| FFP 2024 09:03 - Jan 17 with 9294 views | baz_qpr |
We are starting to see accounts being published, I saw 2 this morning on Twitter from Kieran Maguire
Luton £21m operating loss Revenue 18.4m wages 27.6m - How on earth they would have made the 3 year cycle is anyones guess
Preston Operating loss £15m (£20m last year) Wages £21.5m against revenue of £15.5m
I have to say I dont really understand how these clubs are not breaching or will not breach this year or if not now next year.
These are supposed to be 2 of the well run ones |  | | |  |
| FFP 2024 on 09:05 - Jan 17 with 7525 views | enfieldargh |
PNE have wealthy benefactors who pump in millions although not sure how they offset this against P&S |  |
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| FFP 2024 on 09:08 - Jan 17 with 7500 views | Kensal_Ranger |
Maybe everyone should breach, just to show the ‘authorities’ how ridiculous and unworkable it really has become. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 09:32 - Jan 17 with 7391 views | Hunterhoop |
Both probably have breached. Can’t see how Preston won’t have if the last two seasons are a 15m and 20m loss. However, not seen the year’s before.
If the EFL pull their finger out, the clubs should get deductions in this season due to breaches for previous seasons (which these are). Luton are untouchable now, but Preston and others won’t be.
Sadly, I suspect 10 points won’t be enough to help us out! Equally, we may have also breached. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 09:35 - Jan 17 with 7348 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
Has anyone sold the sponsorship for FFP spreadsheets yet? |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 09:41 - Jan 17 with 7319 views | Northernr |
| FFP 2024 on 09:32 - Jan 17 by Hunterhoop |
Both probably have breached. Can’t see how Preston won’t have if the last two seasons are a 15m and 20m loss. However, not seen the year’s before.
If the EFL pull their finger out, the clubs should get deductions in this season due to breaches for previous seasons (which these are). Luton are untouchable now, but Preston and others won’t be.
Sadly, I suspect 10 points won’t be enough to help us out! Equally, we may have also breached. |
Disallowable costs will be the answer. Swiss Ramble basically allows 4.5m-5m each season on average, which reduces PNE's loss to more like 10m and 15m.
Another club doing more than us with a lower wage bill than we've got.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 10:28 - Jan 17 with 7134 views | francisbowles |
| FFP 2024 on 09:32 - Jan 17 by Hunterhoop |
Both probably have breached. Can’t see how Preston won’t have if the last two seasons are a 15m and 20m loss. However, not seen the year’s before.
If the EFL pull their finger out, the clubs should get deductions in this season due to breaches for previous seasons (which these are). Luton are untouchable now, but Preston and others won’t be.
Sadly, I suspect 10 points won’t be enough to help us out! Equally, we may have also breached. |
If we breached last season, then all we have struggled with this season with recruitment and poor results, as well as, the sponsorship that suddenly appeared will have been in vain.
I hope and suspect we are ok for that period but it will be a close run thing this time next year. | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 10:51 - Jan 17 with 7001 views | stevec |
Is there a single other business where the employees are uniformly paid more than the companies income?
Beyond madness. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 11:06 - Jan 17 with 6979 views | BerkoRanger |
| FFP 2024 on 10:51 - Jan 17 by stevec |
Is there a single other business where the employees are uniformly paid more than the companies income?
Beyond madness. |
Is there a single other business where wealthy owners or investors are allowed to buy into that business but not allowed to invest or improve that business as they see fit?
Beyond madness - and how is this legal? | | | |
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| FFP 2024 on 11:11 - Jan 17 with 6942 views | dmm |
Is there any other sport that has FFP like restrictions on competing clubs/teams? |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 11:28 - Jan 17 with 6870 views | Third_Division_South |
I think Luton’s wage bill was that high due to promotion bonus payouts. | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 11:51 - Jan 17 with 6745 views | DavieQPR |
I always think that FFP should have a system like London Weighting. It cost a lot more for staff costs, rent. etc when comparing big cities than, say, Blackpool or Rotherham. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 11:58 - Jan 17 with 6727 views | Juzzie |
| FFP 2024 on 09:05 - Jan 17 by enfieldargh |
PNE have wealthy benefactors who pump in millions although not sure how they offset this against P&S |
They can't as FFP stops that. Can't be having pesky little clubs muscling in with the big boys due to wealthy backers (big clubs did that then they conviniently shut the door once achieved) |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 13:39 - Jan 17 with 6367 views | terryb |
| FFP 2024 on 11:11 - Jan 17 by dmm |
Is there any other sport that has FFP like restrictions on competing clubs/teams? |
I think Rugby Union has some restrictions., but I'm not sure what they are.
Saracens were definitely relegated for a breach, perhaps exceeding a maximum wage ceiling? | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 14:13 - Jan 17 with 6220 views | Northernr |
| FFP 2024 on 13:39 - Jan 17 by terryb |
I think Rugby Union has some restrictions., but I'm not sure what they are.
Saracens were definitely relegated for a breach, perhaps exceeding a maximum wage ceiling? |
Yes I think that's a salary cap, same as rugby league where the effect has been the same two or three teams win everything every year anyway, and all our talented players go off to the NRL which is now light years ahead of our competition, but there's a relatively small number of clubs go bust or into admin. | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 14:33 - Jan 17 with 6093 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| FFP 2024 on 10:51 - Jan 17 by stevec |
Is there a single other business where the employees are uniformly paid more than the companies income?
Beyond madness. |
Government? |  |
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| FFP 2024 on 14:34 - Jan 17 with 6078 views | Hunterhoop |
| FFP 2024 on 09:41 - Jan 17 by Northernr |
Disallowable costs will be the answer. Swiss Ramble basically allows 4.5m-5m each season on average, which reduces PNE's loss to more like 10m and 15m.
Another club doing more than us with a lower wage bill than we've got.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I was expecting this answer. However, even with that level of disallowable costs they’ll be sailing close to the wind depending on the prior season (and the current one we’re in for future reporting).
Also, I doubt their disallowable costs are as big as ours given their location compared to ours.
Besides, if Preston are that close to the wind, surely, SURELY, a few of Stoke, Boro, Brum, Blackburn, Hull, Cardiff, Swansea must be close?! | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 14:38 - Jan 17 with 6041 views | Northernr |
| FFP 2024 on 14:34 - Jan 17 by Hunterhoop |
I was expecting this answer. However, even with that level of disallowable costs they’ll be sailing close to the wind depending on the prior season (and the current one we’re in for future reporting).
Also, I doubt their disallowable costs are as big as ours given their location compared to ours.
Besides, if Preston are that close to the wind, surely, SURELY, a few of Stoke, Boro, Brum, Blackburn, Hull, Cardiff, Swansea must be close?! |
Agree on all points.
I think basically all the non parachute clubs in the league are skating very close to the line, bar a couple of outliers like Plymouth and Rotherham.
If Hull don't go up this year or next they're surely going to have chunky issues without a big sale or two.
Stoke have the Bet365 sponsorship con (£10m a season), and got something daft like £20m for Harry Souttar. | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 14:47 - Jan 17 with 5987 views | KensalT |
| FFP 2024 on 11:06 - Jan 17 by BerkoRanger |
Is there a single other business where wealthy owners or investors are allowed to buy into that business but not allowed to invest or improve that business as they see fit?
Beyond madness - and how is this legal? |
Most major American sports operate a salary cap, and that's in addition to the draft system that tries to ensure the best young players get distributed evenly across all teams instead of being hoarded by the wealthier clubs.
Baseball has a luxury tax which is a variant on the salary cap. Teams are allowed to exceed the salary cap but get "taxed" for doing so. Part of the taxed revenues are then distributed amongst teams that stuck to the cap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_luxury_tax
Not sure it would work in English football. Major American sports don't have promotion/relegation which greatly complicates matters, as does parachute payments. | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 14:51 - Jan 17 with 5974 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| FFP 2024 on 10:51 - Jan 17 by stevec |
Is there a single other business where the employees are uniformly paid more than the companies income?
Beyond madness. |
As football fans we only see ‘the business’ as a football club.
Owners see them as football clubs, real estate, foreign tv marketing vehicles, PR firms (see Newcastle), tax evasion schemes, and money launderettes.
Now I think of it, they are quite the bargain actually. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 16:53 - Jan 17 with 5726 views | SimonJames |
| FFP 2024 on 14:13 - Jan 17 by Northernr |
Yes I think that's a salary cap, same as rugby league where the effect has been the same two or three teams win everything every year anyway, and all our talented players go off to the NRL which is now light years ahead of our competition, but there's a relatively small number of clubs go bust or into admin. |
Northampton Rugby club recently published their financial results for 2022/23.
Turnover was £21.96m (a similar figure to recent QPR revenue)
Loss before tax was just £1.1m |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| FFP 2024 on 20:57 - Jan 17 with 5369 views | Spaceman_P |
I'm retarded because I think learning chinese would be easier than understanding FFP. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 23:05 - Jan 17 with 5184 views | bob566 |
| FFP 2024 on 11:51 - Jan 17 by DavieQPR |
I always think that FFP should have a system like London Weighting. It cost a lot more for staff costs, rent. etc when comparing big cities than, say, Blackpool or Rotherham. |
That's a really good point. | | | |
| FFP 2024 on 04:13 - Jan 18 with 5046 views | stowmarketrange |
| FFP 2024 on 10:28 - Jan 17 by francisbowles |
If we breached last season, then all we have struggled with this season with recruitment and poor results, as well as, the sponsorship that suddenly appeared will have been in vain.
I hope and suspect we are ok for that period but it will be a close run thing this time next year. |
I thought we would be ok for next year as this 3 year cycle includes the money spent on new players in warburton’s last pre season spree to get us promoted. |  | | |
| FFP 2024 on 06:36 - Jan 18 with 4962 views | johnhoop |
| FFP 2024 on 14:47 - Jan 17 by KensalT |
Most major American sports operate a salary cap, and that's in addition to the draft system that tries to ensure the best young players get distributed evenly across all teams instead of being hoarded by the wealthier clubs.
Baseball has a luxury tax which is a variant on the salary cap. Teams are allowed to exceed the salary cap but get "taxed" for doing so. Part of the taxed revenues are then distributed amongst teams that stuck to the cap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_luxury_tax
Not sure it would work in English football. Major American sports don't have promotion/relegation which greatly complicates matters, as does parachute payments. |
The plundering of lower division clubs’ young talent by the top six etc means it’s like the reverse of the American draft system here and nearly all the best young players are hoovered up by the top clubs. [Post edited 18 Jan 6:37]
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| FFP 2024 on 07:05 - Jan 18 with 4916 views | Northernr |
Here’s your Boro answer. A £29m loss reduced to a £6m loss. With disallowed costs well under. How/why? Player sales of £23m offsetting a loss of nearly £30m. Our problem is we haven’t sold anybody for any significant money since Eze. Boro’s next set will include the £10m they stole for Akpom so probs easily fine again.
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