| Linford Christie Stadium. 18:04 - Aug 9 with 139876 views | ted_hendrix |
That's where our new ground will be. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:49 - Oct 29 with 3521 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:45 - Oct 29 by Phildo |
then the local elected representatives ought to propose something along those lines |
They are / have.
They want more community assets. A set of empty penthouses owned by Malaysians isn't a community asset. |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:50 - Oct 29 with 3508 views | PinnerPaul |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:44 - Oct 29 by LythamR |
And i think the Councils view is that not only can fans get involved but they already are involved as stakeholders who have been funding the club in the borough for 100 years and continue to do so on a weekly basis and as such should not simply be dismissed because we are not multi millionaires |
TBF they are very good points and nice of you to articulate the council's thoughts.
They didn't actually say that though did they, just said 'fan based ownership' and threw in the word 'overseas' for good measure!
Final point, you use the word 'millionaire' as an insult, much like H & F - how is the +£1M MONTHLY loss supposed to be funded, if not by 'millionaires'??????? |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:56 - Oct 29 with 3479 views | nadera78 |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 23:40 - Oct 28 by GloryHunter |
Doesn't actually explain how they would plan to do it. Are there any further links? |
No, nothing else that I've seen. It's interesting in that it's a speculative document based upon the research used by the architects who drew up Briatore's ridiculous plans ten years ago. You would have to presume they've approached the club (why would they not?) and they're not interested. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:02 - Oct 29 with 3432 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Gonna leave this subject because i'm boring myself and others.
But before I do, beware Billionaires who look like they do are doing something for no profit (building a stadium). Of course they want something, and the only sellable asset we have other than the players is the land the ground is on.
They have spent billions on us. They are going to want it back, and the best way to do this other than promotion and a long stint in the Prem is the sale of prime West London land in exchange for cheap Motorway land (see Reading).
I hope this prophecy is wrong, but if I was going to do this, I would start a argument to create a justification for a out of borough move on the basis of obstinance from the council. [Post edited 29 Oct 2021 16:07]
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:06 - Oct 29 with 3393 views | LongsufferingR |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:49 - Oct 29 by BazzaInTheLoft |
They are / have.
They want more community assets. A set of empty penthouses owned by Malaysians isn't a community asset. |
Just a thought. How are they going to build loads of penthouses without building loads of flats beneath them? |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:09 - Oct 29 with 3372 views | W7Ranger |
Not sure if this has been suggeested before, but...
Can we not just dig down a bit?  |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:11 - Oct 29 with 3359 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:02 - Oct 29 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Gonna leave this subject because i'm boring myself and others.
But before I do, beware Billionaires who look like they do are doing something for no profit (building a stadium). Of course they want something, and the only sellable asset we have other than the players is the land the ground is on.
They have spent billions on us. They are going to want it back, and the best way to do this other than promotion and a long stint in the Prem is the sale of prime West London land in exchange for cheap Motorway land (see Reading).
I hope this prophecy is wrong, but if I was going to do this, I would start a argument to create a justification for a out of borough move on the basis of obstinance from the council. [Post edited 29 Oct 2021 16:07]
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You're not alone in your worries.
It's a long-term worry that will only go away when the club build a stadium and the ownership of that stadium is secure and transparent. |  |
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:13 - Oct 29 with 3350 views | daveB |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:02 - Oct 29 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Gonna leave this subject because i'm boring myself and others.
But before I do, beware Billionaires who look like they do are doing something for no profit (building a stadium). Of course they want something, and the only sellable asset we have other than the players is the land the ground is on.
They have spent billions on us. They are going to want it back, and the best way to do this other than promotion and a long stint in the Prem is the sale of prime West London land in exchange for cheap Motorway land (see Reading).
I hope this prophecy is wrong, but if I was going to do this, I would start a argument to create a justification for a out of borough move on the basis of obstinance from the council. [Post edited 29 Oct 2021 16:07]
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If that is the end game, and not saying you are wrong here, wouldn't they have done this public fall out years ago, |  | | |
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:13 - Oct 29 with 3348 views | nadera78 |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 11:58 - Oct 29 by daveB |
I do think the focus should now be on what can we do with Loftus Road. That sounds a good idea to me |
Just from looking around Loftus Rd it's pretty clear we don't effectively utilise the land we have. Jim Gregory used engineers to re-build it piecemeal, and of course pieces have been added at various stages over 40 years. I'm convinced that if you took a look at the whole site you'd find ways to tidy up the access to the stadium, the f&b outlets, the storage spaces, etc and in doing so improve the match day experience for everyone. And that's before we get onto anything structural that might increase capacity. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:17 - Oct 29 with 3335 views | LythamR |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:50 - Oct 29 by PinnerPaul |
TBF they are very good points and nice of you to articulate the council's thoughts.
They didn't actually say that though did they, just said 'fan based ownership' and threw in the word 'overseas' for good measure!
Final point, you use the word 'millionaire' as an insult, much like H & F - how is the +£1M MONTHLY loss supposed to be funded, if not by 'millionaires'??????? |
Neither the council or the club have covered themselves with glory with their statements and im not going to try and defend them on that
It wasnt my intention to use millionaire as an insult, i only meant that supporters should not be dismissed because they are not (some no doubt are) millionaires
We didnt lose £1m monthly until the millionaires got involved did we
I am generally positive about Hoos, he has done some really good things. My own perspective of supporters is that we are not simply consumers or clients of QPR we are stakeholders who should be taken into consideration in a way that goes way beyond the Business/Client relationship.
The Club makes big enough noise about "community" when it suits them so should be a bit more careful not to dismiss us when it doesnt.
After all what will they own 100% of if we suddenly dont turn up? |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:39 - Oct 29 with 3211 views | BAWHoops |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:13 - Oct 29 by nadera78 |
Just from looking around Loftus Rd it's pretty clear we don't effectively utilise the land we have. Jim Gregory used engineers to re-build it piecemeal, and of course pieces have been added at various stages over 40 years. I'm convinced that if you took a look at the whole site you'd find ways to tidy up the access to the stadium, the f&b outlets, the storage spaces, etc and in doing so improve the match day experience for everyone. And that's before we get onto anything structural that might increase capacity. |
As has been mentioned in here, if you knocked down the stadium and started again then with modern day regulations our capacity would drop significantly |  |
| http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/ |
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:53 - Oct 29 with 3153 views | PinnerPaul |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:17 - Oct 29 by LythamR |
Neither the council or the club have covered themselves with glory with their statements and im not going to try and defend them on that
It wasnt my intention to use millionaire as an insult, i only meant that supporters should not be dismissed because they are not (some no doubt are) millionaires
We didnt lose £1m monthly until the millionaires got involved did we
I am generally positive about Hoos, he has done some really good things. My own perspective of supporters is that we are not simply consumers or clients of QPR we are stakeholders who should be taken into consideration in a way that goes way beyond the Business/Client relationship.
The Club makes big enough noise about "community" when it suits them so should be a bit more careful not to dismiss us when it doesnt.
After all what will they own 100% of if we suddenly dont turn up? |
Fair enough Lytham - agree with most of that, not quite all though - but there you go, its a discussion after all. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:55 - Oct 29 with 3137 views | PinnerPaul |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:49 - Oct 29 by BazzaInTheLoft |
They are / have.
They want more community assets. A set of empty penthouses owned by Malaysians isn't a community asset. |
Fallen into the H & F trap there, a load of empty penthouses owned by anyone of any nationality aren't a community asset! | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:10 - Oct 29 with 3090 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:56 - Oct 29 by nadera78 |
No, nothing else that I've seen. It's interesting in that it's a speculative document based upon the research used by the architects who drew up Briatore's ridiculous plans ten years ago. You would have to presume they've approached the club (why would they not?) and they're not interested. |
It reads like pure fantasy when you know the physical limitations of the site.
Every proposal for expanding the capacity of the stadium I have read so far seems to exist in a parallel world where there is no need for planning permission, where regulations don't exist, neighbours don't object vociferously and spectators aren't human size.
Entertaining! [Post edited 29 Oct 2021 17:22]
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:18 - Oct 29 with 3018 views | PunteR |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:39 - Oct 29 by BAWHoops |
As has been mentioned in here, if you knocked down the stadium and started again then with modern day regulations our capacity would drop significantly |
Do we even need 18000 capacity.? What's our average attendance? Brentford has just over 17000 and in the Prem. Bournemouth seem to do ok with just over 14000.
We never fill our stadium as it is.
We could 100% improve the stadium but would cost millions and what's the incentive for the owners? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:30 - Oct 29 with 2975 views | NewBee |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:02 - Oct 29 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Gonna leave this subject because i'm boring myself and others.
But before I do, beware Billionaires who look like they do are doing something for no profit (building a stadium). Of course they want something, and the only sellable asset we have other than the players is the land the ground is on.
They have spent billions on us. They are going to want it back, and the best way to do this other than promotion and a long stint in the Prem is the sale of prime West London land in exchange for cheap Motorway land (see Reading).
I hope this prophecy is wrong, but if I was going to do this, I would start a argument to create a justification for a out of borough move on the basis of obstinance from the council. [Post edited 29 Oct 2021 16:07]
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As it happens, LB Hounslow wouldn't give permission for BFC to sell/demolish Griffin Park until after Lionel Road was built and open i.e. to prevent an owner selling GP, pocketing the dosh and clearing off to leave BFC homeless (or out in the sticks).
They also made it clear they would only give PP for houses on GP which, along with the 900 flats at LR and the employment at the new stadium, provided a valuable asset to the Borough.
And that was with an owner who had already plunged millions into the club and whose bona fides were impeccable.
Meanwhile Hounslow were otherwise helpful in granting PP, operating CPO's and facing down the Nimbys etc. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:42 - Oct 29 with 2956 views | QPR_Jim |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:30 - Oct 29 by NewBee |
As it happens, LB Hounslow wouldn't give permission for BFC to sell/demolish Griffin Park until after Lionel Road was built and open i.e. to prevent an owner selling GP, pocketing the dosh and clearing off to leave BFC homeless (or out in the sticks).
They also made it clear they would only give PP for houses on GP which, along with the 900 flats at LR and the employment at the new stadium, provided a valuable asset to the Borough.
And that was with an owner who had already plunged millions into the club and whose bona fides were impeccable.
Meanwhile Hounslow were otherwise helpful in granting PP, operating CPO's and facing down the Nimbys etc. |
So Hounslow used negotiations and the planning process to get this agreed rather than public statements. Much more professional.
The only difference is that we're also trying to get access to the land, which would be a lease so the freehold would stay with the local council which I think is better than buying it off the council as they'd lose it forever then. As part of the proposal there was also promise of providing sports facilities on part of the site to benefit the local community. But this trade off seems to have been boiled down to "giving it away" which I think isn't a fair reflection of what the club was proposing. |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:56 - Oct 29 with 2908 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:18 - Oct 29 by PunteR |
Do we even need 18000 capacity.? What's our average attendance? Brentford has just over 17000 and in the Prem. Bournemouth seem to do ok with just over 14000.
We never fill our stadium as it is.
We could 100% improve the stadium but would cost millions and what's the incentive for the owners? |
If you don't have the capacity to grow your support in the good times you will never be able to compete at the top level. Bournemouth were not able to maintain their place in the Prem for very long and nor will Brentford.
With space for 17-18,000 we filled it in the good times when we were promoted but losing, but then it became 70% full in the bad times. When you are promoted and winning perhaps against some of the glamour teams it can still never be more than 17-18,000.
We need a bigger stadium to compete. Build it and they will come (if we're winning).
Leave things as they are if you are happy to be a League One club which is more or less inevitable unless owners are prepared to keep on subsidising the club to the tune of 1M per month indefinitely. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:58 - Oct 29 with 2889 views | NewBee |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:18 - Oct 29 by PunteR |
Do we even need 18000 capacity.? What's our average attendance? Brentford has just over 17000 and in the Prem. Bournemouth seem to do ok with just over 14000.
We never fill our stadium as it is.
We could 100% improve the stadium but would cost millions and what's the incentive for the owners? |
The constraints of the site at Lionel Road are such that the absolute maximum they could fit in was 20k i.e. it was either that or move out the Borough.
Beyond that, the owner is on record as saying that even with 16k + 1.5k(?) premium seats, the club wouldn't be sustainable long term on Championship football (too big a gap between the "parachute" clubs and the rest).
However, he hoped to be competitive in the PL, so long as they continued to "punch above their weight" versuss the other clubs by dint of clever management, Big Six excepted.
As for Bournemouth, I don't know the detail, but afaik, their Russian majority owner has only provided interest-bearing loans (i.e. not equity) and then only on players to get them to the PL.
He/the club are not likely to spend money on the stadium while they only lease it, not own it. And I'm not sure the club owners really want to move to a new stadium, even if they have the resources, seeing as Bournemouth is one of the priciest areas in Britain to acquire land with PP.
That said, Dean Court is probably in better shape than Loftus Rd, seeing as it was completely rebuilt in 2001. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 18:40 - Oct 29 with 2761 views | switchingcode |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:56 - Oct 29 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
If you don't have the capacity to grow your support in the good times you will never be able to compete at the top level. Bournemouth were not able to maintain their place in the Prem for very long and nor will Brentford.
With space for 17-18,000 we filled it in the good times when we were promoted but losing, but then it became 70% full in the bad times. When you are promoted and winning perhaps against some of the glamour teams it can still never be more than 17-18,000.
We need a bigger stadium to compete. Build it and they will come (if we're winning).
Leave things as they are if you are happy to be a League One club which is more or less inevitable unless owners are prepared to keep on subsidising the club to the tune of 1M per month indefinitely. |
The difference between the take of a 20000 stadium and a 30000 is small in comparison to the tv money.Leicester city take just over 14 million a season 30000 compared to say Burnley 7 mill 20000.Unless you have one of the massive grounds like Spurs Arsenal City United ect who can get 60000 paid fans every week.When you look at the loses made by most relegated sides from PL a bigger ground would barely put a dent in their debts. | | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 19:37 - Oct 29 with 2584 views | Juzzie |
A couple of further comments from me...
- The Taylor Report. Completely limits the capacity if we were to demolish & start from scratch at Loftus Road. We'd be lucky to get 15k I reckon.
- Other clubs have built brand new grounds and increased their attendance (apart from Coventry!). I'm sure many people are put off from coming to LR. |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 08:06 - Oct 30 with 2284 views | Hastings_Hoops |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 15:50 - Oct 29 by PinnerPaul |
TBF they are very good points and nice of you to articulate the council's thoughts.
They didn't actually say that though did they, just said 'fan based ownership' and threw in the word 'overseas' for good measure!
Final point, you use the word 'millionaire' as an insult, much like H & F - how is the +£1M MONTHLY loss supposed to be funded, if not by 'millionaires'??????? |
Agree with this.
The millionaires are actually doing something very community-centric in re-calibrating the club to be self-sustaining, less reliant on their financing & therefore reliant on the supporters. |  | | |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 11:11 - Oct 30 with 5341 views | nadera78 |
| Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:39 - Oct 29 by BAWHoops |
As has been mentioned in here, if you knocked down the stadium and started again then with modern day regulations our capacity would drop significantly |
That's cool, but it's not related to anything I was saying. Which was; by looking at the land usage as a whole there are undoubtedly areas we could tidy up around the site that would improve the match day experience for everyone.
That's important, because even if we do get hold of land somewhere else we're not moving for a decade or more. | | | |
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