| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension 16:17 - Jun 30 with 12012 views | sdm1508 |
This has just been announced. Going to be given a proper run out after what was apparently a good loan at Dundee or back up to someone else? |  | | |  |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:13 - Jul 2 with 1649 views | derbyhoop |
Plenty on here saying Larkeche can't defend. No doubt true in 23/24, since when he's played 30 ish games in the SPL. How many of his well informed critics watched Dundee in 24/25? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
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| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:27 - Jul 2 with 1594 views | nix |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 11:44 - Jul 2 by Hunterhoop |
You were adamant we would be willing a back 3 the other day.
And if the squad is being set up to play 442 or 352, what does that mean for Nourry’s Game Model? Does that mean the game model was wrong last season? Are we going to change the game model across the club? Will be instead ditch the game model concept entirely, when Nourry was so public about the need to have one? What does that mean for last summer’s recruitment (and money invested in salaries) for players to suit a 433 game model?
As I’ve said, I am quite excited see how a two up top works for us. However, a movement away from last season’s game model would be a damning indictment on Nourry, would it not? It would certainly indicate he got it wrong last season. |
I know you loathe Nourry Hunter and you have your reasons. But isn't a bit early to be talking of damning indictments before a) we've played a single match even pre-season games and b) we haven't shelved anyone quite yet?
From what I've read one real positive about our new manager is his ability to adapt different styles of play and systems. Shouldn't we at least wait for the fabled ten matches before being so angry about something that hasn't happened yet. |  | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:31 - Jul 2 with 1577 views | golborne |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:13 - Jul 2 by derbyhoop |
Plenty on here saying Larkeche can't defend. No doubt true in 23/24, since when he's played 30 ish games in the SPL. How many of his well informed critics watched Dundee in 24/25? |
He's started 3 games for us and played 364 mins in total across 20 matches (so the equivalent of just under 4 matches when IT is factored), and some of the visionaries on here know that he can't defend. When you consider the fact that he was mostly used for his pace as an impact sub, their speaking for the sake of speaking is even more absurd. | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:50 - Jul 2 with 1542 views | DavieQPR |
I just look at the Dundee fans forum and they rate him quite highly. Should be better after the loan, would have learnt something. |  | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:53 - Jul 2 with 1532 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:27 - Jul 2 by nix |
I know you loathe Nourry Hunter and you have your reasons. But isn't a bit early to be talking of damning indictments before a) we've played a single match even pre-season games and b) we haven't shelved anyone quite yet?
From what I've read one real positive about our new manager is his ability to adapt different styles of play and systems. Shouldn't we at least wait for the fabled ten matches before being so angry about something that hasn't happened yet. |
I just think it’s an important set of questions to ask. I don’t know the answers. I don’t think they should be ignored, and those questions are to be asked now, not in 10 games’ time.
It is incongruous to praise or defend Nourry as a DOF, the game model through the club, the signings he’s made, etc, AND entertain/welcome/accept a sudden change in the first team system. And yet, that is what all the pro-Nourry posters are pushing. It’s disingenuous. |  | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 16:40 - Jul 2 with 1491 views | VancouverHoop |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:53 - Jul 2 by Hunterhoop |
I just think it’s an important set of questions to ask. I don’t know the answers. I don’t think they should be ignored, and those questions are to be asked now, not in 10 games’ time.
It is incongruous to praise or defend Nourry as a DOF, the game model through the club, the signings he’s made, etc, AND entertain/welcome/accept a sudden change in the first team system. And yet, that is what all the pro-Nourry posters are pushing. It’s disingenuous. |
Who was it who said "Forwards are born, defenders are made?" (Besides me!) If so a longer contract for a young defender makes sense. I can just imagine the howls on here if after, say, two years, he was just coming into his own then his contract expired.
Dundee fans are currently in a better position to judge him than we are. They seem to see proper player there. Let's just give the kid a chance. | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 16:54 - Jul 2 with 1451 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 16:40 - Jul 2 by VancouverHoop |
Who was it who said "Forwards are born, defenders are made?" (Besides me!) If so a longer contract for a young defender makes sense. I can just imagine the howls on here if after, say, two years, he was just coming into his own then his contract expired.
Dundee fans are currently in a better position to judge him than we are. They seem to see proper player there. Let's just give the kid a chance. |
More than happy to give Larkeche a chance, even if I think it a gamble. But that has nothing to do with the points I’m making which are to do with our game model and playing formation. | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 19:34 - Jul 2 with 1352 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:53 - Jul 2 by Hunterhoop |
I just think it’s an important set of questions to ask. I don’t know the answers. I don’t think they should be ignored, and those questions are to be asked now, not in 10 games’ time.
It is incongruous to praise or defend Nourry as a DOF, the game model through the club, the signings he’s made, etc, AND entertain/welcome/accept a sudden change in the first team system. And yet, that is what all the pro-Nourry posters are pushing. It’s disingenuous. |
You're well within your rights to ask constructive questions and I for one encourage it. I don't see it as either pro or anti-Nourry and don't understand anyone who does. It's only natural and prudent to be inquisitive when so much is changing on and off the pitch.
With respect to your last set of questions I don't believe that the game model is locked down to a specific formation. For me, it's more about identity and style of play, and how the board shape recruitment, development and sales to support this. As ever with QPR's budget, balancing competitiveness with sustainability is key. With games coming thick and fast in the Championship the best teams are flexible and adaptable in their tactical approach. However, you do need a balanced squad to achieve that and this is where I questioned the recruitment last summer. We overloaded on 10s and left huge voids elsewhere. It'll be interesting to see whether these gaps are plugged before the season starts. [Post edited 2 Jul 19:35]
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| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 20:16 - Jul 2 with 1234 views | BklynRanger |
Nourry was quite open about Marty's approach being the game model when he came in.
Now that he's gone, if it's now to be Stephan's game model then that's Nourry again putting his full faith in the incumbent.
Fair enough and hopefully the argument there is that the game model (or whatever we're calling it) needs to be consistent throughout the club.
The problem obviously is that the game model will change with each manager if it's based on the individual manager's philosophy, but it would have to Shirley since Nourry isn't a football tactician in any way despite the combined role.
Speaks to an issue with the structure more than anything else, because the idea, I thought, was the manager fits into the game model, but it's clearly not that simple in practice, at least not how we've set it up. |  | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 21:21 - Jul 2 with 1139 views | Hunterhoop |
The whole point of the “game model”, as explained by Nourry himself (and, tbf, espoused by Clive in the past), is that it is implemented right through the club, a long term model, and head coaches can come and go but it doesn’t change. It’s not “manager wants, manager gets” anymore; there is a game model in place that they coach to, and the youth teams follow to make the transition into the first team easier.
Nourry made a big song and dance about this being his idea and would be happening. Him being in charge of signings is part of this. He’s the constant, and head coaches may not. The signings we make are for the game model enabling the building of a squad with depth in ten right spots…not one set of signings per head coach, which then aren’t what the new guy wants, so we sign a whole new set, and have players we signed the year before out in the cold on good salaries.
All the above, objectively, makes a lot of sense. I have a massive issue with someone who I believe is a charlatan being in charge of it all (separate issue) but as a strategy it has a lot going for it.
Yet, here we are discussing new formations and approaches because the head coach is different. Here we are suggesting transfer and contract renewal activity hints at a change in shape. Here we have posters who post relentlessly pro Nourry stuff suggesting in a very confident manner than we might be changing are first team formation and approach.
How does any of that align with the strategy behind the game model?
The only answers I can think of are:
a) Nourry et al (potentially with input from the new Head Coach) have decided their original game model was wrong. Admitting a mistake and correcting it is good… but it is a relfection (if it not an indictment!) of having a novice with no football experience (playing side) as your DOF. That shouldn’t go unnoticed. It’s precisely the type of thing people have warned about. Financially it risks wasting lots of money. It’s also going to require a ton of time and work implementing a new game model across all youth age groups and the type of players we take on at that level. And it begs a further question: when Stephan leaves (due to either his success or failure) will we change the game model again?
b) We are binning the game model concept entirely - which is an even worse reflection on Nourry
c) We’re going to allow the first team to play how the Head Coach wants but maintain the original game model through the youth set ups…likely creating a disconnect from academy to first team, which is a key pipeline for our self sufficiency.
Based on all this, I cannot see how/why Nourry can/would allow the Head Coach to not follow the game model as it is.
If he does, then those questions I’ve asked are very valid. And since we have a load of Nourry advocates espousing a likely change in formation and approach now, I feel the questions are worth raising now. | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 22:36 - Jul 2 with 1033 views | nix |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:53 - Jul 2 by Hunterhoop |
I just think it’s an important set of questions to ask. I don’t know the answers. I don’t think they should be ignored, and those questions are to be asked now, not in 10 games’ time.
It is incongruous to praise or defend Nourry as a DOF, the game model through the club, the signings he’s made, etc, AND entertain/welcome/accept a sudden change in the first team system. And yet, that is what all the pro-Nourry posters are pushing. It’s disingenuous. |
It's not you asking questions, it's you talking of damning indictments that I think is excessive, and using those kind of terms suggests you do think you know the answers and have made up your mind..
I also find irksome the attempt to put everyone into a pro-Nourry or anti-Nourry camp.
I dislike any characterisation which leads from 'if you don't believe x, then you must believe y'. It's not incongruous to see some positives and some negatives. I just think your antipathy towards Nourry is leading you to rush to judgement. It's nowhere near ten matches in, it's zero.
I genuinely can't make an assessment on Nourry based on such limited information. I've seen progress in some areas such as the DS, some positive signings and some negative aspects like the squad imbalance last season and some disappointing marquee signings. Another positive is that players like Poku and managers like Stephan want to come to us and players like Jimmy, Sam and Illy want to stay. I don't think that puts me in the pro-Nourry camp. I'm willing to be wrong and he might be wrecking our beloved club but really having sat through Chris Wright, Palladini and Tony Fernandes i just don't feel as negative as you at the moment. | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 23:04 - Jul 2 with 989 views | Andybrat |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 22:36 - Jul 2 by nix |
It's not you asking questions, it's you talking of damning indictments that I think is excessive, and using those kind of terms suggests you do think you know the answers and have made up your mind..
I also find irksome the attempt to put everyone into a pro-Nourry or anti-Nourry camp.
I dislike any characterisation which leads from 'if you don't believe x, then you must believe y'. It's not incongruous to see some positives and some negatives. I just think your antipathy towards Nourry is leading you to rush to judgement. It's nowhere near ten matches in, it's zero.
I genuinely can't make an assessment on Nourry based on such limited information. I've seen progress in some areas such as the DS, some positive signings and some negative aspects like the squad imbalance last season and some disappointing marquee signings. Another positive is that players like Poku and managers like Stephan want to come to us and players like Jimmy, Sam and Illy want to stay. I don't think that puts me in the pro-Nourry camp. I'm willing to be wrong and he might be wrecking our beloved club but really having sat through Chris Wright, Palladini and Tony Fernandes i just don't feel as negative as you at the moment. |
Perfect and Larkeche deserves the chance | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 23:16 - Jul 2 with 959 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 22:36 - Jul 2 by nix |
It's not you asking questions, it's you talking of damning indictments that I think is excessive, and using those kind of terms suggests you do think you know the answers and have made up your mind..
I also find irksome the attempt to put everyone into a pro-Nourry or anti-Nourry camp.
I dislike any characterisation which leads from 'if you don't believe x, then you must believe y'. It's not incongruous to see some positives and some negatives. I just think your antipathy towards Nourry is leading you to rush to judgement. It's nowhere near ten matches in, it's zero.
I genuinely can't make an assessment on Nourry based on such limited information. I've seen progress in some areas such as the DS, some positive signings and some negative aspects like the squad imbalance last season and some disappointing marquee signings. Another positive is that players like Poku and managers like Stephan want to come to us and players like Jimmy, Sam and Illy want to stay. I don't think that puts me in the pro-Nourry camp. I'm willing to be wrong and he might be wrecking our beloved club but really having sat through Chris Wright, Palladini and Tony Fernandes i just don't feel as negative as you at the moment. |
Nix, re read my original post, I’ve said a move away from last season’s much trumpeter game model after just one season (if indeed it happens, personally, I don’t think it will, but people keep intimating it will happen) would be a damning indictment. It’s conditional. You may feel even being conditional on that change it’s too strong. That’s fine. Opinions.
As you know, I’ve lived through all of those chairman/CEOs too, and been on this board over 25 years. Some of what I have heard about Nourry from a variety of sources all of whom have met him, couple with what I have seen/read/researched myself, and linked to my own opinions on the behaviours a leader should employ, all lead me to believe he is someone to be very wary of.
That doesn’t mean he won’t or can’t be successful. I hope he is. It would mean the football team is successful. I’d just be wary…
On this specific topic, I do think it’s an important one. Politically a change in game model would be a major row back, create inconsistency across age groups or a complete re-training across the club, and would make some of last season’s investments redundant. I think it would be poor. It might be good for the club - perhaps the game model was wrong last year - but I do think a change, if it occurs, would be a poor reflection on him as a DOF. Sticking with it and the club struggling would also be a poor reflection on him. But that is how accountability works when you chose to own and control everything.
I should add, I’m not as negative on the club as you think. The training ground is a huge plus in recent years, but the work to achieve that and benefit from it was put in well before Nourry. Likewise the Dev team. Most of those players (and Kolli) were developed from 9-18 under Chris Ramsey’s watch. Yes, I think Nourry has overseen good signings into that squad of 18yr olds cast off from others, which is wise, but the success of the Dev Squad is much more down to Ramsey than him. Even Paul Furlong was brought into the coaching set up by Ramsey and Les. On the wage bill and FFP, which we seem to now manage to meet each year, which is good, the leg work was done by Ferdinand here. The gamble year under Warburton put us back ten paces but that came from the owners. Righting it thereafter was Les. We will find out how Nourry has done on the finances in his first full season in March. Finally, of course the squad should be better last season and this season than the Ainsworth season (Watford first gam debacle). We were incredibly tight to FFP that season and had to throw everything overboard, including back weighting 2 year deals for players to stay under the limit. Last summer and this summer we have way more wiggle room as the Warburton gamble season is no longer in the rolling 3 year period. As such, the squad should be better. But last season we finished on the same number of points as the season before with the weaker/cheaper squad.
I do think there are lots of positives. I just don’t think many have much to do with Nourry. My negatively relates to him (and Hoos to a degree) rather than all aspects of the club. There are things to be positive about, including some of Nourry’s signings. There is also a lot to be wary about with him, mind.
There, said my piece. May duck out of the MB for a while to save boring everyone with the same points again and again, and to save myself getting riled by the PR war being waged. [Post edited 2 Jul 23:34]
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| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 09:06 - Jul 3 with 757 views | ngbqpr |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 23:16 - Jul 2 by Hunterhoop |
Nix, re read my original post, I’ve said a move away from last season’s much trumpeter game model after just one season (if indeed it happens, personally, I don’t think it will, but people keep intimating it will happen) would be a damning indictment. It’s conditional. You may feel even being conditional on that change it’s too strong. That’s fine. Opinions.
As you know, I’ve lived through all of those chairman/CEOs too, and been on this board over 25 years. Some of what I have heard about Nourry from a variety of sources all of whom have met him, couple with what I have seen/read/researched myself, and linked to my own opinions on the behaviours a leader should employ, all lead me to believe he is someone to be very wary of.
That doesn’t mean he won’t or can’t be successful. I hope he is. It would mean the football team is successful. I’d just be wary…
On this specific topic, I do think it’s an important one. Politically a change in game model would be a major row back, create inconsistency across age groups or a complete re-training across the club, and would make some of last season’s investments redundant. I think it would be poor. It might be good for the club - perhaps the game model was wrong last year - but I do think a change, if it occurs, would be a poor reflection on him as a DOF. Sticking with it and the club struggling would also be a poor reflection on him. But that is how accountability works when you chose to own and control everything.
I should add, I’m not as negative on the club as you think. The training ground is a huge plus in recent years, but the work to achieve that and benefit from it was put in well before Nourry. Likewise the Dev team. Most of those players (and Kolli) were developed from 9-18 under Chris Ramsey’s watch. Yes, I think Nourry has overseen good signings into that squad of 18yr olds cast off from others, which is wise, but the success of the Dev Squad is much more down to Ramsey than him. Even Paul Furlong was brought into the coaching set up by Ramsey and Les. On the wage bill and FFP, which we seem to now manage to meet each year, which is good, the leg work was done by Ferdinand here. The gamble year under Warburton put us back ten paces but that came from the owners. Righting it thereafter was Les. We will find out how Nourry has done on the finances in his first full season in March. Finally, of course the squad should be better last season and this season than the Ainsworth season (Watford first gam debacle). We were incredibly tight to FFP that season and had to throw everything overboard, including back weighting 2 year deals for players to stay under the limit. Last summer and this summer we have way more wiggle room as the Warburton gamble season is no longer in the rolling 3 year period. As such, the squad should be better. But last season we finished on the same number of points as the season before with the weaker/cheaper squad.
I do think there are lots of positives. I just don’t think many have much to do with Nourry. My negatively relates to him (and Hoos to a degree) rather than all aspects of the club. There are things to be positive about, including some of Nourry’s signings. There is also a lot to be wary about with him, mind.
There, said my piece. May duck out of the MB for a while to save boring everyone with the same points again and again, and to save myself getting riled by the PR war being waged. [Post edited 2 Jul 23:34]
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No need to duck out mate - I think many of us are asking the same questions, and as ever you articulate that train of thought very well.
However, like Nix & others, I'm not going to get too analytical about whether or not we're abandoning the much-trumpeted game model (I agree with you, Nourry made a song & dance about it to a reputation-staking level) based on second guessing what Stephan may or may not do.
I fully expect some formation tinkering in the pre-season games, as much as anything to help him assess the adaptability of his players.
The Preston starting eleven / formation is when it gets interesting - tho again, as per Nix above, 10 (league) games in seems a good time to judge whether there's been a massive backtrack or not....and whether Marti preferring 4231 as he felt it suited the squad was a major factor in the fall out.
Your questions are all valid, I'm just not sure I agree we should be sweating on the answers right now, before a proverbial ball has been kicked. |  |
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| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 09:11 - Jul 3 with 742 views | nix |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 15:04 - Jul 2 by QPRSam |
What games were these because the DS games I've seen I honestly thought he looked a class above. Not small either, I think he will handle the physicality of the championship fine which is one of the biggest problems for the youth players. |
Just a question as I've only seen him in the two PL Cup games SF & F but thought he looked excellent going forward but wasn't tested so much defensively. How do you think he'd do against much better Championship wingers?
Also wondering if we might put Smyth on the left this season as he's a much better cover for the LB than Chair IMO. | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 09:15 - Jul 3 with 736 views | nix |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 09:06 - Jul 3 by ngbqpr |
No need to duck out mate - I think many of us are asking the same questions, and as ever you articulate that train of thought very well.
However, like Nix & others, I'm not going to get too analytical about whether or not we're abandoning the much-trumpeted game model (I agree with you, Nourry made a song & dance about it to a reputation-staking level) based on second guessing what Stephan may or may not do.
I fully expect some formation tinkering in the pre-season games, as much as anything to help him assess the adaptability of his players.
The Preston starting eleven / formation is when it gets interesting - tho again, as per Nix above, 10 (league) games in seems a good time to judge whether there's been a massive backtrack or not....and whether Marti preferring 4231 as he felt it suited the squad was a major factor in the fall out.
Your questions are all valid, I'm just not sure I agree we should be sweating on the answers right now, before a proverbial ball has been kicked. |
Yes that's where I am.
Don't duck out Hunter. Healthy non-abusive but robust debate is what this MB is all about! | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 10:14 - Jul 4 with 491 views | TheChef |
Nourry is the boss - he can flip flop as much as he likes! |  |
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| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 10:23 - Jul 4 with 451 views | QPRSam |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 09:11 - Jul 3 by nix |
Just a question as I've only seen him in the two PL Cup games SF & F but thought he looked excellent going forward but wasn't tested so much defensively. How do you think he'd do against much better Championship wingers?
Also wondering if we might put Smyth on the left this season as he's a much better cover for the LB than Chair IMO. |
Yeah I think it's a valid question and we'll only know once we see him truly tested in a Championship game. It was only last year he was getting full 90s in the Copa Libertadores, if you've watched any South American football you'll know how physically demanding these games can be.
I think like you said, in most of these games he had more opportunities to showcase his attacking game which I think is brilliant. Some of his linkup with Sutton was great. Just looking forward to seeing him more, hopefully he gets minutes in pre season | | | |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 12:45 - Jul 4 with 380 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Ziyad Larkeche contract extension on 10:14 - Jul 4 by TheChef |
Nourry is the boss - he can flip flop as much as he likes! |
He's not the boss. He's an employee who takes direction from the board and owners. | | | |
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