| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise 07:54 - May 29 with 9491 views | AnotherJohn |
The resident doctors - the new term for doctors in the training grades - got a pay uplift of about 22% last year and are now demanding a further 29% rise this year.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/junior-doctors-seeking-almost-30-073732927.html
The forum was divided in its views last year. Some of us worried that such a generous pay deal would trigger a round of catch-up pay demands in the public sector, but I don't think anybody thought the doctors would come back for so much more so quickly. As a reminder, the present scale for the training grades in England runs from £36,616 to £70,425. Salaries for consultants, specialty and specialist doctors (SAS) and GPs go much higher. Thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 22:35 - Jul 15 with 698 views | Luther27 |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 20:28 - Jul 15 by Gwyn737 |
How much would you say is reasonable for someone who had accrued £125,000 in debt through university and has undertaken around 12 years of training to get to grade 6? |
If they’re not intelligent enough to work out the accumulated debt v future wages then I really don’t want a consultation of any one of them personally. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 23:05 - Jul 15 with 678 views | majorraglan |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 22:35 - Jul 15 by Luther27 |
If they’re not intelligent enough to work out the accumulated debt v future wages then I really don’t want a consultation of any one of them personally. |
What kind of answer is this, why don’t you answer Gwyn’s question? | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 23:13 - Jul 15 with 665 views | Luther27 |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 23:05 - Jul 15 by majorraglan |
What kind of answer is this, why don’t you answer Gwyn’s question? |
If you don’t understand the question which was reasonably asked then research the answer. It’s called maths | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 06:22 - Jul 16 with 589 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 22:35 - Jul 15 by Luther27 |
If they’re not intelligent enough to work out the accumulated debt v future wages then I really don’t want a consultation of any one of them personally. |
To put it another way, a doctor who has enough training and experience to be considered a Speciality Registrar is still paying for their student debt to the tune of about £600 a month. Considerably more if they aren't British but chose to study here.
They would have achieved an A at Maths and an A at Chemistry (and one other A grade A level) 12 - 14 years before that. They're probably intelligent enough to have worked in our. [Post edited 16 Jul 7:54]
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 07:32 - Jul 16 with 550 views | majorraglan |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 23:13 - Jul 15 by Luther27 |
If you don’t understand the question which was reasonably asked then research the answer. It’s called maths |
The question posed was to you, not the junior doctors. Gwyn specifically asked you what you thought was a reasonable wage for someone who’d accumulated a significant amount of debt and spent 12 years training to get to grade 6.
So what do you think is the reasonable wage as per Gwyn’s question. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:23 - Jul 16 with 499 views | Luther27 |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 07:32 - Jul 16 by majorraglan |
The question posed was to you, not the junior doctors. Gwyn specifically asked you what you thought was a reasonable wage for someone who’d accumulated a significant amount of debt and spent 12 years training to get to grade 6.
So what do you think is the reasonable wage as per Gwyn’s question. |
What I think is irrelevant. It also detracts from the main point which is do you think it’s right for junior doctors to go on strike? What do you and others who appear to support this think they should be paid? Are you prepared to pay more in tax to cover not only their increases but also the next in line which will be the nurses no doubt followed by consultants? | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:28 - Jul 16 with 493 views | Whiterockin |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:23 - Jul 16 by Luther27 |
What I think is irrelevant. It also detracts from the main point which is do you think it’s right for junior doctors to go on strike? What do you and others who appear to support this think they should be paid? Are you prepared to pay more in tax to cover not only their increases but also the next in line which will be the nurses no doubt followed by consultants? |
If what you think is irrelevant, why do you post what you think.  |  | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:49 - Jul 16 with 468 views | Luther27 |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:28 - Jul 16 by Whiterockin |
If what you think is irrelevant, why do you post what you think. |
I give an opinion. I think it’s silly asking me how much I think junior doctors should be paid as it’s out of my control. And my opinion is they should not go on strike. | | | |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:03 - Jul 16 with 399 views | Scotia |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 10:23 - Jul 16 by Luther27 |
What I think is irrelevant. It also detracts from the main point which is do you think it’s right for junior doctors to go on strike? What do you and others who appear to support this think they should be paid? Are you prepared to pay more in tax to cover not only their increases but also the next in line which will be the nurses no doubt followed by consultants? |
I think Dr's and other public service employess should receive a pay award reccomended by a truly independent awards body - that's what politicians get. I also think their training should be fully funded by the taxpayer if they're prepared to sign a golden handcuffs NHS contract.
Doctors went years with no pay rise whatsover, hence the call for a further pay rise now.
I am prepared to pay more in tax, and we need to look for cost reductions elswhere, especially in welfare.
I don't understand the mentality of peole begrudging paying slightly more tax or receiving slightly less cash when they could die as a result. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:16 - Jul 16 with 390 views | Whiterockin |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:03 - Jul 16 by Scotia |
I think Dr's and other public service employess should receive a pay award reccomended by a truly independent awards body - that's what politicians get. I also think their training should be fully funded by the taxpayer if they're prepared to sign a golden handcuffs NHS contract.
Doctors went years with no pay rise whatsover, hence the call for a further pay rise now.
I am prepared to pay more in tax, and we need to look for cost reductions elswhere, especially in welfare.
I don't understand the mentality of peole begrudging paying slightly more tax or receiving slightly less cash when they could die as a result. |
Spot on. If we want the best health service and you don't notice it until you need it, we have to pay for it. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:55 - Jul 16 with 358 views | Luther27 |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 13:03 - Jul 16 by Scotia |
I think Dr's and other public service employess should receive a pay award reccomended by a truly independent awards body - that's what politicians get. I also think their training should be fully funded by the taxpayer if they're prepared to sign a golden handcuffs NHS contract.
Doctors went years with no pay rise whatsover, hence the call for a further pay rise now.
I am prepared to pay more in tax, and we need to look for cost reductions elswhere, especially in welfare.
I don't understand the mentality of peole begrudging paying slightly more tax or receiving slightly less cash when they could die as a result. |
Yep I agree with most of that.
Yes taxpayers should fund training with a what….starting rate of £30k rising through to £100k based on experience and qualifications. Some of this funded by a max 10% employer pension rate plus a max voluntary contribution of 5%.
Once qualified handcuffed to the NHS for 10 years and no private practice. A 48 hour working week basic and locum rates reduced to £200 per shift. The contract should also include a no strike clause and as you say an independent body set up to set pay rates and grades.
It’s a start. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 15:14 - Jul 16 with 349 views | Whiterockin |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 14:55 - Jul 16 by Luther27 |
Yep I agree with most of that.
Yes taxpayers should fund training with a what….starting rate of £30k rising through to £100k based on experience and qualifications. Some of this funded by a max 10% employer pension rate plus a max voluntary contribution of 5%.
Once qualified handcuffed to the NHS for 10 years and no private practice. A 48 hour working week basic and locum rates reduced to £200 per shift. The contract should also include a no strike clause and as you say an independent body set up to set pay rates and grades.
It’s a start. |
The starting salary for a nurse on band 5 is £31,000. A band 9 nurse with higher qualifications and more experience(at least 5 years) earns over £100 000 per year. Surely a junior doctor with more training and qualifications should earn more.
https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/what-s-the-typical-starting-wage-for-a-nurse-in-th | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 15:20 - Jul 16 with 334 views | Luther27 |
I plucked those figures out of the air to fend off the know it alls who asked how much I’d pay. I am not a member of the NHS or any body with the full knowledge of pay scales. So in that respect replace my guesstimates with your figures. How much would you pay them?
The main criteria to me is a no strike clause. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 15:57 - Jul 16 with 301 views | Whiterockin |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 15:20 - Jul 16 by Luther27 |
I plucked those figures out of the air to fend off the know it alls who asked how much I’d pay. I am not a member of the NHS or any body with the full knowledge of pay scales. So in that respect replace my guesstimates with your figures. How much would you pay them?
The main criteria to me is a no strike clause. |
If you want to keep it to basics, it is complicated because different regions of the UK there are different pay structures and depends on your level. In Wales a resident house doctor starts on a minimum £35K ish as a foundation house officer one, up to a maximum scale 9 a full specialty registrar earing £71K. Obviously they can progress from there into various forms of medicine or research. Basically a decent plumber can earn the top amount. It's all relevant, in this day and age it's not unusual for a professional couple to earn over £100K a year joint income. Everything has to move with the times.
EDIT
I would pay them what they are asking, but it should be settled before a strike. Agree there should be a no strike clause like the police. But the government shouldn't take the piss and mess around with terms and pensions like they have done with the police. [Post edited 16 Jul 16:02]
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 21:35 - Jul 16 with 241 views | majorraglan |
A band 9 Nurse would be the Director of Nursing for a Health Board, there’s probably only a small number of them in Wales and they’d all probably be late 50s early 60s.
The old Matron type nurses are generally Band 8A’s and they have responsibility for particular areas, or a number of wards or specialities. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 21:41 - Jul 16 with 227 views | Dr_Winston |
The total package needs to be considered.
Junior doctors work less hours than they used to. They also have guaranteed employment and a very good pension at the end of it. It's simply not a straightforward comparison on pay scales.
The Government also caps the amount of training places for Doctors, which goes a long way towards protecting what they can earn. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 22:02 - Jul 16 with 221 views | majorraglan |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 15:57 - Jul 16 by Whiterockin |
If you want to keep it to basics, it is complicated because different regions of the UK there are different pay structures and depends on your level. In Wales a resident house doctor starts on a minimum £35K ish as a foundation house officer one, up to a maximum scale 9 a full specialty registrar earing £71K. Obviously they can progress from there into various forms of medicine or research. Basically a decent plumber can earn the top amount. It's all relevant, in this day and age it's not unusual for a professional couple to earn over £100K a year joint income. Everything has to move with the times.
EDIT
I would pay them what they are asking, but it should be settled before a strike. Agree there should be a no strike clause like the police. But the government shouldn't take the piss and mess around with terms and pensions like they have done with the police. [Post edited 16 Jul 16:02]
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I agree with much of what you’ve posted. I know a plumber, he charges £35 an hour and he’s on the go at least 6 days a week which comes out at around £80k. He told me he is one of the cheapest in the area, all his customers are local and long standing and he feels charging more is ripping people off and it goes against the grain. I know a chippie who charges £250 a day which is at least £60k per year. A barber near us charges £17 per haircut, he does 3 every 2 hours ( all appointments no walk ups) and works 5 days a week - if he works 50 weeks a year that’s £57k.
The Cameron, May, Johnson era saw public service pay savaged and the police were really poorly treated because they had no recourse to do anything about it.
The police and the government have a process to review and determine what the police pay rise should be, however it was very one sided in that the government set the parameters and if they didn’t like the “ independent “ recommendation they could ignore the recommendation and impose what they felt like. Guess what, the government did just that!
A top line Constable in England and Wales is on £48k, they get a 10% premium on their hourly rate for night shifts, but nothing extra for weekend work. Scottish police weren’t subject to the “austerity” programme and they get £50.5k.
If we’re going to remove people’s right to strike, then I think it’s only fair that we introduce independent pay reviews body’s whose decision is binding on all parties. | | | |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 22:39 - Jul 16 with 217 views | Dr_Winston |
| Resident doctors demand another big pay rise on 22:02 - Jul 16 by majorraglan |
I agree with much of what you’ve posted. I know a plumber, he charges £35 an hour and he’s on the go at least 6 days a week which comes out at around £80k. He told me he is one of the cheapest in the area, all his customers are local and long standing and he feels charging more is ripping people off and it goes against the grain. I know a chippie who charges £250 a day which is at least £60k per year. A barber near us charges £17 per haircut, he does 3 every 2 hours ( all appointments no walk ups) and works 5 days a week - if he works 50 weeks a year that’s £57k.
The Cameron, May, Johnson era saw public service pay savaged and the police were really poorly treated because they had no recourse to do anything about it.
The police and the government have a process to review and determine what the police pay rise should be, however it was very one sided in that the government set the parameters and if they didn’t like the “ independent “ recommendation they could ignore the recommendation and impose what they felt like. Guess what, the government did just that!
A top line Constable in England and Wales is on £48k, they get a 10% premium on their hourly rate for night shifts, but nothing extra for weekend work. Scottish police weren’t subject to the “austerity” programme and they get £50.5k.
If we’re going to remove people’s right to strike, then I think it’s only fair that we introduce independent pay reviews body’s whose decision is binding on all parties. |
My BiL is a builder. His general rule of thumb is that a skilled tradie of whatever discipline (sparkie, plumber, plasterer, whatever) earns £250 a day. Considering that most of them are self-employed to some extent, that's fair IMO. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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