 - Sep 8 with 1108 views | Fireboy2 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 07:28 - Sep 8 by Dr_Winston |
Cullen managed just three assists in 45 games last season so his vision ain't up to all that either.
It would appear that a lot of people have allowed themselves to be wowed by his little purple patch at the end of the last year and became convinced that he's a much better player than he actually is instead of basing their opinions on what we've seen from him over the last five years. The three goals in 25 games after that spell are very much the norm from him rather than the exception.
Until that point I'd cheerfully wager that most people would have been happy to see him sold or released like they are with Oli Cooper. Another "one of our own" who has simply not been up to it for several years to anyone thinking clearly. |
Doc this is about vip, not cullen. |  | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 08:36 - Sep 8 with 1106 views | Dr_Winston |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 08:33 - Sep 8 by Fireboy2 |
Doc this is about vip, not cullen. |
Exactly.
So when you lay out in black and white just how "not up to the job" that Cullen is as I just have, it becomes even clearer that picking him ahead of Vip at any point is Sheehan's biggest, maybe only mistake so far. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:18 - Sep 8 with 1075 views | Fireboy2 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 08:36 - Sep 8 by Dr_Winston |
Exactly.
So when you lay out in black and white just how "not up to the job" that Cullen is as I just have, it becomes even clearer that picking him ahead of Vip at any point is Sheehan's biggest, maybe only mistake so far. |
I am not going to bother mate.
I have my opinion and you have yours, let's leave it there.
If vip keeps up his scoring form then great, if cullen contributes from wherever he plays then great.
As long as swansea do well then I am happy. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:33 - Sep 8 with 1044 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 22:12 - Sep 7 by sons_of_omri |
Naïveté- coming from you that’s hilarious. You just won’t accept the guy has - until now - received barely any service. Now he’s getting it and scoring almost every game instead of just saying “well done” and appreciating his goals habe earned us 4 points and a crack at Forest your jury is still out.
He could have kicked the living shit out of teams entire back four but unless Grimes deigned to pass the ball forwards he wasn’t going to score was he.
You're the one with the problem - too proud to admit you could be wrong. |
I’ve absolutely acknowledged that plenty of times. One thing we agreed on last week was that he’d get more service with Stanenic and Inoussa in the team.
I’ve also said he’s been much better and deserves the shirt now (ahead of Idah, not just Cullen) and that he’s a weapon when he gets the ball played for him to run onto and shoot.
There’s no point repeating those points and saying I won’t admit to any of them because I agree with all of it.
Where we disagree is you believe that the striker doesn’t have a part to play in the chances that are created for him and that ‘putting himself about’ means playing like an Allardyce type thug.
If you can’t understand that the right movement helps teammates create chances for you and that being a couple of seconds behind play is the players issue, then I’m at a loss as to whether you’re bullish or just limited.
Look at the Sheffield Wednesday game. First half, very little from him, played like he did most of last season. Second half, made intelligent, aggressive runs, put himself about physically and pretty much dominated. A goal, an assist and easily the best player on the pitch.
Absolutely well done for that and I hope it continues. Yes, jury is still out because we’re talking about two good games and a league cup game where he scored a wonder goal. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:37 - Sep 8 with 1034 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 07:28 - Sep 8 by Dr_Winston |
Cullen managed just three assists in 45 games last season so his vision ain't up to all that either.
It would appear that a lot of people have allowed themselves to be wowed by his little purple patch at the end of the last year and became convinced that he's a much better player than he actually is instead of basing their opinions on what we've seen from him over the last five years. The three goals in 25 games after that spell are very much the norm from him rather than the exception.
Until that point I'd cheerfully wager that most people would have been happy to see him sold or released like they are with Oli Cooper. Another "one of our own" who has simply not been up to it for several years to anyone thinking clearly. |
I’d have been happy to see Cullen sold two years ago had Yates and Kukharevych been up to scratch.
Edit - and to be fair - you’re not going to get many assists when you’re the top scorer yourself, the main striker only scores seven times and the next highest scorer is a centre back when you don’t take corners. [Post edited 8 Sep 9:53]
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| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:47 - Sep 8 with 1015 views | Fireboy2 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:33 - Sep 8 by jack247 |
I’ve absolutely acknowledged that plenty of times. One thing we agreed on last week was that he’d get more service with Stanenic and Inoussa in the team.
I’ve also said he’s been much better and deserves the shirt now (ahead of Idah, not just Cullen) and that he’s a weapon when he gets the ball played for him to run onto and shoot.
There’s no point repeating those points and saying I won’t admit to any of them because I agree with all of it.
Where we disagree is you believe that the striker doesn’t have a part to play in the chances that are created for him and that ‘putting himself about’ means playing like an Allardyce type thug.
If you can’t understand that the right movement helps teammates create chances for you and that being a couple of seconds behind play is the players issue, then I’m at a loss as to whether you’re bullish or just limited.
Look at the Sheffield Wednesday game. First half, very little from him, played like he did most of last season. Second half, made intelligent, aggressive runs, put himself about physically and pretty much dominated. A goal, an assist and easily the best player on the pitch.
Absolutely well done for that and I hope it continues. Yes, jury is still out because we’re talking about two good games and a league cup game where he scored a wonder goal. |
A great humble post 👍 | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:27 - Sep 9 with 527 views | Whiterockin |
Played 86 minutes in their 3-0 loss to Switzerland, at least he should come back uninjured. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:52 - Sep 9 with 484 views | Fireboy2 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:27 - Sep 9 by Whiterockin |
Played 86 minutes in their 3-0 loss to Switzerland, at least he should come back uninjured. |
Well idah only got about 15 minutes in ROI last game, they play tonight against Armenia, which is a fair distance to travel.
I suspect that vip will start on Saturday with idah coming on at around the 60 min mark. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:58 - Sep 9 with 466 views | Whiterockin |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:52 - Sep 9 by Fireboy2 |
Well idah only got about 15 minutes in ROI last game, they play tonight against Armenia, which is a fair distance to travel.
I suspect that vip will start on Saturday with idah coming on at around the 60 min mark. |
Exactly how I see it for Saturday. It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out in the coming weeks. I can't see the investment we made in Idah being a bench warmer. But if Vipotnik is scoring he can't be dropped. Nice to have options for a change. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:05 - Sep 9 with 444 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 09:58 - Sep 9 by Whiterockin |
Exactly how I see it for Saturday. It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out in the coming weeks. I can't see the investment we made in Idah being a bench warmer. But if Vipotnik is scoring he can't be dropped. Nice to have options for a change. |
I think he’s almost guaranteed to start Saturday and I’d expect Idah to start against Forest. If Vipotnik plays like he did second half last week, he’ll start at Birmingham as well. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:29 - Sep 9 with 412 views | Whiterockin |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:05 - Sep 9 by jack247 |
I think he’s almost guaranteed to start Saturday and I’d expect Idah to start against Forest. If Vipotnik plays like he did second half last week, he’ll start at Birmingham as well. |
All ifs at the moment we haven't seen Idah play. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:33 - Sep 9 with 397 views | Fireboy2 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:29 - Sep 9 by Whiterockin |
All ifs at the moment we haven't seen Idah play. |
Can watch him tonight v armenia. | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:37 - Sep 9 with 389 views | jack247 |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:29 - Sep 9 by Whiterockin |
All ifs at the moment we haven't seen Idah play. |
No, but I’d be surprised if Sheehan either
Threw him in at the deep end with almost no training with his new teammates
Didn’t take the opportunity to start him a few days later in a less important game | | | |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:54 - Sep 9 with 364 views | Whiterockin |
| Vipi scoring 90th min on 10:37 - Sep 9 by jack247 |
No, but I’d be surprised if Sheehan either
Threw him in at the deep end with almost no training with his new teammates
Didn’t take the opportunity to start him a few days later in a less important game |
Who are you talking about? | | | |
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