| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 20:27 - Jul 30 with 3355 views | Philothesuperhoop |
I applied to go to this fans forum but didn’t get a space unfortunately. I watched most of it on YouTube and I’m obviously really grateful for this write-up Clive.
I’m really torn about what I heard. So much of what CN said made sense and I really like what they are trying to do. The age of the Dev squad and getting first team minutes for younger players is superb, but that is as long as we are remaining a Championship team whilst doing that.
My biggest concern is the control we’ve given to CN, who is in his first job. It was so obvious watching last night, why the relationship with Marti broke down. CN is very clearly a control freak. I was really very worried about the lack of respect shown to JS, and the tiny amount of time he was allowed to speak. If I’d been in his position it would have sent up some very serious warning signals to me. He dealt with it with humour…but I really do hope he knew what he was getting himself into or this could go badly wrong very very quickly.
If I’d been there, the question I was going to ask was how much each Sky game nets us in additional revenue once the lower ticket sales and concession sales are taken into account? I’d love to know that actual figure, because again the fixture list is being torn to pieces already. The number of Saturday 3pm games this side of Christmas is already tiny.
Having been supporting since 1974, and having time at Loftus Rd as a key part of my non-work life, I just hope that the cash from Sky is large enough to offset how disenfranchised the long suffering fan feels. |  | |  |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 22:34 - Jul 30 with 3065 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 18:05 - Jul 30 by Burnleyhoop |
Can’t believe so many responses were aimed at the apparent cost of the fcking PA system.
To me, it finally feels and sounds like we now have a group of professionals in the building that have a clear understanding of what is needed to take this club forward and are implementing a holistic strategic direction throughout. Successful clubs are taking this approach, Brentford the obvious example. We have been crying out for this approach for the last ten years as we have lurched from one disaster to another with no direction or consistency of purpose.
I’m all in……until we go on a six game losing run in September and there is another long queue forming outside the physio’s room. |
100% agree. Watched it, read this great report, and the PA system is the main talking point. Ridiculous.
I'm loving what CN is doing at the club. There, I said it. |  |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 06:16 - Jul 31 with 2758 views | kernowhoop |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 18:05 - Jul 30 by Burnleyhoop |
Can’t believe so many responses were aimed at the apparent cost of the fcking PA system.
To me, it finally feels and sounds like we now have a group of professionals in the building that have a clear understanding of what is needed to take this club forward and are implementing a holistic strategic direction throughout. Successful clubs are taking this approach, Brentford the obvious example. We have been crying out for this approach for the last ten years as we have lurched from one disaster to another with no direction or consistency of purpose.
I’m all in……until we go on a six game losing run in September and there is another long queue forming outside the physio’s room. |
All the attention to the cost of a PA system?
That's how it goes when there are big - but difficult - things to get to grips with.
Councils fall into the trap of spending ages discussing the office car parking but then struggle with strategic issues on the same agenda. Government? They fill their time with debating relatively minor savings (Winter Fuel Allowance?} and find themselves unable to face up to the big stuff (£110 billion p.a. in interest on debt?).
Focusing on something like the PA system is pretty normal. We need not be too red-faced.
By the way, £1 million did sound a lot.  | | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 08:32 - Jul 31 with 2603 views | SW_Ranger |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 19:51 - Jul 30 by Northernr |
It's when you've been typing, cropping pictures, fact checking, adding fonts, putting in bits of commentary and so on for two hours and then you look how far into the tape you've got and it says 14 minutes and 35 seconds that really separates out the casual blogger from the outright sadist. |
Yeh, well done Clive.
Sitting at the computer for hours and seeing you’ve a long way to go is a real commitment - cheers for going there - really appreciated by all of us (or at least thats what AI told me  ) |  | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 08:44 - Jul 31 with 2575 views | Northolt_Rs |
Great write up. Thank you. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 09:17 - Jul 31 with 2473 views | stantheman10 |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 20:12 - Jul 30 by Stanisgod |
Ipswich today after signing a player for 20 MILLION QUID. Parachute payments at their finest and what we are up against. |
They sold Delap for £30 million so not necessarily the parachute money | | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 09:35 - Jul 31 with 2447 views | Northernr |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 09:17 - Jul 31 by stantheman10 |
They sold Delap for £30 million so not necessarily the parachute money |
Hutchinson as well. |  | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 10:28 - Jul 31 with 2311 views | Lanhoop |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 09:35 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
Hutchinson as well. |
I thought that hadn't happened. At least hadn't happened yet. | | | |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 10:30 - Jul 31 with 2297 views | Northernr |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 10:28 - Jul 31 by Lanhoop |
I thought that hadn't happened. At least hadn't happened yet. |
Ah yes, yet. | | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 12:59 - Jul 31 with 1993 views | TheChef |
Cheers Clive - much appreciated! |  |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 13:35 - Jul 31 with 1901 views | BklynRanger |
Thanks for taking the time to do all that, Clive. Interesting to see some of it in print.
It was a bit of an awkward occasion, as is often the case, but more good than bad on show overall.
I think Nourry is a hardworking, ambitious, intelligent bloke, who generally seems to be learning, and does seem to have a relatively coherent plan. He was more open than ever (I thought) about the focus being on developing players, and that is going to come with some pain at times next season I'm sure.
He made some decent points in his slightly cranky, old-beyond-his-years style. The one that stood out for me was "Our edge is going to be consistency" - very clear, no doubts, and something that's achievable and historically lacking.
There are still some things where he needs to change, or continue to learn - and that open him up to criticism and cause me to not fully trust him, to be honest. Two obvious examples being the contract length fake news argument - that it's just not a thing. Saying that doesn't make it true I'm afraid.
And second, Ben Williams' response on injuries - I didn't like that at all for a number of reasons I went on about on the forum thread, but the summary would be: be careful of feeling superior or sharper to the people who support this team - you'd be surprised how many of the ones you consider boozy old codgers actually do understand 'science', 'data' etc - at least enough to know when you're using these shiny baubles to blow smoke up their arses.
I also thought Nourry gave a minor grimace when JS (who did well) said 'This is the manager'. Experience of this past season, ongoing insecurity, gastric reflux - who knows.
But overall a handful of things to get irritated or sceptical about and an equal or greater handful to feel positive about, I thought. [Post edited 31 Jul 13:39]
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 13:36 - Jul 31 with 1901 views | Sommerbreeze |
thanks so much for this Clive
on that last question was there a sense of 'who carries the can if this all goes wrong?' or was it more about the playing style?
i suppose that's the one thing i'd like to know - it's easy to set targets and see what success looks like but what does failure look like? or does it not exist? does going down but with a team of 22.5 year olds mean targets were achieved? | | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:20 - Jul 31 with 1785 views | TheChef |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 13:35 - Jul 31 by BklynRanger |
Thanks for taking the time to do all that, Clive. Interesting to see some of it in print.
It was a bit of an awkward occasion, as is often the case, but more good than bad on show overall.
I think Nourry is a hardworking, ambitious, intelligent bloke, who generally seems to be learning, and does seem to have a relatively coherent plan. He was more open than ever (I thought) about the focus being on developing players, and that is going to come with some pain at times next season I'm sure.
He made some decent points in his slightly cranky, old-beyond-his-years style. The one that stood out for me was "Our edge is going to be consistency" - very clear, no doubts, and something that's achievable and historically lacking.
There are still some things where he needs to change, or continue to learn - and that open him up to criticism and cause me to not fully trust him, to be honest. Two obvious examples being the contract length fake news argument - that it's just not a thing. Saying that doesn't make it true I'm afraid.
And second, Ben Williams' response on injuries - I didn't like that at all for a number of reasons I went on about on the forum thread, but the summary would be: be careful of feeling superior or sharper to the people who support this team - you'd be surprised how many of the ones you consider boozy old codgers actually do understand 'science', 'data' etc - at least enough to know when you're using these shiny baubles to blow smoke up their arses.
I also thought Nourry gave a minor grimace when JS (who did well) said 'This is the manager'. Experience of this past season, ongoing insecurity, gastric reflux - who knows.
But overall a handful of things to get irritated or sceptical about and an equal or greater handful to feel positive about, I thought. [Post edited 31 Jul 13:39]
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Good stuff.
And interesting point re JS, clearly he knows which side his bread is buttered (or at least accepts it). But as mentioned let's see how the relationship with CN bears up when we're on our latest ten game winless streak... | |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:33 - Jul 31 with 1763 views | Northernr |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:20 - Jul 31 by TheChef |
Good stuff.
And interesting point re JS, clearly he knows which side his bread is buttered (or at least accepts it). But as mentioned let's see how the relationship with CN bears up when we're on our latest ten game winless streak... |
And also, if we do poorly, does the head coach still get the blame for that and get sacked, when we're going out of our way to make out how little he's got to do with it all and how collaborative it all is? | | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:41 - Jul 31 with 1723 views | TheChef |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:33 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
And also, if we do poorly, does the head coach still get the blame for that and get sacked, when we're going out of our way to make out how little he's got to do with it all and how collaborative it all is? |
"Prepare the communal cat o' nine tails!" | |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 15:33 - Jul 31 with 1579 views | simmo |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 18:16 - Jul 30 by NewYorkRanger |
Thanks for taking the time to write up the notes Clive - I didn't watch it so this is a good way to get the low down.
I was a huge Marti fan and have been quite critical of Nourry in the past. However, although talk is cheap and we need to see action (and wins on the pitch) I'm quite optimistic about some of what I'm hearing. Certainly the stuff around overall structure and essentially nobody being irreplaceable in that structure has to be a good thing. It would certainly take us away from the complete 180's we've done in the past when moving from one manager to the next.
Obviously that can all be disregarded when wer'e in the bottom 3 after 10 games but for now I'll remain hopeful. And stupidly optimistic. |
Downvoted accidentally, but this is about where I am.
Still some bits that I have questions marks and concerns about - particularly when it comes to accountability - and the 'favourite player' comment from Ben Williams makes him come across as a condescending twà t, but I like that there's a plan and I appreciate them going through it in detail.
Ultimately this is a unique and difficult league, and the thing that will separate us from the other non parachute clubs will be consistency, layered improvement and finding innovation where we can. It's talking a good game, let's see how it plays out! |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 15:45 - Jul 31 with 1546 views | kensalriser |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:33 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
And also, if we do poorly, does the head coach still get the blame for that and get sacked, when we're going out of our way to make out how little he's got to do with it all and how collaborative it all is? |
Yes. |  |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 16:09 - Jul 31 with 1471 views | slmrstid |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:33 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
And also, if we do poorly, does the head coach still get the blame for that and get sacked, when we're going out of our way to make out how little he's got to do with it all and how collaborative it all is? |
This is my continued problem with it all. Yes I do get the argument against "100% what manager wants manager gets as we swing wildly from manager to manager", but I'd be willing to bet a lot of dosh that if results are bad because the squad is shite it will be Stephan who gets fired whilst Nourry, Belk and the rest of the Merry Men who built it all carry on their gravy train getting paid large sums regardless. |  | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 16:24 - Jul 31 with 1435 views | simmo |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 16:09 - Jul 31 by slmrstid |
This is my continued problem with it all. Yes I do get the argument against "100% what manager wants manager gets as we swing wildly from manager to manager", but I'd be willing to bet a lot of dosh that if results are bad because the squad is shite it will be Stephan who gets fired whilst Nourry, Belk and the rest of the Merry Men who built it all carry on their gravy train getting paid large sums regardless. |
Well Ben Williams was technically promoted after what idiots like us would consider to be a poor season from an injury/medical perspective...
I'm not advocating people lose jobs every year over poor performance, but it seems that with so many people contributing in different ways, there will be limited personal accountability for what we might perceive as failure. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 16:31 - Jul 31 with 1409 views | simmo |
I also think there's a concern with the age focus. Whilst younger is the way to go for developing sellable assets, it also means less consistency on the pitch.
Sunderland were doing this exact thing for a few seasons and were then successful once they added some proven experience to their talented youth. We saw how the likes of Hayden and Cook made a difference to us short term.
Overall I agree with the youthful strategy but would still like to see a few more battle worn additions sprinkled through. I think this league demands it. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 17:26 - Jul 31 with 1284 views | eastside_r |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:33 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
And also, if we do poorly, does the head coach still get the blame for that and get sacked, when we're going out of our way to make out how little he's got to do with it all and how collaborative it all is? |
Clive, we no longer sack managers for a poor string of results; we sack them for falling out with the CEO. |  | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 18:25 - Jul 31 with 1158 views | VancouverHoop |
During a match coaches are very visible, waving their arms in obscure gestures on the sidelines. We can all see him, he's surely the club's leader. In a way though he's more like a Mayan king who has little real power, but is carried in pomp at the head of an army. When he's killed, usually quite quickly, everyone runs away screaming. However no body blames the 'wise men' who began the conflict in the first place. | | | |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 18:36 - Jul 31 with 1120 views | Stanisgod |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 09:17 - Jul 31 by stantheman10 |
They sold Delap for £30 million so not necessarily the parachute money |
Ah good point, won't be touching the parachute money till next season then  |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 18:56 - Jul 31 with 1068 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 20:27 - Jul 30 by Philothesuperhoop |
I applied to go to this fans forum but didn’t get a space unfortunately. I watched most of it on YouTube and I’m obviously really grateful for this write-up Clive.
I’m really torn about what I heard. So much of what CN said made sense and I really like what they are trying to do. The age of the Dev squad and getting first team minutes for younger players is superb, but that is as long as we are remaining a Championship team whilst doing that.
My biggest concern is the control we’ve given to CN, who is in his first job. It was so obvious watching last night, why the relationship with Marti broke down. CN is very clearly a control freak. I was really very worried about the lack of respect shown to JS, and the tiny amount of time he was allowed to speak. If I’d been in his position it would have sent up some very serious warning signals to me. He dealt with it with humour…but I really do hope he knew what he was getting himself into or this could go badly wrong very very quickly.
If I’d been there, the question I was going to ask was how much each Sky game nets us in additional revenue once the lower ticket sales and concession sales are taken into account? I’d love to know that actual figure, because again the fixture list is being torn to pieces already. The number of Saturday 3pm games this side of Christmas is already tiny.
Having been supporting since 1974, and having time at Loftus Rd as a key part of my non-work life, I just hope that the cash from Sky is large enough to offset how disenfranchised the long suffering fan feels. |
I hear your worries and can see where you're coming from, I think, but perhaps both Nourry and Marti were/are control freaks in different ways. I remember Marti, in a rare unguarded moment post-match, ill-temperedly alluding to what he'd been telling the club he wanted/they needed in a tone that suggested he was exasperated - even though he was 'only' the manager, and, if the consensus is to be indulged, moreover, in fact only a coach in a top-down managed culture.
As to Julien, he was funny, but quite meh in what he said, and I'm not sure if he'd had the mic all night, he'd have enlightened us much further. It did seem symbolic when his mic wasn't working at the start and Nourry ended up handing him his! I hoped for a bit more from him than broad-brush comments about mentality, players buying into the culture, and resilience etc., even if according to one or two I shouldn't dare to be disappointed by these things. Whatever, a bit more about what specifically he wanted to innovate and his ambitions for the season wouldn't have gone amiss. On the subject of which, it told me a lot when Williams and De Souza answered the question about where they saw the club in 5 years by volunteering that, if they were still there saying the same things, that would be success. (The question wasn't about you, guys - it was about where you see the club headed! Obviously, the two of you don't look much further than the end of your noses!)
In sum, I didn't feel particularly disappointed or uplifted by any of it, though I do think there seems to be a lot more planning and thinking going on at a systemic - or 'synergystic' - level, and Nourry (which is hardly difficult) is clearly a much more serious, refined and intelligent CEO than Hoos - let alone a clown like Chairman Tony - could ever be.
Now it's over to 'the football side of the operation' (sigh!) to see what it can do, or it's all just words. Which it is anyway, I suppose. [Post edited 31 Jul 19:05]
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| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 19:20 - Jul 31 with 1028 views | Philothesuperhoop |
| Singing from the same hymn sheet – Fans Forum on 14:33 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
And also, if we do poorly, does the head coach still get the blame for that and get sacked, when we're going out of our way to make out how little he's got to do with it all and how collaborative it all is? |
Very good point! | | | |
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