| Survey results as reported in the Times 13:28 - Aug 6 with 7034 views | saint901 |
Apparently some 4% of immigrants are here "illegally" or have arrived by informal means (a boat across the channel).
Apparently some 47% of voters think that illegal immigrants outnumber those encouraged to come here to contribute to our society and coffers.
Apparently this rises to over 70% amongst those voters who would support Reform or have sympathies with organisations designated as being on the far right.
A worrying demonstration of the power of those with a voice to distort and corrupt.
The selective messages being delivered by all politicians in which facts are ignored or abused or quoted out of context is leading to a situation in which it's becoming not a question of what to believe but rather a choice to disbelieve everything we are told.
If we then have a situation in which there are no hard facts to rely upon, the ground is ripe for any old nonsense to be planted and grow into today's chosen conspiracy.
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| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:23 - Oct 7 with 669 views | 1885_SFC |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 12:48 - Oct 7 by solent_toffee |
The One in, One out is utter nonsense and is up there with the Rwanda for a massive waste of time and money.
I don’t understand how the Smash the Gangs is proving to be so difficult apart from the clear lack of communication and coordination across Europe with other countries.
I have a colleague and a friend who came through the boat route, there were no direct flights from his part of Afghanistan. Members of his family had already been killed and his dad (who has since died) paid smugglers to get him out safely. He was 18 and had no idea where he was going. It took four months to get here and he was passed from smuggler to smuggler en route across several countries staying in some of them for weeks on end. He had no idea that he would end up in the UK and several people that he travelled with were left in Bosnia, Greece, Germany and France. I don’t know how it works, but that’s what the gangs did.
People like him should be spoken to by the authorities to hear about his experience, get intel on what is happening but he has never been approached. They should be throwing the kitchen sink at stopping the gangs, never mind stopping the boats. |
Your second paragraph is the only real solution to the problem.
I think most European countries are too concerned & distracted by protecting their own individual borders rather than getting together & forming a large EU and UK funded organisation (similar to Interpol, as it were) who's sole task is to hunt down the gangs, bring them to court & stop their racketeering.
Easier said than done of course, but it's surely the only option? The cost would be enormous, but I would imagine that, shared between them, the cost would be a lot less to each country than it currently is. |  |
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| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:30 - Oct 7 with 654 views | solent_toffee |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:23 - Oct 7 by 1885_SFC |
Your second paragraph is the only real solution to the problem.
I think most European countries are too concerned & distracted by protecting their own individual borders rather than getting together & forming a large EU and UK funded organisation (similar to Interpol, as it were) who's sole task is to hunt down the gangs, bring them to court & stop their racketeering.
Easier said than done of course, but it's surely the only option? The cost would be enormous, but I would imagine that, shared between them, the cost would be a lot less to each country than it currently is. |
From what my colleague told me the refugee camp ‘helpers’ in countries such as Greece and Turkey are working for the gangs. It’s very blatant and as you say it needs a proper team of intel to get on top of it.
People are still going to escape their situations though, it’s perfectly normal to escape persecution, violence etc. Again it should be an international solution not everyone trying to leave it to everyone else and creating an inhumane mess. | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 20:54 - Oct 7 with 561 views | kingolaf |
The illegals cost this country a fortune. | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 07:50 - Oct 8 with 493 views | Berber |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 14:10 - Aug 6 by yateleysaint |
No human is illegal. |
So does that mean there is no illegal immigration? Because, if there is, there has to be illegal immigrants. Just saying. |  |
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| Survey results as reported in the Times on 10:07 - Oct 8 with 466 views | saint901 |
There can be no real "solution" unless the root causes for people seeking to come to the UK etc are removed.
Some of those causes are specific to their country of origin. These might be hunger, corruption, political or religious oppression. There are probably very limited things that the "destination countries" - i.e. UK and Europe can do. Equally these destination countries are not helping themselves by reducing the amount of financial and humanitarian aid that is provided.
Some are the result of political meddling by the Western countries in particular. It suits the US and many European countries to fight proxy wars far from their borders but to deny sanctuary to people displaced by those wars.
Most of the EU countries are signed up to the ECHR (which is of course very much based on UK legislation developed after the second war in order to deal with millions of refugees within Europe). That sign up allows them to claim to be powerless in preventing migrants moving into and through their own country.
The "criminal" activity we see is however mainly from those people smugglers charging huge sums to get people to and around Europe. There is a real need for a European police campaign to limit these activities and to use political means to put pressure on some countries who allow these crooks such access.
This is not a single country issue and the claims of the far right in the UK that this is a problem caused by weak (usually leftist) political parties and that they could "solve" it within days of winning an election are all fairy tales swallowed by the gullible. | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 11:21 - Oct 8 with 427 views | solent_toffee |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 07:50 - Oct 8 by Berber |
So does that mean there is no illegal immigration? Because, if there is, there has to be illegal immigrants. Just saying. |
There is plenty of ‘illegal’ immigration, people who have entered the country on various visas and then overstayed, often working crappy cash in hand jobs such as agricultural roles during harvesting times that farmers would be phucked without.
The ‘illegals’ that people are losing their minds about are technically not illegal as they have have an ongoing asylum case which is a legal process. | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:15 - Oct 8 with 370 views | Ninja9 |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 11:21 - Oct 8 by solent_toffee |
There is plenty of ‘illegal’ immigration, people who have entered the country on various visas and then overstayed, often working crappy cash in hand jobs such as agricultural roles during harvesting times that farmers would be phucked without.
The ‘illegals’ that people are losing their minds about are technically not illegal as they have have an ongoing asylum case which is a legal process. |
So let me get this right .
In your deluded Leftie mind all the invaders that enter the country by crossing the channel
in rubber boats are not illegal .
You need to give your head a wobble . | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 15:09 - Oct 8 with 316 views | Heisenberg |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:15 - Oct 8 by Ninja9 |
So let me get this right .
In your deluded Leftie mind all the invaders that enter the country by crossing the channel
in rubber boats are not illegal .
You need to give your head a wobble . |
Rather than insulting people try reading the post again. If not look it up and research what is and isn’t an illegal immigrant. |  |
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| Survey results as reported in the Times on 15:21 - Oct 8 with 298 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:15 - Oct 8 by Ninja9 |
So let me get this right .
In your deluded Leftie mind all the invaders that enter the country by crossing the channel
in rubber boats are not illegal .
You need to give your head a wobble . |
It is illegal to use a boat to enter without a valid passport / visa, but once here they are detained for entering illegally and then they are protected by international law whilst their application is considered. At that stage, they are not "illegal", but allowed to remain legally until their status has been determined (application accepted or denied).
Once / if denied, they are here illegally and need to leave. |  |
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| Survey results as reported in the Times on 09:24 - Oct 9 with 170 views | solent_toffee |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:15 - Oct 8 by Ninja9 |
So let me get this right .
In your deluded Leftie mind all the invaders that enter the country by crossing the channel
in rubber boats are not illegal .
You need to give your head a wobble . |
My head is fine, thanks. As others have said once people have started an asylum claim, they start a legal process. | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 09:57 - Oct 9 with 145 views | SalisburySaint |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 15:09 - Oct 8 by Heisenberg |
Rather than insulting people try reading the post again. If not look it up and research what is and isn’t an illegal immigrant. |
Spot on too many people are ignorant of the facts, I know some of my mates are,and refuse to research the information readily availably
Some obviously because they believe what Farage says and it doesn’t suit their agenda [Post edited 9 Oct 11:00]
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| Survey results as reported in the Times on 10:14 - Oct 9 with 120 views | franniesTache |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 15:21 - Oct 8 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
It is illegal to use a boat to enter without a valid passport / visa, but once here they are detained for entering illegally and then they are protected by international law whilst their application is considered. At that stage, they are not "illegal", but allowed to remain legally until their status has been determined (application accepted or denied).
Once / if denied, they are here illegally and need to leave. |
That is exactly right, i do find it weird how people are so badly informed on this though.
People seem to get angry and scream about what is effectively international and therefore British law as if it's some sort of political stance.
I guess it comes down to the amount of propaganda that's fed in this area and the fact that obfuscating the truth is a useful tool to manipulate people |  | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 11:05 - Oct 9 with 86 views | solent_toffee |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 10:14 - Oct 9 by franniesTache |
That is exactly right, i do find it weird how people are so badly informed on this though.
People seem to get angry and scream about what is effectively international and therefore British law as if it's some sort of political stance.
I guess it comes down to the amount of propaganda that's fed in this area and the fact that obfuscating the truth is a useful tool to manipulate people |
On a similar note, I saw Yaxley Lennon post online having a go at the establishment for his upcoming court appearance. Whilst rallying his troops he’s cry arsing about being picked on for not having a jury at the magistrates court and having his case being heard by a judge.
Apparently this is a massive stitch up.
But’s simply the law. Magistrates = Judge; Crown Court = Jury.
I’m fairly sure that he knows this, but looking at the comments people have fallen for it. | | | |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 13:45 - Oct 9 with 13 views | franniesTache |
| Survey results as reported in the Times on 11:05 - Oct 9 by solent_toffee |
On a similar note, I saw Yaxley Lennon post online having a go at the establishment for his upcoming court appearance. Whilst rallying his troops he’s cry arsing about being picked on for not having a jury at the magistrates court and having his case being heard by a judge.
Apparently this is a massive stitch up.
But’s simply the law. Magistrates = Judge; Crown Court = Jury.
I’m fairly sure that he knows this, but looking at the comments people have fallen for it. |
To be honest i don't really blame people for believing this stuff, most people don't have the inclination or time to read up on international or national law (i only did because of work) and tend to trust what they're told.
In fact it was only fairly recently i learned that people who've migrated to the UK have to pay an extra "top up" for the NHS and it's not actually covered for free in their taxes, despite what the likes of Farage etc. tell you.
The people i blame are the grifters, liars and often outright evil people who DO know this but use it to stoke division and damage our country.
The elites like public school ex city banker Farage absolutely know what the laws of this country and the internaional communties are, but choose instead to hide facts. | | | |
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