| Just back - Watford reflections 19:25 - Aug 16 with 10939 views | dannyblue |
Mbengue was not good at left back.
Cook has lost some pace and with that some confidence. A couple times he overcommitted early because, I guess, he didn't think he'd be able to recover.
Unlike last week, Field played deep and Madsen further forward.
Even so, Sammy arrived on two good chances...and put them both wide. A theme.
Madsen effete, as so often.
Burrell promising and physical.
Some games Dembele just gets bullied by the big boys. Needs to learn how to con fouls from Smyth the master.
Ref was annoying and a bit of a homer, but of course we've known worse and it didn't affect the result.
We looked pretty good for the 20 minutes we had a balanced 11 (i.e., once Esquerdinha and Varane came on, and before Celar came one).
What a hit from Kieran.
Chair worked really hard. Would love to see his heat map.
We'll be ok if we can get anything like our first 11 playing regularly. [Post edited 16 Aug 19:26]
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 00:17 - Aug 17 with 2040 views | YBlockW12 |
At times in the first half we had Morgan, Madsen and Dembele trying to defend the right hand side, no wonder they were walking through at will.
Is a central midfielder the best cover we have for Dunne? We desperately need him back for Coventry.
If Varane is fit for the bench he should be fit to start, we need our best players on the park from the start. |  | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 00:27 - Aug 17 with 1950 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 19:40 - Aug 16 by Geoff78 |
Agree about Mbengue. I imagine Cook is seen as cover these days.
Unfortunately. I thought Morrison might deserve some blame for both goals, although not just his fault. I thought he was good last week.
I'm not sure we can play 2 creatives (Chair + Madsen) together. We need Sam and Varane in there with Chair the main creator.
Kolli added something in the second half, but that might be because Smyth wasn't 100%. I was disappointed in Burrell, but far too early to form an opinion.
The main issue for me was how weak and slow we were especially in the first half. Watford seemed to win every challenge with their greater physicality. Stephan may still be getting used to the physicality of the Championship and how he needs to prepare and select the team. |
I thought he was supposed to have watched all our games last season! |  |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:07 - Aug 17 with 1887 views | Boston |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 21:50 - Aug 16 by Hunterhoop |
I mean the straight swap massively changed the game. Forget roles and profiles for a second. We took off a bloke ostensibly playing in the middle of the pitch and replaced him with another bloke who played in the same area of the pitch.
The difference it made was huge. Every Watford fan I spoke to commented on it. Every fan in the away end knew it. Change happened, huge improvement.
Sometimes football is complicated. Sometimes it is not.
Madsen had a nightmare. Bench him. Watch us beat Cov… |
Fair observation. | |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:10 - Aug 17 with 1878 views | Boston |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 23:31 - Aug 16 by actonman |
I will just comment on that first half as that’s where the game was lost ! Left hand side was a fcking shambles for 45mins and my 79 year old mother who knows fcuk all about football would be no worse than madsen in midfield!
How the fcking bjusus Julian let that play out for 45 minutes without reacting or changing something while we all watched that car crash in slow motion is very worrying . |
Because Julia is learning English, let's hope he's a good student. | |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:14 - Aug 17 with 1873 views | ozexile |
This is what I don't understand. You go into the season planning to play Larakeche at LB and Esq as backup.
Larakeche gets injured which is bad luck then surely Esq just steps in.?
You don't alter your whole team to fit in a CB there and an unfit Smyth In front of him.
Yes he's young, yes he needs to develop etc but how's he gonna learn sitting on his crack? He wasn't included against Plymouth so he's seen as a first team squad player. This is the disjointed thinking that confuses everyone.
So we waste a whole half with a disjointed team and lo and behold we lose again.
Amateur hour from everyone involved. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:22 - Aug 17 with 1847 views | numptydumpty |
Mbuenge we are led to believe is better on the right side, so he could have covered right back.
Morgan could have taken Madsens place in the middle and if he was unsure as to playing Esquerdinha from the start , could have had Harvey Vale in at left back today, perhaps.
Dembele had a poor game today for me. Smith also was a strange choice from the start, as he hasn't had much football recently either. Varane will be a big tick, coming back though.
Also, shout out for Kolli today as he was a presence today and performed well...
Someone on here, has written that Burrell is giving Sinclair Armstrong vibes - WOW !!
Three games in...... |  |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:39 - Aug 17 with 1815 views | ozexile |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:22 - Aug 17 by numptydumpty |
Mbuenge we are led to believe is better on the right side, so he could have covered right back.
Morgan could have taken Madsens place in the middle and if he was unsure as to playing Esquerdinha from the start , could have had Harvey Vale in at left back today, perhaps.
Dembele had a poor game today for me. Smith also was a strange choice from the start, as he hasn't had much football recently either. Varane will be a big tick, coming back though.
Also, shout out for Kolli today as he was a presence today and performed well...
Someone on here, has written that Burrell is giving Sinclair Armstrong vibes - WOW !!
Three games in...... |
Madsen for the first goal. Oh my goodness. At least look interested out there. Morgan should have been invited instead of Madsen. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 05:15 - Aug 17 with 1651 views | Hunterhoop |
I don’t understand all this love form Mbengue. Cook is a much better centre half and defender. Again, Watford fans I spoke to after the game all thought our left back was “a clown”. Yes, he was playing out of position and was a right footer at left back, but there can’t be a reading of the game where Mbengue is better than Cook. He is not. |  | | |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 05:36 - Aug 17 with 1627 views | Rsole |
Having slept on it, what I really don’t understand is how we can only play for a
maximum of one half of football, with more or less the same personnel and formation.
PNE - some of the first half. Watford - more of the second half.
(Plymouth already erased from memory)
Can’t blame fitness for the second half against Watford so what is it that changes ?
I assume Julien had some harsh words at halftime yesterday and the introduction of Kolli helped, but what did he say before we kicked off with the attempted 50:22 kick(s) to touch ?
If we can only perform for 45mins, someone better do some analysis of exactly which 45 we need to focus on soon ! Maybe that’s one for the performance guy to take on and be accountable for. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:13 - Aug 17 with 1524 views | HammersmithR |
That first half was utter dreadful. I know we equalised but we certainly didn’t deserve the goal. The side looked wrong and unbalanced from the start. It’s the second game of the season and we didn’t have a full back in the starting 11. Mbengue was horrendous at left back. Morgan did a job at rb, but he’s simply not a right back. Don’t start me on the Field and Madsen combination. Walsh is giving me Lumley vibes. He’s a bag of nerves. I feel for the lad. Nardi I assume is being forced out the club as he’s out of contract at the end of the season and Nourry wants some money for him. What happens when the Transfer Window end and he hasn’t been sold? I really like Cook, but it looks like age has caught up with him from what I saw yesterday. The Championship is really intense with a lot of athletic and physical players. We were outmuscled so much yesterday. Smyth, Dembele and Chair are just tiny and we just get out fought in these areas. Although I thought Chair was our best player and was trying. His does hold on to the ball for so long at times.
We desperately need a left back, a centre back and a centre mid. If this isn’t addressed by the transfer window ending we are going to be in for a season of struggle. I still cannot warm to the new manager. Listening to his interview post the game yesterday was the first time I have felt he looked concerned. Maybe he’s starting to see what many of us are seeing with some of these players? It is still early days, but he’s going to have to learn quickly in this league. We have played 2 winnable games and only got 1 point. Coventry is going to be tough. It’s a ground where our record is not great. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:30 - Aug 17 with 1460 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 05:15 - Aug 17 by Hunterhoop |
I don’t understand all this love form Mbengue. Cook is a much better centre half and defender. Again, Watford fans I spoke to after the game all thought our left back was “a clown”. Yes, he was playing out of position and was a right footer at left back, but there can’t be a reading of the game where Mbengue is better than Cook. He is not. |
He was very good against Preston. It's a tough ask to play in a completely different position and expect the same performance. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:44 - Aug 17 with 1395 views | dmm |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:13 - Aug 17 by HammersmithR |
That first half was utter dreadful. I know we equalised but we certainly didn’t deserve the goal. The side looked wrong and unbalanced from the start. It’s the second game of the season and we didn’t have a full back in the starting 11. Mbengue was horrendous at left back. Morgan did a job at rb, but he’s simply not a right back. Don’t start me on the Field and Madsen combination. Walsh is giving me Lumley vibes. He’s a bag of nerves. I feel for the lad. Nardi I assume is being forced out the club as he’s out of contract at the end of the season and Nourry wants some money for him. What happens when the Transfer Window end and he hasn’t been sold? I really like Cook, but it looks like age has caught up with him from what I saw yesterday. The Championship is really intense with a lot of athletic and physical players. We were outmuscled so much yesterday. Smyth, Dembele and Chair are just tiny and we just get out fought in these areas. Although I thought Chair was our best player and was trying. His does hold on to the ball for so long at times.
We desperately need a left back, a centre back and a centre mid. If this isn’t addressed by the transfer window ending we are going to be in for a season of struggle. I still cannot warm to the new manager. Listening to his interview post the game yesterday was the first time I have felt he looked concerned. Maybe he’s starting to see what many of us are seeing with some of these players? It is still early days, but he’s going to have to learn quickly in this league. We have played 2 winnable games and only got 1 point. Coventry is going to be tough. It’s a ground where our record is not great. |
Much of what's been posted about yesterday's game, including your post, paints the same picture. However, we're 2 league games in, so rushing to judgment is premature. Some things will almost certainly change in the coming weeks, including players available and the starting 11.
The same goes for Stephan. After all, Cifuentes' start to last season was absolutely terrible but he turned it around and fans stayed with him.
I'm disappointed with our start but I want to see how things develop over the next 8 to 10 games. We may well be looking at a different picture come November. |  | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:48 - Aug 17 with 1363 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 21:29 - Aug 16 by Jimboqpr |
How did Walsh get on today? |
Less nervy. Did what he had to do, not at fault for the goals.
Let him know he's #1, stick with and focus on improving his distribution and solidify what plays in front of him. |  |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:57 - Aug 17 with 1331 views | HammersmithR |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:48 - Aug 17 by PlanetHonneywood |
Less nervy. Did what he had to do, not at fault for the goals.
Let him know he's #1, stick with and focus on improving his distribution and solidify what plays in front of him. |
Walsh’s poor kick went straight to their lad about 30 yards away. That gave them the ball and they scored. Definitely at fault for that goal although Morrison’s positioning was poor as well. Wrong side of his man. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 08:32 - Aug 17 with 1193 views | Hunterhoop |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:44 - Aug 17 by dmm |
Much of what's been posted about yesterday's game, including your post, paints the same picture. However, we're 2 league games in, so rushing to judgment is premature. Some things will almost certainly change in the coming weeks, including players available and the starting 11.
The same goes for Stephan. After all, Cifuentes' start to last season was absolutely terrible but he turned it around and fans stayed with him.
I'm disappointed with our start but I want to see how things develop over the next 8 to 10 games. We may well be looking at a different picture come November. |
Cifuentes turned it around when he went to a 3 man central midfield of Varane, Field, and Morgan. No number 10, no luxury coaster. Varane sat and Field and Morgan got up and down and side to side. It was essentially a 4141, and we went to a mid block not a high press too.
What is frustrating (as forecast by many of us) is that it appears Stephan is going to have to go through all the same learnings Cifuentes did, while we potentially piss away games in the first quarter of the season again. If that happens, it’ll condemn us to another relegation fight.
But it’s not just the midfield, we tried to play high up the pitch with a high press in the first half and they kept springing us in behind. Our full backs kept making audacious underlap runs when they played it up to the winger leaving no one home. Again, like last year, we’ll learn our squad can’t execute that.
He’ll learn that we’re not very good at playing out from the goalkeeper and we’ll start pumping it out to the full back to win a header and play from the half way line, like Cifuentes did.
All stuff we went through last season. How quickly or slowly he learns it will determine our fate. Or he persists in the hope of making game model work. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 08:39 - Aug 17 with 1167 views | Big_Mac |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 08:32 - Aug 17 by Hunterhoop |
Cifuentes turned it around when he went to a 3 man central midfield of Varane, Field, and Morgan. No number 10, no luxury coaster. Varane sat and Field and Morgan got up and down and side to side. It was essentially a 4141, and we went to a mid block not a high press too.
What is frustrating (as forecast by many of us) is that it appears Stephan is going to have to go through all the same learnings Cifuentes did, while we potentially piss away games in the first quarter of the season again. If that happens, it’ll condemn us to another relegation fight.
But it’s not just the midfield, we tried to play high up the pitch with a high press in the first half and they kept springing us in behind. Our full backs kept making audacious underlap runs when they played it up to the winger leaving no one home. Again, like last year, we’ll learn our squad can’t execute that.
He’ll learn that we’re not very good at playing out from the goalkeeper and we’ll start pumping it out to the full back to win a header and play from the half way line, like Cifuentes did.
All stuff we went through last season. How quickly or slowly he learns it will determine our fate. Or he persists in the hope of making game model work. |
He supposedly watched all our games from last year so you’d hoped he’d have already learned all of this. |  | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 08:58 - Aug 17 with 1078 views | Hunterhoop |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 08:39 - Aug 17 by Big_Mac |
He supposedly watched all our games from last year so you’d hoped he’d have already learned all of this. |
Well, quite. But does it look like it?? | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:06 - Aug 17 with 1031 views | dmm |
Yeah, good points Hunterhoop. I am hoping Stephan is quicker on the uptake than Cifuentes was. Mind you, I suspect that his speed of learning may not be the only issue. There are also Nourry diktats to contend with. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:15 - Aug 17 with 959 views | Rangersw12 |
Would also add that Dembele did nothing to help Morgan in the first half.
We need Morgan , Varane and Field as the 3 in midfield need next week. What Nourry and the twitter virgins don't realise is that you need players who will compete and win headers/tackles in central midfield without that we are too easy to play against | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:20 - Aug 17 with 935 views | mart_Goblin |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 01:22 - Aug 17 by numptydumpty |
Mbuenge we are led to believe is better on the right side, so he could have covered right back.
Morgan could have taken Madsens place in the middle and if he was unsure as to playing Esquerdinha from the start , could have had Harvey Vale in at left back today, perhaps.
Dembele had a poor game today for me. Smith also was a strange choice from the start, as he hasn't had much football recently either. Varane will be a big tick, coming back though.
Also, shout out for Kolli today as he was a presence today and performed well...
Someone on here, has written that Burrell is giving Sinclair Armstrong vibes - WOW !!
Three games in...... |
Sorry ND downvoted in error .
Actually agreed with every word . |  | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:23 - Aug 17 with 922 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:57 - Aug 17 by HammersmithR |
Walsh’s poor kick went straight to their lad about 30 yards away. That gave them the ball and they scored. Definitely at fault for that goal although Morrison’s positioning was poor as well. Wrong side of his man. |
Good point. I'd successfully erased that from memory. | |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:23 - Aug 17 with 914 views | Markofthegrove |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:30 - Aug 17 by Wegerles_Stairs |
He was very good against Preston. It's a tough ask to play in a completely different position and expect the same performance. |
But it's not a tough ask to be expected to close down a man that he just watched cross the ball for their 2nd goal.
He literally stood there and watched. Complete lack of effort. Thats nothing to do with playing out of position. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:28 - Aug 17 with 874 views | Markofthegrove |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 07:44 - Aug 17 by dmm |
Much of what's been posted about yesterday's game, including your post, paints the same picture. However, we're 2 league games in, so rushing to judgment is premature. Some things will almost certainly change in the coming weeks, including players available and the starting 11.
The same goes for Stephan. After all, Cifuentes' start to last season was absolutely terrible but he turned it around and fans stayed with him.
I'm disappointed with our start but I want to see how things develop over the next 8 to 10 games. We may well be looking at a different picture come November. |
But we are now a season and a half into the "game model".
Its a continuation of that. The only time we have had any sustained success in winning games, was when Cifuentes ditched the game model and went with 3 out and out midfielders and dropped the 10.
If you want to play with a 10, you need two wingers that will work back and defend (and backups) and also 3/4 players capable of playing 6 or 8.
The midfield, yet again is a massive problem. | | | |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:37 - Aug 17 with 822 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Just back - Watford reflections on 00:27 - Aug 17 by stainrods_elbow |
I thought he was supposed to have watched all our games last season! |
Stephan obviously doesn’t read this message board or he’d know you can’t play Field and Madsen as a midfield 2. It doesn’t work. Ever. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Just back - Watford reflections on 09:38 - Aug 17 with 813 views | GaryBannister86 |
What I can't get my head around is if the manager has to do what the CEO / DofF tells him to do (I presume no-one knows this for certain, but the team selection on Tuesday and picking Madsen in that midfield today would perhaps indicate otherwise) then OK, I understand that is the game model and the modern way. I don't like it as an old fart, but I can see what the overall idea is.
I would be concerned enough as it is, but could let it go, if that was being driven by a chief that was Mark Warburton or Steve Gallen or some such experienced football luminary. But if this is being driven by someone with literally zero experience of managing teams, seems inexplicable to me. Or does this where de Souza (?) etc etc come in? I don't understand how it all works.
I would love someone at the club, honestly, tell us why the Tuesday selection was made and why a manager who has allegedly done his homework and watched our entire last season can think picking that midfield away at Watford is the right thing to do. I am not a tactics man but even I posted on seeing the teamsheet that the midfield doesn't work.
Fair enough if it was the manager's sole decision and mistake. Fair enough (if inexplicable) if it was driven from above. I would just like to know. Because then the manager's "fatigue" post-match comment could lead to all sorts of questions being posed at the right people. |  | | |
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