| Another Brexit referendum 18:22 - Aug 5 with 1638 views | johnlangy |
When the question of whether there should be another referendum has been asked people have quite rightly said that it's too early. They said that Brexit needs to be given a reasonable length of time in order for us to come to understand if leave was the right decision or not. That is a perfectly fair point. It's also a fair question now to ask what is a reasonable length of time.
I made this point in another thread. If Labour go into the next GE on a platform of holding another Brexit ref the actual referendum won't take place until about 2032/33 because of the complexity involved. That will be sixteen years after the first referendum.
To my mind that is more than long enough.
And the result of the latest Brexit opinion poll means it's becoming a definite when not if another ref should be held.
Leave won the first ref with 52% of the vote. The latest poll said that just 29% of the people questioned said they'd vote leave again. That means that 44% of the people who voted leave have changed their mind if you extrapolate the poll result across the country.
I know it's only one poll but polls over the last three years have consistently shown a drop in support for leave and an increase in support for remain.
It's becoming impossible to ignore. What if the next poll shows 25% ? What if the next shows 22% and then maybe 20% or less ?
It's going to happen people. The only question is when. |  | | |  |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:54 - Aug 5 with 1146 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Has barely been 5 years yet. [Post edited 5 Aug 18:54]
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| Another Brexit referendum on 18:59 - Aug 5 with 1132 views | KeithHaynes |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:54 - Aug 5 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Has barely been 5 years yet. [Post edited 5 Aug 18:54]
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It seems to be going well. |  |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 19:15 - Aug 5 with 1116 views | SullutaCreturned |
Lets start with that poll, who carried it out and who commissioned it?
We see a lot of things said about polls and what they signify, we see polls for Welsh independence claim X amount want us to split from the Union but then, when you look into it, the poll has been weighted, they've removed don't knows and the whole thing is a sham.
So where can I find this poll result, have you a link? Is it the yougov poll?
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52410-nine-years-after-the-eu-referendum-
Then there is a lot more to consider, we need to meet the Copenhagen criteria and we also need to accept that rejoining means accepting a worse arrangement than the terms we had before.
Given the Eu's intransigence in the original negotiations and the shitfest that was the tory party who handled it all very badly wasn't it obvious that things wouldn't go very well? Still not as bad as some people made out and we have seen that the WEF at the bidding of Claus Schwab put out fake information to make it look even worse.
I'm happu to have a rejoining vote at some point and while we're at it, can we have another vote on devolution, that's been longer. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 19:19 - Aug 5 with 1113 views | KeithHaynes |
| Another Brexit referendum on 19:15 - Aug 5 by SullutaCreturned |
Lets start with that poll, who carried it out and who commissioned it?
We see a lot of things said about polls and what they signify, we see polls for Welsh independence claim X amount want us to split from the Union but then, when you look into it, the poll has been weighted, they've removed don't knows and the whole thing is a sham.
So where can I find this poll result, have you a link? Is it the yougov poll?
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52410-nine-years-after-the-eu-referendum-
Then there is a lot more to consider, we need to meet the Copenhagen criteria and we also need to accept that rejoining means accepting a worse arrangement than the terms we had before.
Given the Eu's intransigence in the original negotiations and the shitfest that was the tory party who handled it all very badly wasn't it obvious that things wouldn't go very well? Still not as bad as some people made out and we have seen that the WEF at the bidding of Claus Schwab put out fake information to make it look even worse.
I'm happu to have a rejoining vote at some point and while we're at it, can we have another vote on devolution, that's been longer. |
Everyone handled poorly. They really didn’t read the room. | |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 19:58 - Aug 5 with 1084 views | Whiterockin |
There will be no point after Farage picks up a lot of seats at the next GE, I'm not saying they will win a majority but they will pick up the most seats. |  | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 21:22 - Aug 5 with 1044 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 19:15 - Aug 5 by SullutaCreturned |
Lets start with that poll, who carried it out and who commissioned it?
We see a lot of things said about polls and what they signify, we see polls for Welsh independence claim X amount want us to split from the Union but then, when you look into it, the poll has been weighted, they've removed don't knows and the whole thing is a sham.
So where can I find this poll result, have you a link? Is it the yougov poll?
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52410-nine-years-after-the-eu-referendum-
Then there is a lot more to consider, we need to meet the Copenhagen criteria and we also need to accept that rejoining means accepting a worse arrangement than the terms we had before.
Given the Eu's intransigence in the original negotiations and the shitfest that was the tory party who handled it all very badly wasn't it obvious that things wouldn't go very well? Still not as bad as some people made out and we have seen that the WEF at the bidding of Claus Schwab put out fake information to make it look even worse.
I'm happu to have a rejoining vote at some point and while we're at it, can we have another vote on devolution, that's been longer. |
The people behind the poll makes it untrustworthy IMO.
I feel that it’s too soon for another vote but I think it’s time for politicians to start the conversation.
I don’t know about devolution. It’s seems to me that it should be improved and not replaced, otherwise we’re saying that wales is uniquely unable to govern its self in any way. [Post edited 5 Aug 22:53]
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| Another Brexit referendum on 21:49 - Aug 5 with 1021 views | majorraglan |
For me, I think talking about another referendum is too early. We’ve been out just about 5.5 years and we have to give it more time to see how things settle.
The Brexit deal served up by the Conservatives was in many ways poor. Boris lied about a number of things to get the deal over the line and Sunak and Starmer have come behind him and agreed some changes with the EU which some people are happy about while others aren’t. One of the big problems is that many people had different ideas as to what Brexit looked like and David Davis claims about it being an easy deal to strike were a nonsense.
The EU dug in and negotiations were very difficult. I think that was partly attributed to personalities involved at the time on both sides, but I’d say our politicians who were playing to a particular wing of press made negotiations much more difficult.
Given that there was more support for Brexit amongst the older generation, as time passes some of them will pass away and with the voting age being lowered to 16 that could significantly change the picture. What we can’t have is a vote every 10 or 15 years about joining or leaving the EU. We have to allow enough time to see how it pans out, if it’s a disaster enough time needs to be left so people can see the issues for themselves and learn lessons but not so much time that it causes irreparable damage than can never be repaired, if Brexit works well then we won’t need to worry.
Anyone who proposes a second referendum will likely enable British expats in the EU to vote (they were ineligible last time and I think Cameron will rue that decision) and that should add several percentage points towards rejoin, a younger electorate could also shift the vote. I know my kids would vote to rejoin and I know a bunch of older people who want to retire to the sun,
Immigration was the big issue for many voters, but if anything it’s got worse since Brexit. We’ve replaced Eastern Europeans with non EU citizens.
We could end up in a situation where the majority of people want to rejoin, but we have a Brexit government courtesy of Reform. We’ll know more in 2029. What we can’t have is regular flip flopping and chopping and changing. [Post edited 5 Aug 22:24]
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| Another Brexit referendum on 22:13 - Aug 5 with 1006 views | Whiterockin |
IMO a once in a generation vote means at least 20 years. | | | |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 22:54 - Aug 5 with 950 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 22:13 - Aug 5 by Whiterockin |
IMO a once in a generation vote means at least 20 years. |
I reckon that sounds about right but the build will need to start sooner. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 06:19 - Aug 6 with 849 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 22:54 - Aug 5 by Gwyn737 |
I reckon that sounds about right but the build will need to start sooner. |
The Welsh referendum vote has been a longer wait. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:07 - Aug 6 with 751 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
As I understand it EU does not charge tariffs on UK goods as listed as they are made in UK. There is friction a in trading because of paperwork. Euro workers often single young people who added energy have been replaced by Asians family people. Farage promoted Asian trade over Euro trade and that means immigration of Asians. The establishment has accepted the gig and envision a Anglo Asian powerhouse with Tata and the Chinese have cash to share around.
Brit Brexiteers are confused and do not know whether to double down or retreat. They have not bought the "but Brexit was not done properly ". They are still wondering why the NHS is not better with all that extra money.
They realise now in terms of culture it is better to be closer. to Europe than India Pakistan and Bangladesh. Their populations have gone up 4 x in my lifetime. The voters were duped and many know it. |  |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 15:13 - Aug 6 with 740 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Another Brexit referendum on 21:22 - Aug 5 by Gwyn737 |
The people behind the poll makes it untrustworthy IMO.
I feel that it’s too soon for another vote but I think it’s time for politicians to start the conversation.
I don’t know about devolution. It’s seems to me that it should be improved and not replaced, otherwise we’re saying that wales is uniquely unable to govern its self in any way. [Post edited 5 Aug 22:53]
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The devolution vote could include the choice to give the Senedd more powers as well as to keep it as it is or to do away with it.
When people talk about choice, all choices should be available. If the option to scrap devolution was there and lost then nobdoy could argue about it. When you are denied a choice people will always make claims.
It's not that Wales is uniquely unable, we're not unique, Westminster is proof of that, what a bunch of shysters Uk politicians are generally speaking! | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:33 - Aug 6 with 720 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:13 - Aug 6 by SullutaCreturned |
The devolution vote could include the choice to give the Senedd more powers as well as to keep it as it is or to do away with it.
When people talk about choice, all choices should be available. If the option to scrap devolution was there and lost then nobdoy could argue about it. When you are denied a choice people will always make claims.
It's not that Wales is uniquely unable, we're not unique, Westminster is proof of that, what a bunch of shysters Uk politicians are generally speaking! |
I don't think the Welsh public would be allowed to vote on giving the Senedd more powers, surely this would need to be decided by Westminster. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:53 - Aug 6 with 704 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:33 - Aug 6 by Whiterockin |
I don't think the Welsh public would be allowed to vote on giving the Senedd more powers, surely this would need to be decided by Westminster. |
You are right but what I meant was, if the Welsh people voted strongly that they wanted to not just keep theSenedd but also wanted more powers then Westminster should be obliged to follow the democratic mandate.
We should have the same powers as Scotland for example and have control of Welsh crown estate profits, It would benefit Wales but then, the Westminster goons would probably cut Welsh central funding and make us no better off.
My problem with the Senedd isn't that we can't govern ourselves, it's just that for 25 years We;sh labour have done a very bad job and if we are going to have a choice in the matter, then all choices should be available. It's the democratic way, do not deny a choice because the governing body is scared they'll have their gravy train taken away.
Maybe when labour are removed things will improve. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 16:11 - Aug 6 with 688 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:53 - Aug 6 by SullutaCreturned |
You are right but what I meant was, if the Welsh people voted strongly that they wanted to not just keep theSenedd but also wanted more powers then Westminster should be obliged to follow the democratic mandate.
We should have the same powers as Scotland for example and have control of Welsh crown estate profits, It would benefit Wales but then, the Westminster goons would probably cut Welsh central funding and make us no better off.
My problem with the Senedd isn't that we can't govern ourselves, it's just that for 25 years We;sh labour have done a very bad job and if we are going to have a choice in the matter, then all choices should be available. It's the democratic way, do not deny a choice because the governing body is scared they'll have their gravy train taken away.
Maybe when labour are removed things will improve. |
I don't disagree with any of that. I just think that Welsh Labour have done such a bad job of running Wales that many in Wales think we can't be trusted to run our own country. When the change comes next year personally I think the next Welsh Government will need to prove they can run Wales effectively if the Senedd is to survive. It's no good giving more powers if we abuse the powers we have. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:11 - Aug 6 with 655 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 16:11 - Aug 6 by Whiterockin |
I don't disagree with any of that. I just think that Welsh Labour have done such a bad job of running Wales that many in Wales think we can't be trusted to run our own country. When the change comes next year personally I think the next Welsh Government will need to prove they can run Wales effectively if the Senedd is to survive. It's no good giving more powers if we abuse the powers we have. |
Wales is a mature democracy and been picking it's representatives for over 200 years democratically.
There will be many English people in Wales promoting the idea the "Welsh people cannot be trusted to run their own business". I did not think I would here Welsh people saying this. Shameful. The Union jack wavers want to be assimilated for good.
The Labour party is running UK and the Senedd are one and the same. It is is pro Trade Unions. We can vote for whoever we want while we have the Senedd.
It turned my stomach to hear Eluned who come from the same stock as me tell the civil servant employees "come back to the office to work please or we will have to consider shutting the office" .
She should have said "come back into the office or we will be reviewing your terms. "
We want strong leadership and getting fit people to work getting things done. It is pretty evident to me since Covid-19 things have gone a bit downhill. Wales needs immigrant because we cannot get our own people to work.
The Senedd is not abusing its power. the 20 mph is a reasonable policy which can be justified but is massively unpopular. We could get rid of it while England takes it up. Barely anyone wants to invite more immigrant to Wales whatever their circumstances are. They are out of step with the people which they can put right in 2026.
Wales is in a fight for survival with the like of the abolishmentists around. I blame soft policies of Labour and Plaid.
If the Senedd is gone then abolish the FAW and WRU and forget our history and flag. We can simply become one more minority group behind Asian sub groups of Hindus Sikhs and Muslims and East European Catholics and orthodox.
Beware doing what comes easiest. We fought 1000 years to get the Senedd and we are not going to take Anglo advice in any form to abolish it.
If you are worldly you will understand there is hardly anywhere in the world a that loves it leaders. The same goes for Drakeford and Eluned and the bloke Gethyn who gave up i his job as leader for a apatry £200k gift which he decline to return. (pathetic). Make sure that guy is given the boot. [Post edited 6 Aug 17:17]
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| Another Brexit referendum on 17:18 - Aug 6 with 628 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:11 - Aug 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Wales is a mature democracy and been picking it's representatives for over 200 years democratically.
There will be many English people in Wales promoting the idea the "Welsh people cannot be trusted to run their own business". I did not think I would here Welsh people saying this. Shameful. The Union jack wavers want to be assimilated for good.
The Labour party is running UK and the Senedd are one and the same. It is is pro Trade Unions. We can vote for whoever we want while we have the Senedd.
It turned my stomach to hear Eluned who come from the same stock as me tell the civil servant employees "come back to the office to work please or we will have to consider shutting the office" .
She should have said "come back into the office or we will be reviewing your terms. "
We want strong leadership and getting fit people to work getting things done. It is pretty evident to me since Covid-19 things have gone a bit downhill. Wales needs immigrant because we cannot get our own people to work.
The Senedd is not abusing its power. the 20 mph is a reasonable policy which can be justified but is massively unpopular. We could get rid of it while England takes it up. Barely anyone wants to invite more immigrant to Wales whatever their circumstances are. They are out of step with the people which they can put right in 2026.
Wales is in a fight for survival with the like of the abolishmentists around. I blame soft policies of Labour and Plaid.
If the Senedd is gone then abolish the FAW and WRU and forget our history and flag. We can simply become one more minority group behind Asian sub groups of Hindus Sikhs and Muslims and East European Catholics and orthodox.
Beware doing what comes easiest. We fought 1000 years to get the Senedd and we are not going to take Anglo advice in any form to abolish it.
If you are worldly you will understand there is hardly anywhere in the world a that loves it leaders. The same goes for Drakeford and Eluned and the bloke Gethyn who gave up i his job as leader for a apatry £200k gift which he decline to return. (pathetic). Make sure that guy is given the boot. [Post edited 6 Aug 17:17]
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Yawn. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:25 - Aug 6 with 611 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:18 - Aug 6 by Whiterockin |
Yawn. |
Nothing more than i expect from you to be honest. Cymru am byth. We are not quitters and most of us do not sing "we know what we are" to English taunts.
Give you £2.50 to the Trust and you can go to bed knowing you have done you bit to save football in south west Wales. Bravo. | |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 17:29 - Aug 6 with 603 views | Dr_Winston |
| Another Brexit referendum on 16:11 - Aug 6 by Whiterockin |
I don't disagree with any of that. I just think that Welsh Labour have done such a bad job of running Wales that many in Wales think we can't be trusted to run our own country. When the change comes next year personally I think the next Welsh Government will need to prove they can run Wales effectively if the Senedd is to survive. It's no good giving more powers if we abuse the powers we have. |
Yep.
There are smaller nations out there than Wales who manage independently. No doubt about it. The problem with it is the comparison basically ends at size.
Wales is disproportionately dependent on both public sector employment and funding from Westminster. To survive as an Independent nation it would need a massively expanded private sector tax base. Does anyone seriously think that the likely Labour/Plaid Govt in charge of an Independent Wales would enact the kind of free market/business friendly reforms necessary to build one of those? We could become a Liechtenstein, Singapore or similar, but the idea of doing so would horrify those on the Left.
And that's without going into the reality that the same sort of Govt would want to dive headlong into being part of the EU, following all EU laws, adopting the EU currency and basically making becoming independent completely pointless in the first place. [Post edited 6 Aug 17:31]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 17:29 - Aug 6 with 599 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:25 - Aug 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Nothing more than i expect from you to be honest. Cymru am byth. We are not quitters and most of us do not sing "we know what we are" to English taunts.
Give you £2.50 to the Trust and you can go to bed knowing you have done you bit to save football in south west Wales. Bravo. |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 17:46 - Aug 6 with 565 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:29 - Aug 6 by Whiterockin |
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Welsh people should not be seen as quitters. "We tried to run our own affair but because we are weak and feeble we want to go back to Eton school boys like Boris or some indian bloke". No thanks. | |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 18:05 - Aug 6 with 545 views | Boundy |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:46 - Aug 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Welsh people should not be seen as quitters. "We tried to run our own affair but because we are weak and feeble we want to go back to Eton school boys like Boris or some indian bloke". No thanks. |
26 years of disgraceful mismanagement ,one of which has held back everyone and if you think that's worth keeping them you're the worst type of Welshman . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 17:45 - Aug 7 with 314 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Another Brexit referendum on 17:11 - Aug 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Wales is a mature democracy and been picking it's representatives for over 200 years democratically.
There will be many English people in Wales promoting the idea the "Welsh people cannot be trusted to run their own business". I did not think I would here Welsh people saying this. Shameful. The Union jack wavers want to be assimilated for good.
The Labour party is running UK and the Senedd are one and the same. It is is pro Trade Unions. We can vote for whoever we want while we have the Senedd.
It turned my stomach to hear Eluned who come from the same stock as me tell the civil servant employees "come back to the office to work please or we will have to consider shutting the office" .
She should have said "come back into the office or we will be reviewing your terms. "
We want strong leadership and getting fit people to work getting things done. It is pretty evident to me since Covid-19 things have gone a bit downhill. Wales needs immigrant because we cannot get our own people to work.
The Senedd is not abusing its power. the 20 mph is a reasonable policy which can be justified but is massively unpopular. We could get rid of it while England takes it up. Barely anyone wants to invite more immigrant to Wales whatever their circumstances are. They are out of step with the people which they can put right in 2026.
Wales is in a fight for survival with the like of the abolishmentists around. I blame soft policies of Labour and Plaid.
If the Senedd is gone then abolish the FAW and WRU and forget our history and flag. We can simply become one more minority group behind Asian sub groups of Hindus Sikhs and Muslims and East European Catholics and orthodox.
Beware doing what comes easiest. We fought 1000 years to get the Senedd and we are not going to take Anglo advice in any form to abolish it.
If you are worldly you will understand there is hardly anywhere in the world a that loves it leaders. The same goes for Drakeford and Eluned and the bloke Gethyn who gave up i his job as leader for a apatry £200k gift which he decline to return. (pathetic). Make sure that guy is given the boot. [Post edited 6 Aug 17:17]
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Are you Kilkenny in disguise? 1000 years ago the Welsh tribes were busy fighting amongst themselves to try and get power, Wales was a rural "small community" world with no towns but lots of infighting. The house of Gwynedd evertually came out on top but, and this is where your knowledge shows it's gaps, Wales was not a united country, it didn't fight anything, it fought amongst itself.
Did you mean "abolitionists"?
The FAW and WRU were here long before the Senedd, your claim they would be gone too is absurd.
Uk Labour and Welsh Labour are not the same, that is clear to see.
Nobody loves leaders who do a rubbish job.
I'm not sure worldy people get as upset as you do about football banter or "owning" the insults. Wirldy people are strong enough to laugh at such stupidity, or can ignore it and don't bleat at every little perceived slight. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 19:14 - Aug 7 with 265 views | majorraglan |
Lord Frost says Brexit has been a success!!! Mental, he’s one of only a few who believe that.
Regardless of one’s views on Brexit I don’t think many believe it’s been a success. Leavers are unhappy, Remainers are unhappy and the proportion of people who believe it was a mistake is increasing quickly. The arrangement we ended up with was poor.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/07/brexit-has-been-a-success-labour-are | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 20:08 - Aug 7 with 237 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:05 - Aug 6 by Boundy |
26 years of disgraceful mismanagement ,one of which has held back everyone and if you think that's worth keeping them you're the worst type of Welshman . |
What is it about wales that unlike the myriad of other countries of the same size are unable to govern ourselves?
Are we inherently stupid?
Look for reform for al means but abolishing all powers? Why? | | | |
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