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Yeh but no but, in the year of, I made the decision to, it was a mistake, but yes but no. Cummings eat your heart out. Human beings will never change will they left or right. Didn't she make a huge thing about tax avoidance and tax dodgers before the election?
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 11:46 - Sep 4 by Sadoldgit
Did the people calling out Raynor now call out the long list of Tory transgressors (including Johnson) over the last few years? Iâm guessing not. Even is she has made a genuine mistake, her position now is untenable, but letâs not pretend that this is worse than the Zahawi situation, the multiple PPE scams and other countless Tory grifts. Apparently she had three different advisers telling her that she was paying the correct amount, but letâs not worry about the facts if we can give a âleftyâ a good kicking eh?
Oh boo hoo.
She's the deputy Prime Minister FFS.
Next you'll be telling us she's being treated unfairly because...sob...sniffle... she's a 'woman'.
Old Skool is Cool
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 14:49 - Sep 4 with 1057 views
First, she has not avoided the tax, she's paid it.
Second, there is no suggestion that she tried to avoid the tax. She did as her advisers told her.
Third, she can only really be culpable if she failed to give the advisers the correct or full information or did give them that detail, had advice that the liability was ÂŁX and then paid a lower sum
Zahawi had a full blown HMRC enquiry in which he was fined over ÂŁ1m for deliberately concealing information.
Johnson was found to have lied to Parliament.
Cameron benefits from a trust set up by his family which he "forgot" about.
Ashcroft (peer and Tory party donor/treasurer) claims residence in Belize despite having at least two houses in the UK.
Time I think that hysteria gave way to a sense of proportion and a few facts.
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 14:52 - Sep 4 with 1055 views
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 12:09 - Sep 4 by Chesham_Saint
Fair points Sogs, but...
It might be no worse than Zahari - but she called him out big time and demanded he should go. Hence the stench of hypocrisy around this.
Also, relying on advisers is not necessarily a great defence for someone in charge of housing.
We must remember too that the advice any adviser gives is completely reliant on the information received from the client. This will have been made clear in any appointment letter, together with various disclaimers about not giving advice on issues outside their remit (such as tax) with a recommendation the client seeks appropriate specialist advice.
Whichever way we cut it, Ange is in a tight spot...
I see where you are coming from Chesham Saint.
However, according to the B B C Website today, she took the advice of an expert in Conveyancing and two legal experts regarding Trusts before proceeding with the purchase and subsequent payment of Stamp Duty.
Who amongst us ( Deputy Prime Minister or Road Sweeper) placed in a similar position having received expert advice from three different sources would then decide to ignore such advice ?
To me the whole affair hinges on the content of your penultimate paragraph. If she knowingly withheld information from those she asked for advice so as to benefit financially then she is toast, if not, then I find it hard to see what she has done wrong. Particularly given that she took the trouble to apply to a court to make details of the trust public and then on the advice of a K C immediately agreed to pay HMRC what he considered was still owed.
As a side issue and correct me if Iâm wrong, but some media messaging appears to suggest she paid no Stamp Duty. Isnât the reality that Stamp Duty was in fact paid but simply at the incorrect rate ?
Politics, it really does bring the worst out in people dunnit. You man is bad. Yeah but yours did the same. No he didn't, it was different. Come on FFS grow up people. They all try to use the positions and get away with stuff, every last one of them.
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 15:11 - Sep 4 with 1039 views
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 14:54 - Sep 4 by jopreston
Politics, it really does bring the worst out in people dunnit. You man is bad. Yeah but yours did the same. No he didn't, it was different. Come on FFS grow up people. They all try to use the positions and get away with stuff, every last one of them.
jopreston, do you honestly think that all 650 members of Parliament are purely in it for what they can make from it ?
A salary of ÂŁ94000 to have to deal with with complaints of thousands of moaning constituents day in and day out whilst constantly being open to written, verbal and in some cases physical abuse resulting in death is why they want to do it ?
Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, after all we still live in a democracy which without Parliament and those within it probably wouldnât exist. Now there is an irony.
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 15:11 - Sep 4 by saintmark1976
jopreston, do you honestly think that all 650 members of Parliament are purely in it for what they can make from it ?
A salary of ÂŁ94000 to have to deal with with complaints of thousands of moaning constituents day in and day out whilst constantly being open to written, verbal and in some cases physical abuse resulting in death is why they want to do it ?
Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, after all we still live in a democracy which without Parliament and those within it probably wouldnât exist. Now there is an irony.
OK, so not as yet no. Of those 650, there will be some that are in it for the right reasons, AT THIS TIME. Trouble is, the higher up you go, the harder it becomes to resist the fruits being offered. On top of that, I believe it is likely that you will not be allowed to climb the tree unless you accept the way of things. When they get to the highest levels, yes they are all in it for themselves 100%.
The thing is, they don't just earn their salary. They are all people with other business interests etc. The position they seek is only to make things better/easier for their own business and that of people they deal with, not at all for the salary. Cynical but absolutely true, of that I have no doubt.
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 15:50 - Sep 4 with 996 views
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 15:43 - Sep 4 by jopreston
OK, so not as yet no. Of those 650, there will be some that are in it for the right reasons, AT THIS TIME. Trouble is, the higher up you go, the harder it becomes to resist the fruits being offered. On top of that, I believe it is likely that you will not be allowed to climb the tree unless you accept the way of things. When they get to the highest levels, yes they are all in it for themselves 100%.
The thing is, they don't just earn their salary. They are all people with other business interests etc. The position they seek is only to make things better/easier for their own business and that of people they deal with, not at all for the salary. Cynical but absolutely true, of that I have no doubt.
Sorry Jo, how can they ALL be people with "other business interests"? Isn't the claim that none of the Gov front has any business experience whatsoever false then?
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 15:50 - Sep 4 by Chesham_Saint
Sorry Jo, how can they ALL be people with "other business interests"? Isn't the claim that none of the Gov front has any business experience whatsoever false then?
IN a word yes. Remember the Tory minister(s) with interests in certain PPE companies?
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 14:54 - Sep 4 by jopreston
Politics, it really does bring the worst out in people dunnit. You man is bad. Yeah but yours did the same. No he didn't, it was different. Come on FFS grow up people. They all try to use the positions and get away with stuff, every last one of them.
Thatâs exactly how I see it.
Only in it for themselves, claiming as many expenses as they can get away with ( with in the all too generous rules)
They are meant to be a position of trust and represent us, I wouldnât trust any off them.
If this was the Conservatives when in power labour would be all over them demanding the sacking / resignation.
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 22:17 - Sep 4 with 827 views
The only people who truly believe she made a mistake due to wrong advice and that it was at all her intention to do this, are staunch labour supporters. Of course, when a Tory does similar we all know what their opinion is.
I would like to see Reform win an election just to see if their people would be just as bad once being in a position of power. I am pretty sure they would. I like some of what Farage says, but I cannot trust him. I just don't believe in him sadly. He is dodgy, I am quite sure of it.
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 09:41 - Sep 5 with 571 views
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 07:39 - Sep 5 by jopreston
The only people who truly believe she made a mistake due to wrong advice and that it was at all her intention to do this, are staunch labour supporters. Of course, when a Tory does similar we all know what their opinion is.
I would like to see Reform win an election just to see if their people would be just as bad once being in a position of power. I am pretty sure they would. I like some of what Farage says, but I cannot trust him. I just don't believe in him sadly. He is dodgy, I am quite sure of it.
Whether she made a mistake based on poor advice or knew what she was doing doesnât really make a difference. She must own it and will almost certainly be sacked or will resign. When she looks in the mirror the real question she should ask is why, as a working class person, has she been an integral part of deliberate attempt to destroy the parties roots and betray the very people itâs supposed to represent. Labour seems more intent on arresting people for waving flags than tackling inequality and injustice.
As for Farage - a few minutes researching this charlatan will show you what he is about and what a disaster it will be if he is elected as PM.
ââŹĹLife has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously'
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 10:09 - Sep 5 by Heisenberg
Whether she made a mistake based on poor advice or knew what she was doing doesnât really make a difference. She must own it and will almost certainly be sacked or will resign. When she looks in the mirror the real question she should ask is why, as a working class person, has she been an integral part of deliberate attempt to destroy the parties roots and betray the very people itâs supposed to represent. Labour seems more intent on arresting people for waving flags than tackling inequality and injustice.
As for Farage - a few minutes researching this charlatan will show you what he is about and what a disaster it will be if he is elected as PM.
With regards to Farage, I have to confess I have not read up on him so much, I just don't like him for some reason. I don't trust him. I don't think he care one jot about the average man on the street anymore than the others. He just says what needs to be said in order for him to gain power and popularity. I would rather Zia Yusuf was running reform. He seems a very intelligent and articulate man.
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 12:03 - Sep 5 with 424 views
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 14:49 - Sep 4 by saint901
First, she has not avoided the tax, she's paid it.
Second, there is no suggestion that she tried to avoid the tax. She did as her advisers told her.
Third, she can only really be culpable if she failed to give the advisers the correct or full information or did give them that detail, had advice that the liability was ÂŁX and then paid a lower sum
Zahawi had a full blown HMRC enquiry in which he was fined over ÂŁ1m for deliberately concealing information.
Johnson was found to have lied to Parliament.
Cameron benefits from a trust set up by his family which he "forgot" about.
Ashcroft (peer and Tory party donor/treasurer) claims residence in Belize despite having at least two houses in the UK.
Time I think that hysteria gave way to a sense of proportion and a few facts.
Old Skool is Cool
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Little Britain Angela Raynor on 13:18 - Sep 5 with 344 views
She's resigned. So the person who lectured many others in how to serve the country with integrity and honesty, does exactly the opposite herself. That's human nature for you. Total hypocrite.
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 13:18 - Sep 5 by Southamptonfan
She's resigned. So the person who lectured many others in how to serve the country with integrity and honesty, does exactly the opposite herself. That's human nature for you. Total hypocrite.
Interesting enough it now appears that had she waited six months before buying her flat in Hove her disabled son would have reached 18 years of age, at which point under the rules of his trust her interest in his home would have passed to him in its entirety.
Thereafter she could have purchased the flat ( or similar ) and the Stamp Duty she has paid would cause no problem whatsoever.
Silly mistake but then again we have all made them.
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 13:33 - Sep 5 by saintmark1976
Interesting enough it now appears that had she waited six months before buying her flat in Hove her disabled son would have reached 18 years of age, at which point under the rules of his trust her interest in his home would have passed to him in its entirety.
Thereafter she could have purchased the flat ( or similar ) and the Stamp Duty she has paid would cause no problem whatsoever.
Silly mistake but then again we have all made them.
The housing minister and deputy prime minister who fiercely lectured others on paying their taxes, she should also know the rules of her department, should not not be making "silly mistakes".
It shows why people have totally lost faith in politics, when even Labour are making "silly mistakes". But people are people everywhere you go. Not a single person in this world doesn't want to save money where they can, except she pretended she would play by the rules.
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 13:40 - Sep 5 by Southamptonfan
The housing minister and deputy prime minister who fiercely lectured others on paying their taxes, she should also know the rules of her department, should not not be making "silly mistakes".
It shows why people have totally lost faith in politics, when even Labour are making "silly mistakes". But people are people everywhere you go. Not a single person in this world doesn't want to save money where they can, except she pretended she would play by the rules.
[Post edited 5 Sep 13:43]
Doesnât add up financially though Southamptonfan does it.
Wait six months and keep your job and all the salary and perks that go with it until the next general election which is probably three years away or buy the flat now and loose your job and perks for the sake of ÂŁ40,000.
Iâm happy to run with what she has done as a silly mistake and you appear happy that itâs been done intentionally. The only person who really knows is the woman herself.
On Saints and footballing matters in general Iâve noticed that our views are usually very similar, on this one it looks like we are simply going to have to agree to disagree.
Little Britain Angela Raynor on 14:27 - Sep 5 by saintmark1976
Doesnât add up financially though Southamptonfan does it.
Wait six months and keep your job and all the salary and perks that go with it until the next general election which is probably three years away or buy the flat now and loose your job and perks for the sake of ÂŁ40,000.
Iâm happy to run with what she has done as a silly mistake and you appear happy that itâs been done intentionally. The only person who really knows is the woman herself.
On Saints and footballing matters in general Iâve noticed that our views are usually very similar, on this one it looks like we are simply going to have to agree to disagree.
Can the working class idol now be someone who actually represents the hard working, smart working class which I know.
Working class people are not dumb and they play by the rules. My parents were working class people who worked hard and got an education. Rayner, by contrast, is pretty thick, owns 3 houses, and doesnât pay tax. Sheâs a disgrace to the âworking classâ and any use to show her up as the working class figurehead is a joke.
Anyone else feel a bit patronised when they call this thick woman the working class spokesperson?
[Post edited 3 Sep 13:21]
The "Working Class" are just people with the same failings and weaknesses as any other artificial social demarcation - I don't subscribe to this salt of the earth patronage any more than I would define working class membership in terms of things like a cor blimey accent or dress, like a Harry Enfield parody of a Kwik FIt Fitter. FOr what it's worth Angela Rayner was guilty of naiively hoping that keeping low or a week would allow things to blow over. She's not a criminal, and she isn't so stupid as to imagine she could get away with underpaying tax. It's clear that she did receive advice from somebody and those who gave it are now running and hiding like cowards, lest they pick up any of the odure rebounding off the VentAxia. Her mistake was not to get unequivocal professional advice in writing. Every politician knows sthat every action they take will be subject to minute scrutiny, Rayner especially - they may be foolish, miscalculating or even stupid but wilfully fraudulent? No.
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