| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise 07:54 - May 29 with 2791 views | AnotherJohn |
The resident doctors - the new term for doctors in the training grades - got a pay uplift of about 22% last year and are now demanding a further 29% rise this year.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/junior-doctors-seeking-almost-30-073732927.html
The forum was divided in its views last year. Some of us worried that such a generous pay deal would trigger a round of catch-up pay demands in the public sector, but I don't think anybody thought the doctors would come back for so much more so quickly. As a reminder, the present scale for the training grades in England runs from £36,616 to £70,425. Salaries for consultants, specialty and specialist doctors (SAS) and GPs go much higher. Thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 09:01 - May 29 with 1021 views | Whiterockin |
I wouldn't say that they were only training grades.
Quote.
Resident doctors in the UK, formerly known as junior doctors, are qualified medical practitioners engaged in postgraduate training or working in non-training roles. They play a vital role in providing patient care, collaborating with other healthcare professionals, and participating in clinical governance activities. Resident doctors also contribute to the advancement of medical knowledge through research and development. |  | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 09:01 - May 29 with 1008 views | trampie |
I knew it was going to happen, it's greed, they are doing their apprenticeship and expect to earn a fortune while still learning their trade, when fully qualified having put the years in then they will earn the big bucks and become millionaires.
If they want to go to the sheiks Saudi Arabia or Trump's USA then carry on, I don't want people like that blackmailing this country in this country regardless of what job they do, the upshot is there is only so much money to go round and people lower done the pay grade will lose their jobs to pay even more money for these future millionaires as well as the taxpayer having to pay more when we have a ongoing cost of living crisis which will push more people towards poverty. |  |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 09:51 - May 29 with 978 views | Scotia |
The problem is that they should have had decent pay rises for many years, at least along with independent pay review recommendations. They want that to be rectified, it's understandable but unrealistic in the short term. I also think they're taking advantage of the new government to a certain degree.
The bottom line though is that Drs are remarkable people, the vast majority of people don't have the intellect, work ethic or vocation to become one. We should have been paying them more for years. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:11 - May 29 with 948 views | onehunglow |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 09:51 - May 29 by Scotia |
The problem is that they should have had decent pay rises for many years, at least along with independent pay review recommendations. They want that to be rectified, it's understandable but unrealistic in the short term. I also think they're taking advantage of the new government to a certain degree.
The bottom line though is that Drs are remarkable people, the vast majority of people don't have the intellect, work ethic or vocation to become one. We should have been paying them more for years. |
We live in a weird world where footballers can earn more in one day than surgeons
One does nothing of real consequence, the other saves lives by training and skill | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:27 - May 29 with 924 views | controversial_jack |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 09:51 - May 29 by Scotia |
The problem is that they should have had decent pay rises for many years, at least along with independent pay review recommendations. They want that to be rectified, it's understandable but unrealistic in the short term. I also think they're taking advantage of the new government to a certain degree.
The bottom line though is that Drs are remarkable people, the vast majority of people don't have the intellect, work ethic or vocation to become one. We should have been paying them more for years. |
Most ppl have the work ethic,many work far longer hours, but probably not the intellect. You are born with it or not | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:30 - May 29 with 931 views | union_jack |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:11 - May 29 by onehunglow |
We live in a weird world where footballers can earn more in one day than surgeons
One does nothing of real consequence, the other saves lives by training and skill |
It’s a huge mystery I must say.
Also, why have we now changed from Houseman to F1 / 2 to the American term, Resident. Have we lost our pride and feeling of individuality in this country? |  |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:31 - May 29 with 931 views | AnotherJohn |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 09:01 - May 29 by Whiterockin |
I wouldn't say that they were only training grades.
Quote.
Resident doctors in the UK, formerly known as junior doctors, are qualified medical practitioners engaged in postgraduate training or working in non-training roles. They play a vital role in providing patient care, collaborating with other healthcare professionals, and participating in clinical governance activities. Resident doctors also contribute to the advancement of medical knowledge through research and development. |
I thought somebody might say that based on our thread last year. The simple fact is "in training" is the term the BMA itself uses.
"There are two national pay scales which doctors in training in England may be paid under depending on their contract of employment. "
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/resident-doctors-pay-scales/pay-sca
The abbreviation ST, as for example ST6 for the highest grade, means specialist trainee.
https://www.doctorsrelocate.com/career-support/uk-doctors-grades/#:~:text=Doctor
Edit. Re Union Jack's post FT 1 and FT2 are foundation trainees who are not yet on the full medical register. I agree that things seemed simpler in the old days when there were HOs (really PRHOs), SHOs and registrars.
https://www.ihrdni.org/303-003.pdf [Post edited 29 May 10:40]
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:40 - May 29 with 919 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:27 - May 29 by controversial_jack |
Most ppl have the work ethic,many work far longer hours, but probably not the intellect. You are born with it or not |
Not many work longer hours at all, and nobody at that level of pressure or intensity.
They're expected to work 48 hrs a week, which is the limit of the European work directive, most of those I know work more and are on a rota too. [Post edited 29 May 10:50]
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:43 - May 29 with 906 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:11 - May 29 by onehunglow |
We live in a weird world where footballers can earn more in one day than surgeons
One does nothing of real consequence, the other saves lives by training and skill |
And people happily contribute to footballers salaries voluntarily but gripe at those saving their own lives getting an appropriate salary.
Darwin is correct. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 11:50 - May 29 with 823 views | trampie |
So as regards doctors per the above list doctors in the UK are one of the more higher paid in the World in their field, getting more money than doctors in comparable size countries like Germany, France, Italy and Spain. | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 12:59 - May 29 with 759 views | controversial_jack |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:40 - May 29 by Scotia |
Not many work longer hours at all, and nobody at that level of pressure or intensity.
They're expected to work 48 hrs a week, which is the limit of the European work directive, most of those I know work more and are on a rota too. [Post edited 29 May 10:50]
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48 hours was a short week for me when i was working. The European directive is just a directive. It's not followed and there are exceptions for continous operations | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 12:59 - May 29 with 766 views | AnotherJohn |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 11:50 - May 29 by trampie |
So as regards doctors per the above list doctors in the UK are one of the more higher paid in the World in their field, getting more money than doctors in comparable size countries like Germany, France, Italy and Spain. |
Many years ago a study known to me found that when doctors' salaries were compared taking account of purchasing power parity , rather than simple currency exchange rates, UK doctors actually did rather better than the raw cash figures suggested. For anybody who doesn't understand PPPs, this means that although the salary in the country the doctor could move to seems higher, the quantity of goods and services s/he can buy there with that money isn't any more than in the UK. I'd imagine the situation is much the same now, especially post-Brexit when the pound fell. How much does a pint cost in Australia? 
If you take the countries in JM&B's post where a doctor can practice in English, there actually aren't a vast number of alternatives that pay much more. If many more medical graduates opted to emigrate they might find there weren't enough lucrative posts to go around. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:19 - May 29 with 744 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 12:59 - May 29 by controversial_jack |
48 hours was a short week for me when i was working. The European directive is just a directive. It's not followed and there are exceptions for continous operations |
How many lives did you save? | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:31 - May 29 with 720 views | controversial_jack |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:19 - May 29 by Scotia |
How many lives did you save? |
I wasn't in the field of saving lives,however safety was a big part of my job, but if you don't want to save lives don't go into medicine, get another job. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:33 - May 29 with 717 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 11:50 - May 29 by trampie |
So as regards doctors per the above list doctors in the UK are one of the more higher paid in the World in their field, getting more money than doctors in comparable size countries like Germany, France, Italy and Spain. |
I don't think it's really a fair comparison. It's a snapshot of just one aspect.
Anyway for comparison a recently qualified Dr in France earns a minimum of £45k, in Australia it's £60k. In the UK it's about £32k.
Another (just one of many) aspect you have to consider is the level of debt they finish studying with.
For example I have two friends both finished studying with about £100k of debt. One is Doctor the other a commercial pilot. One earns about £70k the other about £40k . One is not allowed to work more than prescribed hours, the other is expected to. Guess which one is which?
They deserve to be paid appropriately. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:10 - May 29 with 661 views | trampie |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:33 - May 29 by Scotia |
I don't think it's really a fair comparison. It's a snapshot of just one aspect.
Anyway for comparison a recently qualified Dr in France earns a minimum of £45k, in Australia it's £60k. In the UK it's about £32k.
Another (just one of many) aspect you have to consider is the level of debt they finish studying with.
For example I have two friends both finished studying with about £100k of debt. One is Doctor the other a commercial pilot. One earns about £70k the other about £40k . One is not allowed to work more than prescribed hours, the other is expected to. Guess which one is which?
They deserve to be paid appropriately. |
They are overpaid or will be when eventually fully qualified, a poster has just pointed out how much coin they are going to get compared to doctors in other countries and that they are even better off looking at the big picture of higher cost of living in some of those other countries and that some other countries are hell holes and you will need to live behind high walls and have guards and their language over there might not be English.
For somebody to be given the opportunity through schooling and enjoying our health care while growing up to turn their back on this country to chase more money somewhere abroad when they are well paid here is poor and good riddance I say, I remember when it was seen as a vocation, not just money but status and standing that status and standing is gone as regards some of them now that only do it for the money with no real concern for fellow citizens apart from how much money they can earn. | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:17 - May 29 with 643 views | Gwyn737 |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:33 - May 29 by Scotia |
I don't think it's really a fair comparison. It's a snapshot of just one aspect.
Anyway for comparison a recently qualified Dr in France earns a minimum of £45k, in Australia it's £60k. In the UK it's about £32k.
Another (just one of many) aspect you have to consider is the level of debt they finish studying with.
For example I have two friends both finished studying with about £100k of debt. One is Doctor the other a commercial pilot. One earns about £70k the other about £40k . One is not allowed to work more than prescribed hours, the other is expected to. Guess which one is which?
They deserve to be paid appropriately. |
I wonder if like some other public service jobs where the benefits seem to be too weighted to the back end of careers?
I’d also like to know (after reading the Adam Kay books) how similar the jobs actually are country to country. It’s not just about the hours. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:33 - May 29 with 605 views | trampie |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:17 - May 29 by Gwyn737 |
I wonder if like some other public service jobs where the benefits seem to be too weighted to the back end of careers?
I’d also like to know (after reading the Adam Kay books) how similar the jobs actually are country to country. It’s not just about the hours. |
The last time this topic came up, I said fine give them more at the front end but take it off them at the back end, the amount of money they will earn if completing a full career and not forgetting their pension is more than fair recompense.
The way I look at it is the big picture, the more doctors get (head teachers, police chiefs, council leader the same) the less society gets, porters, cleaners, kitchen staff etc lose their jobs in some cases so the doctors can have more money, taxes might have to rise so society is poorer which in this day and age might mean more children in poverty.
I would rather give a pay rise to a nurse than a doctor, people in the higher paid jobs earn enough from the public purse imo as it is. | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:39 - May 29 with 574 views | Whiterockin |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:33 - May 29 by trampie |
The last time this topic came up, I said fine give them more at the front end but take it off them at the back end, the amount of money they will earn if completing a full career and not forgetting their pension is more than fair recompense.
The way I look at it is the big picture, the more doctors get (head teachers, police chiefs, council leader the same) the less society gets, porters, cleaners, kitchen staff etc lose their jobs in some cases so the doctors can have more money, taxes might have to rise so society is poorer which in this day and age might mean more children in poverty.
I would rather give a pay rise to a nurse than a doctor, people in the higher paid jobs earn enough from the public purse imo as it is. |
That seems like communism to me. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:48 - May 29 with 530 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:10 - May 29 by trampie |
They are overpaid or will be when eventually fully qualified, a poster has just pointed out how much coin they are going to get compared to doctors in other countries and that they are even better off looking at the big picture of higher cost of living in some of those other countries and that some other countries are hell holes and you will need to live behind high walls and have guards and their language over there might not be English.
For somebody to be given the opportunity through schooling and enjoying our health care while growing up to turn their back on this country to chase more money somewhere abroad when they are well paid here is poor and good riddance I say, I remember when it was seen as a vocation, not just money but status and standing that status and standing is gone as regards some of them now that only do it for the money with no real concern for fellow citizens apart from how much money they can earn. |
I don't know a single doctor doing the job for the money. It's not great and very rarely enough.
Plenty of people earn more for less. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:51 - May 29 with 525 views | trampie |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:39 - May 29 by Whiterockin |
That seems like communism to me. |
I don't know about communism but I do know we have rampant capitalism right now.
The UK has one of the highest levels of income inequality in Europe and the World.
I've seen it in the past we have gone from a fairly low gap between high and low earners decades ago to one of the biggest pay gaps between well paid and low paid in the Western World. | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:57 - May 29 with 510 views | trampie |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:48 - May 29 by Scotia |
I don't know a single doctor doing the job for the money. It's not great and very rarely enough.
Plenty of people earn more for less. |
Oh that is something at least so if the state don't give junior doctors (or whatever they are called) extra money again, they won't leave the country as they are not doing it just for money you think.
Footballers earn more for less but they are not paid through the public purse. | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:58 - May 29 with 502 views | Whiterockin |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:51 - May 29 by trampie |
I don't know about communism but I do know we have rampant capitalism right now.
The UK has one of the highest levels of income inequality in Europe and the World.
I've seen it in the past we have gone from a fairly low gap between high and low earners decades ago to one of the biggest pay gaps between well paid and low paid in the Western World. |
Yet in recent years the lowest paid have probably had the largest pay increases they have ever had. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:59 - May 29 with 492 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:39 - May 29 by Whiterockin |
That seems like communism to me. |
Socialism at least. And precisely why neither system can work. | | | |
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