| Grooming gangs 13:36 - Apr 11 with 7923 views | Boundy |
I see that the government are not going to insist on a national enquiry but will leave it to local councils to look into the national scandal which has been the abuse of young white girls , which imo is a disgrace in itself considering the collusion of some police officers and officials. |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Grooming gangs on 16:23 - Jun 18 with 570 views | Gwyn737 |
| Grooming gangs on 16:20 - Jun 18 by Dr_Winston |
Valid points there. I'm not sure that the Covid one will do much other than repeat the talking points about timing of lockdowns and associated stuff instead of asking whether our response should actually have been based on the work of someone with Neil Ferguson's track record or look into some of the almost petty reactions of Drakeford. The results all seem a bit pre-determined.
If we're going to have one it should have absolutely free reign to call whoever it likes, and point the finger at whoever it likes. There have already been attempts by some to limit its scope. |
I agree. It's cross political too and the attemps to blame each other and the search for 'Gotcha' soundbites are pretty sickening all round. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 16:24 - Jun 18 with 568 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Grooming gangs on 15:40 - Jun 18 by Scotia |
It was the current government that commissioned the report though.
The current Labour MP for Telford was replying to the findings of the original inquiry AFTER a specific national inquiry was refused by the Conservative government. |
Thing is, Starmer had little choice and even his own MP's have been critical.
theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/16/louise-casey-report-keir-starmer-labour-uk-grooming-gangs
Interestingly and despote people saying white on white grooming is the bigger problem, according to Casey....
Casey could only find data from three forces, but, using publicly available material from the police and reports, concluded that suspects were disproportionately likely to be Asian men.
The impression remains that Casey’s conclusion – that a three-year, time-limited national inquiry must be launched – has caught the prime minister on the hop. Once again, he was forced into what appears to be a damaging U-turn.
Some Labour MPs have said that a prime minister more attuned to his “red wall” backbenchers would have ordered an inquiry after taking office in July, and claimed credit for grasping an issue that the Tories ignored for years.
Instead Starmer in January refused to endorse demands led by Elon Musk who was backed by the Tories, Reform and some Labour backbenchers for a national inquiry into grooming gangs.
The above was taken from the Guardian link. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 16:26 - Jun 18 with 560 views | AnotherJohn |
| Grooming gangs on 16:08 - Jun 18 by Scotia |
Nope.
If Rupert Lowe was media savvy and knew the subject he was being questioned on he should have been able to answer the question. He clearly couldn't and, based on the stats quoted to him which he didn't dispute, he appeared to be racist. |
If the answer is "Nope", why did you write "based on the facts that Maitlis presents"? Some of us are going to think you can't tell fact from fiction.  | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 16:29 - Jun 18 with 553 views | Scotia |
| Grooming gangs on 16:26 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
If the answer is "Nope", why did you write "based on the facts that Maitlis presents"? Some of us are going to think you can't tell fact from fiction. |
Because it was based on the facts Maitlis presented. The point was Lowe was called racist, based on what Maitlis said, that's how he came across.
I didn't say based on the facts | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 16:32 - Jun 18 with 550 views | Gwyn737 |
| Grooming gangs on 16:24 - Jun 18 by SullutaCreturned |
Thing is, Starmer had little choice and even his own MP's have been critical.
theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/16/louise-casey-report-keir-starmer-labour-uk-grooming-gangs
Interestingly and despote people saying white on white grooming is the bigger problem, according to Casey....
Casey could only find data from three forces, but, using publicly available material from the police and reports, concluded that suspects were disproportionately likely to be Asian men.
The impression remains that Casey’s conclusion – that a three-year, time-limited national inquiry must be launched – has caught the prime minister on the hop. Once again, he was forced into what appears to be a damaging U-turn.
Some Labour MPs have said that a prime minister more attuned to his “red wall” backbenchers would have ordered an inquiry after taking office in July, and claimed credit for grasping an issue that the Tories ignored for years.
Instead Starmer in January refused to endorse demands led by Elon Musk who was backed by the Tories, Reform and some Labour backbenchers for a national inquiry into grooming gangs.
The above was taken from the Guardian link. |
That same article also says "...Casey finds that British-Pakistani men are much over-represented in some of the regional statistics that do exist for these crimes – but she also says: “The ethnicity data collected for victims and perpetrators of group-based child sexual exploitation is not sufficient to allow any conclusions to be drawn at the national level.”
There seems to be the teeth and the will now to get proper stats, but overall all we really know is that in these type of cases 83% of suspects are white, 7% Asian, 5% black which chimes with the make up of the population.
Maybe the research will show that it's particularly more prevelent in Pakistanis but we don't know for sure. If it does it can be addressed thankfully but the other ethnic groups shouldn't be ignored. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 16:33 - Jun 18 with 548 views | Scotia |
| Grooming gangs on 16:24 - Jun 18 by SullutaCreturned |
Thing is, Starmer had little choice and even his own MP's have been critical.
theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/16/louise-casey-report-keir-starmer-labour-uk-grooming-gangs
Interestingly and despote people saying white on white grooming is the bigger problem, according to Casey....
Casey could only find data from three forces, but, using publicly available material from the police and reports, concluded that suspects were disproportionately likely to be Asian men.
The impression remains that Casey’s conclusion – that a three-year, time-limited national inquiry must be launched – has caught the prime minister on the hop. Once again, he was forced into what appears to be a damaging U-turn.
Some Labour MPs have said that a prime minister more attuned to his “red wall” backbenchers would have ordered an inquiry after taking office in July, and claimed credit for grasping an issue that the Tories ignored for years.
Instead Starmer in January refused to endorse demands led by Elon Musk who was backed by the Tories, Reform and some Labour backbenchers for a national inquiry into grooming gangs.
The above was taken from the Guardian link. |
Starmer should have made more of launching the Casey audit, perhaps the fact he didn't and hasn't tells it's own story. But he did commission it. He should really be dining out on it instead of it looking like a u turn.
The Casey report though specifically looks at grooming gangs, not more widespread acts of grooming. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 16:49 - Jun 18 with 532 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Grooming gangs on 16:32 - Jun 18 by Gwyn737 |
That same article also says "...Casey finds that British-Pakistani men are much over-represented in some of the regional statistics that do exist for these crimes – but she also says: “The ethnicity data collected for victims and perpetrators of group-based child sexual exploitation is not sufficient to allow any conclusions to be drawn at the national level.”
There seems to be the teeth and the will now to get proper stats, but overall all we really know is that in these type of cases 83% of suspects are white, 7% Asian, 5% black which chimes with the make up of the population.
Maybe the research will show that it's particularly more prevelent in Pakistanis but we don't know for sure. If it does it can be addressed thankfully but the other ethnic groups shouldn't be ignored. |
isn't that the worrying bit tho, a lot of these cases involving non whites were being brushed under the carpet, what are the stats, really? Only 3 police forces had the stats Casey needed, there are 45 other forces with no stats for this, or that wouldn't supply them I guess.
People have been so keen to not be racist or seen as racist that they have ignored crimes. Look where that lead us, grooming gangs and increased racial tensions are fools like Reform jump on that far right bandwagon. | | | |
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| Grooming gangs on 17:02 - Jun 18 with 524 views | Dr_Winston |
| Grooming gangs on 16:49 - Jun 18 by SullutaCreturned |
isn't that the worrying bit tho, a lot of these cases involving non whites were being brushed under the carpet, what are the stats, really? Only 3 police forces had the stats Casey needed, there are 45 other forces with no stats for this, or that wouldn't supply them I guess.
People have been so keen to not be racist or seen as racist that they have ignored crimes. Look where that lead us, grooming gangs and increased racial tensions are fools like Reform jump on that far right bandwagon. |
Last paragraph is exactly right.
By taking the cowards way out and refusing to deal with an obvious problem, we're left with the exact situation that those responsible were hoping to avoid in the first place. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Grooming gangs on 17:06 - Jun 18 with 522 views | AnotherJohn |
| Grooming gangs on 16:33 - Jun 18 by Scotia |
Starmer should have made more of launching the Casey audit, perhaps the fact he didn't and hasn't tells it's own story. But he did commission it. He should really be dining out on it instead of it looking like a u turn.
The Casey report though specifically looks at grooming gangs, not more widespread acts of grooming. |
Re the white on white is a bigger problem point. 'The Casey report though specifically looks at grooming gangs, not more widespread acts of grooming.'
Not true according to my reading. The Casey Report argues that even in respect of the more general Home Office data on child sexual abuse, the large volume of missing data on ethnicity makes the claim of a white majority dubious. Casey then goes on to argue that it was therefore puzzling that this unreliable finding was transposed across to group-based abuse. I already quoted the relevant passage from the report above in the thread (see first sentence below). Another section of the report chapter contains more detail.
'VKPP and COCAD reports on child sexual abuse and exploitation data were not available at the time the Home Office published their paper but, as discussed earlier in this chapter, their data does not include sufficient ethnicity data to conclude that the majority of offenders are White. Given this, we also find it hard to understand how the Home Office reached the conclusion in their paper that the ethnicity of group-based child sexual exploitation offenders is likely to be in line with child sexual abuse more generally and with the general population i.e. “with the majority of offenders being White”.' (p. 79). [Post edited 18 Jun 17:09]
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| Grooming gangs on 17:37 - Jun 18 with 505 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Grooming gangs on 16:15 - Jun 18 by Gwyn737 |
I'm still not sure a national enquiry is the best way to handle this. This is based on the track record on things like Grenfell, the infected blood scandle and the previous 7 years in the making child sexual exploitation one.
The all seemed to take an age and very little was done as a consequence.
Still, it's happening now and lets hope its effective but in the meantime, I hope Casey's recomendations are all put in place quickly. A start has been made but continued pace is important. |
It needs doing as you say.
Going to make horrendous reading, but we need to learn to stop it dead in its tracks.
Never again. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Grooming gangs on 17:48 - Jun 18 with 494 views | raynor94 |
| Grooming gangs on 17:37 - Jun 18 by Kilkennyjack |
It needs doing as you say.
Going to make horrendous reading, but we need to learn to stop it dead in its tracks.
Never again. |
Sadly it's still going on the horse bolted a long time ago |  |
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| Grooming gangs on 18:28 - Jun 18 with 462 views | Scotia |
| Grooming gangs on 17:06 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
Re the white on white is a bigger problem point. 'The Casey report though specifically looks at grooming gangs, not more widespread acts of grooming.'
Not true according to my reading. The Casey Report argues that even in respect of the more general Home Office data on child sexual abuse, the large volume of missing data on ethnicity makes the claim of a white majority dubious. Casey then goes on to argue that it was therefore puzzling that this unreliable finding was transposed across to group-based abuse. I already quoted the relevant passage from the report above in the thread (see first sentence below). Another section of the report chapter contains more detail.
'VKPP and COCAD reports on child sexual abuse and exploitation data were not available at the time the Home Office published their paper but, as discussed earlier in this chapter, their data does not include sufficient ethnicity data to conclude that the majority of offenders are White. Given this, we also find it hard to understand how the Home Office reached the conclusion in their paper that the ethnicity of group-based child sexual exploitation offenders is likely to be in line with child sexual abuse more generally and with the general population i.e. “with the majority of offenders being White”.' (p. 79). [Post edited 18 Jun 17:09]
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Casey's audit is entitled "national audit on group based child sexual exploitation and abuse"
Most grooming is undertaken by individuals. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 19:21 - Jun 18 with 416 views | Gwyn737 |
| Grooming gangs on 18:28 - Jun 18 by Scotia |
Casey's audit is entitled "national audit on group based child sexual exploitation and abuse"
Most grooming is undertaken by individuals. |
…and by individuals known to their victims. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 21:16 - Jun 18 with 357 views | AnotherJohn |
| Grooming gangs on 18:28 - Jun 18 by Scotia |
Casey's audit is entitled "national audit on group based child sexual exploitation and abuse"
Most grooming is undertaken by individuals. |
Yes, and if you bother to read the report you'll see that the audit exercise reviewed a range of data sources available on child abuse and ethnicity, which were wider than just group-based grooming. I quoted a passage from the report above which says that in plain terms, but you ignore that and go to the report title. Not much point in arguing with somebody who doesn't do detail. It is the same when you say that you don't know the source of Maitlis's stats (her false "facts", which Lowe immediately said were untrue). In the video she says she got them from a Times report and you will find that this relates to the Home Office paper, which was criticized in the extract from the report I posted. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 21:36 - Jun 18 with 341 views | Scotia |
| Grooming gangs on 21:16 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
Yes, and if you bother to read the report you'll see that the audit exercise reviewed a range of data sources available on child abuse and ethnicity, which were wider than just group-based grooming. I quoted a passage from the report above which says that in plain terms, but you ignore that and go to the report title. Not much point in arguing with somebody who doesn't do detail. It is the same when you say that you don't know the source of Maitlis's stats (her false "facts", which Lowe immediately said were untrue). In the video she says she got them from a Times report and you will find that this relates to the Home Office paper, which was criticized in the extract from the report I posted. |
It's 197 pages long. I haven't read it all, but the summary mentions group based child abuse by grooming gangs several times. It's no surprise what the ethnic focus is.
It may use data across other abuse but the focus of the report is grooming gangs, so that is what is being examined.
Just as a reminder, you said it was "not true" that the audit was based on grooming gangs.
Lowe didn't challenge the stats because he couldn't, any politician worth their salt and with a genuine concern about child protection could have debunked it straight away. Especially if they were published in one of the most respected news sources in the country. He couldn't so appeared to be racist.
I've actually just watched the interview again. Maitlis says "we only hear you talking about Pakistani Muslim perpetrators, do you deny there are white perpetrators of the same crime?" He says nothing of substance in reply and certainly not "no". That is quite racist really. [Post edited 18 Jun 21:51]
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| Grooming gangs on 21:51 - Jun 18 with 330 views | AnotherJohn |
| Grooming gangs on 16:32 - Jun 18 by Gwyn737 |
That same article also says "...Casey finds that British-Pakistani men are much over-represented in some of the regional statistics that do exist for these crimes – but she also says: “The ethnicity data collected for victims and perpetrators of group-based child sexual exploitation is not sufficient to allow any conclusions to be drawn at the national level.”
There seems to be the teeth and the will now to get proper stats, but overall all we really know is that in these type of cases 83% of suspects are white, 7% Asian, 5% black which chimes with the make up of the population.
Maybe the research will show that it's particularly more prevelent in Pakistanis but we don't know for sure. If it does it can be addressed thankfully but the other ethnic groups shouldn't be ignored. |
"overall all we really know is that in these type of cases 83% of suspects are white, 7% Asian, 5% black which chimes with the make up of the population." Gwyn contributes some good posts but, with all due respect, this is not what Casey wrote.
These figures come from COCAD, which only recorded ethnicity for 34% of cases included.. The Casey Report says: 'In the November 2024 CSE Taskforce COCAD report, self-defined ethnicity data was published for all ‘contact’ group-based child sexual exploitation and abuse crimes in 2023 where two or more suspects had been identified (including offending in family, institutional and other settings). It also outlined an ethnicity profile for suspects that aligns fairly closely with 2021 Census data for the general population in England and Wales131 (88% White, 7% Asian, 5% Black, 3% Mixed and 2% Other), with a caveat noted in the report that self-defined ethnicity was only recorded for 34% of suspects. With over two thirds of ethnicity data missing for perpetrators in the VKPP report and nearly two thirds missing in COCAD, it is not possible to draw any conclusions on the representation of ethnic groups amongst perpetrators from this published data set. '
As people don't seem to be reading the actual report, let me repeat what Casey said here: '[With] nearly two thirds missing in COCAD, it is not possible to draw any conclusions on the representation of ethnic groups amongst perpetrators from this published data set.' What is implied here is that there may be systematic under-recording of non-White ethnicity for certain kinds of offences. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 22:12 - Jun 18 with 315 views | Gwyn737 |
| Grooming gangs on 21:51 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
"overall all we really know is that in these type of cases 83% of suspects are white, 7% Asian, 5% black which chimes with the make up of the population." Gwyn contributes some good posts but, with all due respect, this is not what Casey wrote.
These figures come from COCAD, which only recorded ethnicity for 34% of cases included.. The Casey Report says: 'In the November 2024 CSE Taskforce COCAD report, self-defined ethnicity data was published for all ‘contact’ group-based child sexual exploitation and abuse crimes in 2023 where two or more suspects had been identified (including offending in family, institutional and other settings). It also outlined an ethnicity profile for suspects that aligns fairly closely with 2021 Census data for the general population in England and Wales131 (88% White, 7% Asian, 5% Black, 3% Mixed and 2% Other), with a caveat noted in the report that self-defined ethnicity was only recorded for 34% of suspects. With over two thirds of ethnicity data missing for perpetrators in the VKPP report and nearly two thirds missing in COCAD, it is not possible to draw any conclusions on the representation of ethnic groups amongst perpetrators from this published data set. '
As people don't seem to be reading the actual report, let me repeat what Casey said here: '[With] nearly two thirds missing in COCAD, it is not possible to draw any conclusions on the representation of ethnic groups amongst perpetrators from this published data set.' What is implied here is that there may be systematic under-recording of non-White ethnicity for certain kinds of offences. |
Perhaps I didn’t make it clear in my post.
Casey’s words are in quotation marks whereas the figures used are stated in the article to represent the only full data we have.
It wasn’t my intention to indicate those figures were from Casey. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 22:17 - Jun 18 with 310 views | AnotherJohn |
| Grooming gangs on 21:36 - Jun 18 by Scotia |
It's 197 pages long. I haven't read it all, but the summary mentions group based child abuse by grooming gangs several times. It's no surprise what the ethnic focus is.
It may use data across other abuse but the focus of the report is grooming gangs, so that is what is being examined.
Just as a reminder, you said it was "not true" that the audit was based on grooming gangs.
Lowe didn't challenge the stats because he couldn't, any politician worth their salt and with a genuine concern about child protection could have debunked it straight away. Especially if they were published in one of the most respected news sources in the country. He couldn't so appeared to be racist.
I've actually just watched the interview again. Maitlis says "we only hear you talking about Pakistani Muslim perpetrators, do you deny there are white perpetrators of the same crime?" He says nothing of substance in reply and certainly not "no". That is quite racist really. [Post edited 18 Jun 21:51]
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This is going to be my last comment because there isn't much point in trying to correct posts that show a poster hasn't read the Casey Report. What I said it that it is untrue to say the report does not include an assessment of the validity of data on general child sexual abuse, including non-group grooming. That is simply because there is very little reliable data on sexual abuse and ethnicity across the spectrum. You will see that a key recommendation of the report re data collection does not limit this to the area of group-based grooming.
Recommendation 4: The government should make mandatory the collection of
ethnicity and nationality data for all suspects in child sexual abuse and
criminal exploitation cases and work with the police to improve the collection
of ethnicity data for victims. (p. 152).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/684ffae201d3b0e7b62da722/National | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 22:34 - Jun 18 with 287 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Grooming gangs on 22:17 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
This is going to be my last comment because there isn't much point in trying to correct posts that show a poster hasn't read the Casey Report. What I said it that it is untrue to say the report does not include an assessment of the validity of data on general child sexual abuse, including non-group grooming. That is simply because there is very little reliable data on sexual abuse and ethnicity across the spectrum. You will see that a key recommendation of the report re data collection does not limit this to the area of group-based grooming.
Recommendation 4: The government should make mandatory the collection of
ethnicity and nationality data for all suspects in child sexual abuse and
criminal exploitation cases and work with the police to improve the collection
of ethnicity data for victims. (p. 152).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/684ffae201d3b0e7b62da722/National |
With respect….
Shirley they can establish the ethnicity of anyone convicted ?
They might not have it recorded today but its not hard to find out. Is it ?
Many will not even try to hide who they are.
They dont care. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Grooming gangs on 00:05 - Jun 19 with 263 views | Robbie |
That loveable scallywag , a good egg it appeared Bojo was found out over Partygate during the COVID crisis , after a backlash he held his hand up and done a runner .
Maybe our current PM who has been found our as a fraud again , scared of saying the truth should also do the decent thing too , | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 05:25 - Jun 19 with 227 views | Scotia |
| Grooming gangs on 22:17 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
This is going to be my last comment because there isn't much point in trying to correct posts that show a poster hasn't read the Casey Report. What I said it that it is untrue to say the report does not include an assessment of the validity of data on general child sexual abuse, including non-group grooming. That is simply because there is very little reliable data on sexual abuse and ethnicity across the spectrum. You will see that a key recommendation of the report re data collection does not limit this to the area of group-based grooming.
Recommendation 4: The government should make mandatory the collection of
ethnicity and nationality data for all suspects in child sexual abuse and
criminal exploitation cases and work with the police to improve the collection
of ethnicity data for victims. (p. 152).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/684ffae201d3b0e7b62da722/National |
This is what you said:-
"The Casey report though specifically looks at grooming gangs, not more widespread acts of grooming.'
Not true according to my reading."
That might be a recommendation for all exploitation scenarios, but it's derived from an audit of child exploitation gangs. | | | |
| Grooming gangs on 10:50 - Jun 19 with 165 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Grooming gangs on 22:17 - Jun 18 by AnotherJohn |
This is going to be my last comment because there isn't much point in trying to correct posts that show a poster hasn't read the Casey Report. What I said it that it is untrue to say the report does not include an assessment of the validity of data on general child sexual abuse, including non-group grooming. That is simply because there is very little reliable data on sexual abuse and ethnicity across the spectrum. You will see that a key recommendation of the report re data collection does not limit this to the area of group-based grooming.
Recommendation 4: The government should make mandatory the collection of
ethnicity and nationality data for all suspects in child sexual abuse and
criminal exploitation cases and work with the police to improve the collection
of ethnicity data for victims. (p. 152).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/684ffae201d3b0e7b62da722/National |
It's interesting how things get so political these days, the people responsible for this are elected officials in local government, senior officers in local government, senior police officers in various police forces and senior social workers who have colluded together to make decisions like " 10 year old girls are prostitutes not vulnerable young girls ".
People chucking muck at central government are looking in the wrong place. |  |
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| Grooming gangs on 11:38 - Jun 19 with 141 views | trampie |
| Grooming gangs on 10:50 - Jun 19 by JACKMANANDBOY |
It's interesting how things get so political these days, the people responsible for this are elected officials in local government, senior officers in local government, senior police officers in various police forces and senior social workers who have colluded together to make decisions like " 10 year old girls are prostitutes not vulnerable young girls ".
People chucking muck at central government are looking in the wrong place. |
It's unbelievable, not that long ago we had a 15 year old English born and bred schoolgirl that had been groomed and radicalised stripped of her citizenship by the UK. |  |
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