| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? 10:25 - Aug 14 with 8834 views | AustrianHoop |
I know totally different players but as far as effective partnerships go... |  | | |  |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 23:29 - Aug 14 with 2384 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 11:42 - Aug 14 by bosh67 |
Clive, I'd like to point out that I didn't start this thread or it's title!   |
I was sort-of expecting you to sue for breach of copyright. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 06:26 - Aug 15 with 2253 views | AustrianHoop |
Interesting the way this thread has gone, the headline was intended as a bit of light hearted fun after the general feel good factor in particular after the Kone signing.
Clive Allen would have hated it if he had known I was in the crowd .he always seemed to miss a penalty when I was watching... | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 06:57 - Aug 15 with 2204 views | Gus_iom |
I'm imagining Poku, Dembele and Kone starting (Chair is a given, in this house), running defenders ragged, then 2 being replaced on 70 by the pace of Burrell and Smyth .
I like that. | |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 08:21 - Aug 15 with 2119 views | californiahoop |
Steady on, home grown royalty, loved Allen, in my opinion,QPR’s most clinical striker, Goddard, sold far to early, that partnership could have won us a trophy. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 09:37 - Aug 15 with 2059 views | Myke |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 08:21 - Aug 15 by californiahoop |
Steady on, home grown royalty, loved Allen, in my opinion,QPR’s most clinical striker, Goddard, sold far to early, that partnership could have won us a trophy. |
I think the 2 transfers that upset me most as a kid/teenager were Parks and Goddard. Never liked West Ham since as a result | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 10:58 - Aug 15 with 1988 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 08:21 - Aug 15 by californiahoop |
Steady on, home grown royalty, loved Allen, in my opinion,QPR’s most clinical striker, Goddard, sold far to early, that partnership could have won us a trophy. |
I'm definitely not digging out Clive Allen.
As you rightly say he is homegrown royalty.
I'm old enough to remember the 17 year-old Allen scoring a hattrick against Coventry on his debut in 1979.
And the following season in the old Second Division Allen and Goddard got the thick end of fifty goals between them - no pressure Richard and Rumarn!!
How Tommy Docherty didn't get us promoted that season I will never know.
My basic point was that Allen was neither tall nor quick and in the modern game he would have struggled to get to the top and definitely wouldn't go for the sort of silly money that the really big clubs spend on players.
For comparison let's look at Charlie Kelman.
I'm not for one second suggesting Kelman is fit to lace Clive Allen's boots.
But both players have the same basic attributes:
- Not quick
- Not tall
- But good finishers
Charlie Kelman was the top scorer in the whole of the EFL last season.
That's no small achievement.
But even with that on his CV it was the likes of Luton and Charlton who were sniffing around this summer when we were listening to offers.
No interest from parachute money teams.
Definitely no interest from the PL.
OK, if Kelman bags 20 for Charlton this season he might get some interest from the parachute money teams next summer.
But in the modern game and at the top level strikers need to contribute more than "just" goals. I don't think Kelman has that in him, and I'm not sure even Clive Allen at his peak had it either.
BTW - it would be nice if the club website could get its facts right. Allen was 17 on debut, not 18 as the club site says:
"QPR 5-1 Coventry City – April 28th 1979
A struggling QPR side welcomed Coventry City to Loftus Road in late April 1979, as they looked to finish a disappointing campaign on a more positive note.
Eighteen-year-old Clive Allen, who was making his First Division debut, grabbed the headlines with his hat-trick helping seal a memorable victory in W12."
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/features/memorable-matches-coventry-city-130423/ [Post edited 15 Aug 11:22]
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 12:40 - Aug 15 with 1901 views | CamberleyR |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 10:58 - Aug 15 by KensalT |
I'm definitely not digging out Clive Allen.
As you rightly say he is homegrown royalty.
I'm old enough to remember the 17 year-old Allen scoring a hattrick against Coventry on his debut in 1979.
And the following season in the old Second Division Allen and Goddard got the thick end of fifty goals between them - no pressure Richard and Rumarn!!
How Tommy Docherty didn't get us promoted that season I will never know.
My basic point was that Allen was neither tall nor quick and in the modern game he would have struggled to get to the top and definitely wouldn't go for the sort of silly money that the really big clubs spend on players.
For comparison let's look at Charlie Kelman.
I'm not for one second suggesting Kelman is fit to lace Clive Allen's boots.
But both players have the same basic attributes:
- Not quick
- Not tall
- But good finishers
Charlie Kelman was the top scorer in the whole of the EFL last season.
That's no small achievement.
But even with that on his CV it was the likes of Luton and Charlton who were sniffing around this summer when we were listening to offers.
No interest from parachute money teams.
Definitely no interest from the PL.
OK, if Kelman bags 20 for Charlton this season he might get some interest from the parachute money teams next summer.
But in the modern game and at the top level strikers need to contribute more than "just" goals. I don't think Kelman has that in him, and I'm not sure even Clive Allen at his peak had it either.
BTW - it would be nice if the club website could get its facts right. Allen was 17 on debut, not 18 as the club site says:
"QPR 5-1 Coventry City – April 28th 1979
A struggling QPR side welcomed Coventry City to Loftus Road in late April 1979, as they looked to finish a disappointing campaign on a more positive note.
Eighteen-year-old Clive Allen, who was making his First Division debut, grabbed the headlines with his hat-trick helping seal a memorable victory in W12."
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/features/memorable-matches-coventry-city-130423/ [Post edited 15 Aug 11:22]
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Don't wish to be pedant of the year but the Coventry game was his full debut as a starting player. He'd made half a dozen appearances earlier that season as substitute, his actual first time wearing the hoops was at home against the SW6 pikies at LR in November 1978. [Post edited 15 Aug 12:45]
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 11:46 - Oct 8 with 1500 views | AustrianHoop |
Remember this thread? Any change on the subject? | | | |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 13:36 - Oct 8 with 1364 views | bosh67 |
I would like to put it on record Clive that I did not start or title this thread. |  |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 18:54 - Oct 8 with 1240 views | stevenagehoop |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 10:58 - Aug 15 by KensalT |
I'm definitely not digging out Clive Allen.
As you rightly say he is homegrown royalty.
I'm old enough to remember the 17 year-old Allen scoring a hattrick against Coventry on his debut in 1979.
And the following season in the old Second Division Allen and Goddard got the thick end of fifty goals between them - no pressure Richard and Rumarn!!
How Tommy Docherty didn't get us promoted that season I will never know.
My basic point was that Allen was neither tall nor quick and in the modern game he would have struggled to get to the top and definitely wouldn't go for the sort of silly money that the really big clubs spend on players.
For comparison let's look at Charlie Kelman.
I'm not for one second suggesting Kelman is fit to lace Clive Allen's boots.
But both players have the same basic attributes:
- Not quick
- Not tall
- But good finishers
Charlie Kelman was the top scorer in the whole of the EFL last season.
That's no small achievement.
But even with that on his CV it was the likes of Luton and Charlton who were sniffing around this summer when we were listening to offers.
No interest from parachute money teams.
Definitely no interest from the PL.
OK, if Kelman bags 20 for Charlton this season he might get some interest from the parachute money teams next summer.
But in the modern game and at the top level strikers need to contribute more than "just" goals. I don't think Kelman has that in him, and I'm not sure even Clive Allen at his peak had it either.
BTW - it would be nice if the club website could get its facts right. Allen was 17 on debut, not 18 as the club site says:
"QPR 5-1 Coventry City – April 28th 1979
A struggling QPR side welcomed Coventry City to Loftus Road in late April 1979, as they looked to finish a disappointing campaign on a more positive note.
Eighteen-year-old Clive Allen, who was making his First Division debut, grabbed the headlines with his hat-trick helping seal a memorable victory in W12."
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/features/memorable-matches-coventry-city-130423/ [Post edited 15 Aug 11:22]
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You are right in saying that Kelman wasnt fit to lace his boots but Allen was a true goalscorer.
Jimmy Greaves wasn’t fast or tall neither was Denis Law but they could finish and so could Allen. In my opinion all three would rightly cost a fortune in todays market. |  |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 19:13 - Oct 8 with 1185 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 13:55 - Aug 14 by KensalT |
I ran the Allen fee from 1980 through Google Gemini and it reckoned that would now be £6,270,000 in 2025 prices:
"Based on the Bank of England's inflation calculator, £1,250,000 in 1980 would be worth approximately £6,270,000 in 2025. This figure is based on the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and is used to show the effect of inflation on the purchasing power of money over time." |
Which means little in footballing terms, as inflation in the industry has skyrocketed since then as a law unto itself. If a 19-year-old Allen were being moved on now, it would be for a high multiple of tens of millions. |  |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 19:50 - Oct 8 with 1129 views | Loyalitat |
Dream on | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 19:56 - Oct 8 with 1113 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 11:46 - Oct 8 by AustrianHoop |
Remember this thread? Any change on the subject? |
To put things in context:
Allen and Goddard had spent years developing a relationship in the reserves. They had also just dropped down to the second tier when they tore the league up in 79/80.
Kone and Burrell have just been thrown together and spent last season playing in the third tier.
Kone and Burrell look great and I hope for great things, but I think it's asking a bit much expecting them to have the same impact as Allen and Goddard.
Let them find their own way and hopefully make their own history. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:01 - Oct 8 with 1099 views | Pindarus |
The best striking duo were the terrible twins, Jim Towers and George Francis that we snapped up from Brentford for £8000 in 1961.
And yes, I have seen them. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:05 - Oct 8 with 1090 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 18:54 - Oct 8 by stevenagehoop |
You are right in saying that Kelman wasnt fit to lace his boots but Allen was a true goalscorer.
Jimmy Greaves wasn’t fast or tall neither was Denis Law but they could finish and so could Allen. In my opinion all three would rightly cost a fortune in todays market. |
I think the young Jimmy Greaves did have a fair bit of pace.
Not so sure about Law.
Greaves had 44 goals in 57 international appearances.
Law had 30 goals in 55 internationals.
Clive Allen never scored for England.
The point I was making about Allen was that he was a good player in his day but the game has changed and he wouldn't be signed by one of the big clubs that pay big money in the modern game.
And looking back Allen never won the league and never played for the biggest clubs in his era.
Greaves and Law did.
So I'm sticking to my guns on this. And don't get me wrong I do like Allen, but he would never have been a £100m+ striker. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:20 - Oct 8 with 1035 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 19:13 - Oct 8 by stainrods_elbow |
Which means little in footballing terms, as inflation in the industry has skyrocketed since then as a law unto itself. If a 19-year-old Allen were being moved on now, it would be for a high multiple of tens of millions. |
You started by saying Allen would be a £100m striker in the modern game.
You've now dropped to the "tens of millions".
Losing the courage of your convictions Elbow?
Since we have been through this already I will repeat my earlier challenge to you.
Show me a striker who was:
- Not particularly tall
- Not particularly quick
- Had no international goals
- And went in a £100m+ deal
Show me a striker with all of those attributes and I will admit that you are right. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:34 - Oct 8 with 1003 views | Hastings_Hoops |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 13:41 - Aug 14 by Esox_Lucius |
Could be the new Penrice & Brock? |
Could be the new Marsh and Gallen. |  | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:43 - Oct 8 with 984 views | Stanisgod |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:12 - Aug 14 by stainrods_elbow |
Ludicrous - Allen scored 49 goals in 1986/7 for Spuds, which was a club record, not to mention 72 goals in less than 140 games in his two spells for us. Nearly 200 goals in barely 400 games tells its own story. Very few have surpassed those stats in the modern era, apart from the likes of Harry Kane (whose own lack of pace has hardly held him up with England). If Tottenham had sold him to another top club at his peak in the modern market, you'd have been looking at £100m. He was certainly as good as Lineker, whose Tottenham and career-long stats are similar and probably technically better. (Could you imagine GL scoring 'that' goal at West Ham?) |
Yeah but he had no pace apparently  |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:55 - Oct 8 with 960 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:12 - Aug 14 by stainrods_elbow |
Ludicrous - Allen scored 49 goals in 1986/7 for Spuds, which was a club record, not to mention 72 goals in less than 140 games in his two spells for us. Nearly 200 goals in barely 400 games tells its own story. Very few have surpassed those stats in the modern era, apart from the likes of Harry Kane (whose own lack of pace has hardly held him up with England). If Tottenham had sold him to another top club at his peak in the modern market, you'd have been looking at £100m. He was certainly as good as Lineker, whose Tottenham and career-long stats are similar and probably technically better. (Could you imagine GL scoring 'that' goal at West Ham?) |
Kane is 6' 2" and 86kg
Allen was 5' 10"
I don't know how tall you are but 6' 2" is tall in my book
https://fcbayern.com/en/teams/first-team/harry-kane | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 22:36 - Oct 8 with 860 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:20 - Oct 8 by KensalT |
You started by saying Allen would be a £100m striker in the modern game.
You've now dropped to the "tens of millions".
Losing the courage of your convictions Elbow?
Since we have been through this already I will repeat my earlier challenge to you.
Show me a striker who was:
- Not particularly tall
- Not particularly quick
- Had no international goals
- And went in a £100m+ deal
Show me a striker with all of those attributes and I will admit that you are right. |
I've no interest in 'proving' anything (it's a game of opinions, not exact science) according to your ridiculously self-serving/overloaded criteria, but just to put this one to bed as you keep biting . . .
Tens of millions - and maybe ten tens, OK?
Allen scored 49 goals for Spurs in 1986 -87, comfortably beating Jimmy Greaves' record, and no one has touched it since, including Harry Kane at his peak. The game might have changed a bit since then, but not that much. You're telling me he wouldn't have torn a new arse in the Premiership? Do me a favour!
Finally, if you want a modern analogue, I give you our very own home-grown Mr Eze. Same height as Allen (which you seem to oddly fetishise - I don't think that stopped Jimmy Greaves or Denis Law or Michael Owen), not especially fast (though quick-footed), a single goal for England, and a much lower goalscoring ratio to Clive. Went to Arsenal recently, in case you hadn't heard, for, what was it, let me see, er, that's right . . . . £67.5m (with add-ons). (Kerching to the Rs, in case you also hadn't heard.)
I rest my case, and hopefully you'll finally rest yours. [Post edited 8 Oct 22:38]
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 22:58 - Oct 8 with 818 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 22:36 - Oct 8 by stainrods_elbow |
I've no interest in 'proving' anything (it's a game of opinions, not exact science) according to your ridiculously self-serving/overloaded criteria, but just to put this one to bed as you keep biting . . .
Tens of millions - and maybe ten tens, OK?
Allen scored 49 goals for Spurs in 1986 -87, comfortably beating Jimmy Greaves' record, and no one has touched it since, including Harry Kane at his peak. The game might have changed a bit since then, but not that much. You're telling me he wouldn't have torn a new arse in the Premiership? Do me a favour!
Finally, if you want a modern analogue, I give you our very own home-grown Mr Eze. Same height as Allen (which you seem to oddly fetishise - I don't think that stopped Jimmy Greaves or Denis Law or Michael Owen), not especially fast (though quick-footed), a single goal for England, and a much lower goalscoring ratio to Clive. Went to Arsenal recently, in case you hadn't heard, for, what was it, let me see, er, that's right . . . . £67.5m (with add-ons). (Kerching to the Rs, in case you also hadn't heard.)
I rest my case, and hopefully you'll finally rest yours. [Post edited 8 Oct 22:38]
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Eze:
- Not a striker
- Not £100m (the figure you proposed as a benchmark)
I really don't see how this can be described as self-serving.
I will repeat the point as your (self) professed mighty intellect can't seem to grasp it:
- It's a comment on the modern game and how things have changed
- It is not a criticism of Clive Allen
You haven't made a case to rest. | | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 01:48 - Oct 9 with 703 views | DylanP |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 20:49 - Aug 14 by KensalT |
I didn't say Allen wasn't good. He was an outstanding finisher.
I said he wasn't in the silly money bracket.
I said he wasn't quick. Which he wasn't.
Having looked at his wiki he was 5' 10". So he wasn't tall either.
If you can point to a short, slow striker with no international goals who went for more than £100m then fair enough, I will agree with you! [Post edited 14 Aug 20:49]
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Let's see, when it comes to strikers sold at a really young age without having really proven themselves or scored goals at the highest level or for their national team, Mbappe and Felix jump to mind.
Mbappe was sold to PSG for £154M at the age of 18 having only had one breakout season and with no major international impact yet
Felix was sold to Atletico Madrid at 19 for £108M after just one full season in Portugal and being unproven in top leagues. His initial transfer fee made him one of the most expensive teenagers ever, but his performances have rarely justified the fee. |  |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 08:58 - Oct 9 with 548 views | TheChef |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 22:58 - Oct 8 by KensalT |
Eze:
- Not a striker
- Not £100m (the figure you proposed as a benchmark)
I really don't see how this can be described as self-serving.
I will repeat the point as your (self) professed mighty intellect can't seem to grasp it:
- It's a comment on the modern game and how things have changed
- It is not a criticism of Clive Allen
You haven't made a case to rest. |
Well yeah but we all wish he/she/they would give it a rest  |  |
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| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 09:18 - Oct 9 with 528 views | SW_Ranger |
I was sold for £13 a week to a printing works in Hayes for 5-year slavery (apprenticeship). Was only 5’10” and scored one goal for Harefield Rubber FC. I felt I was definitely worth £50 in todays transfer market. Who’s this Felix guy? Never worked a proper job in his life! |  | | |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 09:43 - Oct 9 with 459 views | KensalT |
| Kone/Burrell-the New Allen/Goddard? on 01:48 - Oct 9 by DylanP |
Let's see, when it comes to strikers sold at a really young age without having really proven themselves or scored goals at the highest level or for their national team, Mbappe and Felix jump to mind.
Mbappe was sold to PSG for £154M at the age of 18 having only had one breakout season and with no major international impact yet
Felix was sold to Atletico Madrid at 19 for £108M after just one full season in Portugal and being unproven in top leagues. His initial transfer fee made him one of the most expensive teenagers ever, but his performances have rarely justified the fee. |
One of my "overloaded" criteria was lack of pace.
Mbappe is one of the quickest around!
Joao Felix does look like a good shout. But look a bit closer:
- Does have 11 international goals, although I don't think he had any when he got his big move to Atletico
- Does have pace. Not as quick as Mbappe (not many are) but definitely can shift
- Six foot tall so not as tall as a Kane but definitely taller than Allen or Kelman
- Some websites describe him as an attacking midfielder or second striker rather than an out-and-out striker like Allen.
So I'm not convinced but Felix is a good shout. | | | |
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