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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:41 - Jun 4 by KensalT
My point is that the game moves on and you can be forgotten very quickly at this level.
Two years ago Darren Moore was getting Wednesday promoted to the Championship.
Most people thought he was very unlucky to be sacked from that job.
There's been a glut of Championship jobs coming open since Easter. I haven't seen Moore's name linked to any of them.
I would wager the reason Moore didn’t move from the longlist onto the shortlist for any of the jobs is him taking the job at Huddersfield after Sheff Wed and being very quickly sacked for playing ugly football that didn’t win any games.
If he has another good season with Port Vale, he will get interviews next summer I’m sure.
If Cifuentes decides to sit out his contract and never need to work again, I’m sure he will indeed need to go overseas or try and get in again down the leagues here. He has a good network though so I doubt hes too worried about that what if.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:48 - Jun 4 with 1259 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 15:16 - Jun 4 by stainrods_elbow
Maybe think/proofread before you go to the polls! Why 3 (should be 4) 'NO' answers and only one emphatic 'YES', for instance? Can't one say yes with reservations/on balance/through gritted teeth, for instance?
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:41 - Jun 4 by KensalT
My point is that the game moves on and you can be forgotten very quickly at this level.
Two years ago Darren Moore was getting Wednesday promoted to the Championship.
Most people thought he was very unlucky to be sacked from that job.
There's been a glut of Championship jobs coming open since Easter. I haven't seen Moore's name linked to any of them.
Yeah, I get you. Isn't the average lifespan of a Champ managers job less than a season now?
The current fad seems to be for foreign coaches, or younger English coaches coming through. It is mad that someone like Moore got loads of praise for previous jobs and is now plying his trade in L1...
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:53 - Jun 4 with 1238 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 15:33 - Jun 4 by SimonJames
If Nourry isn't up to the job (and I suspect that he isn't) then it doesn't matter who is brought in... It will potentially be a series of unsuccessful appointments until Nourry is identified as the root cause and is removed.
[Post edited 4 Jun 23:22]
Jeez, Nourry has been in the job about 18 months which is not particularly long. How can he be accused of being the root cause of 30 years of utter bollox. He wasn't even born when we sold Ferdinand and bought Hateley, but no doubt his fault as well. I like what Nourry is doing as he is finally changing the club for the better.
And MC wasn't that bloody good, I mean the football was God awful all of last season. Turgid.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:56 - Jun 4 with 1231 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:48 - Jun 4 by lassel
I would wager the reason Moore didn’t move from the longlist onto the shortlist for any of the jobs is him taking the job at Huddersfield after Sheff Wed and being very quickly sacked for playing ugly football that didn’t win any games.
If he has another good season with Port Vale, he will get interviews next summer I’m sure.
If Cifuentes decides to sit out his contract and never need to work again, I’m sure he will indeed need to go overseas or try and get in again down the leagues here. He has a good network though so I doubt hes too worried about that what if.
You're making my point for me. Although you don't seem to realise it.
Moore was unlucky to lose to lose the Wednesday job. Took a crap job to try and get back in the game, failed and ended up at Port Vale.
As I said, once you're dropped by the pack it can be hard work getting back.
As for Marti. He's 41 and has a young family. I'm sure Mrs Marti will be thrilled to bits at the prospect of a drop in status and income.
Marti has done well for us but he hasn't yet achieved much in the game. Several good Championship jobs have come and gone since he was placed on gardening leave. And several more will come and go before he gets his next gig. And like Moore with Huddersfield he might have to take what he can get.
Meanwhile there's plenty more hungry young coaches beavering away trying to make a name for themselves and become the next flavour of the month.
[Post edited 4 Jun 17:13]
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:57 - Jun 4 with 1225 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:53 - Jun 4 by Wilkinswatercarrier
Jeez, Nourry has been in the job about 18 months which is not particularly long. How can he be accused of being the root cause of 30 years of utter bollox. He wasn't even born when we sold Ferdinand and bought Hateley, but no doubt his fault as well. I like what Nourry is doing as he is finally changing the club for the better.
And MC wasn't that bloody good, I mean the football was God awful all of last season. Turgid.
As a serious question, what exactly has Nourry done that has changed the club for the better?
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 17:16 - Jun 4 with 1163 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:57 - Jun 4 by lassel
As a serious question, what exactly has Nourry done that has changed the club for the better?
Culture, Les and Chris didn't produce the promised results fell out with Warbs who was without any doubt the most successful manager in the last decade.
If you do that at QPR now you get shown the door. The question now is who shows Nourry the door when a more useful employee fall out with him. That's my concern.
If we finished say 7th or 8th then who would be on gardening leave?
Nourry can only fix the culture down stream, those above him have been part of the problem for years.
I see him as a sticking plaster who will be torn off as soon as it suits.
Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:57 - Jun 4 by lassel
As a serious question, what exactly has Nourry done that has changed the club for the better?
Reduction in wage bill.
Reduction in average age of squad to maximise resale value.
Revamp of DS and releasing players deemed surplus early.
Removal of previous coaches (Ramsey etc) and restructure.
Installing club coaches independent of the manager so if he leaves he doesn't take the entire backroom team with him and leaving us screwed.
Shopping in different markets for players, something we haven't done for years. I include the DS players such as Wilke, Bennie and O'brien who have all come in from pretty left field clubs.
Varane already subject to a multi million £ bid after 10 months.
Refusing to give a manager what he wants just because said manager demands it.
I'd say Nourry is doing pretty well, yes, mistakes have happened, but we are not all perfect. I like him. He has a clear plan while trying new things and he is upsetting a few egos on the way. Good.
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:57 - Jun 4 by lassel
As a serious question, what exactly has Nourry done that has changed the club for the better?
I really like the changes made at Development level. An actual mandate that stops us accumulating players over 21 with no first team experience.
Although, I don't think he can take any credit for the training ground, which has been another positive step.
I liked that first transfer window, where he managed to move on Dozell and bring in some new players, which I think actually helped to keep us up. --Felt like a magic trick at the time.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 18:54 - Jun 4 with 1035 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 17:17 - Jun 4 by Wilkinswatercarrier
Reduction in wage bill.
Reduction in average age of squad to maximise resale value.
Revamp of DS and releasing players deemed surplus early.
Removal of previous coaches (Ramsey etc) and restructure.
Installing club coaches independent of the manager so if he leaves he doesn't take the entire backroom team with him and leaving us screwed.
Shopping in different markets for players, something we haven't done for years. I include the DS players such as Wilke, Bennie and O'brien who have all come in from pretty left field clubs.
Varane already subject to a multi million £ bid after 10 months.
Refusing to give a manager what he wants just because said manager demands it.
I'd say Nourry is doing pretty well, yes, mistakes have happened, but we are not all perfect. I like him. He has a clear plan while trying new things and he is upsetting a few egos on the way. Good.
The opinion on Nourry , really is the jury is out
He has effectively humiliated a manager that was half decent. Our best since Warburton but appreciate thats not a big ask.
So the proof of his skills is heavily dependent on who we bring in next.
If they fail, then that is on Nourrys watch and it has been his decision seemingly to get rid of Cifuentes.
I know you personally have a poor opinion of Cifuentes but many others don't. There is obviously reasons for the majority liking the man. Ie he has been half decent for us and we were looking at least mid table next season with Marti. I would suggest majority believe this.
But as you think Nourry had been performing decently, his key decision is the next manager, and for your support and belief in Nourry, then the next manager needs to do better than Marti could have potentially achieved.
If the next manager fails and we end up in the bottom six, would you then say Christian has failed because my own personal belief is the next manager will be worse.
We are already seeing average managers turn us down or state no interest and my own personal view is they have seen this gardening leave scenario and fear that for themselves.
You do seem to have a blind faith in Nourry but conveniently gloss over the flaws.
Even if you wanted Cifuentes out, this scenario as is, is IMHO , an extremely clunky and jumbled botch up of a separation and very spuriously contrived. Basically exceptionally poorly managed and a PR disaster. Not a great advert for the club in the way a decent manager has effectively been shifted half out and half in. Whichever way it is looked at, its shambolic and if I was an up and coming manager with a point to prove, the last place I would consider to achieve this, is at Queens Park Rangers...
Be very interested in your views on Nourry, Wilkins, when we finally have a new incumbent on board. Do you personally have any names you feel we should be looking at ???
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 15:28 - Jun 4 by stainrods_elbow
I meant morally as much as financially - it's his name out there, isn't it? So you're saying that, as long as he's being paid, he won't (and needn't/shouldn't) care?
Does that mean there's nothting to stop any employer putting anyone on gardening leave, whatever they've done or haven't done? (Answers, please, for posters who actually know something about contract law.)
Morals have nothing to do it. What's germane is what the contract says and whether it's enforceable. The fact is Marti isn't contesting it which means either there are no grounds or it suits him not to.
Fixed term contracts will invariably have standard language covering the employee's duties, which will include being paid to stay at home if the employer so desires. Hence the current situation.
my level of optimism when it comes to the club reinstating marti and it actually goes on to work, is no higher than the average bloke taking an ex girlfriend back.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 19:47 - Jun 4 with 874 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 17:17 - Jun 4 by Wilkinswatercarrier
Reduction in wage bill.
Reduction in average age of squad to maximise resale value.
Revamp of DS and releasing players deemed surplus early.
Removal of previous coaches (Ramsey etc) and restructure.
Installing club coaches independent of the manager so if he leaves he doesn't take the entire backroom team with him and leaving us screwed.
Shopping in different markets for players, something we haven't done for years. I include the DS players such as Wilke, Bennie and O'brien who have all come in from pretty left field clubs.
Varane already subject to a multi million £ bid after 10 months.
Refusing to give a manager what he wants just because said manager demands it.
I'd say Nourry is doing pretty well, yes, mistakes have happened, but we are not all perfect. I like him. He has a clear plan while trying new things and he is upsetting a few egos on the way. Good.
They’ve added Madsen, Varane, Celar plus the uplift for Cook, Colback, Anderson & Frey. If they’ve managed to reduce the wage bill after that then Nourry and the FD deserve his self anointed title of ‘the Messi of football backrooms’. I await the next accounts with interest,
The overhaul of the DS was long overdue and something I would imagine everyone supports, however it was a Hoos initiative that he wanted to do for a long time. Nourry’s claim that you’re out if you’re not ready at 21 fell apart already this summer with Talla and Aoraha who are 21 & 22 and nowhere near the first team sticking around. They’ve also offered a new deal to 21 year old Petrie who is nowhere near first team level….
The shopping in different markets at DS level is all outsourced to an agent related to one of the DS players.
Varane attracting interest is great and hopefully refunds us the money blown on Madsen & Celar. But we then need to replace Varane, Madsen & Celar with that money so will have to do some great deals…
On the counter is the disdainful treatment of fans re: communications that they even had to peddle back mid season, the repeated promise of fan forums that never happened, the public comments by a former player and the dad of a current player about how he conducts himself and the removal of the most popular manager we have had for a decade.
Of course it’s a game of opinions, but I struggle to see how anyone could have Nourry down as doing a good job unless they haven’t actually been paying any attention.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 19:54 - Jun 4 with 866 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 19:47 - Jun 4 by lassel
They’ve added Madsen, Varane, Celar plus the uplift for Cook, Colback, Anderson & Frey. If they’ve managed to reduce the wage bill after that then Nourry and the FD deserve his self anointed title of ‘the Messi of football backrooms’. I await the next accounts with interest,
The overhaul of the DS was long overdue and something I would imagine everyone supports, however it was a Hoos initiative that he wanted to do for a long time. Nourry’s claim that you’re out if you’re not ready at 21 fell apart already this summer with Talla and Aoraha who are 21 & 22 and nowhere near the first team sticking around. They’ve also offered a new deal to 21 year old Petrie who is nowhere near first team level….
The shopping in different markets at DS level is all outsourced to an agent related to one of the DS players.
Varane attracting interest is great and hopefully refunds us the money blown on Madsen & Celar. But we then need to replace Varane, Madsen & Celar with that money so will have to do some great deals…
On the counter is the disdainful treatment of fans re: communications that they even had to peddle back mid season, the repeated promise of fan forums that never happened, the public comments by a former player and the dad of a current player about how he conducts himself and the removal of the most popular manager we have had for a decade.
Of course it’s a game of opinions, but I struggle to see how anyone could have Nourry down as doing a good job unless they haven’t actually been paying any attention.
Did Marti hate the players? Or was that your view you were passing off as fact?
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 19:59 - Jun 4 with 854 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 16:48 - Jun 4 by lassel
I would wager the reason Moore didn’t move from the longlist onto the shortlist for any of the jobs is him taking the job at Huddersfield after Sheff Wed and being very quickly sacked for playing ugly football that didn’t win any games.
If he has another good season with Port Vale, he will get interviews next summer I’m sure.
If Cifuentes decides to sit out his contract and never need to work again, I’m sure he will indeed need to go overseas or try and get in again down the leagues here. He has a good network though so I doubt hes too worried about that what if.
A network that I’m sure you have on speed dial given your knowledge of Marti. Any idea what he ate this morning
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 20:44 - Jun 4 with 787 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 19:47 - Jun 4 by lassel
They’ve added Madsen, Varane, Celar plus the uplift for Cook, Colback, Anderson & Frey. If they’ve managed to reduce the wage bill after that then Nourry and the FD deserve his self anointed title of ‘the Messi of football backrooms’. I await the next accounts with interest,
The overhaul of the DS was long overdue and something I would imagine everyone supports, however it was a Hoos initiative that he wanted to do for a long time. Nourry’s claim that you’re out if you’re not ready at 21 fell apart already this summer with Talla and Aoraha who are 21 & 22 and nowhere near the first team sticking around. They’ve also offered a new deal to 21 year old Petrie who is nowhere near first team level….
The shopping in different markets at DS level is all outsourced to an agent related to one of the DS players.
Varane attracting interest is great and hopefully refunds us the money blown on Madsen & Celar. But we then need to replace Varane, Madsen & Celar with that money so will have to do some great deals…
On the counter is the disdainful treatment of fans re: communications that they even had to peddle back mid season, the repeated promise of fan forums that never happened, the public comments by a former player and the dad of a current player about how he conducts himself and the removal of the most popular manager we have had for a decade.
Of course it’s a game of opinions, but I struggle to see how anyone could have Nourry down as doing a good job unless they haven’t actually been paying any attention.
With bells on. Ruben is also fully driving the strategy for our u23 transfer investment / emerging talent model, not too dissimilar to Sunderland’s. Granted it was well overdue, and the player trading model - based on young players only and flipping them well before aged 25 - is literally the only strategy for a club like ours, but he got there / the owners got there in the end.
And to be fair to Nourry he is executing against that ownership strategy, but the idea that this is Nourrys strategy is well off the mark. He is right place right time to execute the Sunderland style model, and whilst the Dev squad have made some interesting signings on paper, the proof will be in the pudding. Right now it is potential and nothing more. If the likes of Esquedinha, O’Brien, Bennie, et al make it, then we are making progress, as would Nourry in his role.
As for those younger acquisitions and investments in the first team, again the jury is out on that. Time will tell. For every Varane and Morrison, it is cancelled out by Celar and Madsen, right now.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 21:44 - Jun 4 with 695 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 19:47 - Jun 4 by lassel
They’ve added Madsen, Varane, Celar plus the uplift for Cook, Colback, Anderson & Frey. If they’ve managed to reduce the wage bill after that then Nourry and the FD deserve his self anointed title of ‘the Messi of football backrooms’. I await the next accounts with interest,
The overhaul of the DS was long overdue and something I would imagine everyone supports, however it was a Hoos initiative that he wanted to do for a long time. Nourry’s claim that you’re out if you’re not ready at 21 fell apart already this summer with Talla and Aoraha who are 21 & 22 and nowhere near the first team sticking around. They’ve also offered a new deal to 21 year old Petrie who is nowhere near first team level….
The shopping in different markets at DS level is all outsourced to an agent related to one of the DS players.
Varane attracting interest is great and hopefully refunds us the money blown on Madsen & Celar. But we then need to replace Varane, Madsen & Celar with that money so will have to do some great deals…
On the counter is the disdainful treatment of fans re: communications that they even had to peddle back mid season, the repeated promise of fan forums that never happened, the public comments by a former player and the dad of a current player about how he conducts himself and the removal of the most popular manager we have had for a decade.
Of course it’s a game of opinions, but I struggle to see how anyone could have Nourry down as doing a good job unless they haven’t actually been paying any attention.
Modern pro football in 'disdainful treatment of fans' - what a shocker! If you thought that was anything new, you've obviously been living under a rock for decades!
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 20:44 - Jun 4 by 1JD
With bells on. Ruben is also fully driving the strategy for our u23 transfer investment / emerging talent model, not too dissimilar to Sunderland’s. Granted it was well overdue, and the player trading model - based on young players only and flipping them well before aged 25 - is literally the only strategy for a club like ours, but he got there / the owners got there in the end.
And to be fair to Nourry he is executing against that ownership strategy, but the idea that this is Nourrys strategy is well off the mark. He is right place right time to execute the Sunderland style model, and whilst the Dev squad have made some interesting signings on paper, the proof will be in the pudding. Right now it is potential and nothing more. If the likes of Esquedinha, O’Brien, Bennie, et al make it, then we are making progress, as would Nourry in his role.
As for those younger acquisitions and investments in the first team, again the jury is out on that. Time will tell. For every Varane and Morrison, it is cancelled out by Celar and Madsen, right now.
"Ruben is also fully driving the strategy for our u23 transfer investment / emerging talent model"
"And to be fair to Nourry he is executing against that ownership strategy, but the idea that this is Nourrys strategy is well off the mark. "
Hi 1JD,
Where's this info coming from?
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 18:56 - Jun 4 by stainrods_elbow
A 'thanks for the constructive criticism' probably would have done the job, but 'hey ho'!
[Post edited 4 Jun 18:59]
Thanks for the constructive criticism
You are so knowledgeable and level headed. I have a lot to learn and given your abilities to remain level headed and never throwing out any insults to all and sundry, you sir are indeed an icon.
We all bow down to how fair and reasonable you are !!!
In fact for me You are almost god like in your ways The words "aware" and "self: come to mind.
However thank you Stainrod. My elbow is well and truly reset !!!! Thank you so so much for showing me how to be nice and fair. What a guy you are !!
So anything that could be considered a positive in the last 18 months pre-dates Nourry or is being driven by someone else. However BAD things are all down to Nourry.
We are blessed to be living in a golden age of In The Know wisdom.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 22:45 - Jun 4 with 539 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 22:30 - Jun 4 by Ned_Kennedys
So anything that could be considered a positive in the last 18 months pre-dates Nourry or is being driven by someone else. However BAD things are all down to Nourry.
We are blessed to be living in a golden age of In The Know wisdom.
I think most though not all of the posts on this thread have been fairly balanced to be honest. He's done some good stuff and some bad. If you call that a wash then what tips people into the more frustrated side is the fact that if you're going to keep all the information to yourself under the guise of "competitive advantage" then you're setting yourself up to require a hit rate of above average in order for people to be content.
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 22:49 - Jun 4 with 518 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 22:30 - Jun 4 by Ned_Kennedys
So anything that could be considered a positive in the last 18 months pre-dates Nourry or is being driven by someone else. However BAD things are all down to Nourry.
We are blessed to be living in a golden age of In The Know wisdom.
I have absolutely zero inside knowledge, I can only say what I see and feel as a fan. I remain totally uncomfortable with Nourry's appointment. I disagree vehemently with his pushing out of Cifuentes, I disagree with his approach to not reveal contract lengths. I like what he is saying about the women's team so far (tentatively) and going for young signings through the DS looks good to me. I have no idea what his involvement was with Celar and Madsen, two terrible signings, or his role in the excellent signings of Varane, Morrison and Edwards.
I abhor his drivel-speak in press releases, and that he seems to be trying to influence social media and boards.
Overall - I think he's a bit of a prat, out of his depth, and as that is based on no claim of insider knowledge, I hope you agree I am allowed to have that opinion.
[Post edited 4 Jun 22:50]
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Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 22:59 - Jun 4 with 487 views
Would you want the club to re instate Marti Cifuentes ?? on 22:09 - Jun 4 by BrianMcCarthy
"Ruben is also fully driving the strategy for our u23 transfer investment / emerging talent model"
"And to be fair to Nourry he is executing against that ownership strategy, but the idea that this is Nourrys strategy is well off the mark. "
Hi 1JD,
Where's this info coming from?
Hi Brian- I’ve previously wrote on here before in a similar vein, but won’t and can’t divulge sources. There are a few on this message board that clearly have an inside track for one reason or another. That I can see, and I think those that are following closely can also see that. But as ever, people can also take it or leave it.
On another topic, which I know you are personally interested in, is category 1 academy. That has been planned for some time. And nowhere near the multi millions of additional investment required. We are quite literally there in infrastructure, the dome is the last piece of the jigsaw, but we can also get by renting the dome across the road. Plans are however, to build the dome in a phase 2 training ground investment. Main costs for cat 1, considering we can or will meet infrastructure, are in fact mandatory staffing costs at approx 500k of additional investment. That is nowhere near what most fans think, and well within reach.
Lee Hoos, however, who is still heavily running the shop, only now from the luxury of a background seat - but with more power than ever, (despite him saying otherwise that he was moving back to America and couldn’t do the job any longer), doesn’t believe in it. But others do. Not sure where it lands short term. But the long term plan has been for cat 1, but now Hoos is back on the scene and frankly never left, that may have changed again.
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