| Another Brexit referendum 18:22 - Aug 5 with 1763 views | johnlangy |
When the question of whether there should be another referendum has been asked people have quite rightly said that it's too early. They said that Brexit needs to be given a reasonable length of time in order for us to come to understand if leave was the right decision or not. That is a perfectly fair point. It's also a fair question now to ask what is a reasonable length of time.
I made this point in another thread. If Labour go into the next GE on a platform of holding another Brexit ref the actual referendum won't take place until about 2032/33 because of the complexity involved. That will be sixteen years after the first referendum.
To my mind that is more than long enough.
And the result of the latest Brexit opinion poll means it's becoming a definite when not if another ref should be held.
Leave won the first ref with 52% of the vote. The latest poll said that just 29% of the people questioned said they'd vote leave again. That means that 44% of the people who voted leave have changed their mind if you extrapolate the poll result across the country.
I know it's only one poll but polls over the last three years have consistently shown a drop in support for leave and an increase in support for remain.
It's becoming impossible to ignore. What if the next poll shows 25% ? What if the next shows 22% and then maybe 20% or less ?
It's going to happen people. The only question is when. |  | | |  |
| Another Brexit referendum on 21:48 - Aug 7 with 568 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 20:08 - Aug 7 by Gwyn737 |
What is it about wales that unlike the myriad of other countries of the same size are unable to govern ourselves?
Are we inherently stupid?
Look for reform for al means but abolishing all powers? Why? |
If you feel like me that the Senedd has abused their power, spent our money on vanity projects and not benefited the whole of Wales. We have seen our quality of life fall in general and particularly behind the rest of the UK, essential services in particular are lagging far behind. This is why Welsh Labour will be removed from power after 26 years of incompetence. If the next lot whoever they are can show we can run our own affairs excellent, if not the Senedd will be gone. |  | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 22:49 - Aug 7 with 502 views | majorraglan |
| Another Brexit referendum on 20:08 - Aug 7 by Gwyn737 |
What is it about wales that unlike the myriad of other countries of the same size are unable to govern ourselves?
Are we inherently stupid?
Look for reform for al means but abolishing all powers? Why? |
I think trying to govern in an arrangement like we have in Wales is lot more complicated than in many other countries of a similar size.
Between 2010 and 2024 we had a Conservative government in London (who ultimately control the purse strings ) and a Labour government in Wales who were diametrically opposed to each other. Both were undermining each other and seeking to score points against the other to the detriment of the Welsh people.
Wales has deep rooted deprivation and is amongst the poorest parts of the U.K., we have more social deprivation and an older population and these are factors which require more money to address. Some will say Wales was getting a fair share of the resources, others will say that wasn’t the case and sight HS2 and the poverty etc.
If I am being honest, I think the money was a factor, but I also think the Welsh government have got some things very wrong. To prosper we need an excellent infrastructure and the lack of foresight in failing to build a relief road around the Brynglas tunnels is staggering. The 20mph speed limit is another example, it was a manifesto commitment and people should have taken that into account when they cast their vote, but the way it was introduced was very heavy handed and there was little scope for discretion or common sense. 20mph limits are here to stay, they are popping up all over the place in England, but they are more tailored to particular areas which is what we needed to do. The increase in the number of AM’s is also a poor decision.
There’s been some good work to address poverty and social issues, but they need to be considered with everything else that’s going on. I think Transport For Wales will eventually improve the railway passengers lot as the new trains come on stream, but that will take time against a background of long term under investment. The South Wales Metro will also make a big difference to some of the poorest valley communities and improve their connections with Cardiff, as the benefits start to come to fruition in the metro area out we need to see greater investment in South West Wales which will build on the Swansea Bay development project.
I don’t think some of the personalities involved like Vaughan Gething have helped the WG either. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 14:56 - Aug 8 with 425 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 21:48 - Aug 7 by Whiterockin |
If you feel like me that the Senedd has abused their power, spent our money on vanity projects and not benefited the whole of Wales. We have seen our quality of life fall in general and particularly behind the rest of the UK, essential services in particular are lagging far behind. This is why Welsh Labour will be removed from power after 26 years of incompetence. If the next lot whoever they are can show we can run our own affairs excellent, if not the Senedd will be gone. |
I absolutely agree that reform is needed.
I just don’t understand why people want abolition. That’s admitting that wales uniquely can’t govern. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:17 - Aug 8 with 412 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 14:56 - Aug 8 by Gwyn737 |
I absolutely agree that reform is needed.
I just don’t understand why people want abolition. That’s admitting that wales uniquely can’t govern. |
Gwyn I don't mean to sound disrespectful but you need to live in Wales to feel the incredible bitterness there is in Wales towards the Senedd. Basically they are not doing what the majority of Welsh people want. Basic services are virtually non existent and they are wasting a fortune on pointless pet projects. SE Wales is progressing while the rest of Wales is regressing. Health, public transport, infrastructure are all in decline and falling behind. As I have said before Welsh Labour will be out next year and the next Welsh Government will have one term to show that Wales can govern itself before the calls for abolition will be to loud to ignore. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:25 - Aug 8 with 392 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:17 - Aug 8 by Whiterockin |
Gwyn I don't mean to sound disrespectful but you need to live in Wales to feel the incredible bitterness there is in Wales towards the Senedd. Basically they are not doing what the majority of Welsh people want. Basic services are virtually non existent and they are wasting a fortune on pointless pet projects. SE Wales is progressing while the rest of Wales is regressing. Health, public transport, infrastructure are all in decline and falling behind. As I have said before Welsh Labour will be out next year and the next Welsh Government will have one term to show that Wales can govern itself before the calls for abolition will be to loud to ignore. |
I don’t doubt you’re right WR.
But my question remains - why are Welsh people uniquely incapable of making the senedd more successful? | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:36 - Aug 8 with 377 views | Dr_Winston |
Since 1999 everywhere outside the CF Postcode area has been treated as an afterthought by the so called "Welsh" Government. Things were fairer when the Welsh Office managed things. And that's not even going into their catalogue of failure in health, education, economic development, and basically everything else their dead hands touch.
They can burn the Senedd down and run things the old way again as far as I'm concerned. The idea that these people get even more power to feed the parasitic City state should horrify any Welsh person who doesn't live there. [Post edited 8 Aug 15:37]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 15:36 - Aug 8 with 377 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:25 - Aug 8 by Gwyn737 |
I don’t doubt you’re right WR.
But my question remains - why are Welsh people uniquely incapable of making the senedd more successful? |
Possibly because they put ideology above practicality and are more interested in self promotion than doing the best for us. All politicians do what is best for themselves, just in a more restricted environment it is highlighted. Some would say similar with recent leadership in Scotland. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:37 - Aug 8 with 374 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:36 - Aug 8 by Dr_Winston |
Since 1999 everywhere outside the CF Postcode area has been treated as an afterthought by the so called "Welsh" Government. Things were fairer when the Welsh Office managed things. And that's not even going into their catalogue of failure in health, education, economic development, and basically everything else their dead hands touch.
They can burn the Senedd down and run things the old way again as far as I'm concerned. The idea that these people get even more power to feed the parasitic City state should horrify any Welsh person who doesn't live there. [Post edited 8 Aug 15:37]
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Exactly. | | | |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 18:16 - Aug 8 with 321 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Another Brexit referendum on 15:25 - Aug 8 by Gwyn737 |
I don’t doubt you’re right WR.
But my question remains - why are Welsh people uniquely incapable of making the senedd more successful? |
There will be more reasons but for me one of the big reasons is that so many people have stopped voting while the Labour voters still turn out. We have a Welsh Labour government that has felt untouchable. As such they have done AND continue to do whatever they please.
They have beomce arrogant, Drakeford in particular seems convinced he knows better, he's behaving like the Uncle Joe type who has complete power and does whatever he wants. Drakeford has been critical of anybody who questions him and the soft, friendly persona has often turned into an angry old man who berates the oppo.
The 20 mph thing, not a bad idea but awful planning and implementation meant it cost millions more than it should have.
The PFI (not what the Senedd calls it but it's the same thing) used for the new Velindre hospital and the HOTV roads improvement will cost a lot more because of the interest and Wales will still be paying for it after Drakeford is dead.
The pulling of the M4 relief is bad for SW Wales, the cutting of A&E's and hospital beds is literally killing people.
The increase in the MS's numbers is a waste of more millions over the years ahead. Then Welsh Labour go and change the voting rules which is a blatant benefit to them as we know young people are far more likley to vote Labour.
It's not that Welsh people are incapable but the best of them are in Westminster, here in Wales we have gotten the dross and the change in selection criteria means we will have to now vote for the party and they will decide who represents us which to myself is an affront to representative democracy. Welsh Labour have entrenched their position but still look likely to be heavily rejected at the next vote, that is a sign of how bad they are when they tilt the playing field in their favour and still lose.
If by some muracle they win then Wales is knackered. Well all prts of Wales that aren't in the South East corner are, they are already mind.
I have communicated with Rhun Ap Iorwerth and he accepts the imbalance and he said he intends to change things there.
To be honest for the Senedd to survive we need a new party in power and I think they need to move the Senedd out of Cardiff, put it in Starat Florida in my book, somewhere totally neutral and start again. I know that would be expensive but Wales needs a reset. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:38 - Aug 8 with 297 views | Whiterockin |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:16 - Aug 8 by SullutaCreturned |
There will be more reasons but for me one of the big reasons is that so many people have stopped voting while the Labour voters still turn out. We have a Welsh Labour government that has felt untouchable. As such they have done AND continue to do whatever they please.
They have beomce arrogant, Drakeford in particular seems convinced he knows better, he's behaving like the Uncle Joe type who has complete power and does whatever he wants. Drakeford has been critical of anybody who questions him and the soft, friendly persona has often turned into an angry old man who berates the oppo.
The 20 mph thing, not a bad idea but awful planning and implementation meant it cost millions more than it should have.
The PFI (not what the Senedd calls it but it's the same thing) used for the new Velindre hospital and the HOTV roads improvement will cost a lot more because of the interest and Wales will still be paying for it after Drakeford is dead.
The pulling of the M4 relief is bad for SW Wales, the cutting of A&E's and hospital beds is literally killing people.
The increase in the MS's numbers is a waste of more millions over the years ahead. Then Welsh Labour go and change the voting rules which is a blatant benefit to them as we know young people are far more likley to vote Labour.
It's not that Welsh people are incapable but the best of them are in Westminster, here in Wales we have gotten the dross and the change in selection criteria means we will have to now vote for the party and they will decide who represents us which to myself is an affront to representative democracy. Welsh Labour have entrenched their position but still look likely to be heavily rejected at the next vote, that is a sign of how bad they are when they tilt the playing field in their favour and still lose.
If by some muracle they win then Wales is knackered. Well all prts of Wales that aren't in the South East corner are, they are already mind.
I have communicated with Rhun Ap Iorwerth and he accepts the imbalance and he said he intends to change things there.
To be honest for the Senedd to survive we need a new party in power and I think they need to move the Senedd out of Cardiff, put it in Starat Florida in my book, somewhere totally neutral and start again. I know that would be expensive but Wales needs a reset. |
If the Senedd is to remain put it in Aberystwyth, the whole outlook of the Welsh Government would change starting with the infrastructure, mobile networking and Internet access. Obviously other matters are of high importance like health and education, but take the AMs out of their comfort zone and things will change. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 19:55 - Aug 8 with 269 views | max936 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:16 - Aug 8 by SullutaCreturned |
There will be more reasons but for me one of the big reasons is that so many people have stopped voting while the Labour voters still turn out. We have a Welsh Labour government that has felt untouchable. As such they have done AND continue to do whatever they please.
They have beomce arrogant, Drakeford in particular seems convinced he knows better, he's behaving like the Uncle Joe type who has complete power and does whatever he wants. Drakeford has been critical of anybody who questions him and the soft, friendly persona has often turned into an angry old man who berates the oppo.
The 20 mph thing, not a bad idea but awful planning and implementation meant it cost millions more than it should have.
The PFI (not what the Senedd calls it but it's the same thing) used for the new Velindre hospital and the HOTV roads improvement will cost a lot more because of the interest and Wales will still be paying for it after Drakeford is dead.
The pulling of the M4 relief is bad for SW Wales, the cutting of A&E's and hospital beds is literally killing people.
The increase in the MS's numbers is a waste of more millions over the years ahead. Then Welsh Labour go and change the voting rules which is a blatant benefit to them as we know young people are far more likley to vote Labour.
It's not that Welsh people are incapable but the best of them are in Westminster, here in Wales we have gotten the dross and the change in selection criteria means we will have to now vote for the party and they will decide who represents us which to myself is an affront to representative democracy. Welsh Labour have entrenched their position but still look likely to be heavily rejected at the next vote, that is a sign of how bad they are when they tilt the playing field in their favour and still lose.
If by some muracle they win then Wales is knackered. Well all prts of Wales that aren't in the South East corner are, they are already mind.
I have communicated with Rhun Ap Iorwerth and he accepts the imbalance and he said he intends to change things there.
To be honest for the Senedd to survive we need a new party in power and I think they need to move the Senedd out of Cardiff, put it in Starat Florida in my book, somewhere totally neutral and start again. I know that would be expensive but Wales needs a reset. |
You only got to look at where the Senedd situated to realise that it was someone's vanity project. |  |
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| Another Brexit referendum on 20:59 - Aug 8 with 233 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:16 - Aug 8 by SullutaCreturned |
There will be more reasons but for me one of the big reasons is that so many people have stopped voting while the Labour voters still turn out. We have a Welsh Labour government that has felt untouchable. As such they have done AND continue to do whatever they please.
They have beomce arrogant, Drakeford in particular seems convinced he knows better, he's behaving like the Uncle Joe type who has complete power and does whatever he wants. Drakeford has been critical of anybody who questions him and the soft, friendly persona has often turned into an angry old man who berates the oppo.
The 20 mph thing, not a bad idea but awful planning and implementation meant it cost millions more than it should have.
The PFI (not what the Senedd calls it but it's the same thing) used for the new Velindre hospital and the HOTV roads improvement will cost a lot more because of the interest and Wales will still be paying for it after Drakeford is dead.
The pulling of the M4 relief is bad for SW Wales, the cutting of A&E's and hospital beds is literally killing people.
The increase in the MS's numbers is a waste of more millions over the years ahead. Then Welsh Labour go and change the voting rules which is a blatant benefit to them as we know young people are far more likley to vote Labour.
It's not that Welsh people are incapable but the best of them are in Westminster, here in Wales we have gotten the dross and the change in selection criteria means we will have to now vote for the party and they will decide who represents us which to myself is an affront to representative democracy. Welsh Labour have entrenched their position but still look likely to be heavily rejected at the next vote, that is a sign of how bad they are when they tilt the playing field in their favour and still lose.
If by some muracle they win then Wales is knackered. Well all prts of Wales that aren't in the South East corner are, they are already mind.
I have communicated with Rhun Ap Iorwerth and he accepts the imbalance and he said he intends to change things there.
To be honest for the Senedd to survive we need a new party in power and I think they need to move the Senedd out of Cardiff, put it in Starat Florida in my book, somewhere totally neutral and start again. I know that would be expensive but Wales needs a reset. |
That last paragraph makes perfect sense.
Change is the way forward. 👍 | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 22:19 - Aug 8 with 198 views | Scotia |
| Another Brexit referendum on 18:16 - Aug 8 by SullutaCreturned |
There will be more reasons but for me one of the big reasons is that so many people have stopped voting while the Labour voters still turn out. We have a Welsh Labour government that has felt untouchable. As such they have done AND continue to do whatever they please.
They have beomce arrogant, Drakeford in particular seems convinced he knows better, he's behaving like the Uncle Joe type who has complete power and does whatever he wants. Drakeford has been critical of anybody who questions him and the soft, friendly persona has often turned into an angry old man who berates the oppo.
The 20 mph thing, not a bad idea but awful planning and implementation meant it cost millions more than it should have.
The PFI (not what the Senedd calls it but it's the same thing) used for the new Velindre hospital and the HOTV roads improvement will cost a lot more because of the interest and Wales will still be paying for it after Drakeford is dead.
The pulling of the M4 relief is bad for SW Wales, the cutting of A&E's and hospital beds is literally killing people.
The increase in the MS's numbers is a waste of more millions over the years ahead. Then Welsh Labour go and change the voting rules which is a blatant benefit to them as we know young people are far more likley to vote Labour.
It's not that Welsh people are incapable but the best of them are in Westminster, here in Wales we have gotten the dross and the change in selection criteria means we will have to now vote for the party and they will decide who represents us which to myself is an affront to representative democracy. Welsh Labour have entrenched their position but still look likely to be heavily rejected at the next vote, that is a sign of how bad they are when they tilt the playing field in their favour and still lose.
If by some muracle they win then Wales is knackered. Well all prts of Wales that aren't in the South East corner are, they are already mind.
I have communicated with Rhun Ap Iorwerth and he accepts the imbalance and he said he intends to change things there.
To be honest for the Senedd to survive we need a new party in power and I think they need to move the Senedd out of Cardiff, put it in Starat Florida in my book, somewhere totally neutral and start again. I know that would be expensive but Wales needs a reset. |
An excellent post. Really excellent.
It sums up the entire problem with Wales, the Senedd and the apathy the population. If anyone needs to see it in action get out of a train in Cardiff central stroll around for an hour, get back on the train and do the same in Swansea. Just look at the difference.
We desperately need political change, Drakeford was a disaster, but a disaster that won a majority because Wales votes Labour. That'll change next time, Labour will be decimated, my biggest fear is they'll be replaced by Reform. | | | |
| Another Brexit referendum on 10:55 - Aug 9 with 54 views | union_jack |
| Another Brexit referendum on 22:19 - Aug 8 by Scotia |
An excellent post. Really excellent.
It sums up the entire problem with Wales, the Senedd and the apathy the population. If anyone needs to see it in action get out of a train in Cardiff central stroll around for an hour, get back on the train and do the same in Swansea. Just look at the difference.
We desperately need political change, Drakeford was a disaster, but a disaster that won a majority because Wales votes Labour. That'll change next time, Labour will be decimated, my biggest fear is they'll be replaced by Reform. |
Getting to the right balance in politics doesn’t happen overnight. If one party becomes more and more extreme it needs an equally opposing party to start the equilibrium process. That’s what Reform will do, bring the left back to a more central position and in Wales especially, get a party that looks after the whole of Wales and concentrate on policies that put us in the right light and not make us look like blithering idiots. |  |
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