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I hear a lot of talk about us needing a box-to-box 8, but what exactly is that player suppose to be and what is needed to accommodate that position? And what will be sacrificed?
We currently set up with a back 4. Two holding mids, two wingers, a 10 and a striker.
So where is this 8 supposed to fit in? I personally prefer us playing with wingers (call me old school) and think the setup against Charlton was pretty much where we are at right now.
For the 8 to fit in (between the holding mids and 10), we probably have to play 5 at the back with 2 wing-backs, doing away with the wingers. Not sure I like that idea, its a radical change I can't see us having the time to adapt to. Saito and Smyth could probably fill those roles, but Poku and especially Dembele much less suited to it.
Worst of it all, suppose we get an 8, we need another as backup, otherwise we constantly have to switch formation when the 8 is injured or suspended. Or force someone else into the role.
I was a centre mid and we didn’t have holding or attacking midfielders, we did it all with fitness and organisation and running from box to box. Lost count of the times I ran 80 metres to join an attack only for us to lose the ball so I had to run right back again. It’s called fitness 😉
The first time I heard this was back in the 70s... Brian Talbot ( I think ) was described as a box to box player. In the old days ... it was player that just run from... our box to theirs and back ... kicking the odd player here and there .
Where that fits in now.. no idea . Maybe.. you called describe Declan Rice as one nowadays ?
No disrespect to anyone or possibly I’m being massively disrespectful to everyone but I find this use of numbers when talking about football positions a tad dubious. Feels a bit pseudo to me like some one trying to sound like an expert after they’ve read some ‘reinventing the wheel’ internet-guff about football tactics. And some of those midfield numbers are ambiguous anyway specifically 4 and 6. Could be midfield. Could be defence. Depends on the formation. Depends on the era.
Like Hooparoo I played a lot in centre-mid too and organisation, awareness, and communication are key. I was always looking to attack but if the play has brought your midfield partner forward then you’d more than likely drop a bit or possibly stay level with him depending on what’s going on around you. So many variables happening at any time which is the beauty of the game. A wonderful description I think made by Brian Glanville of Glenn Hoddle was he had an innate sense of the ever-moving geometry of the game and that for me sums up a chief attribute of the best midfielders. Either way you had to be prepared to run box to box for 90 minutes. Oh man I’d love to be playing again. I’m gonna stop there before I go full jumpers for goalposts. Enjoy it while you can kids.
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(No subject) (n/t) on 23:22 - Sep 1 with 3212 views
No disrespect to anyone or possibly I’m being massively disrespectful to everyone but I find this use of numbers when talking about football positions a tad dubious. Feels a bit pseudo to me like some one trying to sound like an expert after they’ve read some ‘reinventing the wheel’ internet-guff about football tactics. And some of those midfield numbers are ambiguous anyway specifically 4 and 6. Could be midfield. Could be defence. Depends on the formation. Depends on the era.
Like Hooparoo I played a lot in centre-mid too and organisation, awareness, and communication are key. I was always looking to attack but if the play has brought your midfield partner forward then you’d more than likely drop a bit or possibly stay level with him depending on what’s going on around you. So many variables happening at any time which is the beauty of the game. A wonderful description I think made by Brian Glanville of Glenn Hoddle was he had an innate sense of the ever-moving geometry of the game and that for me sums up a chief attribute of the best midfielders. Either way you had to be prepared to run box to box for 90 minutes. Oh man I’d love to be playing again. I’m gonna stop there before I go full jumpers for goalposts. Enjoy it while you can kids.
Agree that we do need a box to box 8 although I don't think we need a false 9.
A decent box to box 8 helps with both the high press and the low block. They can also use the half space and cover an inverted full back.
They can help with an overload, double pivot when the time is right, be quick with a transition, look between the lines especially when the opportunity to recycle presents itself.
Agree that we do need a box to box 8 although I don't think we need a false 9.
A decent box to box 8 helps with both the high press and the low block. They can also use the half space and cover an inverted full back.
They can help with an overload, double pivot when the time is right, be quick with a transition, look between the lines especially when the opportunity to recycle presents itself.
Sounds Very good rbee, but I’m totally bamboozled!
Agree that we do need a box to box 8 although I don't think we need a false 9.
A decent box to box 8 helps with both the high press and the low block. They can also use the half space and cover an inverted full back.
They can help with an overload, double pivot when the time is right, be quick with a transition, look between the lines especially when the opportunity to recycle presents itself.
No one uses the word trequartista anymore. I liked that one. Very musical sounding. Naturally as it’s Italian. And on the subject of pointless jargon if one thing comes good of 7-1 day it’s that some commentators are saying it’s proved that xG is broken and is a pile of bollox and will soon be obsolete. The football stat equivalent of quantitative easing. I suspect there’s a better economic metaphor.
No disrespect to anyone or possibly I’m being massively disrespectful to everyone but I find this use of numbers when talking about football positions a tad dubious. Feels a bit pseudo to me like some one trying to sound like an expert after they’ve read some ‘reinventing the wheel’ internet-guff about football tactics. And some of those midfield numbers are ambiguous anyway specifically 4 and 6. Could be midfield. Could be defence. Depends on the formation. Depends on the era.
Like Hooparoo I played a lot in centre-mid too and organisation, awareness, and communication are key. I was always looking to attack but if the play has brought your midfield partner forward then you’d more than likely drop a bit or possibly stay level with him depending on what’s going on around you. So many variables happening at any time which is the beauty of the game. A wonderful description I think made by Brian Glanville of Glenn Hoddle was he had an innate sense of the ever-moving geometry of the game and that for me sums up a chief attribute of the best midfielders. Either way you had to be prepared to run box to box for 90 minutes. Oh man I’d love to be playing again. I’m gonna stop there before I go full jumpers for goalposts. Enjoy it while you can kids.
I'm another one with you on this Danny.
When I read that we need a number 8 box to box midfielder, I assume that we need a reincarnation of Gerry Francis. He fits all the criteria asked for - box to box, midfielder & number 8. A future captain as well!
With Hadyn & Field holding the flanks, Varane is our box to box Midfielder,
Varane is improving game by game, has immense desire, athleticism, can tackle, head, beat a man and passing has improved massively as no look pass to Dembele on Saturday showed,
No disrespect to anyone or possibly I’m being massively disrespectful to everyone but I find this use of numbers when talking about football positions a tad dubious. Feels a bit pseudo to me like some one trying to sound like an expert after they’ve read some ‘reinventing the wheel’ internet-guff about football tactics. And some of those midfield numbers are ambiguous anyway specifically 4 and 6. Could be midfield. Could be defence. Depends on the formation. Depends on the era.
Like Hooparoo I played a lot in centre-mid too and organisation, awareness, and communication are key. I was always looking to attack but if the play has brought your midfield partner forward then you’d more than likely drop a bit or possibly stay level with him depending on what’s going on around you. So many variables happening at any time which is the beauty of the game. A wonderful description I think made by Brian Glanville of Glenn Hoddle was he had an innate sense of the ever-moving geometry of the game and that for me sums up a chief attribute of the best midfielders. Either way you had to be prepared to run box to box for 90 minutes. Oh man I’d love to be playing again. I’m gonna stop there before I go full jumpers for goalposts. Enjoy it while you can kids.
No disrespect to anyone or possibly I’m being massively disrespectful to everyone but I find this use of numbers when talking about football positions a tad dubious. Feels a bit pseudo to me like some one trying to sound like an expert after they’ve read some ‘reinventing the wheel’ internet-guff about football tactics. And some of those midfield numbers are ambiguous anyway specifically 4 and 6. Could be midfield. Could be defence. Depends on the formation. Depends on the era.
Like Hooparoo I played a lot in centre-mid too and organisation, awareness, and communication are key. I was always looking to attack but if the play has brought your midfield partner forward then you’d more than likely drop a bit or possibly stay level with him depending on what’s going on around you. So many variables happening at any time which is the beauty of the game. A wonderful description I think made by Brian Glanville of Glenn Hoddle was he had an innate sense of the ever-moving geometry of the game and that for me sums up a chief attribute of the best midfielders. Either way you had to be prepared to run box to box for 90 minutes. Oh man I’d love to be playing again. I’m gonna stop there before I go full jumpers for goalposts. Enjoy it while you can kids.
I miss playing as well, great post! Have you ever tried the walking football?
-- btw, not sure that I ever saw Glenn Hoddle busting a gut to get back and defend ;p
I used to get confused in the same way when my dad talked about inside rights or half backs!
So you don't have to sacrifice anything in a 4-2-3-1. It just means 1 of the middle 2 will sit and protect the defence while the other goes and supports attacks, as well as running back. They have to be extremely fit to get up and down the pitch with lots of high intensity running in both halves of the pitch AND can pass a ball. The more of the defensive player in the midfield 2 will also cover a fullbacks position when they get up the wing to support attacks. If you want to call it a position. The 2 are split into 1 CDM and 1 CM. Someone like Dominik Szoboszlai at Liverpool is a good example (although he is covered RB at the moment...) Of our central Midfielders Sam Field and Jon Varane are both the "deep lying" types. Hence why people say they can't play together. Hayden is also more of the holding model but can defo pass better than the other 2, so could work well. If Madsen could get more physical and tackle more (did better on Saturday) he would be a great fit. Morgan needs to bulk a little and continue developing his passing but has the right profile to fit the position.
With Hadyn & Field holding the flanks, Varane is our box to box Midfielder,
Varane is improving game by game, has immense desire, athleticism, can tackle, head, beat a man and passing has improved massively as no look pass to Dembele on Saturday showed,
That was my thought too.
Inevitably what you get is the same problem we have with wingbacks - a player will probably be lacking in either defensive or attacking side, because if they could do both well they would be playing for a better team!
No one uses the word trequartista anymore. I liked that one. Very musical sounding. Naturally as it’s Italian. And on the subject of pointless jargon if one thing comes good of 7-1 day it’s that some commentators are saying it’s proved that xG is broken and is a pile of bollox and will soon be obsolete. The football stat equivalent of quantitative easing. I suspect there’s a better economic metaphor.
The Money Programme. That had a great theme tune.
The opening stanza of Jimmy Smith's version of the theme from The Carpetbaggers. The time signature is all over the place.
So you don't have to sacrifice anything in a 4-2-3-1. It just means 1 of the middle 2 will sit and protect the defence while the other goes and supports attacks, as well as running back. They have to be extremely fit to get up and down the pitch with lots of high intensity running in both halves of the pitch AND can pass a ball. The more of the defensive player in the midfield 2 will also cover a fullbacks position when they get up the wing to support attacks. If you want to call it a position. The 2 are split into 1 CDM and 1 CM. Someone like Dominik Szoboszlai at Liverpool is a good example (although he is covered RB at the moment...) Of our central Midfielders Sam Field and Jon Varane are both the "deep lying" types. Hence why people say they can't play together. Hayden is also more of the holding model but can defo pass better than the other 2, so could work well. If Madsen could get more physical and tackle more (did better on Saturday) he would be a great fit. Morgan needs to bulk a little and continue developing his passing but has the right profile to fit the position.
Apologies if that went a bit ChatGP Nourry.
[Post edited 2 Sep 11:56]
Or the other scenario in Englands 'golden' generation where we kept trying to play Gerard and Lampard in the same team, with both players wanting to write the theme tune and sing the theme tune
From what I've seen of Alfie Tuck if he fills out a bit he could play in the advanced role as well
Or the other scenario in Englands 'golden' generation where we kept trying to play Gerard and Lampard in the same team, with both players wanting to write the theme tune and sing the theme tune
From what I've seen of Alfie Tuck if he fills out a bit he could play in the advanced role as well
[Post edited 2 Sep 12:22]
Scored a lovely freekick for Hampton and Richmond at the weekend. Always thought there's a good player there and should have a higher up loan, L2 maybe.
So you don't have to sacrifice anything in a 4-2-3-1. It just means 1 of the middle 2 will sit and protect the defence while the other goes and supports attacks, as well as running back. They have to be extremely fit to get up and down the pitch with lots of high intensity running in both halves of the pitch AND can pass a ball. The more of the defensive player in the midfield 2 will also cover a fullbacks position when they get up the wing to support attacks. If you want to call it a position. The 2 are split into 1 CDM and 1 CM. Someone like Dominik Szoboszlai at Liverpool is a good example (although he is covered RB at the moment...) Of our central Midfielders Sam Field and Jon Varane are both the "deep lying" types. Hence why people say they can't play together. Hayden is also more of the holding model but can defo pass better than the other 2, so could work well. If Madsen could get more physical and tackle more (did better on Saturday) he would be a great fit. Morgan needs to bulk a little and continue developing his passing but has the right profile to fit the position.
Apologies if that went a bit ChatGP Nourry.
[Post edited 2 Sep 11:56]
Great post. As I see it the more defensive of the 2 mids is similar to a sweeper, or (another of my favourite terms you don’t hear any more) the libero except instead of sweeping behind the defence the player is sweeping in front of the defence. Cos I’m pretentious and known for my continental flair, I’m calling this role the progressivo libero.
Decent players who are comfortable on the ball such as Issac Hayden and Ronnie Edwards can interchange between central defence and holding mid/ progressivo libero comfortably and play in either role. The best Rs player I’ve seen who was adept at this was Glenn ‘double shuffle’ Roeder. Interesting some are saying Hayden will now give Varane the opportunity to venture further forward. If so I’d suggest he get’s more shooting practice in as he’ll be getting more opportunities from outside the box. I’m sure he’s put a few away already but he’s put a few in the stands too.
Edit: Varane has scored just the 1 goal for the Rs, which I’m pretty sure was at Leicester in the fog. Get ya shooting boots on JV!
So you don't have to sacrifice anything in a 4-2-3-1. It just means 1 of the middle 2 will sit and protect the defence while the other goes and supports attacks, as well as running back. They have to be extremely fit to get up and down the pitch with lots of high intensity running in both halves of the pitch AND can pass a ball. The more of the defensive player in the midfield 2 will also cover a fullbacks position when they get up the wing to support attacks. If you want to call it a position. The 2 are split into 1 CDM and 1 CM. Someone like Dominik Szoboszlai at Liverpool is a good example (although he is covered RB at the moment...) Of our central Midfielders Sam Field and Jon Varane are both the "deep lying" types. Hence why people say they can't play together. Hayden is also more of the holding model but can defo pass better than the other 2, so could work well. If Madsen could get more physical and tackle more (did better on Saturday) he would be a great fit. Morgan needs to bulk a little and continue developing his passing but has the right profile to fit the position.
Apologies if that went a bit ChatGP Nourry.
[Post edited 2 Sep 11:56]
Just for fun the ChatGPT answer is this........
In football (soccer), a box-to-box 8 refers to a central midfielder who wears the number 8 shirt and plays a dynamic, all-action role. This player operates between both penalty areas (hence "box-to-box") and contributes significantly to both attacking and defensive phases of play.
🔑 Key Responsibilities of a Box-to-Box 8: 1. Defensive Duties
Track back to help defend, especially during counterattacks.
Make tackles, interceptions, and blocks.
Press opponents to win the ball back high or in midfield.
2. Ball Progression
Carry the ball forward through dribbling or passing.
Link defense and attack smoothly.
Often one of the main engines of the team’s transitions.
3. Attacking Support
Arrive late into the box to create or finish chances.
Make forward runs to overload the opposition midfield or defense.
Assist strikers and wingers with through balls or crosses.
4. Stamina and Work Rate
Cover a lot of ground over 90 minutes.
Move continuously to support both ends of the pitch.
Maintain high intensity even late in games.
🔄 Positioning & Movement:
Typically plays slightly ahead of a holding midfielder (the 6) and behind or beside a more attacking midfielder (the 10).
Moves vertically up and down the pitch.
Helps maintain team shape in both offense and defense.
🧠 Ideal Attributes:
High stamina and fitness
Good passing range
Tactical awareness
Ball-carrying ability
Defensive intelligence
Shooting from range
🔥 Famous Examples:
Steven Gerrard
Frank Lampard
Blaise Matuidi
Jude Bellingham (modern, all-rounded example)
Arturo Vidal (during his prime)
Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man
In football (soccer), a box-to-box 8 refers to a central midfielder who wears the number 8 shirt and plays a dynamic, all-action role. This player operates between both penalty areas (hence "box-to-box") and contributes significantly to both attacking and defensive phases of play.
🔑 Key Responsibilities of a Box-to-Box 8: 1. Defensive Duties
Track back to help defend, especially during counterattacks.
Make tackles, interceptions, and blocks.
Press opponents to win the ball back high or in midfield.
2. Ball Progression
Carry the ball forward through dribbling or passing.
Link defense and attack smoothly.
Often one of the main engines of the team’s transitions.
3. Attacking Support
Arrive late into the box to create or finish chances.
Make forward runs to overload the opposition midfield or defense.
Assist strikers and wingers with through balls or crosses.
4. Stamina and Work Rate
Cover a lot of ground over 90 minutes.
Move continuously to support both ends of the pitch.
Maintain high intensity even late in games.
🔄 Positioning & Movement:
Typically plays slightly ahead of a holding midfielder (the 6) and behind or beside a more attacking midfielder (the 10).
Moves vertically up and down the pitch.
Helps maintain team shape in both offense and defense.
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