| listening to fans 11:54 - Oct 8 with 7433 views | lionboy |
hello all,
I think we could agree that Chris Ramsey is not the most arrogant of managers, but if I were a new manager struggling to find my feet, then I would use every resource I could to help me solve problems or achieve success, and one of those resources would surely be the fans, especially if they were all saying the same thing. Now I know fans can be divided in their opinions of players, but surely when all fans with one voice are screeching that the team can be instantly improved with the removal of a certain player, then surely it makes sense to listen. So why Mr Ramsey's continuing selection of Karl Henry ? Is it evidence that Ramsey has no respect for the fans' opinions? or that he is unaware of what fans think? or that he thinks that nothing needs to be improved at all? or that he has listened and had a close look at Henry's performances, and genuinely thinks he's ok ? or does he believe that dropping Henry would be a sign of weakness under pressure and therefore undermine his position as boss as a whole? I look forward to your opinions |  | | |  |
| listening to fans on 11:59 - Oct 8 with 5445 views | TacticalR |
We need an interactive mobile Karl Henry app that operates in the ground. If a certain number of votes are reached during a match then Karl Henry will automatically be hooked. |  |
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| listening to fans on 12:07 - Oct 8 with 5417 views | Dorse |
| listening to fans on 11:59 - Oct 8 by TacticalR |
We need an interactive mobile Karl Henry app that operates in the ground. If a certain number of votes are reached during a match then Karl Henry will automatically be hooked. |
Setting the new World Record, Karl Henry becomes the first man ever to be subbed as he takes the field. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| listening to fans on 12:07 - Oct 8 with 5416 views | PinnerPaul |
Doesn't work though does it.
Just look at at any "What I think the team should be...." threads before each match.
You get 20 different teams on just that one thread alone.
For every person who think Green a liability, there are others who think he is best GK in the div.
Someone posted that Ned "had a good game" last week!
Don't think we can be trusted tbh!  | | | |
| listening to fans on 12:31 - Oct 8 with 5371 views | daveB |
Henry is just the latest in a long line of players who us fans think dropping will be a solution to our problems. It was Sandro not long ago and now he's the second coming., I think Henry has been poor this season but so has Onouha and I don't see many calls for him to be dropped.
Ramsey should do what he thinks is best so if he succeeds he can take the credit, if he fails it's only him who will get the sack. We get it right sometimes but If managers listened to us then Bobby Zamora would have been given a free transfer months before Wembley and Clint Hill & Shaun Derry would have never kicked a ball for us as they were old and shit |  | | |
| listening to fans on 12:46 - Oct 8 with 5344 views | WestbourneR |
Onouha has been poor but at least he is trying. Henry is a passenger. It's unforgivable. |  |
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| listening to fans on 12:54 - Oct 8 with 5314 views | kingsburyR |
I'd drop Green for what it is worth. |  |
| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| listening to fans on 12:56 - Oct 8 with 5306 views | Bluce_Ree |
| listening to fans on 12:54 - Oct 8 by kingsburyR |
I'd drop Green for what it is worth. |
It's worth NOTHING. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| listening to fans on 13:26 - Oct 8 with 5251 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| listening to fans on 12:31 - Oct 8 by daveB |
Henry is just the latest in a long line of players who us fans think dropping will be a solution to our problems. It was Sandro not long ago and now he's the second coming., I think Henry has been poor this season but so has Onouha and I don't see many calls for him to be dropped.
Ramsey should do what he thinks is best so if he succeeds he can take the credit, if he fails it's only him who will get the sack. We get it right sometimes but If managers listened to us then Bobby Zamora would have been given a free transfer months before Wembley and Clint Hill & Shaun Derry would have never kicked a ball for us as they were old and shit |
I don't understand why Ned hasn't been dropped to be honest. It is probably because he is captain, thus compounding a bad decision to make him that in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I like Ned but ha has been poor so far this season imo. |  | | |
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| listening to fans on 14:04 - Oct 8 with 5178 views | WilloW4 |
| listening to fans on 12:46 - Oct 8 by WestbourneR |
Onouha has been poor but at least he is trying. Henry is a passenger. It's unforgivable. |
You're right mate...Onouha is trying, very, very trying.. Overrated in my humble. |  | | |
| listening to fans on 14:04 - Oct 8 with 5178 views | lionboy |
my point is not that he should be dropped just because the fans say so - I agree with all the points about different opinions - no my point is this - if I were a new manager and things were going wrong I would think to myself - hey wait a minute I wonder why everyone is telling me to drop henry? and I would watch his game especially carefully. I was really wondering do you think Ramsey is doing this? or do you think that he thinks- what do fans know anyway they haven't got a clue about the game ?? | | | |
| listening to fans on 14:26 - Oct 8 with 5129 views | Discodroids |
Karl Henry?, just a benign parasitic twin hanging from Ramsey's 3rd and 4th rib.
awakens like kuato from 'Total recall', at 2.55pm every saturday afternoon underneath Ramsey's Sports direct tracksuit top.
Championship Plankton. |  |
| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| listening to fans on 14:28 - Oct 8 with 5115 views | Match82 |
If any manager made team selections solely to appease the fans then they should be sacked immediately.
Ramsey sees something in Henry. Not sure what. But what the fans think about it shouldn't be a part of his decision criteria |  | | |
| listening to fans on 14:31 - Oct 8 with 5102 views | lionboy |
| listening to fans on 14:28 - Oct 8 by Match82 |
If any manager made team selections solely to appease the fans then they should be sacked immediately.
Ramsey sees something in Henry. Not sure what. But what the fans think about it shouldn't be a part of his decision criteria |
no not decision criteria, but just another pair of eyes and ears possibly? to help in his tough job | | | |
| listening to fans on 14:36 - Oct 8 with 5091 views | Antti_Heinola |
| listening to fans on 13:26 - Oct 8 by CroydonCaptJack |
I don't understand why Ned hasn't been dropped to be honest. It is probably because he is captain, thus compounding a bad decision to make him that in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I like Ned but ha has been poor so far this season imo. |
Well there hasn't been much of an option really, at least until Angella arrived. And I thought Ned did quite well early on.
Ned's not a bad player, but at the moment we don't defend effectively as a team. You can drop whoever you want from the defence and play whoever else you want from our squad - it won't make a blind bit of difference.
Only about 3 weeks ago people were saying the back 4 should keep playing together to get an understanding. Now people are saying they can't understand why half the back 4 hasn't been dropped. |  |
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| listening to fans on 14:36 - Oct 8 with 5091 views | PinnerPaul |
| listening to fans on 14:31 - Oct 8 by lionboy |
no not decision criteria, but just another pair of eyes and ears possibly? to help in his tough job |
That what he has Les and the other coaches at the club for? | | | |
| listening to fans on 14:42 - Oct 8 with 5071 views | derbyhoop |
If the club listened to the fans ....
We'd have a new manager every 5 games
We'd need 20 players per match so that we could haul off those we don't think are performing and replace them with somebody, who's just as likely to be out injured
We'd change formation every other game.
We'd have a first team squad of 50, none of whom would be paid the going rate.
We'd probably have an outside chance of being successful in FIFA2015
The manager, who is far better qualified than any fan, sees the players every day in training. He knows who is fit and who might be carrying an injury. He sets up the team to play in a certain way, which may vary according to the opposition; and many of the training sessions will have been geared towards a specific formation and team selection. What he cannot do is guarantee that all the players will perform to their best at all times. Nor can he prevent players from forgetting instructions they've had in the time leading up to the game. Nor can he legislate for players losing concentration or being caught out of position, i.e. individual mistakes. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| listening to fans on 14:48 - Oct 8 with 5055 views | isawqpratwcity |
| listening to fans on 14:42 - Oct 8 by derbyhoop |
If the club listened to the fans ....
We'd have a new manager every 5 games
We'd need 20 players per match so that we could haul off those we don't think are performing and replace them with somebody, who's just as likely to be out injured
We'd change formation every other game.
We'd have a first team squad of 50, none of whom would be paid the going rate.
We'd probably have an outside chance of being successful in FIFA2015
The manager, who is far better qualified than any fan, sees the players every day in training. He knows who is fit and who might be carrying an injury. He sets up the team to play in a certain way, which may vary according to the opposition; and many of the training sessions will have been geared towards a specific formation and team selection. What he cannot do is guarantee that all the players will perform to their best at all times. Nor can he prevent players from forgetting instructions they've had in the time leading up to the game. Nor can he legislate for players losing concentration or being caught out of position, i.e. individual mistakes. |
Absolutely.
The manager doesn't have to explain himself, and it is the right of every fan to make up their own mind what sort of a job they think he is doing and to withdraw their support for the team and/or manager at whatever point they consider appropriate. |  |
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| listening to fans on 14:54 - Oct 8 with 5038 views | Neil_SI |
The reason Karl Henry hasn't been dropped is because Ramsey has some integrity about him, as Henry was professional last season, did a good job on the pitch when asked, and trained hard when he wasn't in the team.
That goes a long way with staff, who know they can rely on individuals even when times are tough, and we had many players last season who effectively like many before them, downed tools and took the piss. Henry didn't. And he never complained when he was dropped after Joey Barton returned either, he just got on with his job and still gave everything he had in training.
Therefore, Ramsey has afforded the benefit of the doubt to Henry and shown that despite a poor bout of form, he's not just going to ditch him, he's going to give him an opportunity and reward him for the service he's put in at the club. I like and respect that a lot, and that kind of conduct goes a long way with the players overall, and sets a standard and makes everybody understand that if they want to be in that team, they've got to earn the right, and then earn the right to be afforded some time if form dips.
It's easy for us to label Henry as a passenger or as a rubbish player, but despite that, you can't argue that he doesn't give 100% for the cause, hides or shirks his responsibilities.
I'm absolutely fine with Henry being in the side and find some of the criticism of him extremely over the top and harsh, especially in comparison to so many players we've seen at Rangers over the years, even if the current system doesn't suit his strengths.
Over time, I do believe Ramsey will replace Henry at some point, but the time hasn't been right to do so yet. Once the rest of the players prove themselves as consistently reliable and consistently professional in their attitude, you'll see changes.
On another note from the original post, I doubt Ramsey is hugely aware of fan opinion, and he has to make his own mind up and not worry about what the overall majority is saying some of the time, and the following response about team line ups and how different fans opinions are week to week on those and individual players proves that.
At the end of the day — we pay the professionals to make decisions based on what they're trying to achieve in terms of the philosophy and culture of the club, and what they see day in and day out on the training pitch. I've not really seen much that makes me frustrated with the current approach from Ramsey - if the club themselves don't like it or disagree with him, they will simply remove him and find someone else in the end. [Post edited 8 Oct 2015 14:56]
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| listening to fans on 14:58 - Oct 8 with 5022 views | ngbqpr |
As a fanbase, we have a glorious tradition of scapegoating going back decades. Many are those who either should never have been scapegoats in the first place, or maybe had iffy starts but worked through them to become valuable players to the club. I'm sure with a bit of effort we could come up with an 'unmerited scapegoats' XI...I'm going for an exciting 433 formation, just need a bit of help with the defence:
GK - ?
RB - David Bardsley
CBs - ??
LB - ?
Mid: Simon Barker / Don Masson / Mick Leach
Upfront: Tony Sealy / Les Ferdinand / Paul Furlong |  |
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| listening to fans on 15:32 - Oct 8 with 4956 views | daveB |
| listening to fans on 14:58 - Oct 8 by ngbqpr |
As a fanbase, we have a glorious tradition of scapegoating going back decades. Many are those who either should never have been scapegoats in the first place, or maybe had iffy starts but worked through them to become valuable players to the club. I'm sure with a bit of effort we could come up with an 'unmerited scapegoats' XI...I'm going for an exciting 433 formation, just need a bit of help with the defence:
GK - ?
RB - David Bardsley
CBs - ??
LB - ?
Mid: Simon Barker / Don Masson / Mick Leach
Upfront: Tony Sealy / Les Ferdinand / Paul Furlong |
My 'unmerited scapegoats' XI
gk Jan Stejskal (in his first season)
RB - David Bardsley
LB - Clint Hill
CB - Steve Palmer
CB - Matthew Ros
Mid - Shaun Derry
Mid- Mike Fillery
Mid - Simon Barker
For - Les Ferdinand
For - Paul Furlong
For - Heider Helguson
Manager - Ian Holloway [Post edited 8 Oct 2015 15:39]
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| listening to fans on 15:38 - Oct 8 with 4938 views | DannyPaddox |
| listening to fans on 11:59 - Oct 8 by TacticalR |
We need an interactive mobile Karl Henry app that operates in the ground. If a certain number of votes are reached during a match then Karl Henry will automatically be hooked. |
To be known as the Karl Henry Remote Application. In short: KHRAP! |  | | |
| listening to fans on 15:44 - Oct 8 with 4930 views | daveB |
followed by my 'players fans said were a good signing but turned out to be shit for QPR although they did ok elsewhere XI'
GK - Julio Cesar
RB Jose Bosingwa (Yes many said he was a good signing)
LB BAE
CB Chris Samba
CB I'm sure someone said Bob Malcolm would be good
MID Parejo
MID Diakite
MID Sandro
MID Junior Toilett (captain)
FOR Leon Knight
FOR Leon Best
Manager Mark Hughes | | | |
| listening to fans on 16:05 - Oct 8 with 4905 views | PinnerPaul |
| listening to fans on 15:44 - Oct 8 by daveB |
followed by my 'players fans said were a good signing but turned out to be shit for QPR although they did ok elsewhere XI'
GK - Julio Cesar
RB Jose Bosingwa (Yes many said he was a good signing)
LB BAE
CB Chris Samba
CB I'm sure someone said Bob Malcolm would be good
MID Parejo
MID Diakite
MID Sandro
MID Junior Toilett (captain)
FOR Leon Knight
FOR Leon Best
Manager Mark Hughes |
You can add Park & Granero to that midfield using your criteria I would say. | | | |
| listening to fans on 20:05 - Oct 8 with 4777 views | Monkey_Roots |
| listening to fans on 16:05 - Oct 8 by PinnerPaul |
You can add Park & Granero to that midfield using your criteria I would say. |
And Puncheon I reckon... |  | | |
| listening to fans on 20:06 - Oct 8 with 4773 views | Esgaroth |
| listening to fans on 15:44 - Oct 8 by daveB |
followed by my 'players fans said were a good signing but turned out to be shit for QPR although they did ok elsewhere XI'
GK - Julio Cesar
RB Jose Bosingwa (Yes many said he was a good signing)
LB BAE
CB Chris Samba
CB I'm sure someone said Bob Malcolm would be good
MID Parejo
MID Diakite
MID Sandro
MID Junior Toilett (captain)
FOR Leon Knight
FOR Leon Best
Manager Mark Hughes |
And why pray tell does Ned Zelic not make the squad hmmmmmm???? |  |
| Been here since 1984. Now THAT is what you call punishment |
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