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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 09:54 - Jul 9 by Northernr
If you hadn't drunk all the Kool-Aid, there'd maybe be a bit more to go around
Everything is gonna turn out good this season. My prediction is a mid table finish, maybe scrapping top 10. We will start slowly, but gain momentum post New Year. Then smash the league in 26/27 with DS players promoted to the 1st team this season ripping it up.
So far even you must admit its all looking pretty good so far (except the LB, CM & ST positions).
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:54 - Jul 9 by lassel
You’re missing the key point. Qpr getting some of the payoff back is good news and I’m sure supported by all fans.
However ultimately it makes 0 difference if MC pays a release or a new employer does except to the club who want to spin it as a success. Jeopardising that for the chance to say you ‘won’ by ‘only’ ending up paying out most of the contract rather then all of it is just pointless ego driven nonsense.
Get it sorted, get some money back, spend it strengthening the squad and be happy with the exciting new guy.
You seem to assume that if your scenario were to happen, we would be given the details of it. We won't be given any details by Nourry and it's unlikely to happen through Cifuentes. Whether the football media could be relied upon to report the truth is highly doubtful.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:26 - Jul 9 with 2508 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:11 - Jul 9 by RBlock
Lee Cook didn't go to Fulham on a free, he cost them £2.5m, and then he paid his £25,000 signing on fee back to the club as we were skint at the time. Entirely different.
I thought that signing on fee was holding the deal up, as it had something to do with who actually paid it.
I'm not sure it was entirely benevolent, the way i remember it was that at the 11th hour he effectively waived it to get the deal done.
Which is what MC will be doing when he takes on a new role. Giving back money paid to him, so there are some parallels to be drawn
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:30 - Jul 9 with 2465 views
You seem to assume that if your scenario were to happen, we would be given the details of it. We won't be given any details by Nourry and it's unlikely to happen through Cifuentes. Whether the football media could be relied upon to report the truth is highly doubtful.
Isn't this situation quite common when Coaches change clubs? Wasn't it this kind of deal that stopped Marti coming to QPR a season earlier than he did?
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:43 - Jul 9 with 2395 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:21 - Jul 9 by Mirrorball
Your "red flags" only appear to be red flags if your interpretation of what happened is correct.
Did Nourry claim to be involved in identifying and signing Marti? Yes he did. Something that is backed up by the CEO at the time. Who do you think is more informed about his involvement in signing him. Is it you or the man who worked on the signing day to day?
Did he allow Ben Williams to continue his involvement with the club remotely? Yes he did. Did he do that because Ben Williams is his friend as you speculate or did he feel (wrongly) that the club would continue to benefit from having him involved even if he wasn't in situ? We don't know but you you insinuate that your speculation is fact.
Is there less communication than before? Yes there is. Nourry has said, for example, that he believes not revealing contract details gives a competitive edge. He may be wrong or he may be right. You interpret that as him trying to hide his "lies".
Your "red flags" are only red if you believe your interpretations which are not facts just unfounded opinions.
Well, as NorthernR pointed out on another thread, we'd been interested in Marti since long before Nourry was here permanently or as a consultant. It seems a fairly transparent attempt to align himself with a positive aspect of the club, as Marti was highly liked. I think we should be able to agree that's a lie.
Ben Williams was someone signed in Ainsworths reign as a recommendation from Nourrys old company, so there is a pre-existing relationship there with Nourry which it's fair to assume allowed him to retain his job when nobody else would have. Williams quite rightly took credit for fewer injuries the season before, so why did such a seemingly key role be allowed to change to remote and part time. Turns out his return clarified that he had actually left a full time role and only been a consultant at the club but we weren't told. So why did we allow the club to essentially have a season with increased injuries and make it seem like the position was filled if not to hold it for Williams to come back. How is that in the interest of the club. Also when we had all those injuries why did Nourry come out publicly and say they were impact injuries when it was clearly an issue with muscle injuries and claim we were still below average for injuries?
It's not just the contract lengths, we still haven't heard about Colback or Fox (or did I miss that?) We get no update on someone who was hailed as key to the reduced injuries the season before essentially leaving the club we then get lies about how many injuries we've had.
You might be ok with the above but I don't see how any of it benefits the club.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:57 - Jul 9 with 2318 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 11:11 - Jul 9 by lassel
Agreed in principle but of course it comes back to the initial point before MC left that both sides should just be grown ups and part gracefully.
Even now, they want a new employer to pay them rather than MC give back some of his payoff so that they can spin that they got paid compensation rather than admitting MC ‘only’ got paid a net £xxx,000k to leave.
Just be grown ups, sort it gracefully and move on - we appear to have gotten a good’un in the new guy, vibes seem pretty positive, why bog yourself down still in petty old ego clashes.
It has nothing to do with "spin".
I'm sure Marti is not a pauper but he is unlikely to be as wealthy as a Championship football club.
If you're owed money and there are two parties who could be paying you that money then you always ensure it's the wealthier of the two who has to take on the responsibility.
It's just good business practice.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:57 - Jul 9 with 2318 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:43 - Jul 9 by QPR_Jim
Well, as NorthernR pointed out on another thread, we'd been interested in Marti since long before Nourry was here permanently or as a consultant. It seems a fairly transparent attempt to align himself with a positive aspect of the club, as Marti was highly liked. I think we should be able to agree that's a lie.
Ben Williams was someone signed in Ainsworths reign as a recommendation from Nourrys old company, so there is a pre-existing relationship there with Nourry which it's fair to assume allowed him to retain his job when nobody else would have. Williams quite rightly took credit for fewer injuries the season before, so why did such a seemingly key role be allowed to change to remote and part time. Turns out his return clarified that he had actually left a full time role and only been a consultant at the club but we weren't told. So why did we allow the club to essentially have a season with increased injuries and make it seem like the position was filled if not to hold it for Williams to come back. How is that in the interest of the club. Also when we had all those injuries why did Nourry come out publicly and say they were impact injuries when it was clearly an issue with muscle injuries and claim we were still below average for injuries?
It's not just the contract lengths, we still haven't heard about Colback or Fox (or did I miss that?) We get no update on someone who was hailed as key to the reduced injuries the season before essentially leaving the club we then get lies about how many injuries we've had.
You might be ok with the above but I don't see how any of it benefits the club.
I'm not disputing that we were interested in Marti before Nourry arrived but if the CEO at the time of Marti's appointment described Nourry as being influential in his identification and appointment then I'm more inclined to believe him than your inference that any involvement is a lie.
Let me assume that our good injury record the season before was down to Ben Williams (at least in some part). Given the choice between losing him completely and have him continue on a part-time remote basis then I'd say that the second option was in the interest of the club. Even though it patently didn't work out that way. Being wrong is not the same thing as being disingenuous.
Maybe we haven't heard about Colback or Fox because discussions are still on going so there is nothing to report yet.
There are always different ways to look at things. I think the club is improving so I see positive intentions whereas you infer his actions as being the result of negative intentions.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:01 - Jul 9 with 2276 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 07:46 - Jul 9 by QPR_Jim
I'm surprised someone of your towering intellect is unable to grasp a scenario where Marti may love the club where the fans sing his name through thick and thin and where players like Dunne give him 100% each game. Yet at the same time dislike being told to play a certain formation (game model) that our squad isn't capable of winning with while the DoF's allows the guy in charge of making sure the players are fit is allowed to work part time and remotely and was reputedly keen to sack him last September.
In that situation it seems plausible that Marti both loves the club but would prefer to be employed elsewhere.
Of course pointing that out can only mean I hate CN because we certainly shouldn't be concerned about a DoF who claims credit for signing Marti because he's popular with the fans despite him being linked long before his involvement. Or someone who allows people to phone in their role from the other side of the world, so long as they are friends/employed through his old company. Or the fact that he's trying to limit communication with fans so that in the future we're less likely to have enough information to call out his lies. We should just turn a blind eye to all those red flags because it's more important to give CN the benefit of the doubt than worry about the club.
A further scenario is he loves the club/fans but is very ambitious and last season showed that staying here is unlikely to move him on in his career development. That's far more plausible to me given his seven clubs in the last 12 years record. Did he fall out with all the CEOs/dislike the formation he was made to play or did he just see the next step up the ladder? On the face of it he's played a blinder: signed a new contract on enhanced terms, got said contract paid up, at least in part, free to take up a new job having dodged the release clause with an enhanced profile in English football. A case of my lawyer is better than your lawyer?
We made a mistake in putting him on gardening leave I think but MC was going anyway IMO. The good news is we have a credible replacement and the MC saga didn't drag on longer. He definitely did a good job for us and generally think well of him but looking backwards isn't productive even though I love Ebs and continue to miss him.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:09 - Jul 9 with 2210 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 22:28 - Jul 8 by stainrods_elbow
I find your view frankly bizarre and perverse (no offence).
So our ex-manager, who was always telling how much he loved us/the club etc., sounds out alternative employment (either directly or through his representatives) and the club/our CEO is supposed to suck it up (instead of, rightly, feeling upset/ bewildered/ dishonoured)?
Instead, you somehow spin it into more evidence of CN's supposed industrial psychopathy, while bleating 'poor Marti' to anyone who'll listen!
Bizarre, as I say! Are you working for him or something?
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:01 - Jul 9 by QPR_Hibs
"I thought that signing on fee was holding the deal up, as it had something to do with who actually paid it."
I don't remember the specifics but, why would anyone except the purchasing club (Fulham) be liable for a player's signing on fee?
Deals can be structured anyway imaginable, but I reckon in this scenario the signing on fee was due to come out of the £2.5m coming in to QPR, which was in contention.
I think the same discussion happens around agents fees as well?
I'm sure I'd heard Lee talk about the deal on a podcast, maybe undr the cosh? Just read this, it was £250,000 so not small change. There is a quote here, that the club wanted more money, so Cook sweetened the deal by forgoing his signing on fee of 10% of the transfer fee, that would have been £62.k per year over the four year deal. If Fulham were Prem, maybe he was getting £15 or £20k p/w so still a big chunk of change to waive
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 12:57 - Jul 9 by Mirrorball
I'm not disputing that we were interested in Marti before Nourry arrived but if the CEO at the time of Marti's appointment described Nourry as being influential in his identification and appointment then I'm more inclined to believe him than your inference that any involvement is a lie.
Let me assume that our good injury record the season before was down to Ben Williams (at least in some part). Given the choice between losing him completely and have him continue on a part-time remote basis then I'd say that the second option was in the interest of the club. Even though it patently didn't work out that way. Being wrong is not the same thing as being disingenuous.
Maybe we haven't heard about Colback or Fox because discussions are still on going so there is nothing to report yet.
There are always different ways to look at things. I think the club is improving so I see positive intentions whereas you infer his actions as being the result of negative intentions.
The CEO at the time being Lee Hoos who wanted to become our club chairman as a "semi-retirement role" and subsequently appointed Nourry in as both CEO and DoF to help speed it up. Yes, when Nourry said why not hire that bloke that you nearly signed (but for his release clause) after Critchley left, he had no choice but to credit him as influential in identifying him.
On Williams, at what point in something not working do you rectify it? In this case it seem a full season, why so hesitant? Apparently keen to sack Marti in October for a poor start but sacking Williams and replacing with someone who could be based at the training ground never seemed to be on the cards. His back now so hopefully that can be put to bed, but it shows poor judgement in my option that it was ever allowed to happen and we should be worried by someone covering both roles having poor judgement as there's very few checks and balances.
I've said before that I'd not mind Nourry as the CEO with a DoF appointed to handle the football side of things. He'd be involved in hiring a DoF, so he could get someone who shares his vision for the development squad and also has a good understanding of data and want to use it for scouting, if that's what he wants. But the DoF would hopefully act as a bit of footballing knowledge to decide what our game model should be rather than Nourry deciding based on statistics or to make sure our squad is a bit more balanced. It would also act as a balance and hopefully help stop situations like Ben Williams occurring where he was clearly taking the p last season in working remotely and part time. To me that would be in the best interests of the football club, but that's not what is happening.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:50 - Jul 9 with 1942 views
Everything is gonna turn out good this season. My prediction is a mid table finish, maybe scrapping top 10. We will start slowly, but gain momentum post New Year. Then smash the league in 26/27 with DS players promoted to the 1st team this season ripping it up.
So far even you must admit its all looking pretty good so far (except the LB, CM & ST positions).
I’m happier than I was a month ago, but then I was ready for killing someone a month ago.
I’m pleased with the manager relative to some of the others we were linked with, but it could be Regis Le Bris or it could be Tim Walter. There are as many warning signs in his history as there are positive ones.
I love the Poku signing. I like the Mbengue signing. I think both show they’ve learned from their mistakes last year around the league’s physicality and our lack of it. Adamson I think is a bit Santos all over again - if you think someone is coming out of the A League to be a starter in the EFL that’ll bite you more likely than it will work.
I liked how we played against Stevenage with more progression out of midfield, but they were shyt and it was little more than a training exercise.
If you go in with those same 4 strikers and that midfield (minus Colback) then you’ll have all the same problems you had in those positions last year. Similarly if the plan is really to swap Paal for Larkeche at left back. But there’s loads of window left and as Dave Mc says “it’s qpr of course they’ll be signing someone”.
ATM I think we’ll be 14-15-16 as usual, mainly because on our budget that’s where we should be.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:59 - Jul 9 with 1860 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:45 - Jul 9 by QPR_Jim
The CEO at the time being Lee Hoos who wanted to become our club chairman as a "semi-retirement role" and subsequently appointed Nourry in as both CEO and DoF to help speed it up. Yes, when Nourry said why not hire that bloke that you nearly signed (but for his release clause) after Critchley left, he had no choice but to credit him as influential in identifying him.
On Williams, at what point in something not working do you rectify it? In this case it seem a full season, why so hesitant? Apparently keen to sack Marti in October for a poor start but sacking Williams and replacing with someone who could be based at the training ground never seemed to be on the cards. His back now so hopefully that can be put to bed, but it shows poor judgement in my option that it was ever allowed to happen and we should be worried by someone covering both roles having poor judgement as there's very few checks and balances.
I've said before that I'd not mind Nourry as the CEO with a DoF appointed to handle the football side of things. He'd be involved in hiring a DoF, so he could get someone who shares his vision for the development squad and also has a good understanding of data and want to use it for scouting, if that's what he wants. But the DoF would hopefully act as a bit of footballing knowledge to decide what our game model should be rather than Nourry deciding based on statistics or to make sure our squad is a bit more balanced. It would also act as a balance and hopefully help stop situations like Ben Williams occurring where he was clearly taking the p last season in working remotely and part time. To me that would be in the best interests of the football club, but that's not what is happening.
So you think Nourry was involved in appointing Marti? So what he said is not a lie?
Did anyone say that they wanted to sack Marti in October?
So your issue with Ben Williams coming back was that it took longer than you wanted rather than him being employed because he is Nourry's mate?
There is a difference between being data-led and basing every decision only on statistics.
As I said before the way we infer the intentions of Nourry is based on our perspective of how things are going. That doesn't mean our inferences are right or wrong but they are still just inferences.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:00 - Jul 9 with 1848 views
A further scenario is he loves the club/fans but is very ambitious and last season showed that staying here is unlikely to move him on in his career development. That's far more plausible to me given his seven clubs in the last 12 years record. Did he fall out with all the CEOs/dislike the formation he was made to play or did he just see the next step up the ladder? On the face of it he's played a blinder: signed a new contract on enhanced terms, got said contract paid up, at least in part, free to take up a new job having dodged the release clause with an enhanced profile in English football. A case of my lawyer is better than your lawyer?
We made a mistake in putting him on gardening leave I think but MC was going anyway IMO. The good news is we have a credible replacement and the MC saga didn't drag on longer. He definitely did a good job for us and generally think well of him but looking backwards isn't productive even though I love Ebs and continue to miss him.
That's fair enough Nix, I get that he has his own career to think about. But I'm not sure his approach to being manager in lower leagues of Spain and Scandinavian clubs would necessarily dictate what he'd do here. The Championship is a good showcase to get a job in the Premier League either by over-achieving or getting promoted. He's obviously not scared to challenge himself by moving to a new club and seeing what he can do, or taking over clubs in trouble at the foot of the table. I wonder if the difference here is that he didn't see an upside either due to FFP restrictions or our organisation that made him realise that his chances of progressing to a point where he'd be in the frame for a Premier League job here were limited. I guess we'll never know.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:10 - Jul 9 with 1772 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:59 - Jul 9 by Mirrorball
So you think Nourry was involved in appointing Marti? So what he said is not a lie?
Did anyone say that they wanted to sack Marti in October?
So your issue with Ben Williams coming back was that it took longer than you wanted rather than him being employed because he is Nourry's mate?
There is a difference between being data-led and basing every decision only on statistics.
As I said before the way we infer the intentions of Nourry is based on our perspective of how things are going. That doesn't mean our inferences are right or wrong but they are still just inferences.
You said identified, if he was already known to us how did Nourry identify him?
I think there was a press release to the fans saying they intended to sack Marti! Of course there wasn't, it was rumored but unless you work at the club you can't say whether the rumor was true or not.
I have an issue with people not rectifying their mistakes in a timely fashion, don't you? Especially when they are supposed to be in charge of something important. Ben Williams was a Retexo hire, so there is a pre-existing relationship to Nourry outside of being a QPR employee which could be a conflict of interest. Do we still use his old company to hire staff?
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:26 - Jul 9 with 1671 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:10 - Jul 9 by QPR_Jim
You said identified, if he was already known to us how did Nourry identify him?
I think there was a press release to the fans saying they intended to sack Marti! Of course there wasn't, it was rumored but unless you work at the club you can't say whether the rumor was true or not.
I have an issue with people not rectifying their mistakes in a timely fashion, don't you? Especially when they are supposed to be in charge of something important. Ben Williams was a Retexo hire, so there is a pre-existing relationship to Nourry outside of being a QPR employee which could be a conflict of interest. Do we still use his old company to hire staff?
with us now going fully balls depp in recruiting youth for the first team and a very weak in some areas squad left back and striking areas once agian , im sorry but im seeing a very slow poor start to the season , issue is does the latest victim to coach the club have the skills and knowledge to get us out of it again ? we are back to square one with a manager new to the league and to english football. and apart from winning a cup in 2019 has been pretty poor since then .
anything above the relegtion zone will do for me this season
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:26 - Jul 9 by wombat
with us now going fully balls depp in recruiting youth for the first team and a very weak in some areas squad left back and striking areas once agian , im sorry but im seeing a very slow poor start to the season , issue is does the latest victim to coach the club have the skills and knowledge to get us out of it again ? we are back to square one with a manager new to the league and to english football. and apart from winning a cup in 2019 has been pretty poor since then .
anything above the relegtion zone will do for me this season
Two things in our favour on that is this manager so far has burned bright early and faded later, and our fixtures to start to the season are soft as sht.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:41 - Jul 9 with 1571 views
Well you can see why they might be interested in Marti. They are facing some tough financial issues even with their parachute payments. Marti knows the Championship and won’t get them relegated. Will be interesting to see how he performs with that squad and more resources albeit slim - it seems. Good luck to him. The compensation is business and nothing more - let’s move on.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:48 - Jul 9 with 1518 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 13:50 - Jul 9 by Northernr
I’m happier than I was a month ago, but then I was ready for killing someone a month ago.
I’m pleased with the manager relative to some of the others we were linked with, but it could be Regis Le Bris or it could be Tim Walter. There are as many warning signs in his history as there are positive ones.
I love the Poku signing. I like the Mbengue signing. I think both show they’ve learned from their mistakes last year around the league’s physicality and our lack of it. Adamson I think is a bit Santos all over again - if you think someone is coming out of the A League to be a starter in the EFL that’ll bite you more likely than it will work.
I liked how we played against Stevenage with more progression out of midfield, but they were shyt and it was little more than a training exercise.
If you go in with those same 4 strikers and that midfield (minus Colback) then you’ll have all the same problems you had in those positions last year. Similarly if the plan is really to swap Paal for Larkeche at left back. But there’s loads of window left and as Dave Mc says “it’s qpr of course they’ll be signing someone”.
ATM I think we’ll be 14-15-16 as usual, mainly because on our budget that’s where we should be.
"If you go in with those same 4 strikers and that midfield (minus Colback) then you’ll have all the same problems you had in those positions last year."
I thought you were a little more positive about Kelman than that. I certainly want to see him given a good go.
Agree with you regarding midfield.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:53 - Jul 9 with 1467 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:29 - Jul 9 by Northernr
Two things in our favour on that is this manager so far has burned bright early and faded later, and our fixtures to start to the season are soft as sht.
Might just be me, but I'm seeing some tough fixtures in those first 10 matches. Early matches in a season are generally close affairs: so Preston won't be an easy start. At this stage, I would say that only Oxford, Sheffield Wednesday and Charlton could be viewed as perhaps being easier games.
We may stregthen the squad in time, but we are weaker at this point having lost: Edwards, Saito and Paal. Perhaps Colback too.
[Post edited 9 Jul 14:58]
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:59 - Jul 9 with 1441 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:00 - Jul 9 by QPR_Jim
That's fair enough Nix, I get that he has his own career to think about. But I'm not sure his approach to being manager in lower leagues of Spain and Scandinavian clubs would necessarily dictate what he'd do here. The Championship is a good showcase to get a job in the Premier League either by over-achieving or getting promoted. He's obviously not scared to challenge himself by moving to a new club and seeing what he can do, or taking over clubs in trouble at the foot of the table. I wonder if the difference here is that he didn't see an upside either due to FFP restrictions or our organisation that made him realise that his chances of progressing to a point where he'd be in the frame for a Premier League job here were limited. I guess we'll never know.
I agree it's hard to stand out in a club that appears to be stagnating, which looked like the case from Marti's first to his second season. We know that it was a bit more complex given the injuries we had and the number of inexperienced Championship players. But the table carries a lot of sway. Getting QPR to say top 10 would be an achievement from our perspective but not eye catching. If on the other hand Marti gets a club like WBA to top six level and gets promotion that's a huge leap for him.
I don't get why people think he'd give that up cos he likes LR.
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:03 - Jul 9 with 1417 views
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:29 - Jul 9 by Northernr
Two things in our favour on that is this manager so far has burned bright early and faded later, and our fixtures to start to the season are soft as sht.
thats my biggest fear, get the early games wrong and catch up will be hard . esp looking at november , and with him being nourries man will be do a ben williams and wait until its to late to change things ? hopefully we will be bringing a decent left back in and at least two strikers in the coming weeks , things may look a bit more steady then .
Marti to Leicester…maybe on 14:53 - Jul 9 by Loyalitat
Might just be me, but I'm seeing some tough fixtures in those first 10 matches. Early matches in a season are generally close affairs: so Preston won't be an easy start. At this stage, I would say that only Oxford, Sheffield Wednesday and Charlton could be viewed as perhaps being easier games.
We may stregthen the squad in time, but we are weaker at this point having lost: Edwards, Saito and Paal. Perhaps Colback too.
[Post edited 9 Jul 14:58]
If you don’t like those first 12 games, you’re gonna hate the 12 after
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Marti to Leicester…maybe on 15:29 - Jul 9 with 1236 views
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