| Buying more shares? 17:16 - Jan 3 with 13235 views | 49thseason |
Since the BoD is notoriously backwards at coming forwards in terms of actually attempting to sell shares in the club to mere supporters, is it time to nail our colours to the mast and declare our intentions to buy (or perhaps reasons for not buying other than the obvious lack of brass) some of the 50,000 shares recently made available?
Personally I suppose I am going to have to tell SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) that I intend to get another 100.. not a big dent in the total but at least a small effort....and perhaps making a difference when the bills have to be paid
Anyone else?
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| Buying more shares? on 22:35 - Jan 3 with 2364 views | TVOS1907 |
| Buying more shares? on 22:19 - Jan 3 by RAFCBLUE |
Lets hope lots of these knowledgeable football fans like you congregate here to help Jim McNulty on Saturday:
https://rb.gy/mbfsha |
Yes, a lot of whom have done more than enough down the years.
Presumably you'll be there as well. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Buying more shares? on 22:36 - Jan 3 with 2362 views | 442Dale |
| Buying more shares? on 22:19 - Jan 3 by RAFCBLUE |
Lets hope lots of these knowledgeable football fans like you congregate here to help Jim McNulty on Saturday:
https://rb.gy/mbfsha |
TVOS along with many others gave their time and efforts eight months ago. If those meetings and previous offers and ideas had been capitalised on effectively by the club, there would have already been a financial boost to the club that could have benefitted Jim McNulty.
Unfortunately, like most other times over the last few years, those knowledgable football fans efforts have been wasted.
Saturday will see many continue in their efforts to create a positive change for their football club. They can do little more. |  |
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| Buying more shares? on 23:35 - Jan 3 with 2274 views | Sandyman |
| Buying more shares? on 20:16 - Jan 3 by sxdale |
Have the chairman and the board actually put loans in? I thought the loan proposal was refused by the league and the chairman had made a donation.
This makes me wonder if the chairman put in an additional say £100k into the club (don't know where I'm getting that figure from but sure I've heard it mentioned) for the continued running of the club, then why would you not take an additional 50,000 Ish shares?
This would surely be a better way of getting his money back if an investor did turn up, also could he negotiate the sale himself without having to get it through the rest of the shareholders?
Or have been listening to too many episodes of the price of football? |
The loan proposal, agreed by an EGM, was for the loans to be secured on the ground. That was rejected by the National League. The loans stated at the AGM are unsecured.
Get where you're coming from about "why not buy shares", but that would make less shares available to a potential investor / takeover candidate. Something which makes our current shareholding model unattractive to investors, apparently, yet the club wants to sell 50,000 to small shareholders exacerbating that issue. Another mixed message.
Also, any major shareholder selling out their personal holding to an investor would be a private sale which wouldn't result in money coming directly into the club, as happened with the Morton Louse lot. |  | | |
| Buying more shares? on 23:36 - Jan 3 with 2272 views | kel |
| Buying more shares? on 22:19 - Jan 3 by RAFCBLUE |
Lets hope lots of these knowledgeable football fans like you congregate here to help Jim McNulty on Saturday:
https://rb.gy/mbfsha |
I can’t make it on Saturday but I’ll be fully supportive of those that want “to help Jim McNulty on Saturday”
It’s warming to know that it’s being encouraged to do so, especially when he’s been slated by some on here who seem to have forgotten the performance of the previous two managers under these and previous board members. |  | | |
| Buying more shares? on 23:59 - Jan 3 with 2239 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Buying more shares? on 23:35 - Jan 3 by Sandyman |
The loan proposal, agreed by an EGM, was for the loans to be secured on the ground. That was rejected by the National League. The loans stated at the AGM are unsecured.
Get where you're coming from about "why not buy shares", but that would make less shares available to a potential investor / takeover candidate. Something which makes our current shareholding model unattractive to investors, apparently, yet the club wants to sell 50,000 to small shareholders exacerbating that issue. Another mixed message.
Also, any major shareholder selling out their personal holding to an investor would be a private sale which wouldn't result in money coming directly into the club, as happened with the Morton Louse lot. |
There also will come a point Sandyman where even those with the deepest pockets are not in a position to buy shares.
Share capital is considered permanent in the business versus loans which are expected to be repaid in the short term. What then? |  |
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| Buying more shares? on 00:03 - Jan 4 with 2230 views | sxdale |
| Buying more shares? on 23:35 - Jan 3 by Sandyman |
The loan proposal, agreed by an EGM, was for the loans to be secured on the ground. That was rejected by the National League. The loans stated at the AGM are unsecured.
Get where you're coming from about "why not buy shares", but that would make less shares available to a potential investor / takeover candidate. Something which makes our current shareholding model unattractive to investors, apparently, yet the club wants to sell 50,000 to small shareholders exacerbating that issue. Another mixed message.
Also, any major shareholder selling out their personal holding to an investor would be a private sale which wouldn't result in money coming directly into the club, as happened with the Morton Louse lot. |
Your last paragraph is exactly my point it would be a private sale and if our chairman is solely concerned with recouping the money he has already spent, then having more share to sell gives the buyer a better chance of achieving a majority shareholding.
Just maybe our chairman isn't looking to get his money back at all costs.
Price of football conspiracy theorist |  | | |
| Buying more shares? on 06:50 - Jan 4 with 2107 views | A_Newby |
Back to the original question about buying more RAFC shares.
1. I will listen to the proposal for the “squad builder” fund by the Trust. If they can show that there is a clear financial or football advantage to the club of this scheme when compared to simply purchasing of more shares, then I will donate to this.
2. If they cannot demonstrate a significant advantage, then I will consider purchasing another batch of shares but not immediately. I will wait until the prices for next year’s season cards are announced. If these are increased, then I WILL buy some more new shares. If they are not increased, then I WILL NOT purchase any more new shares as I feel that all I would be doing is subsidising the season cards of others.
On another note related to shareholdings, there are just under 3,300 shares that are held by around 120 shareholders, each holding less than 100 shares. This means that they must not have purchased any new shares in the last two issues.
I think the club should send an email shot (with any needed documents attached) to these shareholders asking if they would be willing to either return their shareholding to the club treasury or alternatively donate them to the Dale Trust. |  | | |
| Buying more shares? on 07:05 - Jan 4 with 2102 views | TalkingSutty |
| Buying more shares? on 00:03 - Jan 4 by sxdale |
Your last paragraph is exactly my point it would be a private sale and if our chairman is solely concerned with recouping the money he has already spent, then having more share to sell gives the buyer a better chance of achieving a majority shareholding.
Just maybe our chairman isn't looking to get his money back at all costs.
Price of football conspiracy theorist |
Maybe the Chairman has no plans to leave the club then and his preference is to sell it to persons who will accommodate him and let him carry on running the club as he sees fit.
On Saturday lunchtime a meeting has been called by the Trust in relation to fans donating money to help assist the manager and his playing budget. We have maybe 2500 loyal fans but how many have been made aware of this meeting and has social media been fully utilised in order to get as many as possible through the door? How many people can the Dale bar accomodate because it will have a limit on how many are allowed in, that's part of the licence conditions.
Now I'm willing to donate money to this cause but I want to know how its all being administrated, especially at the point that it funnels through to the club and what happens with it then. If that's not done correctly with full clarity then this is a project that could have serious repercussions with those making the donations and the Trust further along the line and we don't want that. I also want to donate as part of a inclusive fan base effort and not turn up at the meeting to a half empty room of only 100 or so supporters. The usual faces who turn up for things while the rest of the fan base don't get involved and i fully aporeciate a lot of fans wont have spare money to donate. We have over five hundred shareholders but only about 20% of them turned up at the recent AGM.
What I would like to see is a proper appeal sent out to the whole of the Town and the football World and I want the Chairman to be front and centre of this appeal. Utilise the local press, the local radio stations, Talk Sport, Sky News. Explain that the club is financially on its knees and we are now at the stage were we can't field a fully fit team on matchdays or fill the subs bench. We've run out of players. It seems to me that there is a reluctance to put the cards on the table and those in the Boardroom want to keep things in house. Send out an appeal and mobilise everybody in the Town, local businesses but do it now and call a press conference. If none of this is done then I see Saturdays meeting comprising about 5% of the fan base, the usual few who have been contributing as best they can for years in various ways.
It's this moment in time that you look at the Chairman to stand up and show leadership and not leave it to a handful of Trust volunteers. Get your face front and centre and speak out on a public platform and make a proper appeal, I'm sure he will get full support from other clubs and supporters in a similar position. Have Murray Knight sitting next to him, a Trust Director, its the perfect combination to appeal to the Town and the wider footballing community. This can't be left to a few on the Trust Committee and a small number of fans to implement and fund, the Trust and those in the Boardroom need to get a proper message out there. So yes, rather than buy more shares I'll contribute to this fund but I'm only going to do it if a proper appeal has been sent out to the rest of the fan base and the public of Rochdale, I want the Chairman to be front and centre and explain to the media and wider public the severity of the situation that the club now finds itself in. If that's not done and we see a room consisting of about 100 fans on Saturday then it's a pointless exercise and not fair on those 5% of the total fan base. At that point I will revert to plan B and buy a family brick for the wall. In a nutshell none if this will work unless the whole of the fan base is behind it and included. If those in the Boardroom want to keep everything in house and low key then maybe our own fans and those who work on the media side can get the message out there to the wider football world because a lot of people who I speak to are not even aware of the clubs situation. I know the Chairman will see that as meddling but that's what concerned shareholders and fans do at every club.
The decision making by those in the Boardroom is responsible for us having to reward journeymen footballers with two year contracts and also frittering away money on transfer fees for players who were never fit for purpose. Bad decisions from non footballing people in the Boardroom have also contributed massively to the mess we now find ourselves in so let's not try to sugar coat that fact and make out all of this was inevitable because it wasn't. The Stockdale scenario itself tells you that and the almost gloating statements issued by the Chairman at the time which forecast no financial uncertainty ahead. Basically they blew a massive budget supporting a rooky manager and we're still paying some of those players wages now. So at a time when he wants the fans to start financing players wages let's see the Chairman and his Directors jump on board with the appeal and get the message out there to the public at large. [Post edited 4 Jan 7:56]
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| Buying more shares? on 08:26 - Jan 4 with 1989 views | James1980 |
To criticise the board for employing Stockdale and saying his signings were not fit for purpose, with the benefit of hindsight is somewhat harsh. | |
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| Buying more shares? on 09:30 - Jan 4 with 1911 views | TalkingSutty |
| Buying more shares? on 08:26 - Jan 4 by James1980 |
To criticise the board for employing Stockdale and saying his signings were not fit for purpose, with the benefit of hindsight is somewhat harsh. |
The fans at the time are not aware of the financial backing afforded to Stockdale or the amount paid out in transfers. They expect a certain level of due diligence to be done when it comes to the suitability of players and the length of contracts offered. Those in the Boardroom are the custodians of the club and it's their job to oversee that, not the fans. They also decide when the time is right to stop financially supporting a failing manager. It's not hindsight to suggest that at this time the club had a healthy financial playing budget because the Chairman confirmed the financial forecast was favourable. Ridiculous decisions were made and it was the Chairman who signed off on them, nobody else did. Hundreds of thousands of pounds wasted, which has indirectly contributed greatly to losing our league status.Its great that the Chairman and Directors bought back the MH shares but their decisions since being in post have cost the club big time, to the extent that we have lost our League status. Let's not pretend they have done a good job and are above criticism, the clubs imploded and we are struggling to even put a team on the pitch. He didn't want fans to buy anymore shares because it might put off investors, now he does. He wanted fan involvement to fight off potential shysters getting hold of the club, now he doesn't. He wanted fans to stop meddling but now he wants them to start funding players wages. The club lacks leadership from top to bottom, it's as simple as that and you dont need hindsight to see it, no doubt you'll think that's harsh also. [Post edited 4 Jan 9:55]
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| Buying more shares? on 10:02 - Jan 4 with 1827 views | James1980 |
Did the board have a choice regards buying the Morton House shares? If so what was the alternative? | |
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| Buying more shares? on 10:07 - Jan 4 with 1811 views | TalkingSutty |
| Buying more shares? on 10:02 - Jan 4 by James1980 |
Did the board have a choice regards buying the Morton House shares? If so what was the alternative? |
Yes, nobody forced them to buy them, that was a collective decision that they made themselves with no consultation with the shareholders or fans. There are always alternatives to every decision in life and nobody can say how they will turn out. You take ownership for your decisions whether they turn out to be right or wrong. I was glad that they bought them back but I didn't know what the alternatives were and it wasn't my money. I thought MH would end up going back to Bottomley and his motley crew in order to recoup their outlay but they didn't have to do in the end. [Post edited 4 Jan 10:17]
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| Buying more shares? on 10:52 - Jan 4 with 1727 views | James1980 |
| Buying more shares? on 10:07 - Jan 4 by TalkingSutty |
Yes, nobody forced them to buy them, that was a collective decision that they made themselves with no consultation with the shareholders or fans. There are always alternatives to every decision in life and nobody can say how they will turn out. You take ownership for your decisions whether they turn out to be right or wrong. I was glad that they bought them back but I didn't know what the alternatives were and it wasn't my money. I thought MH would end up going back to Bottomley and his motley crew in order to recoup their outlay but they didn't have to do in the end. [Post edited 4 Jan 10:17]
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Would any of us have wanted The Infamous five regaining their shares and voting rights? | |
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| Buying more shares? on 11:07 - Jan 4 with 1693 views | Nafelad |
I agree with TS about it being good leadership that's required in all areas, but we haven't had any since Chris Dunphy and Keith Hill. Currently, I would suggest we only have one open, honest dedicated leader, with commitment and integrity - Jim McNulty. [Post edited 4 Jan 11:21]
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| Buying more shares? on 11:11 - Jan 4 with 1678 views | sxdale |
| Buying more shares? on 10:07 - Jan 4 by TalkingSutty |
Yes, nobody forced them to buy them, that was a collective decision that they made themselves with no consultation with the shareholders or fans. There are always alternatives to every decision in life and nobody can say how they will turn out. You take ownership for your decisions whether they turn out to be right or wrong. I was glad that they bought them back but I didn't know what the alternatives were and it wasn't my money. I thought MH would end up going back to Bottomley and his motley crew in order to recoup their outlay but they didn't have to do in the end. [Post edited 4 Jan 10:17]
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Those last 3 posts by you TS sum up perfectly how I feel except having forked out a sizeable sum of money (for me) on shares to help stave off the hostile takeover I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to put any more money into the club except on a brew at half time. | | | |
| Buying more shares? on 11:23 - Jan 4 with 1632 views | James1980 |
| Buying more shares? on 11:11 - Jan 4 by sxdale |
Those last 3 posts by you TS sum up perfectly how I feel except having forked out a sizeable sum of money (for me) on shares to help stave off the hostile takeover I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to put any more money into the club except on a brew at half time. |
However we know have the relationship with the stats company which has helped make more informed decisions re signings (of course no one knows how they will work out until they have played a number of games. | |
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| Buying more shares? on 13:11 - Jan 4 with 1458 views | Dalenet |
I thought about this long and hard. Whilst the messages from the AGM weren't clear, I was in no doubt that the unsecured loan from Simon was likely to last until the end of January. Hearing that Nevitt is injured and thus not saleable right now, left me worried about how we could get to the end of the season.
Dale is a private company. Shares cannot be marketed for fear of being in breach of very stringent investment scheme rules. So it is down to us as fans and our network to make a decision whether we buy.
I said on another thread that the launch of a player budget scheme by the Trust will be welcomed over the rest of the season, the club is in need of capital right now. Buying shares in Dale is in effect a donation, but if it helps the club survive for another few months whilst the Board seek alternative solutions then I think we need to buy shares as well - but only if you can afford it. I hope we sell all 50,000 with a couple of weeks - myself and family have bought some more - I can't stomach the alternative.
But most people won't be able to do it - and no criticism levelled for that. Join the player fund scheme when launched, buy more of anything on a matchday, or more importantly, spread the word to friends and family that we need everybody down at Spotland every game through to the end of the season. | | | |
| Buying more shares? on 13:18 - Jan 4 with 1430 views | Duckegg |
| Buying more shares? on 23:35 - Jan 3 by Sandyman |
The loan proposal, agreed by an EGM, was for the loans to be secured on the ground. That was rejected by the National League. The loans stated at the AGM are unsecured.
Get where you're coming from about "why not buy shares", but that would make less shares available to a potential investor / takeover candidate. Something which makes our current shareholding model unattractive to investors, apparently, yet the club wants to sell 50,000 to small shareholders exacerbating that issue. Another mixed message.
Also, any major shareholder selling out their personal holding to an investor would be a private sale which wouldn't result in money coming directly into the club, as happened with the Morton Louse lot. |
The Chairman wants to keep a vast majority of the existing shares for a potential investor who may never arrive.
Offering the 50000, to supporters to try and bring in extra funds good idea! Yes if they are taken up asap..
There are currently almost 1000 trust members and if possible between them could purchase those shares at £117 per member...
Would the trust members be willing to do the same every couple of months if the board where asked to release another 50000 shares!
Afterall the club is cash strapped and a regular influx of monies helps to save the club... |  | | |
| Buying more shares? on 13:44 - Jan 4 with 1376 views | James1980 |
Could The Community Trust and Dale Trust merge and as a registered charity be eligible for tax relief? Donations made into a fund to buy shares could then benefit from gift aid 🤷♂️ | |
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| Buying more shares? on 13:47 - Jan 4 with 1360 views | D_Alien |
| Buying more shares? on 13:18 - Jan 4 by Duckegg |
The Chairman wants to keep a vast majority of the existing shares for a potential investor who may never arrive.
Offering the 50000, to supporters to try and bring in extra funds good idea! Yes if they are taken up asap..
There are currently almost 1000 trust members and if possible between them could purchase those shares at £117 per member...
Would the trust members be willing to do the same every couple of months if the board where asked to release another 50000 shares!
Afterall the club is cash strapped and a regular influx of monies helps to save the club... |
Now, if a "Dale Co-operative Trust" (see steTsGoldenBoot [sgb] thread) were to be formed to take up that kind of suggestion...
1000 members putting in say, £50 every two months would enable c. 10000 shares to be acquired per month, thus putting around £23-25000 into the club on a monthly basis
Whilst not quite covering the shortfall alone, if that same Co-op were to include the volunteer army which reduced costs, and perhaps included those who couldn't afford to put the cash in regularly, then we might be somewhere near...
Perhaps someone with greater insight into how such a body might work would like to add to this? (in the sgb thread)
[Post edited 4 Jan 14:09]
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| Buying more shares? on 13:50 - Jan 4 with 1344 views | TalkingSutty |
| Buying more shares? on 13:18 - Jan 4 by Duckegg |
The Chairman wants to keep a vast majority of the existing shares for a potential investor who may never arrive.
Offering the 50000, to supporters to try and bring in extra funds good idea! Yes if they are taken up asap..
There are currently almost 1000 trust members and if possible between them could purchase those shares at £117 per member...
Would the trust members be willing to do the same every couple of months if the board where asked to release another 50000 shares!
Afterall the club is cash strapped and a regular influx of monies helps to save the club... |
Most of our supporters aren't Trust members, what about the vast majority of those fans contributing? We need to engage the whole of the fan base and can't rely on some of the Trust members to continually keep tipping up money. There are also appeals out to purchase bricks for the wall, fund the player scheme and purchase hospitality packages etc. There is probably 80% of our support who have purchased no shares at all for a variety of reasons. As a Trust member no I wouldn't be willing to pay £117 every couple of months. | | | |
| Buying more shares? on 13:52 - Jan 4 with 1334 views | D_Alien |
| Buying more shares? on 13:50 - Jan 4 by TalkingSutty |
Most of our supporters aren't Trust members, what about the vast majority of those fans contributing? We need to engage the whole of the fan base and can't rely on some of the Trust members to continually keep tipping up money. There are also appeals out to purchase bricks for the wall, fund the player scheme and purchase hospitality packages etc. There is probably 80% of our support who have purchased no shares at all for a variety of reasons. As a Trust member no I wouldn't be willing to pay £117 every couple of months. |
Agreed, but mightn't a "Dale Co-operative Trust" be a different kettle of fish, with the wider remit?
If that had 2000+ members, either contributing financially (at a lower amount) or by volunteering, there's got to be some mileage in exploring this, with very few other options open to fans other than just putting money into a void [Post edited 4 Jan 13:55]
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| Buying more shares? on 14:18 - Jan 4 with 1276 views | James1980 |
How about buy the minimum number of shares gives the opportunity to enter a draw at an additional £10 per ticket.
Top prize 5 year Family Season Ticket or
10 year season for a stand of the winners choice
Then various runners up prizes free your cards, discount on the shop, meet the squad, meet the manager, train with the coaching staff. Just an additional incentive to make people open their wallets | |
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| Buying more shares? on 14:34 - Jan 4 with 1234 views | Dalenet |
| Buying more shares? on 14:18 - Jan 4 by James1980 |
How about buy the minimum number of shares gives the opportunity to enter a draw at an additional £10 per ticket.
Top prize 5 year Family Season Ticket or
10 year season for a stand of the winners choice
Then various runners up prizes free your cards, discount on the shop, meet the squad, meet the manager, train with the coaching staff. Just an additional incentive to make people open their wallets |
It would be illegal | | | |
| Buying more shares? on 14:41 - Jan 4 with 1211 views | James1980 |
| Buying more shares? on 14:34 - Jan 4 by Dalenet |
It would be illegal |
Oh well that was, another, stupid idea of mine. I thought the separate draw ticket would circumvent any legal issue | |
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