| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:27 - May 20 with 6074 views | OldPedro |
Thanks Clive, nothing much to disagree with in this one |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:58 - May 20 with 6031 views | thehat |
Love this Clive - Always great reading and I look forward to listening to the Patreon chat.
My only comment is I thought a tad harsh on Kakay maybe a D would be better suited. I fully agree he is not at Championship level and it's right he has been released but he never hid, has always been available, never had those pathetic calf strains that some of the others always seemed to have especially the previous season and always gave 100% which I guess is all we can ask.
It seems I spent much of Kakay's career defending him to those around me so I might as well finish with that comment on here too. |  | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 10:02 - May 20 with 6013 views | Jeff |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:58 - May 20 by thehat |
Love this Clive - Always great reading and I look forward to listening to the Patreon chat.
My only comment is I thought a tad harsh on Kakay maybe a D would be better suited. I fully agree he is not at Championship level and it's right he has been released but he never hid, has always been available, never had those pathetic calf strains that some of the others always seemed to have especially the previous season and always gave 100% which I guess is all we can ask.
It seems I spent much of Kakay's career defending him to those around me so I might as well finish with that comment on here too. |
for what it's worth, I had Kakay as a D in my rankings (i'm the Andy in the Patreon chat)
My thoughts echoed yours - my crib notes attached:
"Ossie Kakay - D?
Similar to Morgan Fox - he's not very good, but we're not expecting him to be anything other than the backup right back for the 45th best team in the country, and in that capacity, he's sort of ok?
Never gave less than 100%, which sounds like it should be the bare minimum, but as we're well aware sometimes getting anything out of this squad is like getting blood out of a stone. rightly released this summer, but i'll give the benefit of the doubt to a trier, and academy one at that." |  |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 10:30 - May 20 with 5945 views | MrSheen |
JIMMY
DUNNE |  | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:19 - May 20 with 5814 views | TheChef |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 10:02 - May 20 by Jeff |
for what it's worth, I had Kakay as a D in my rankings (i'm the Andy in the Patreon chat)
My thoughts echoed yours - my crib notes attached:
"Ossie Kakay - D?
Similar to Morgan Fox - he's not very good, but we're not expecting him to be anything other than the backup right back for the 45th best team in the country, and in that capacity, he's sort of ok?
Never gave less than 100%, which sounds like it should be the bare minimum, but as we're well aware sometimes getting anything out of this squad is like getting blood out of a stone. rightly released this summer, but i'll give the benefit of the doubt to a trier, and academy one at that." |
E for Kakay seems incredibly harsh - maybe for someone who was a total ar$e and was also a terrible player.
But Kakay always gave his all even if he wasn't much good. |  |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:37 - May 20 with 5755 views | Antti_Heinola |
My one quibble with Cook's numbers is that the vast majority of games he missed were in the Ainsworth period, where we were so abject, I can't quite believe he would have made a difference had he been fit and playing. So I think his figures are (slightly) skewed. Had we had results like Blackburn or Watford in games he missed with Marti in charge, they'd be a little more compelling. But this is a nitpick, he was excellent and deserved an A. For me, JCS was above him, just for POTS, but suffered from our view of him (arguably justified) from last season.
Also, I know I'm the only one in the world, but Richard Dunne gets a lot of love for essentially half a good season and a great play-off final. He was totally off the pace the second half of the promotion season, and was really third choice CB after Ned and Clint for me. Ditto Nelsen, who seems to have gone down in folklore for playing well in about 8 games. Don't see it myself. |  |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 12:03 - May 20 with 5680 views | Silverfoxqpr |
Listening right now. |  | | |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 12:30 - May 20 with 5596 views | Northernr |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:37 - May 20 by Antti_Heinola |
My one quibble with Cook's numbers is that the vast majority of games he missed were in the Ainsworth period, where we were so abject, I can't quite believe he would have made a difference had he been fit and playing. So I think his figures are (slightly) skewed. Had we had results like Blackburn or Watford in games he missed with Marti in charge, they'd be a little more compelling. But this is a nitpick, he was excellent and deserved an A. For me, JCS was above him, just for POTS, but suffered from our view of him (arguably justified) from last season.
Also, I know I'm the only one in the world, but Richard Dunne gets a lot of love for essentially half a good season and a great play-off final. He was totally off the pace the second half of the promotion season, and was really third choice CB after Ned and Clint for me. Ditto Nelsen, who seems to have gone down in folklore for playing well in about 8 games. Don't see it myself. |
Cifuentes' only bad period of results was eight without a win through December/January and that also coincided with Cook being injured - he missed six of those games including the debacle at Millwall which was right up there with the Blackburn and Watford games. |  | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 13:16 - May 20 with 5450 views | Antti_Heinola |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 12:30 - May 20 by Northernr |
Cifuentes' only bad period of results was eight without a win through December/January and that also coincided with Cook being injured - he missed six of those games including the debacle at Millwall which was right up there with the Blackburn and Watford games. |
Fair enough - I don't remember him missing that many! Must've blanked it out, understandably.
(really enjoyed the round table discussion on Patreon by the way. Simmo, so reasoned on here, an absolute animal when it comes to giving out the grades!) [Post edited 20 May 13:17]
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 14:40 - May 20 with 5292 views | simmo |
The missed games, especially for those in the building for the Ainsworth period, was part of why I was really reticent to give an outright A to anybody. In the end though our entire defence bar Paal missed about 10-15 starts - which made it easier to directly compare them.
Imo only Cook, JCS and Chair got close to an A grade, but all have areas to improve for next season. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 15:28 - May 20 with 5171 views | ParkRoyalR |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 12:30 - May 20 by Northernr |
Cifuentes' only bad period of results was eight without a win through December/January and that also coincided with Cook being injured - he missed six of those games including the debacle at Millwall which was right up there with the Blackburn and Watford games. |
As others have been consistent in their support of Cook I've been reticent from the outset as was'nt really seeing a leader of the team, someone with a strong will to win yes, but someone who was blaming others too often and passing up responsibility to step out with the ball to others too often.
I often refer back to that Millwall game as JCS was'nt playing with the confidence that he developed later in the season (compare how fragile in contact he was that day to winning that header against Leeds) and with him on his left, Kakay on his right and Dozzell I really dont know where, Dunne did what he always does, show leadership, and for me was thrown under the bus by our fans for it, probably picking up one of his 2's or many 3's when really those who should have been picking up those scores should have been Cifuentes, Dozzell, Kakay and JCS that day.
Scoring Cook an A and Dunne a C/D is doubling down on a previously formed opinion as it could also be argued Cook & JCS form improved when they had Field and Hadeyn/Colback protecting them rather than Dozzell, and who would'nt look better behind those two playing at CDM.
Over the course of the season I'd have Cook, JCS and Dunne on similar scores and believe all deserve a B (but to put in context, over the course of the season only Sam Field merits an A in my opinion, with Chair very close on a B+). | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 15:29 - May 20 with 5176 views | hoops_legend |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 14:40 - May 20 by simmo |
The missed games, especially for those in the building for the Ainsworth period, was part of why I was really reticent to give an outright A to anybody. In the end though our entire defence bar Paal missed about 10-15 starts - which made it easier to directly compare them.
Imo only Cook, JCS and Chair got close to an A grade, but all have areas to improve for next season. |
Agree with all... Possibly Paal a B but you gave him B/C so cant complain! |  |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 16:39 - May 20 with 5007 views | Northernr |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 15:28 - May 20 by ParkRoyalR |
As others have been consistent in their support of Cook I've been reticent from the outset as was'nt really seeing a leader of the team, someone with a strong will to win yes, but someone who was blaming others too often and passing up responsibility to step out with the ball to others too often.
I often refer back to that Millwall game as JCS was'nt playing with the confidence that he developed later in the season (compare how fragile in contact he was that day to winning that header against Leeds) and with him on his left, Kakay on his right and Dozzell I really dont know where, Dunne did what he always does, show leadership, and for me was thrown under the bus by our fans for it, probably picking up one of his 2's or many 3's when really those who should have been picking up those scores should have been Cifuentes, Dozzell, Kakay and JCS that day.
Scoring Cook an A and Dunne a C/D is doubling down on a previously formed opinion as it could also be argued Cook & JCS form improved when they had Field and Hadeyn/Colback protecting them rather than Dozzell, and who would'nt look better behind those two playing at CDM.
Over the course of the season I'd have Cook, JCS and Dunne on similar scores and believe all deserve a B (but to put in context, over the course of the season only Sam Field merits an A in my opinion, with Chair very close on a B+). |
We've been round this track a few times this season so all I'll say is
1 - as I've said to you before, I didn't do the Millwall game, or the ratings for it, they'd all have been 2s or 3s if I had.
2 - I didn't give Dunne a C/D I gave him a C.
3 -I have specifically mentioned and praised Dunne's leadership qualities in his (overall very positive) review based on a comment one of the players made at the sponsors event.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 17:50 - May 20 with 4875 views | ParkRoyalR |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 16:39 - May 20 by Northernr |
We've been round this track a few times this season so all I'll say is
1 - as I've said to you before, I didn't do the Millwall game, or the ratings for it, they'd all have been 2s or 3s if I had.
2 - I didn't give Dunne a C/D I gave him a C.
3 -I have specifically mentioned and praised Dunne's leadership qualities in his (overall very positive) review based on a comment one of the players made at the sponsors event.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Stand corrected on the C/D and was certainly not having a dig about the Millwall game scores again, just I always go back to that game when so many were hiding and he was'nt and it was those leadership qualities we saw at the end of the season (for example gambling to go forward and win that flick-on v Birmingham), and why I said Cifuentes had to get Dunne, Field and Dykes back in that team for the run-in.
Regardless of scores, I'm glad to have both in our Squad for next season, thanks for the report and fair play for mentioning that comment from one of the other players. | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 21:40 - May 20 with 4596 views | dm97 |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 15:28 - May 20 by ParkRoyalR |
As others have been consistent in their support of Cook I've been reticent from the outset as was'nt really seeing a leader of the team, someone with a strong will to win yes, but someone who was blaming others too often and passing up responsibility to step out with the ball to others too often.
I often refer back to that Millwall game as JCS was'nt playing with the confidence that he developed later in the season (compare how fragile in contact he was that day to winning that header against Leeds) and with him on his left, Kakay on his right and Dozzell I really dont know where, Dunne did what he always does, show leadership, and for me was thrown under the bus by our fans for it, probably picking up one of his 2's or many 3's when really those who should have been picking up those scores should have been Cifuentes, Dozzell, Kakay and JCS that day.
Scoring Cook an A and Dunne a C/D is doubling down on a previously formed opinion as it could also be argued Cook & JCS form improved when they had Field and Hadeyn/Colback protecting them rather than Dozzell, and who would'nt look better behind those two playing at CDM.
Over the course of the season I'd have Cook, JCS and Dunne on similar scores and believe all deserve a B (but to put in context, over the course of the season only Sam Field merits an A in my opinion, with Chair very close on a B+). |
While I’m hesitant to fall into the category of “nothing to moan about so at each others throat instead” QPR fandom, picking out Steve Cook from this group to criticise is absolutely wild. After the charlatans we’ve been through historically, and in the last two years especially, he’s quite literally everything we’ve always said we want in our players. [Post edited 20 May 21:41]
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 23:26 - May 20 with 4468 views | ParkRoyalR |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 21:40 - May 20 by dm97 |
While I’m hesitant to fall into the category of “nothing to moan about so at each others throat instead” QPR fandom, picking out Steve Cook from this group to criticise is absolutely wild. After the charlatans we’ve been through historically, and in the last two years especially, he’s quite literally everything we’ve always said we want in our players. [Post edited 20 May 21:41]
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Which is why I said I'm glad he's in our squad and worthy of a B, as were JCS, Dunne and Paal imo, just think too many things came together in the 2nd half of the season to really say Cook was the standout defensively. Just my opinion mind. | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:23 - May 21 with 4173 views | westberksr |
excellent stuff Clive & others.
whilst all that was written about Kakay was true I'd have gone with a D. Simply because, like Dunne, he gave a shite and I could feel his pain throughout the whole decline.
honest pro, club produced and someone I suspect we all really hoped it would work out for.
I might have gone higher for Dunne because again, I really like him, and I appear to have blanked out the pre Bristol City part of the season! Your notes and having seen them all in the flesh are a far more accurate memory than mine |  | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:31 - May 21 with 4145 views | Northernr |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:23 - May 21 by westberksr |
excellent stuff Clive & others.
whilst all that was written about Kakay was true I'd have gone with a D. Simply because, like Dunne, he gave a shite and I could feel his pain throughout the whole decline.
honest pro, club produced and someone I suspect we all really hoped it would work out for.
I might have gone higher for Dunne because again, I really like him, and I appear to have blanked out the pre Bristol City part of the season! Your notes and having seen them all in the flesh are a far more accurate memory than mine |
As we say on the pod, 'recency bias' is huge in these things. We were poor for the majority of the season.
I'm still fuming that Luongo got POTY here when Freeman had carried the team on his back by himself through the whole winter. | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:16 - May 21 with 3967 views | Antti_Heinola |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 09:31 - May 21 by Northernr |
As we say on the pod, 'recency bias' is huge in these things. We were poor for the majority of the season.
I'm still fuming that Luongo got POTY here when Freeman had carried the team on his back by himself through the whole winter. |
And you're still wrong. Luongo deserved it.
Freeman got it the year he left didn't he? What more do you want?
I am still fuming about Adel not getting it, and Illy never getting it seems insane. | |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:20 - May 21 with 3949 views | Northernr |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:16 - May 21 by Antti_Heinola |
And you're still wrong. Luongo deserved it.
Freeman got it the year he left didn't he? What more do you want?
I am still fuming about Adel not getting it, and Illy never getting it seems insane. |
The Taarabt thing was nuts.
Has Chair genuinely never had it? That is surprising. | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 13:01 - May 21 with 3820 views | francisbowles |
If Chair got it he would keep looking down at it and never give it up!😁 | | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 13:21 - May 21 with 3757 views | ngbqpr |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 13:01 - May 21 by francisbowles |
If Chair got it he would keep looking down at it and never give it up!😁 |
...or lamp someone over the head with it (allegedly) |  |
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| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 13:51 - May 21 with 3695 views | robith |
Fair.
I do think as a fanbase we do need to give Paal a bit more credit. People seem very eager to get on his back the moment he has an off day, but unlikely a lot of Beale's Babies, he shows up non stop giving his all. A really dependable anchor |  | | |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 14:23 - May 21 with 3626 views | simmo |
| End of Term Report 23/24 – Defenders on 11:16 - May 21 by Antti_Heinola |
And you're still wrong. Luongo deserved it.
Freeman got it the year he left didn't he? What more do you want?
I am still fuming about Adel not getting it, and Illy never getting it seems insane. |
With end of season awards I really feel Chair suffers from his own high consistency. When he falls below his usual excellent standards, he's having an 'off day' - even though that off day is just about better than most of the rest manage at their best.
Meanwhile when he is carrying the team as our only attacking outlet, running himself into the ground, popping up with a goal or assist - it's a 'business as usual' performance. 15 g/a's this season, in a team that had no scoring strikers or creativity generally - and his metrics are off the charts everywhere.
The POTY might as well be the 'exceeded expectations award' | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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