| Contactless debit cards 15:17 - Sep 6 with 4682 views | BklynRanger |
As if the postings on here couldn't get more interesting, has anyone of a certain age/ludite inclination noticed their ability to use their actual physical debit card getting phased out?
Mine seemed to be required to be inserted every 3 goes or so for the last few months, and now it's stopped working contactlessly altogether.
Personally I don't want to get my phone out all the time, usually twice because I hadn't stuck my thumb on it properly the first time.
If there is a final straw this may well be it for me. What happens after the final straw is anyone's guess. (Possibly nothing). [Post edited 6 Sep 15:21]
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| Contactless debit cards on 08:10 - Sep 7 with 1768 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:02 - Sep 7 by hubble |
Don't want to get all political, but basically we lose cash at our peril. I suppose it might be Canute-like to try to stem the tide of the cashless, top-down controlled, surveilled society that we seem to be heading for like lemmings, but I would encourage people to keep using cash. |
I might be missing something, but why? Where is the peril?
I get that for some individuals it’s easier to budget with cash but it’s a massive hassle for businesses and while there’s a direct cost to card transactions there’s an indirect one to sorting cash out at the end of the day/week. Not helped by banks being open from 11:00-11:03 Monday-Wednesday. |  | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:37 - Sep 7 with 1672 views | hubble |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:10 - Sep 7 by Watford_Ranger |
I might be missing something, but why? Where is the peril?
I get that for some individuals it’s easier to budget with cash but it’s a massive hassle for businesses and while there’s a direct cost to card transactions there’s an indirect one to sorting cash out at the end of the day/week. Not helped by banks being open from 11:00-11:03 Monday-Wednesday. |
Well it's quite obvious Watford - to me anyway: cash transactions are anonymous. Cashless transactions are not.
If you don't mind someone/anyone/governments/agencies/whoever knowing everything about your financial transactions then that's fine, but I do. It's absolutely none of their business as far as I'm concerned. And in these days of near zero privacy, cash remains one of the very last tools we have to retain a semblance of personal sovereignty. Cash requires no electricity to process. There is no fee in the transaction (there still is with some cashless transactions). And so on.
I could also get into the fact that the ever-increasing reliance on your phone is not just dangerous (IMO) for your personal security and privacy, but it's also bad for your health. People are addicted to their phones, to the extent that they cannot live without them. Which means you are perpetually tied into that system. And the impact on kids is terrible. ADHD and so many other mental health issue are skyrocketing. This is all interrelated.
So yeah, for me, we need to keep using cash for our own good. [Post edited 7 Sep 8:38]
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| Contactless debit cards on 08:50 - Sep 7 with 1656 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:37 - Sep 7 by hubble |
Well it's quite obvious Watford - to me anyway: cash transactions are anonymous. Cashless transactions are not.
If you don't mind someone/anyone/governments/agencies/whoever knowing everything about your financial transactions then that's fine, but I do. It's absolutely none of their business as far as I'm concerned. And in these days of near zero privacy, cash remains one of the very last tools we have to retain a semblance of personal sovereignty. Cash requires no electricity to process. There is no fee in the transaction (there still is with some cashless transactions). And so on.
I could also get into the fact that the ever-increasing reliance on your phone is not just dangerous (IMO) for your personal security and privacy, but it's also bad for your health. People are addicted to their phones, to the extent that they cannot live without them. Which means you are perpetually tied into that system. And the impact on kids is terrible. ADHD and so many other mental health issue are skyrocketing. This is all interrelated.
So yeah, for me, we need to keep using cash for our own good. [Post edited 7 Sep 8:38]
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Ok, but surely the vast majority of spend is cashless unless you go to considerable effort to avoid it being so. Mortgage/rent, bills, holidays and other big purchases, your QPR tickets, public transport. These probably can be arranged to be done with cash but 99% of ardent cash users are probably not doing so.
Fair enough if people are concerned then each to their own and places that do take cash have a point of difference to appeal to that crowd. I just don’t really see it. | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 09:31 - Sep 7 with 1588 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:02 - Sep 7 by hubble |
Don't want to get all political, but basically we lose cash at our peril. I suppose it might be Canute-like to try to stem the tide of the cashless, top-down controlled, surveilled society that we seem to be heading for like lemmings, but I would encourage people to keep using cash. |
Absolutely!
Covid very much the start of the end for cash and expediting even faster, the Orwellian dystopia he tried to advise us against.
I still think some of us of a certain age will revert to bartering where ever we can (see further Argentina circa 2002). |  |
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| Contactless debit cards on 10:00 - Sep 7 with 1521 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:10 - Sep 7 by Watford_Ranger |
I might be missing something, but why? Where is the peril?
I get that for some individuals it’s easier to budget with cash but it’s a massive hassle for businesses and while there’s a direct cost to card transactions there’s an indirect one to sorting cash out at the end of the day/week. Not helped by banks being open from 11:00-11:03 Monday-Wednesday. |
You can, rightly or wrongly, have all your assets digitally frozen and locked out of your accounts. That isn't possible with cash. Having seen the after affects of DOGE capturing vast quantities of sensitive digital information, and how that information has been subsequently used, I would be very wary of getting too locked into digital life. The old caveat of "if you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about" stopped being relevant 20 years ago. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Contactless debit cards on 11:05 - Sep 7 with 1422 views | colinallcars |
They make it v hard to survive without a mobile.
I had to have a procedure at hospital a while ago and you have to have an escort in case you feel wobbly going home. The wife was ill, so a mate came.
The nurse asked where my escort was and I said downstairs in the coffee shop. She said OK and asked me for his mobile number. I said he doesn't have a mobile. You could have heard a pin drop !
The nurse and receptionist gaped at me and 3 waiting patients actually looked up from their phones.
And yet, if you say folk may have to carry an ID card one day, they thow a fit. |  | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 11:12 - Sep 7 with 1401 views | BklynRanger |
| Contactless debit cards on 07:25 - Sep 7 by PlanetHonneywood |
I think you're right. When precious metals trade at record levels in a backdrop of huge sovereign and personal debt globally, you know the proverbial is about to hit the fan.
That's before we consider how gold has and maybe still is, massively overtraded!
When it all went south in 2008, that was a chance, possibly the last chance, to reset the lot. Instead, we took money from the masses and looked to pay banker bonuses first, and just kicked the can down the road. |
I was in Jakarta over Xmas. The hotel manager was this hard working early 30s guy, quite ambitious, still lived with his parents, as a lot of people do in Asian cities these days. He had an accountancy business outside the hotel and a couple of people working for him.
Anyway he said he was putting most of his money from all that hard work into gold. Said it was the safest and most lucrative option these days.
Seems it's starting to kick off in Jakarta now based on persistent inequality, cost of living etc, and I've thought of him often this year when I hear of the price of gold going ever higher - seems like he was bang on. | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 11:16 - Sep 7 with 1389 views | colinallcars |
| Contactless debit cards on 11:12 - Sep 7 by BklynRanger |
I was in Jakarta over Xmas. The hotel manager was this hard working early 30s guy, quite ambitious, still lived with his parents, as a lot of people do in Asian cities these days. He had an accountancy business outside the hotel and a couple of people working for him.
Anyway he said he was putting most of his money from all that hard work into gold. Said it was the safest and most lucrative option these days.
Seems it's starting to kick off in Jakarta now based on persistent inequality, cost of living etc, and I've thought of him often this year when I hear of the price of gold going ever higher - seems like he was bang on. |
I remember when Churchill took us off the gold standard, I was just a kid of course… | | | |
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| Contactless debit cards on 12:00 - Sep 7 with 1313 views | derbyhoop |
It's too easy to spend using contact less.if the budget is tight, get cash out. Once it's gone you can't spend any more. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Contactless debit cards on 15:01 - Sep 7 with 1156 views | enfieldargh |
A geezer I know down the pub used to be a bank robber, he’s having terrible trouble getting rid all those notes nobody wants them especially behind the bar who never have change for £50 notes
He reckons that Bitcoin has been invented cos him and his mates knocked off all the folding. |  |
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| Contactless debit cards on 15:16 - Sep 7 with 1141 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Contactless debit cards on 15:01 - Sep 7 by enfieldargh |
A geezer I know down the pub used to be a bank robber, he’s having terrible trouble getting rid all those notes nobody wants them especially behind the bar who never have change for £50 notes
He reckons that Bitcoin has been invented cos him and his mates knocked off all the folding. |
It isn't Joe Strummer's dad is it? |  | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 16:06 - Sep 7 with 1081 views | qpr1976 |
| Contactless debit cards on 11:12 - Sep 7 by BklynRanger |
I was in Jakarta over Xmas. The hotel manager was this hard working early 30s guy, quite ambitious, still lived with his parents, as a lot of people do in Asian cities these days. He had an accountancy business outside the hotel and a couple of people working for him.
Anyway he said he was putting most of his money from all that hard work into gold. Said it was the safest and most lucrative option these days.
Seems it's starting to kick off in Jakarta now based on persistent inequality, cost of living etc, and I've thought of him often this year when I hear of the price of gold going ever higher - seems like he was bang on. |
Gordon Brown has much to answer for.
And try telling all those Post Office people “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear !” | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 13:08 - Sep 8 with 810 views | loftupper |
| Contactless debit cards on 12:00 - Sep 7 by derbyhoop |
It's too easy to spend using contact less.if the budget is tight, get cash out. Once it's gone you can't spend any more. |
There are apps to allow for spend limits to manage your money in the same way as you would with cash, tucking some away etc.
I think if we are talking Orwellian nightmares this is probably one at the lower end to worry about, as someone else pointed out most of our larger transactions are already digital. And I’m sure if it did come to pass, an underground economy would soon appear to handle all the transactions you don’t want to be recorded.
Given the rise of hate and anger fueled politics, plus the little problem of climate change. I reckon using contactless cards and phones is going to prove to be the least of our worries over the next few years | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 13:33 - Sep 8 with 765 views | slmrstid |
One of the things that gets me when I see people on the internet ranting about their ability to lose cash and not being able to stick a tenner in the grandkids Christmas cards because the Government will want to tax it (showing they have no idea about tax whatsoever in the process), is they think cash is completely free for businesses to use and therefore they must accept it.
Its not, banks will charge just as much for processing cash deposits, it costs to secure it, it costs to insure it as and when it is left in tills overnight.
There's a guy I know in Leicester who owns a trophy shop who is a bit like this, then he had his shop broken into about eighteen months ago and lost £1,300 when the thieves made off with the till. All lost as he hadn't insured it. He also proudly voted Brexit then expressed regret to me after when he learned that the supplies he bought from the Netherlands were now much more expensive to acquire.
(Not wanting to start that argument! But this is the type of person we're talking here, easily led by rubbish they read on the internet then learn through bitter experience that its perhaps not quite what they thought). |  | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 13:51 - Sep 8 with 735 views | loftupper |
| Contactless debit cards on 11:05 - Sep 7 by colinallcars |
They make it v hard to survive without a mobile.
I had to have a procedure at hospital a while ago and you have to have an escort in case you feel wobbly going home. The wife was ill, so a mate came.
The nurse asked where my escort was and I said downstairs in the coffee shop. She said OK and asked me for his mobile number. I said he doesn't have a mobile. You could have heard a pin drop !
The nurse and receptionist gaped at me and 3 waiting patients actually looked up from their phones.
And yet, if you say folk may have to carry an ID card one day, they thow a fit. |
I presume one of the nurses had to go down and fetch him when you were finished then? Bet they were well chuffed about that :D | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 13:59 - Sep 8 with 707 views | QPerthR |
| Contactless debit cards on 08:02 - Sep 7 by hubble |
Don't want to get all political, but basically we lose cash at our peril. I suppose it might be Canute-like to try to stem the tide of the cashless, top-down controlled, surveilled society that we seem to be heading for like lemmings, but I would encourage people to keep using cash. |
Yeah I’m guilty of not carrying a wallet because I don’t use cash , I’ve seen that breakdown of where a hundred pound dollar goes digitally compared to cash .. It’s frightening how much control the banks have | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 15:09 - Sep 8 with 604 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Contactless debit cards on 16:06 - Sep 7 by qpr1976 |
Gordon Brown has much to answer for.
And try telling all those Post Office people “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear !” |
No fan of Brown, but I've been told by a lot of economist types that this myth was over egged and over simplified so it could be turned into a political cosh to bash him with.
I always take the view that you can't compare sovereign economics with household budgets and those that do are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. | | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 15:23 - Sep 8 with 558 views | colinallcars |
| Contactless debit cards on 15:09 - Sep 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
No fan of Brown, but I've been told by a lot of economist types that this myth was over egged and over simplified so it could be turned into a political cosh to bash him with.
I always take the view that you can't compare sovereign economics with household budgets and those that do are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. |
I quite agree - Brown was not to blame for the 2008 banking crash.
Compared to today's wonderful politicians, he's a giant.
And of course, he was a boy of the manse.
I'd put him charge this afternoon…
Ps with Andy Burnham as deputy. [Post edited 8 Sep 15:37]
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| Contactless debit cards on 15:56 - Sep 8 with 513 views | kensalriser |
Brown was an intellectual titan and paragon of human decency compared to what we've had since. Selling the gold looked like a good decision at the time - the gold price had been moribund for for ages and gold produces no yield. It is, as Baz alludes, used as a crude and disingenous political cosh.
https://web.archive.org/web/20250307203238/ https://www.ft.com/content/5788dbac-7680-11e0-b05b-00144feabdc0
Esox puts his finger on the risks of top down control by referencing the huge, unprecedented US governmental data theft by an unaccountable billionnaire. Governments should be accountable under democratic control but we are now seeing what happens when they are captured by true bad actors and malign vested interests. The same fate awaits the UK if people continue to be fooled by spivs and charlatans spouting hate. |  |
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| Contactless debit cards on 16:33 - Sep 8 with 460 views | ted_hendrix |
Cash smells nice a big wedge of folding brand new £20 or £50 notes smells pretty damned good. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Contactless debit cards on 16:43 - Sep 8 with 426 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Contactless debit cards on 16:33 - Sep 8 by ted_hendrix |
Cash smells nice a big wedge of folding brand new £20 or £50 notes smells pretty damned good. |
Funny that you say you enjoy the cash smell when notes are folded.
A lot of people look like they are enjoying the smell when they are are rolled up. [Post edited 8 Sep 16:47]
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| Contactless debit cards on 19:57 - Sep 8 with 256 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Contactless debit cards on 15:09 - Sep 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
No fan of Brown, but I've been told by a lot of economist types that this myth was over egged and over simplified so it could be turned into a political cosh to bash him with.
I always take the view that you can't compare sovereign economics with household budgets and those that do are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. |
I'm not sure I agree with your last paragraph, Barry.
If people don't have money or those that do don't have confidence in the macroeconomic climate, they either can't spend or won't spend. That ultimately hits government income in lower taxes and given how much governments are having to borrow just to service debts, then so soon after 2008/Covid and funding Ukraine, I'd suggest right now, the states of sovereign and personal debts are inexorably linked.
See France currently. Next up? GB, US....either way, it looks like it is happening: the can has no more road to be kicked down.
As for Brown selling the gold: given how volatile economic history is, when it's cheap, you buy. Although I suspect if he'd look to buy back then he'd have been berated. [Post edited 8 Sep 20:10]
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| Contactless debit cards on 23:03 - Sep 8 with 113 views | Juzzie |
Entering my late 50’s and and lead a fairly vanilla life so if someone in government wants to know what I’m buying at Sainsbury’s or Amazon or how much I’m spending on my mortgage, utility bills, car insurance etc then that’s 10 minutes of their life they won’t get back. |  | | |
| Contactless debit cards on 23:31 - Sep 8 with 82 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Contactless debit cards on 19:57 - Sep 8 by PlanetHonneywood |
I'm not sure I agree with your last paragraph, Barry.
If people don't have money or those that do don't have confidence in the macroeconomic climate, they either can't spend or won't spend. That ultimately hits government income in lower taxes and given how much governments are having to borrow just to service debts, then so soon after 2008/Covid and funding Ukraine, I'd suggest right now, the states of sovereign and personal debts are inexorably linked.
See France currently. Next up? GB, US....either way, it looks like it is happening: the can has no more road to be kicked down.
As for Brown selling the gold: given how volatile economic history is, when it's cheap, you buy. Although I suspect if he'd look to buy back then he'd have been berated. [Post edited 8 Sep 20:10]
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Yeah, they aren't the same thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/13/why-government-debt-is- | | | |
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