| Starmer's welfare cuts 18:09 - Jun 24 with 3763 views | SullutaCreturned |
I agree with what he's trying to do, mostly anyway but it looks like rebellion in the Labour ranks,
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04dn3v616yo |  | | |  |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:33 - Jun 27 with 587 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 12:43 - Jun 27 by Whiterockin |
Let's just say it's the way you come across, resentful of anyone who betters themselves. |
I don't warm to people that brag, I do like to see people that better themselves but not people that like to show off and think they are better than others. |  |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:43 - Jun 27 with 567 views | raynor94 |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:28 - Jun 27 by trampie |
Why do you want to know that ? |
Is there a problem with asking it's commendable that you do it |  |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:48 - Jun 27 with 548 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 12:34 - Jun 27 by trampie |
You were comparing somebody in Swansea Council wage with somebody working for a private firm wage and clearly wondering why the difference, I gave you a possible reason for the difference. |
But you said the person in swansea Council earns too much, so what do you think they should earn? | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:48 - Jun 27 with 540 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:07 - Jun 27 by JACKMANANDBOY |
So the solution to the push back on welfare reforms is a two tier system where two people with the same circumstances will get different benefits, sounds a bit like Starmer's Brexit compromise - crap. |
I would think judging by this thread that posters on here would think that Starmer is vastly underpaid therefore no doubt they would think that Liz Truss and Boris Johnson were also vastly underpaid. | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:51 - Jun 27 with 546 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 11:54 - Jun 27 by trampie |
Swansea council have a guaranteed income stream, Stobart doesn't, you could say that the public sector doesn't create wealth it just spends the wealth the private sector makes for it. |
I didn't have you marked down as a capitalist? | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:20 - Jun 27 with 512 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:51 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
I didn't have you marked down as a capitalist? |
We live in a capitalist society and those are the realities of a capitalist society. | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:30 - Jun 27 with 498 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:48 - Jun 27 by trampie |
I would think judging by this thread that posters on here would think that Starmer is vastly underpaid therefore no doubt they would think that Liz Truss and Boris Johnson were also vastly underpaid. |
The Prime Minister is vastly underpaid, that doesn't mean that they do a good job. | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:31 - Jun 27 with 496 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:20 - Jun 27 by trampie |
We live in a capitalist society and those are the realities of a capitalist society. |
And why socialism/commuism will never work. | | | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:37 - Jun 27 with 478 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 13:48 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
But you said the person in swansea Council earns too much, so what do you think they should earn? |
I didn't say Swansea Council per se, I said council leaders, people at the top of the wage structure in the public sector should earn less and people at the bottom of the wages structure in the public sector should earn more.
You seem to think that people at the top of the public sector should earn more is that right ?
If that is the case do you then think that people in the middle and bottom of the wage structure in the public sector should continue to earn what they are earning now and the wage gap should grows between them ? or do you think everybody in the public sector should have more money no matter who they are ?
Any pay rises would be taxpayers money so would you expect the wealth creators eg the private sector to pay more and more to give more money to those that don't create any wealth ? | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:15 - Jun 27 with 449 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:37 - Jun 27 by trampie |
I didn't say Swansea Council per se, I said council leaders, people at the top of the wage structure in the public sector should earn less and people at the bottom of the wages structure in the public sector should earn more.
You seem to think that people at the top of the public sector should earn more is that right ?
If that is the case do you then think that people in the middle and bottom of the wage structure in the public sector should continue to earn what they are earning now and the wage gap should grows between them ? or do you think everybody in the public sector should have more money no matter who they are ?
Any pay rises would be taxpayers money so would you expect the wealth creators eg the private sector to pay more and more to give more money to those that don't create any wealth ? |
I think it's about right as it is - pay award should follow independent reccomendations. % pay increases aren't ideal but it's the only way to accurately reward seniority and prevent grade creep between roles.
People in the public sector should be paid based on the complexity of their job and in some cases more depending on external market forces and associated retention issues.
In the private sector nobody would be prepared to have responsibility for a £900 million budget and employ 10000 people for £170k a year.
I think our public services are in a shocking state and we all need to pay more to get them up to scratch. Everyone should pay more or expect less. | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:25 - Jun 27 with 405 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:15 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
I think it's about right as it is - pay award should follow independent reccomendations. % pay increases aren't ideal but it's the only way to accurately reward seniority and prevent grade creep between roles.
People in the public sector should be paid based on the complexity of their job and in some cases more depending on external market forces and associated retention issues.
In the private sector nobody would be prepared to have responsibility for a £900 million budget and employ 10000 people for £170k a year.
I think our public services are in a shocking state and we all need to pay more to get them up to scratch. Everyone should pay more or expect less. |
Everyone should pay more you say, I didnt have you done as a Communist. | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:29 - Jun 27 with 403 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 14:37 - Jun 27 by trampie |
I didn't say Swansea Council per se, I said council leaders, people at the top of the wage structure in the public sector should earn less and people at the bottom of the wages structure in the public sector should earn more.
You seem to think that people at the top of the public sector should earn more is that right ?
If that is the case do you then think that people in the middle and bottom of the wage structure in the public sector should continue to earn what they are earning now and the wage gap should grows between them ? or do you think everybody in the public sector should have more money no matter who they are ?
Any pay rises would be taxpayers money so would you expect the wealth creators eg the private sector to pay more and more to give more money to those that don't create any wealth ? |
Trampie, it might suprise you but, I agree with you.
When people talk about things like pay degradation have they considered that percentage rises are pay degradation in action, the poorer paid getting lower pay rises than those at the top levels.
Grade creep?
Anyway, govong pay award by percentage strikes me as unfair and wrong. We (in my non expert opinion) should set pay at whatever level is fair then award everybody the same pay rise, for example...£2000 per year. That prevents the wealth gap widening, there is no gradevcreep or grade degradation either. | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:36 - Jun 27 with 395 views | Whiterockin |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:29 - Jun 27 by SullutaCreturned |
Trampie, it might suprise you but, I agree with you.
When people talk about things like pay degradation have they considered that percentage rises are pay degradation in action, the poorer paid getting lower pay rises than those at the top levels.
Grade creep?
Anyway, govong pay award by percentage strikes me as unfair and wrong. We (in my non expert opinion) should set pay at whatever level is fair then award everybody the same pay rise, for example...£2000 per year. That prevents the wealth gap widening, there is no gradevcreep or grade degradation either. |
The problem with not paying prople at the very top, top wages for the job you will not get the very best candidates. Employ inferior staff and you get inferior results. By all means pay slightly less but get the salary performance related so you earn your money. If prople fail you will not need to sack them because they will leave as they are not achieving their bonuses. |  | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:42 - Jun 27 with 381 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:36 - Jun 27 by Whiterockin |
The problem with not paying prople at the very top, top wages for the job you will not get the very best candidates. Employ inferior staff and you get inferior results. By all means pay slightly less but get the salary performance related so you earn your money. If prople fail you will not need to sack them because they will leave as they are not achieving their bonuses. |
Well I look around and honestly, a lot of these people at the top, if they are the best there is then we are in deep shit.
Look at all the inferior results in so many places.
Dwr Cymru CEO, 489k last year. I could do a long list.
If people fail....they shouldn't be allowed to leave, they should be sacked. That's what happens at a lower level if you can't do the job.
What happens when you pay massive wages to the so called "best people" and you still get inferior results? | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 17:19 - Jun 27 with 332 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:29 - Jun 27 by SullutaCreturned |
Trampie, it might suprise you but, I agree with you.
When people talk about things like pay degradation have they considered that percentage rises are pay degradation in action, the poorer paid getting lower pay rises than those at the top levels.
Grade creep?
Anyway, govong pay award by percentage strikes me as unfair and wrong. We (in my non expert opinion) should set pay at whatever level is fair then award everybody the same pay rise, for example...£2000 per year. That prevents the wealth gap widening, there is no gradevcreep or grade degradation either. |
The flat rate pay rise isn't a bad idea, it was tried one year in our place but wasn't popular as it didn't reflect peoples associated cost of living rises. Ultimately it's a staff retention thing.
Grade creep I was referring to is that if those earning less get a higher % rise eventually they'll catch up with those earning more. | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 17:22 - Jun 27 with 320 views | Scotia |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:25 - Jun 27 by trampie |
Everyone should pay more you say, I didnt have you done as a Communist. |
More not all the same. | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 17:30 - Jun 27 with 308 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 15:36 - Jun 27 by Whiterockin |
The problem with not paying prople at the very top, top wages for the job you will not get the very best candidates. Employ inferior staff and you get inferior results. By all means pay slightly less but get the salary performance related so you earn your money. If prople fail you will not need to sack them because they will leave as they are not achieving their bonuses. |
Some work places the best candidates don't get promoted because they are too valuable doing the job they are currently doing, if they do a key job that is an important cog in the wheel, management don't want to promote them as they know that it's almost certain if they did they would be replaced by a less capable person in the key role, so they promote a lesser candidate that they will be able to replace, they know that the manager role anybody could do it but the lower grade hands on getting the job done dealing with everybody is hard to replace.
I know a place where it was well known that 'failure was rewarded' not success but failure. | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:20 - Jun 27 with 279 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 17:19 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
The flat rate pay rise isn't a bad idea, it was tried one year in our place but wasn't popular as it didn't reflect peoples associated cost of living rises. Ultimately it's a staff retention thing.
Grade creep I was referring to is that if those earning less get a higher % rise eventually they'll catch up with those earning more. |
In my company all grades got the same percentage rise.
Associated cost of living rises? What about all those years when most people got less than inflation but the top earners got inflation busting raises? What about those associated living expenses for the majority?
The wealth gap will continue to grow unless we stop percentage raises and the time will come when the majority will have had enough.
I am going to quote Mike Duncan now, he does a history podcast, he's covered Roman History and the revolutions in the USA, France and England
" I think there is a major test coming for the elites of the post industrialised West about the very real problem of growing economic inequality; it's not a problem because it's not fair, it's a problem because it's starting to become a major drag on the world economy and a major hindrance to the legitimacy of the system. The preposterous inbalance of the distribution of global economic wealth is going to have to be dealth with eventually. The only question is, how drastic and violent the silution will be. So will the elites gove a little today to keep a lot tomorrow or do they give nothing today and find themselves lined up against a wall tomorrow? Right now it's their choice, down the road it probably won't be"
He refenced what happened in first century Rome. I think he has a point. The Roman Senators were intransigent and refused to yield even a little bit and it didn't end well for them. Eventually in the modern world people will have had enough and if the rich don't share it could get taken by force.
A little bit of grace and wisdom could save them from a whole lot of trouble. Duncan authored a book called "The Storm Before the Storm" which chronicles...well here's a blurb about the book,
In 146 BC, Rome finally emerged as the strongest power in the Mediterranean. But the very success of the Republic proved to be its undoing. The republican system was unable to cope with the vast empire Rome now ruled: rising economic inequality disrupted traditional ways of life, endemic social and ethnic prejudice led to clashes over citizenship and voting rights, and rampant corruption and ruthless ambition sparked violent political clashes that cracked the once indestructible foundations of the Republic.
Chronicling the years 146-78 BC, The Storm Before the Storm dives headlong into the first generation to face this treacherous new political environment. Abandoning the ancient principles of their forbearers, men like Marius, Sulla, and the Gracchi brothers set dangerous new precedents that would start the Republic on the road to destruction and provide a stark warning about what can happen to a civilization that has lost its way.
Sorry it's longwinded but it begs the questions, has our modern civilisation lost it's way? Are we on the brink of collapse? | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:28 - Jun 27 with 255 views | trampie |
I'm the one that keeps on saying the system is wrong because of wage inequality, take money off the high earners, give it to the lower earners, I get called a Communist, i get called jealous etc etc but it seems like I'm not the only one that can see it then, I used to say on here come the revolution the suits will be the first ones up against the wall. | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:30 - Jun 27 with 253 views | Whiterockin |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:28 - Jun 27 by trampie |
I'm the one that keeps on saying the system is wrong because of wage inequality, take money off the high earners, give it to the lower earners, I get called a Communist, i get called jealous etc etc but it seems like I'm not the only one that can see it then, I used to say on here come the revolution the suits will be the first ones up against the wall. |
"Come the revolution"
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:35 - Jun 27 with 239 views | raynor94 |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:28 - Jun 27 by trampie |
I'm the one that keeps on saying the system is wrong because of wage inequality, take money off the high earners, give it to the lower earners, I get called a Communist, i get called jealous etc etc but it seems like I'm not the only one that can see it then, I used to say on here come the revolution the suits will be the first ones up against the wall. |
Citizen Smith! | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:41 - Jun 27 with 225 views | trampie |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:35 - Jun 27 by raynor94 |
Citizen Smith! |
"Power To The People". | |
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:53 - Jun 27 with 209 views | max936 |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 09:29 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
It's not just Labour rebels. Everyone seems to think that.
We need to pay more and government spend less or expect less in return. |
We pay enough and I've paid more than enough in my 48yrs of working and I still got over two to go.
Once you've attained a full stamp you shouldn't be paying it anymore, it's akin to robbery and more money for governments to give away and waste.
[Post edited 27 Jun 18:56]
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| Starmer's welfare cuts on 19:06 - Jun 27 with 183 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 18:28 - Jun 27 by trampie |
I'm the one that keeps on saying the system is wrong because of wage inequality, take money off the high earners, give it to the lower earners, I get called a Communist, i get called jealous etc etc but it seems like I'm not the only one that can see it then, I used to say on here come the revolution the suits will be the first ones up against the wall. |
See, I don't entirely disagree with your politics, just parts of them.
Taking momey from the rich to give to the poor is not quite the same as what I proposed though.
People can laugh at it but history has examples where the wealth inequality has caused mini revolutions.
The French revolution had many causes but the poor were definitely fed up of the better off taking an unfair share. Some obviously think it couldn't happen again. I think it could. | | | |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 19:24 - Jun 27 with 171 views | max936 |
| Starmer's welfare cuts on 19:06 - Jun 27 by SullutaCreturned |
See, I don't entirely disagree with your politics, just parts of them.
Taking momey from the rich to give to the poor is not quite the same as what I proposed though.
People can laugh at it but history has examples where the wealth inequality has caused mini revolutions.
The French revolution had many causes but the poor were definitely fed up of the better off taking an unfair share. Some obviously think it couldn't happen again. I think it could. |
There's to many rich div's who think they can be politicians whilst not having the first idea and that's why this country is F'ed because they've got no idea on the value of money and our money at that. | |
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