| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:38 - Sep 20 with 2851 views | D_Alien |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:34 - Sep 20 by dawlishdale |
I mentioned earlier that there was standing water towards the TDS end on Tuesday. I'm amazed that this wasn't commented on more.
Uts obvious that any significant rainfall ( of which we have had quite a bit this past week) can't drain through the surface to the drains.
The only solution will be a complete relaying of the whole playing surface at considerable cost, or a relocation to a new stadium
To have not addressed this is stupid.
We are now being ridiculed throughout the country
Sadly, we are situated in the wettest large town in England, and this problem will never go away. |
It has been addressed, did you read the Ogden statement copied into this thread earlier?
There's nothing stupid about what they're doing, at any level |  |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:40 - Sep 20 with 2843 views | 442Dale |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:34 - Sep 20 by dawlishdale |
I mentioned earlier that there was standing water towards the TDS end on Tuesday. I'm amazed that this wasn't commented on more.
Uts obvious that any significant rainfall ( of which we have had quite a bit this past week) can't drain through the surface to the drains.
The only solution will be a complete relaying of the whole playing surface at considerable cost, or a relocation to a new stadium
To have not addressed this is stupid.
We are now being ridiculed throughout the country
Sadly, we are situated in the wettest large town in England, and this problem will never go away. |
It was mentioned in this thread a couple of days ago as soon when there was heavy rain forecast.
Plenty of games have suffered today because of the weather, if anything the later kick off has done us a favour by bringing this issue to the fore so early in the season.
Again, irrespective of the chances of completing a game in bad weather: do the covers prevent water from reaching the surface of the pitch or not?
Once that’s answered, we can move onto other problems. |  |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:56 - Sep 20 with 2762 views | dawlishdale |
Not really disagreeing that there's been significant rainfall over the last few days...but I do think it could have been communicated so much better to alert people who had to travel considerable distances from both clubs.
I also think we need a complete rethink on the playing surface.. it wasn't playable on many occasions last season and looks like we will face similar problems this season. This could lead us to fixture congestion and may lead us to drop points that we otherwise would have gained. |  | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:57 - Sep 20 with 2760 views | BigKindo |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 15:30 - Sep 20 by MoonyDale |
Hmmmm, rather him be suspended v Solihull than today.... |
Solihull win at York in 90 plus mins then get 2 reds |  | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 18:02 - Sep 20 with 2714 views | TVOS1907 |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:57 - Sep 20 by BigKindo |
Solihull win at York in 90 plus mins then get 2 reds |
So they'll both be suspended on Tuesday....
If it's on! |  |
| A wise man would be able to self-analyse and perhaps understand. |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 18:03 - Sep 20 with 2710 views | 442Dale |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:56 - Sep 20 by dawlishdale |
Not really disagreeing that there's been significant rainfall over the last few days...but I do think it could have been communicated so much better to alert people who had to travel considerable distances from both clubs.
I also think we need a complete rethink on the playing surface.. it wasn't playable on many occasions last season and looks like we will face similar problems this season. This could lead us to fixture congestion and may lead us to drop points that we otherwise would have gained. |
That communication and commitment to putting supporters first has been poor at best for decades. This has gone on since there were Dale forums when the internet became a thing.
It’s not even difficult to pick holes in the explanations because they do not think things through properly.
That said, there have been a series of excellent, transparent communications from the Ogdens since they’ve arrived. We await and expect another now. | |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 18:21 - Sep 20 with 2629 views | Daley_Lama |
Solihull only one red eventually, Worman sent off for second yellow off the bench celebrating the goal.
Belated’thanks’ to staff and volunteers who tried to get the game on today with the watersoppers etc |  |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 19:04 - Sep 20 with 2488 views | MAK |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 17:40 - Sep 20 by 442Dale |
It was mentioned in this thread a couple of days ago as soon when there was heavy rain forecast.
Plenty of games have suffered today because of the weather, if anything the later kick off has done us a favour by bringing this issue to the fore so early in the season.
Again, irrespective of the chances of completing a game in bad weather: do the covers prevent water from reaching the surface of the pitch or not?
Once that’s answered, we can move onto other problems. |
The only thing that would have saved today's game is a roof. The weather, and only the weather, is why this game has not gone ahead. The covers did their job. The problem is that since the dry weather broke at the back end of August, it has rained on 22 out of 26 days. The ground is wet for this time of year. On average 100mm of rain falls here in the month of September. Over 100mm of rain has fallen here since last Monday. It's been an exceptionally wet week. I own and run an engineered groundwork business and we lost 2 days this week. In September, that's unheard of. We'll be unlucky to see many weeks as wet throughout the rest of the season. I guess that where the covers overlap the rain runs off one cover, beneath another and the water pools hugely on the sodden grass.Last season we were unlucky with bad weather on match days, and its started again early this season. 24 hours earlier or 24 hours later and the game goes ahead. | | | |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 19:56 - Sep 20 with 2355 views | judd |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 19:04 - Sep 20 by MAK |
The only thing that would have saved today's game is a roof. The weather, and only the weather, is why this game has not gone ahead. The covers did their job. The problem is that since the dry weather broke at the back end of August, it has rained on 22 out of 26 days. The ground is wet for this time of year. On average 100mm of rain falls here in the month of September. Over 100mm of rain has fallen here since last Monday. It's been an exceptionally wet week. I own and run an engineered groundwork business and we lost 2 days this week. In September, that's unheard of. We'll be unlucky to see many weeks as wet throughout the rest of the season. I guess that where the covers overlap the rain runs off one cover, beneath another and the water pools hugely on the sodden grass.Last season we were unlucky with bad weather on match days, and its started again early this season. 24 hours earlier or 24 hours later and the game goes ahead. |
200 mm this past few days. |  |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 20:01 - Sep 20 with 2313 views | MAK |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 19:56 - Sep 20 by judd |
200 mm this past few days. |
With the rain bouncing off the north facing windows right now, it certainly feels like it. | | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 20:18 - Sep 20 with 2235 views | judd |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 20:01 - Sep 20 by MAK |
With the rain bouncing off the north facing windows right now, it certainly feels like it. |
I took a photo of measured jar on a wall near pitch/ groundsmans area.
Your insightful input really does put the problems faced this week into the reality faced. | |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 21:10 - Sep 20 with 2087 views | D_Alien |
Luckily, the rain is due to relent overnight and then we're forecast dry and bright through to the Solihull game
It'd be useful for the club, having taken stock of conditions in the morning perhaps, to confirm whether there's any chance of the pitch not being ready for Tuesday evening
To maintain momentum, we really need to get this game on, with the right result of course | |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 21:16 - Sep 20 with 2077 views | MAK |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 20:18 - Sep 20 by judd |
I took a photo of measured jar on a wall near pitch/ groundsmans area.
Your insightful input really does put the problems faced this week into the reality faced. |
Just a few facts to help bring a bit of reality into the discussion. It is now 9pm and the weather is still horrendous. I doubt we'll see another Saturday as bad as this all season. | | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 22:42 - Sep 20 with 1900 views | 49thseason |
On the basis that 1mm of water on 1sqm = 1 litre
Given the pitch is 7140 sq meters, 5mm of rain = 35,700 litres of rainwater that has to go somewhere thats nearly 8000 gallons ....my guess is that the rainfall today has been much more than 5mm possibly nearer to an inch or 25.4 mm so possibly up to 40,000 gallons or more........if it has rained more than 100mm this month , then 160,000 gallons of water has had to go somewhere....and thats just off the area of the pitch, throw in the surrounding track and what runs off the stands towards the pitch and the quantity of water that needs to escape is huge......
I have said this before but the water has to go somewhere , usually into the main drains but does it? Or is Spotland basically an outdoor swimming pool? The ultimate answer may be not to dig down but to build up the height of the pitch and dig deep drains round all 4 sides culminating in a huge outlet to the main drains under Sandy Lane outside the ground |  | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 23:13 - Sep 20 with 1827 views | 442Dale |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 22:42 - Sep 20 by 49thseason |
On the basis that 1mm of water on 1sqm = 1 litre
Given the pitch is 7140 sq meters, 5mm of rain = 35,700 litres of rainwater that has to go somewhere thats nearly 8000 gallons ....my guess is that the rainfall today has been much more than 5mm possibly nearer to an inch or 25.4 mm so possibly up to 40,000 gallons or more........if it has rained more than 100mm this month , then 160,000 gallons of water has had to go somewhere....and thats just off the area of the pitch, throw in the surrounding track and what runs off the stands towards the pitch and the quantity of water that needs to escape is huge......
I have said this before but the water has to go somewhere , usually into the main drains but does it? Or is Spotland basically an outdoor swimming pool? The ultimate answer may be not to dig down but to build up the height of the pitch and dig deep drains round all 4 sides culminating in a huge outlet to the main drains under Sandy Lane outside the ground |
The height of the pitch was raised in 2020. The problems remain.
There are details here around the some of the issues:
https://rochdaleafc.co.uk/pitch-update-5/ | |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 01:01 - Sep 21 with 1719 views | 49thseason |
I cant see where there is any reference to the pitch being raised, indeed it reads as though they put a slight tilt on it from the main stand towards the Willbuts. There is also reference to hundreds of drains being found and there being no apparent reason why its not draining other than a layer of stones (referred to as mixto) !
Essentially I suspect thst everyone simply underestimates the weather here and builds the drains accordingly when in reality a much more aggressivly draining system needs to be in place......
https://hornetsrugbyleague.co.uk/article/654/crown-oil-arena-pitch-update#:~:tex | | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 01:26 - Sep 21 with 1701 views | Sandyman |
Safe to say it was wetter than usual by some way yesterday
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 04:42 - Sep 21 with 1637 views | D_Alien |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 01:01 - Sep 21 by 49thseason |
I cant see where there is any reference to the pitch being raised, indeed it reads as though they put a slight tilt on it from the main stand towards the Willbuts. There is also reference to hundreds of drains being found and there being no apparent reason why its not draining other than a layer of stones (referred to as mixto) !
Essentially I suspect thst everyone simply underestimates the weather here and builds the drains accordingly when in reality a much more aggressivly draining system needs to be in place......
https://hornetsrugbyleague.co.uk/article/654/crown-oil-arena-pitch-update#:~:tex |
Back in the day (60s/70s) very few games were postponed due to Spotland being waterlogged. Any postponements were due to either very heavy snow or a frozen surface
Of course, games used to take place on what would've been described as a "midden", but the ball still bounced and rolled, and some of those games were exciting to watch; the winners usually the team most prepared to get stuck in
Yeah, different standards for playing surfaces now, but my point is: Spotland was playable... so what's changed? The weather certainly hasn't. Banging on about the amount of rain Rochdale gets doesn't get us anywhere. The pitch has just been messed about with too much, and by companies who promise all sorts but fall short on delivery [Post edited 21 Sep 4:44]
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 04:54 - Sep 21 with 1614 views | TalkingSutty |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 01:26 - Sep 21 by Sandyman |
Safe to say it was wetter than usual by some way yesterday
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I think the club dodged a big bullet yesterday, the referee was correct to postpone the game, he saved the pitch from irreparable damage had he attempted to play the game. In seasons past we've had isolated games that went ahead and the damage to the pitch has been terrible and had a knock on effect. Even with a good pitch and drainage we wouldnt have completed the game, the late kick off would have worked against us, the rain was pretty relentless. So, no damage done in the full scheme of things. It does make you question the decision to compete in the National Cup though, its pressure on the pitch that wasn't needed and adds to fixture congestion.
The Club and ground staff should treat yesterday as a practice run in regards to what to expect over the next five months. There also needs to be a realisation that the pitch covers don't work, they can't do if the pitch was unplayable as soon as they were pulled up. The pitch covers wouldn't have been laid on a already waterlogged pitch, nobody is daft enough to do that. Were the pitch covers laid down correctly? It sounds as though they were from Judd's explanation, so how did the water get underneath and deem the pitch unplayable? The other theory could be that the water is seaping up from underneath the pitch once we have significant rainfall, if that's the case then we have big problems because even covering the pitch isnt going to work.
The number one question that needs answering is how did so much water get under the rain covers and are the covers fit for purpose, do they let water in? We have a media team, a interview with the head groundsman would be good..but please ask the relevant questions. We also need to hear from Andy Duff in regards to what plans the club have going forward, we are due a bad winter and if it arrives it's now obvious that we aren't going to be able to get games on, is there a contingency plan to play some games elsewhere? If there isn't then i think those discussions need to take place. If we can't get games on the consequences for the club will be severe and the reputation of the club now goes before us in that respect. Accrington, Oldham, Halifax have all recently installed a new pitch, could we not see if its possible to play the National Cup and even FA Trophy games elsewhere, if not then withdraw from those competitions. I don't think just crossing our fingers and hoping is going to work this time, we got lucky last winter but even then the fixtures piled up. My hope is that the rain covers aren't fit for purpose and that some can be sourced that actually work, that would be the best scenario but they would need to be acquired as soon as possible. [Post edited 21 Sep 5:06]
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 07:01 - Sep 21 with 1537 views | D_Alien |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 04:54 - Sep 21 by TalkingSutty |
I think the club dodged a big bullet yesterday, the referee was correct to postpone the game, he saved the pitch from irreparable damage had he attempted to play the game. In seasons past we've had isolated games that went ahead and the damage to the pitch has been terrible and had a knock on effect. Even with a good pitch and drainage we wouldnt have completed the game, the late kick off would have worked against us, the rain was pretty relentless. So, no damage done in the full scheme of things. It does make you question the decision to compete in the National Cup though, its pressure on the pitch that wasn't needed and adds to fixture congestion.
The Club and ground staff should treat yesterday as a practice run in regards to what to expect over the next five months. There also needs to be a realisation that the pitch covers don't work, they can't do if the pitch was unplayable as soon as they were pulled up. The pitch covers wouldn't have been laid on a already waterlogged pitch, nobody is daft enough to do that. Were the pitch covers laid down correctly? It sounds as though they were from Judd's explanation, so how did the water get underneath and deem the pitch unplayable? The other theory could be that the water is seaping up from underneath the pitch once we have significant rainfall, if that's the case then we have big problems because even covering the pitch isnt going to work.
The number one question that needs answering is how did so much water get under the rain covers and are the covers fit for purpose, do they let water in? We have a media team, a interview with the head groundsman would be good..but please ask the relevant questions. We also need to hear from Andy Duff in regards to what plans the club have going forward, we are due a bad winter and if it arrives it's now obvious that we aren't going to be able to get games on, is there a contingency plan to play some games elsewhere? If there isn't then i think those discussions need to take place. If we can't get games on the consequences for the club will be severe and the reputation of the club now goes before us in that respect. Accrington, Oldham, Halifax have all recently installed a new pitch, could we not see if its possible to play the National Cup and even FA Trophy games elsewhere, if not then withdraw from those competitions. I don't think just crossing our fingers and hoping is going to work this time, we got lucky last winter but even then the fixtures piled up. My hope is that the rain covers aren't fit for purpose and that some can be sourced that actually work, that would be the best scenario but they would need to be acquired as soon as possible. [Post edited 21 Sep 5:06]
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The rain covers are probably fine, in their limited capacity. Since the surface was reported as near-waterlogged in places on Tuesday, putting covers down would merely stop the surface from 'breathing', which seems to be the only way moisture can be removed once the underlying surface is soaked (plus using the moppers, which appeared to be totally overwhelmed yesterday). It's probably a 'Catch-22' situation
Fortunately, it looks like 3 good drying days ahead of Tuesday night [Post edited 21 Sep 7:06]
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 07:55 - Sep 21 with 1453 views | TalkingSutty |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 07:01 - Sep 21 by D_Alien |
The rain covers are probably fine, in their limited capacity. Since the surface was reported as near-waterlogged in places on Tuesday, putting covers down would merely stop the surface from 'breathing', which seems to be the only way moisture can be removed once the underlying surface is soaked (plus using the moppers, which appeared to be totally overwhelmed yesterday). It's probably a 'Catch-22' situation
Fortunately, it looks like 3 good drying days ahead of Tuesday night [Post edited 21 Sep 7:06]
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I didn't go to the game on Tuesday but watching it on You Tube the pitch didn't look bad, maybe it was waterlogged in places and the groundsman thought that laying covers on top of a sodden pitch gave us our best chance of getting the game on. It would be good to hear it from the horses mouth, if the pitch was playable when the covers went down then why was it unplayable when they were lifted up? Once the reason is established the club know what they are dealing with. It sounds like the pitch is compacted and standing water can't drain down through the soil, we had that once when tonnes of sand had been thrown on the pitch. The groundsman must have expected the pitch to be ok because it was left as late as possible to lift the covers to give the game the best chance to be completed. Knowing the limited capacity of the covers would be good also, i know nothing about them but expected that they keep water out, i know that sounds simplistic.
Another myth is that Rochdale is the wettest place in England, it isn't. Cumbria has the highest rainfall. Barrow completed their game yesterday. Hopefully the club will shed some light on things this week and try to come up with alternative plans, look at the worst case scenario just in case it happens. As i said, i'm hoping the problem is to do with the covers, either they weren't applied properly or they aren't fit for purpose. I'm struggling with the notion they were layed on a already waterlogged surface to be honest. A multitide of groundsman have been fighting a losing battle with the pitch for a long time. It's nobody's fault this, it's pitch work that's been inherited by the Ogdens and Simon Gauge etc had enough on their plate to keep the club afloat, their money was needed for other things. The pitch problems have been there for decades. [Post edited 21 Sep 8:27]
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 08:21 - Sep 21 with 1359 views | EllGazzell |
I'd proffer that as much as Jim and the players are doing to get us up the league and (re)attract fans through the gates, these sort of things, as understandable as it was today, are gonna have a fair negative impact on that.
There will be a tipping point in time when the cost of getting the pitch sorted properly is outweighed by the loss of gate receipts (Sat - Tue rearrangements) and the unreliability of watching football at Dale (alternative venues suggested/just can't be sure if it rains a lot), putting people off.
I'm actually surprised that the negative impact of the pitch on our season last was not enough to warrant getting it done close season; it must be the most critical component required to have a functioning football club.
I'm fully aware of the legal 'battle' with the last company to work on it, and the cost of work needing to be done. |  |
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 09:00 - Sep 21 with 1238 views | frenzied |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 04:54 - Sep 21 by TalkingSutty |
I think the club dodged a big bullet yesterday, the referee was correct to postpone the game, he saved the pitch from irreparable damage had he attempted to play the game. In seasons past we've had isolated games that went ahead and the damage to the pitch has been terrible and had a knock on effect. Even with a good pitch and drainage we wouldnt have completed the game, the late kick off would have worked against us, the rain was pretty relentless. So, no damage done in the full scheme of things. It does make you question the decision to compete in the National Cup though, its pressure on the pitch that wasn't needed and adds to fixture congestion.
The Club and ground staff should treat yesterday as a practice run in regards to what to expect over the next five months. There also needs to be a realisation that the pitch covers don't work, they can't do if the pitch was unplayable as soon as they were pulled up. The pitch covers wouldn't have been laid on a already waterlogged pitch, nobody is daft enough to do that. Were the pitch covers laid down correctly? It sounds as though they were from Judd's explanation, so how did the water get underneath and deem the pitch unplayable? The other theory could be that the water is seaping up from underneath the pitch once we have significant rainfall, if that's the case then we have big problems because even covering the pitch isnt going to work.
The number one question that needs answering is how did so much water get under the rain covers and are the covers fit for purpose, do they let water in? We have a media team, a interview with the head groundsman would be good..but please ask the relevant questions. We also need to hear from Andy Duff in regards to what plans the club have going forward, we are due a bad winter and if it arrives it's now obvious that we aren't going to be able to get games on, is there a contingency plan to play some games elsewhere? If there isn't then i think those discussions need to take place. If we can't get games on the consequences for the club will be severe and the reputation of the club now goes before us in that respect. Accrington, Oldham, Halifax have all recently installed a new pitch, could we not see if its possible to play the National Cup and even FA Trophy games elsewhere, if not then withdraw from those competitions. I don't think just crossing our fingers and hoping is going to work this time, we got lucky last winter but even then the fixtures piled up. My hope is that the rain covers aren't fit for purpose and that some can be sourced that actually work, that would be the best scenario but they would need to be acquired as soon as possible. [Post edited 21 Sep 5:06]
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Absolutely spot on.
Even Man Utd’s pitch was struggling yesterday. | | | |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 09:21 - Sep 21 with 1173 views | TalkingSutty |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 09:00 - Sep 21 by frenzied |
Absolutely spot on.
Even Man Utd’s pitch was struggling yesterday. |
It's a difficult conundrum because laying a new pitch and possibly repairing drains is not only costly but time consuming. In the meantime the only viable solution is to have appropriate coverage that stops water from seeping through to the pitch. A cover that is elevated off the surface and pitched slightly so water can run off. Is there such a design and do companies sell them or hire them out long term? I think everybody associated with the club is doing the best they can. [Post edited 21 Sep 11:50]
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| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 09:39 - Sep 21 with 1119 views | wozzrafc |
| TVOS Preview - Rochdale v Southend United on 07:55 - Sep 21 by TalkingSutty |
I didn't go to the game on Tuesday but watching it on You Tube the pitch didn't look bad, maybe it was waterlogged in places and the groundsman thought that laying covers on top of a sodden pitch gave us our best chance of getting the game on. It would be good to hear it from the horses mouth, if the pitch was playable when the covers went down then why was it unplayable when they were lifted up? Once the reason is established the club know what they are dealing with. It sounds like the pitch is compacted and standing water can't drain down through the soil, we had that once when tonnes of sand had been thrown on the pitch. The groundsman must have expected the pitch to be ok because it was left as late as possible to lift the covers to give the game the best chance to be completed. Knowing the limited capacity of the covers would be good also, i know nothing about them but expected that they keep water out, i know that sounds simplistic.
Another myth is that Rochdale is the wettest place in England, it isn't. Cumbria has the highest rainfall. Barrow completed their game yesterday. Hopefully the club will shed some light on things this week and try to come up with alternative plans, look at the worst case scenario just in case it happens. As i said, i'm hoping the problem is to do with the covers, either they weren't applied properly or they aren't fit for purpose. I'm struggling with the notion they were layed on a already waterlogged surface to be honest. A multitide of groundsman have been fighting a losing battle with the pitch for a long time. It's nobody's fault this, it's pitch work that's been inherited by the Ogdens and Simon Gauge etc had enough on their plate to keep the club afloat, their money was needed for other things. The pitch problems have been there for decades. [Post edited 21 Sep 8:27]
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100%
We have had specialists report that the pitch has practically no drainage and will cost 1.5million, anything else is just prolonging the problem.
It’s pointless comparing it to other pitches as they don’t have this issue. Any lower league club losing a couple of million a year would have struggled.
The Ogdens have committed to resolving the issue and inevitably picking up the cost. We are where we are and we have to manage the situation the best we can. With all the will in the world with the amount or rain we had yesterday (40-60mm) and the issues we had there was no way the pitch could have coped covers or no covers. | | | |
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