| New shares 19:46 - Mar 7 with 33294 views | TTNYear |
Apparently new/more shares are being issued from the club... this needs discussing. |  |
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| New shares on 22:20 - Mar 11 with 2527 views | RAFCBLUE |
This is an amazing about turn from the club.
The stance on 26th February when documents were issued to shareholders was "can I remind you of the confidential nature of the information in these documents and the Board thanks you for not sharing them publicly"
Today a public statement!
The special thing about an EGM is that the wording of the resolution is sent to the shareholders with a note about its importance.
The theory is that the board has a better knowledge of the situation, and the resolution is in effect their ideal solution, but it may not be in the interests of individual shareholders.
Better knowledge!
They even used my word "unfettered".
Having seen bury fc quite comfortably and royally f*ck up over holding those who owned and ran their club to account to do the same it cannot ever happen here.
I'm disappointed that the Board have now resorted to propaganda to justify the previously secret EGM.
I'm disappointed that they actually believe their own hyperbole.
"The Board wishes to state that there are no plans for an immediate sale, although in the current football environment there is a requirement to keep an open mind to incoming investment opportunities. Essentially the Board seeks room to manoeuvre in the event that it feels it is able to identify an interested party whose intentions for the Club are aligned with its best interests. "
The right thing to do is to drop this EGM and come back to shareholders with proper resolutions that reflect the running of the club.
Do not insult the intelligence of so many Dale fans
If you identify a party who you think is a good fit to take this club forward, do not do that change by stealth but properly present it to us. |  |
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| New shares on 22:20 - Mar 11 with 2527 views | TalkingSutty |
| New shares on 22:01 - Mar 11 by tony_roch975 |
all true and also all chance - we've had half a dozen top flight cup ties in 6 years (with their TV consequentials) but we can't budget to have another in the next decade. We've sold Dawson & Matheson but I couldn't name another youth team starlet worth £1M. The sale of Cannon etc was (rightly) seen by many fans as a bad football decision forced by financial problems - hardly something to plan to do every year. So thankfully this season will write off the debts from the last but no guarantees that will continue - in fact the opposite. The new pitch and ticket system won't come cheap, couple of hundred thousand under threat from Coronavirus and, as you say, the Dawson money won't all arrive till 2022.
So the cupboard isn't bare but relying on winning jackpots gets you down the Kenny Sansom/Paul Merson routes. Winning jackpots should be for new bonus initiatives - rebuild a stand etc not for the bread & butter financing of the club. |
The club model has always been to identify players, sign them and sell them on for a profit, we’ve been doing that for decades. You have to speculate to accumulate though and not just rely on players from the youth team... a bit of mix and match. It didn’t just happen when Hill arrived, we have always made a decent profit by utilising this tried and trusted method, Steve Parkin excelled at it. |  | | |
| New shares on 22:20 - Mar 11 with 2525 views | James1980 |
How about a season ticket that combines share ownership?
A number available in each stand at a premium above the standard adult price for each stand. Perhaps bronze, silver and gold. Bronze plus 1/3, Silver 2/3 Gold plus 1 of the season ticket price. |  |
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| New shares on 22:22 - Mar 11 with 2524 views | judd |
| New shares on 22:17 - Mar 11 by tony_roch975 |
I stand rightly corrected - (arf) that's a lie, I'm sat down! |
As ever.
A business model that has proven sustainable, perhaps needing some luck (Come on guys, Manu & Newcastle in the same season cannot be planned), loads of jam on the bread and butter of Rochdale's mundane existence?
Credit, as ever, to those who serve unpaid on the board, does this successful model really need such radical change? |  |
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| New shares on 22:23 - Mar 11 with 2519 views | TalkingSutty |
| New shares on 22:05 - Mar 11 by Dorislove |
The Dawson money comes sept 20 and sept 21 according to the birmingham paper. |
I was told the same thing | | | |
| New shares on 22:24 - Mar 11 with 2506 views | Dorislove |
| New shares on 21:58 - Mar 11 by judd |
With regards the new pitch, I would expect that cashflow in paying for it will not be a lump sum, rather spread out to see if the pitch proved itself. Just a guess but reading between the lines of what was said at the forum.
On another matter, I think any restriction on shareholder rights is dangerous and far too risky to allow. I don't think it is aimed at Doris & Lama Bonkers but at bigger shareholders.
I know the statement mentions a board of directors with many years experience running the club. No problem with those 2 gentlemen. We also had a myriad of changes throughout the club and at all levels because new blood has deemed previous management as not good enough, it would appear.
We have a tremendous youth set up, properly managed and funded of course.
We own the ground, car park and pub, all of which took time to regain.
I doubt that ANY fan thinks that ANY board member is seeking to profiteer from this share issue, and I would hope that fans airing concerns with regards the future ownership model are taken as genuine and not as those thoughts of a negative trouble causer.
Over to you... |
I doubt that ANY fan thinks that ANY board member is seeking to profiteer from this share issue, and I would hope that fans airing concerns with regards the future ownership model are taken as genuine and not as those thoughts of a negative trouble causer.
Good point and i certainly dont believe ANY board member will do anything knowingly to harm the club ,I just dont believe after recent events at other clubs this is the right way to go .The shareholding to me is the biggest issue at the present and until the end of june (too late for the EGM) we will not know who owns what . |  | | |
| New shares on 22:26 - Mar 11 with 2501 views | RAFCBLUE |
| New shares on 17:09 - Mar 11 by Daley_Lama |
“If authorisation is granted at the EGM, the Club will look to set the share price at a minimum of £6.”
“Will look to” is not a legal guarantee and reads as after the EGM i.e. not a condition of the resolution. [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 17:10]
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It is not a legal guarantee to have to get £6.
It is also not required that whatever the number is proposed to come back to all shareholders for approval until 2025. | |
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| New shares on 22:30 - Mar 11 with 2485 views | tony_roch975 |
| New shares on 22:05 - Mar 11 by Dorislove |
The Dawson money comes sept 20 and sept 21 according to the birmingham paper. |
Sept 21 is in the 21/22 financial year which will be appear in the Spring 2022 accounts. | |
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| New shares on 22:31 - Mar 11 with 2478 views | Dorislove |
| New shares on 22:30 - Mar 11 by tony_roch975 |
Sept 21 is in the 21/22 financial year which will be appear in the Spring 2022 accounts. |
I thought the conversation was about cash flow not company accounts.
Just read back you were talking about money landing in RAFC bank account. [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 22:34]
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| New shares on 22:36 - Mar 11 with 2460 views | James1980 |
What is the money raised going to be used for?
Is the likely return on investment going to be worth it? | |
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| New shares on 22:38 - Mar 11 with 2452 views | RAFCBLUE |
And one other thing:
The directors may call general meetings when they wish (CA 2006, sec302) and must call a meeting of members holding one-tenth of the voting shares or one-tenth of the voting rights request one.
So, are there Dale fans who between them can amass 50,296 shares? The Trust have over 12,000 so they could lead that exercise, for the good of all fans not just those in the Trust.
If so,
(1) Call a general meeting of members
(2) Propose a range of far reaching ordinary resolutions that can be debated.
(3) See if the current Board would vote that down either collectively, individual, by resolution or the whole thing.
If Chris Dunphy and The Trust teamed up, you would not need anyone else to do that. Chris Dunphy could actually call one on his own shareholding alone.
All those doing that would need to do is email the Company Secretary (John Smallwood) with the requisite number of proposing shareholders and the resolutions.
Activist shareholders are important. They can make a very positive impact. [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 22:41]
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| New shares on 22:38 - Mar 11 with 2450 views | D_Alien |
| New shares on 22:11 - Mar 11 by tony_roch975 |
Yes, that's one of my routes (attract investment) but keeps the shares 'in the family'. So I'll commit here to buy my (pre-emption) proportion (60 shares @ £6). That leaves just another 696983 shares @ £6 for folk to agree to buy .. over to you. |
You're making a couple of assumptions there:
That shares should be priced at £6
That c.700k shares should be made available
Take what the board have proposed for the EGM, rip it up and start again (think there's a song in there somewhere) |  |
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| New shares on 22:38 - Mar 11 with 2445 views | fitzochris |
| New shares on 22:36 - Mar 11 by James1980 |
What is the money raised going to be used for?
Is the likely return on investment going to be worth it? |
It’s likely to be used to build a new training complex.
Do we need one? Yes.
Is it worth giving a non-Dale fan a stake in the club? That’s the debate. |  |
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| New shares on 22:39 - Mar 11 with 2443 views | tony_roch975 |
| New shares on 22:36 - Mar 11 by James1980 |
What is the money raised going to be used for?
Is the likely return on investment going to be worth it? |
another great question for the Trust to pose at the meeting (I liked the Season Ticket /share ownership idea too) | |
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| New shares on 01:53 - Mar 12 with 2319 views | James1980 |
I suppose a concern would be what if the money raised isn't enough to fund building/buying the new training facility in its entirety. If that were the case would the board seek to use the cash reserves or borrow whether it be from the bank or the new investor(s) | |
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| New shares on 06:17 - Mar 12 with 2277 views | RAFCBLUE |
| New shares on 01:53 - Mar 12 by James1980 |
I suppose a concern would be what if the money raised isn't enough to fund building/buying the new training facility in its entirety. If that were the case would the board seek to use the cash reserves or borrow whether it be from the bank or the new investor(s) |
bury fans were sold the dream of Championship football and a new ground by SD1 so he could gain control of their club.
Our shareholders have to weigh up giving up preemption rights until 2025 vs the resolutions on the table.
There is no resolution that promises to deliver or even think about delivering a training ground.
Beware the Trojan horse. | |
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| New shares on 06:40 - Mar 12 with 2261 views | James1980 |
| New shares on 06:17 - Mar 12 by RAFCBLUE |
bury fans were sold the dream of Championship football and a new ground by SD1 so he could gain control of their club.
Our shareholders have to weigh up giving up preemption rights until 2025 vs the resolutions on the table.
There is no resolution that promises to deliver or even think about delivering a training ground.
Beware the Trojan horse. |
Am I right in thinking a site has been found for the training facility? Would some fears be allayed if there was a guarantee the cash will be used for that purpose? | |
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| New shares on 06:46 - Mar 12 with 2253 views | RAFCBLUE |
| New shares on 06:40 - Mar 12 by James1980 |
Am I right in thinking a site has been found for the training facility? Would some fears be allayed if there was a guarantee the cash will be used for that purpose? |
The forum said sites are being identified.
No guarantees have been given.
I would not personally given up my shareholder rights.
RAFC has been searching for training facilities since it was formed.
We have become a solvent league 1 club without our own facilities.
To compare us to bury - why do the Board not just approach Man City regarding the now empty Carrington site?
It’s simple, we don’t need it and can’t afford the running costs of it. | |
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| New shares on 07:14 - Mar 12 with 2219 views | RAFCBLUE |
| New shares on 22:38 - Mar 11 by fitzochris |
It’s likely to be used to build a new training complex.
Do we need one? Yes.
Is it worth giving a non-Dale fan a stake in the club? That’s the debate. |
I’m surprised if we need a permanent one that much that the Board have not leased Carrington.
£400k per annum; £1,100 a day.
They haven’t done that because they know the economics does stack up.
The investment required vs the payback period doesn’t work.
If the Board ever did suggest it asking them to show the payback period when facilities can be rented at lower risk and lower cash outflow would undermine their financial argument for this investment.
£400k of cash a year cannot be found; but millions are sought to deliver this pipe dream.
If they think it works they should present the business case for it. | |
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| New shares on 07:23 - Mar 12 with 2209 views | fitzochris |
We need our own training facility. Every manager and player I’ve ever spoken to who has represented our club has said the same. I’m not going to debate that. We need one.
What I will debate is how we go about getting one. I’ve said on another thread, I’d need some convincing as to why anybody without Rochdale AFC in their blood would invest in us for football reasons. A Dale fan is the only person who wouldn’t expect a return on their investment other than progress on the pitch - and that would be marginal, given the sum we are talking here.
So again, what’s in it for anybody else that a bit of sponsorship wouldn’t provide for?
I’m not knocking anything yet, by the way, but I want to be convinced.
We’ve seen it happen. Clubs let someone in for a quick cash injection. They then begin to borrow from the individual and the debt becomes the club’s. That usually then only goes one way. | |
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| New shares on 08:17 - Mar 12 with 2155 views | kiwidale |
Would having our own our own training complex generate any income or just be an expenditure? are there other north west clubs lacking permanent training facilities, is a ground share at Carrington feasible or spending money upgrading Rochdale cricket club an option. [Post edited 12 Mar 2020 8:18]
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| This is not the time for bickering.
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| New shares on 08:37 - Mar 12 with 2130 views | judd |
| New shares on 08:17 - Mar 12 by kiwidale |
Would having our own our own training complex generate any income or just be an expenditure? are there other north west clubs lacking permanent training facilities, is a ground share at Carrington feasible or spending money upgrading Rochdale cricket club an option. [Post edited 12 Mar 2020 8:18]
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As I understand it, we would be able to upgrade the Academy, meaning additional income, but i am unsure how significant an increase that would be.
From memory, at the forum I think it was suggested that land in Heywood had been identified as suitable for house building and the developer/builder had been asked by RMBC as a condition of planning to construct a 6 or 8 pitch facility with community involvement of its' use.
Taking Fitzo's excellent point about the thought process of a potential Rochdale shareholder, the return on investment can never be measured in fiscal terms, purely on the occasional joy the team delivers, and I would expect an element of comfort knowing you have the right to scrutinise and influence the running of the club. | |
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| New shares on 14:17 - Mar 12 with 1937 views | 49thseason |
| New shares on 08:37 - Mar 12 by judd |
As I understand it, we would be able to upgrade the Academy, meaning additional income, but i am unsure how significant an increase that would be.
From memory, at the forum I think it was suggested that land in Heywood had been identified as suitable for house building and the developer/builder had been asked by RMBC as a condition of planning to construct a 6 or 8 pitch facility with community involvement of its' use.
Taking Fitzo's excellent point about the thought process of a potential Rochdale shareholder, the return on investment can never be measured in fiscal terms, purely on the occasional joy the team delivers, and I would expect an element of comfort knowing you have the right to scrutinise and influence the running of the club. |
The council will be awash with S106 money if all the current local building plans go ahead. S106 is a surcharge on builders who do not include leisure /play facilities in their plans. I think S106 is notionally about £4000 per new house . There is about 1.5Bn in council coffers nationally which is unspent. Building new pitches would be a good use of this money, especially 4G surfaces in a town that has so much rain.
In other news, the council is apparently looking for ideas about how to,spend £25m that the government has allocated for general improvements as part of the levelling up agenda |  | | |
| New shares on 15:00 - Mar 12 with 1893 views | batman |
| New shares on 14:17 - Mar 12 by 49thseason |
The council will be awash with S106 money if all the current local building plans go ahead. S106 is a surcharge on builders who do not include leisure /play facilities in their plans. I think S106 is notionally about £4000 per new house . There is about 1.5Bn in council coffers nationally which is unspent. Building new pitches would be a good use of this money, especially 4G surfaces in a town that has so much rain.
In other news, the council is apparently looking for ideas about how to,spend £25m that the government has allocated for general improvements as part of the levelling up agenda |
Here’s a thought
If the Club ‘needs’ a more up to date training facility then they have at their fingertips a base to start from.
If it was me, and i know its not, i would be approaching Rochdale Cricket Club
to form some form of partnership and start looking at ways to develop Redbrook into a ‘Centre for Sport’ in Rochdale. There is an agreement of some sort at the moment and this could possibly be expanded on.
Grants both from various sources could be available. There is sufficient land for a 4/5G football pitch and the ‘lacrosse pitch’ also could be upgraded to 4/5G. I think there may be enough room for a couple of Hockey pitches as well. All of which could be available outside a normal training schedule for the use of Schools and local clubs etc.
The clubhouse has changing facilities and a kitchen to provide meals for the staff and players. There is space for Team/tactical talks etc both down and upstairs
The Cricket Club would benefit from extra footfall with the extra benefits of more food and bar sales
Whether this would be owned by RCC or RAFC or a Joint Venture i don’t know but i think its worth exploring | | | |
| New shares on 18:07 - Mar 12 with 1765 views | boromat |
Here's an extract from the Bury Review. Thought I'd just leave it here:
6.10 Whether or not this approach of relying on owner funding is sustainable or sensible is outside the scope
of this review, but I would urge the EFL Board and the Clubs to look very closely at this issue. It seems to
me that this is the root cause of most of the problems seen in the Bury FC case. If so, dealing with the
other regulatory issues exposed by this case, but not this one, will not solve the problem. | |
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